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Government corruption and intellectual dishonesty

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posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: pexx421

Yes and chanting "class war" immediately alienates 50-60% of any audience.

Of the remainder most are aware that Marxism was developed in the mid-19th century in analysis of long gone politico-economic systems.

Mixed economies have created the world as we know it, that provided you the basis to read Marx and have these thoughts.

Every system has elites. We should be particularly wary of the ones that claim otherwise.




posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:58 AM
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Im talking about personal debt, not national debt. And I understand that you dont grasp motives other than envy, you've made that clear. Let me be clear. I truly envy nothing. I make enough money that alone, i can comfortably support my family of four. I have a gorgeous, large home, that i actually look forward to downsizing from once the kids are gone. I personally own, or have the ability to own pretty much all the things that i could want. I have an electronics hobby, and enjoy very nice high end speakers, trading them in to try new ones when the mood takes me. This year i bought 12 different gaming laptops, all high end, just to personally use and pick which one i preferred, and then resold all the rest. I have a car I enjoy very much, didnt have to pick based upon price, decided which one i wanted from research, and bought it, all bells and whistles. When i want steak, i buy steak, or go to a nice restaurant and get it. Further, when my wife graduates, she will make around what i make, and we will have more disposable income than i really know what to do with. I could truly live just like i am now for the rest of my life, and die perfectly content with what i have.

At the same time, i can also look around me, and recognize the effects on our society of what our current system is doing. I know that if we as a society keep going this way, my children will have a much harder time maintaining the lifestyle that I am providing them now....or they would if I was unable to leave them a home fully paid off, and my various life insurance policies. But even then, they will likely be subject to crime, as the middle class shrinks and the poverty class grows, they will be subject to more random acts of violence, crime, and anomie such as mass shootings, etc. They will be subject to greater authoritarianism by govt and police, reduced freedoms, and greater social discord, most likely with more wars as well, possibly even a world war or civil war.

So, yeah, this is why i oppose the massive accumulation of wealth and power by an oligarchic class. Not due to envy, but due to my perusals of how that situation has played out in history, and my desire or preference to not see my children or peers afflicted with it.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 12:01 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy




It doesn't make much sense.


Peas and Carrots.

Carrots think their peas.

Peas think their carrots.

And they're both getting satued in a frying pan.

It's Food Wars live action.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 12:02 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421

actually, the EU bans all their nations from printing money to finance their way out of crisis, or to go more than 5% debt to gdp ratio, which is why the EU hasnt survived the crash while the US has. Also, the IMF and world bank have pretty strict controls to coerce nations not to print money the way we do.

I just typed the words "eu quantitative easing" into Google and all the results on the first page talk about a new round of quantitative easing in the EU which has no time limit.

An article dated September 13 from CNBC says this:

The shape and size of the European Central Bank’s new bond-buying program caught market participants off guard, with some now predicting it’ll be years until the euro zone is back to anything approaching normality.

Starting in November, the ECB will make 20 billion euros ($21.9 billion) of net asset purchases per month for as long as it takes for the euro zone’s inflation and growth outlooks to return to satisfactory levels.

QE infinity? Economists believe that Europe’s bond buying could run for years


And article from Forbes says the same thing:

Outgoing European Central Bank (ECB) president Mario Draghi has announced it will restart its quantitative easing measures and has cut its bank deposit rate to an all-time low of -0.5% in a bid to stimulate the flagging eurozone economy.

The ECB will resume buying up eurozone government bonds at a rate of €20 billion as from November, “for as long as necessary,” it said. The quantitative easing could encourage those governments to borrow more money to invest in national projects.

European Central Bank Resumes Quantitative Easing In Bid To Boost Ailing Eurozone Economy



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: pexx421


know that if we as a society keep going this way, my children will have a much harder time maintaining the lifestyle that I am providing them now....or they would if I was unable to leave them a home fully paid off, and my various life insurance policies. But even then, they will likely be subject to crime, as the middle class shrinks and the poverty class grows, they will be subject to more random acts of violence, crime, and anomie such as mass shootings, etc.

If your children choose to get a good education, which it seems you certainly can afford, and they put in the effort required to build a respectable career for themselves instead of relying on your inheritance, then they wont struggle at all.

Also your fear about rising crime rates is completely untenable considering that virtually all forms of crime has been declining for decades, whether it be murder, rape, robbery, or shootings. There has been an increase in shootings based on the raw numbers, but there's also been an increase in the population, and if you look at the number of gun deaths per 100,000 people it has been falling for decades. Even this anti-gun article from Vox admits to this fact and provide a nice chart to go with it:


The good news is that firearm homicides, like all homicides and crime, have declined over the past two decades.

There’s still a lot of debate among criminal justice experts about why this crime drop is occurring. Some of the most credible ideas include mass incarceration, more and better policing, and reduced lead exposure from gasoline.

America’s unique gun violence problem, explained in 16 maps and charts


I would also suggesting taking a look at this thread: A Wonderful World

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

Now completely putting politics to the side, if you think the world is becoming a worse place to live every day because you see a lot of wars and global conflict on the news every day, you see people raping and killing each other and it looks like everything is going to hell... well you would be wrong because the world is now more peaceful than any other time in recorded history, whether you measure by war related deaths, murder rates, frequency of terror attacks, all of those things have been declining for a long time.

Don't let yourself be caught in this artificially constructed world view imposed on you by consistently negative MSM reports, they make their money from sensationalism and hysteria. We live in a very wonderful and beautiful world full of amazing things, with deep secrets we have yet to uncover. Sure there's a lot of hate and pain but that is what life is... it's imperfect, it hurts us deeply at times, but through that pain we can truly appreciate the good things in life. There is no such thing as utopia.


edit on 24/11/2019 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

edit on 24/11/2019 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 12:32 PM
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After reading the thread and all the talk about bigger/smaller govt and how smaller Govt leads to more power of corporations and making it bigger we can force it to become more ethical by hell I can't understand how making a corrupt entity larger is going to make it more ethical when all it does is create more of a police state removing our freedoms. I thought this would be relevant.

The US is a Corporation already

I will almost end with this priceless quote "Those that sacrifice Liberty for Safety deserve neither."

The more liberty you sacrifice the less safe you become, I beg for anyone to explain how sacrificing your freedom will make you safe.




posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: CrazyFox

Changing the current system shouldn’t be confused with making it bigger and more powerful, what it really is doing is focusing its aims more precisely in a way to help us, the common people. Otherwise we have what we have now. Where our liberty and our freedoms are sold to the highest bidder.

Is it ok to let politicians sell our liberty for their own benefit in the naive hope it’ll benefit everyone else?



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 12:46 PM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: pexx421


know that if we as a society keep going this way, my children will have a much harder time maintaining the lifestyle that I am providing them now....or they would if I was unable to leave them a home fully paid off, and my various life insurance policies. But even then, they will likely be subject to crime, as the middle class shrinks and the poverty class grows, they will be subject to more random acts of violence, crime, and anomie such as mass shootings, etc.

If your children choose to get a good education, which it seems you certainly can afford, and they put in the effort required to build a respectable career for themselves instead of relying on your inheritance, then they wont struggle at all.

Also your fear about rising crime rates is completely untenable considering that virtually all forms of crime has been declining for decades, whether it be murder, rape, robbery, or shootings. There has been an increase in shootings based on the raw numbers, but there's also been an increase in the population, and if you look at the number of gun deaths per 100,000 people it has been falling for decades. Even this anti-gun article from Vox admits to this fact and provide a nice chart to go with it:


The good news is that firearm homicides, like all homicides and crime, have declined over the past two decades.

There’s still a lot of debate among criminal justice experts about why this crime drop is occurring. Some of the most credible ideas include mass incarceration, more and better policing, and reduced lead exposure from gasoline.

America’s unique gun violence problem, explained in 16 maps and charts


I would also suggesting taking a look at this thread: A Wonderful World

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

Now completely putting politics to the side, if you think the world is becoming a worse place to live every day because you see a lot of wars and global conflict on the news every day, you see people raping and killing each other and it looks like everything is going to hell... well you would be wrong because the world is now more peaceful than any other time in recorded history, whether you measure by war related deaths, murder rates, frequency of terror attacks, all of those things have been declining for a long time.

Don't let yourself be caught in this artificially constructed world view imposed on you by consistently negative MSM reports, they make their money from sensationalism and hysteria. We live in a very wonderful and beautiful world full of amazing things, with deep secrets we have yet to uncover. Sure there's a lot of hate and pain but that is what life is... it's imperfect, it hurts us deeply at times, but through that pain we can truly appreciate the good things in life. There is no such thing as utopia.



And those are interesting data. To that though I would respond that their mechanisms of control have advanced. Largely the only violence going on in the world right now war wise is us sanctioned violence. Yes, we’ve largely banned any other nations from waging conventional war other than us and our affiliates. The same thing at home. We have the largest prison population in us history, and I believe in the world. And police violence is at Extreme levels as well, I believe.

The chaos is being more internalized and hence we have terrorist attacks or mass shootings, along with levels of depression and addiction so high that they have surpassed auto accidents as a leading cause of death and skewed life expectancy statistics with suicide and addiction.

If our society is doing so well, why is there so much social chaos and discord? I believe you are missing part of the picture.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: CrazyFox

Changing the current system shouldn’t be confused with making it bigger and more powerful, what it really is doing is focusing its aims more precisely in a way to help us, the common people. Otherwise we have what we have now. Where our liberty and our freedoms are sold to the highest bidder.

Is it ok to let politicians sell our liberty for their own benefit in the naive hope it’ll benefit everyone else?

Agreed. I think we can all agree that corporations and money do not belong in politics. That those representing big business rather than their constituents should be prosecuted. That corporations and the wealthy elite should be held to the same legal standards as individuals, with property confiscated and jail time as a result of fraud and criminal activity.

Simplify the tax code, fix the legal system, root out corruption, bust down corporate influence, invest as much in figuring out the truth as they invest in ways of deceiving the public.

Do these things and I don’t care what we decide as people as far as corporate freedom and taxes, or private vs socialized business. So long as it’s an educated populations will and vote, not manipulated, manufactured consent.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: DBCowboy

Cats and dogs, living together

Mass hysteria!


"Tell him about the Twinkie." Hahahahaha

Agree with the OP 100% ...We also have the Political Industrial Complex these days (P.I.C. around for some time now) to be wary of.

ETA - Just saw this was 5 pages in, so I am probably just repeating now

edit on 24-11-2019 by ronjer because: Epiphany



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: pexx421


along with levels of depression and addiction so high that they have surpassed auto accidents as a leading cause of death and skewed life expectancy statistics with suicide and addiction.

Perhaps it's because they have been programmed to have the exact mentality you've demonstrated here, they think everything is going to hell and they are never told about all the good things that are happening. I would go so far as to say they get a weird type of satisfaction from it because if they're depressed it must somehow prove that their perspective of the word is correct, because how could things possibly get better when there's so much corruption and the leader of the U.S. is the spawn of Satan. Their sad and hopeless outlook on reality must be justified, and the only way to make things better is to tear down the system which has produced the most powerful nation on Earth.


If our society is doing so well, why is there so much social chaos and discord?

Because the left is ridiculously triggered by the Trumpster, and the reasons I stated in the last paragraph.
edit on 24/11/2019 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

“The way I think” was actively suppressed for 75 years. As our functional economy has been. And it doesn’t cause me hopelessness or frustration because my life is pretty damn amazing. Sorry, but I don’t fit into your paradigm or narrative. And I doubt anyone else does either. You have a view, fostered by your ideology, that’s is flawed. It’s very obviously flawed because it leads you to conclusions and judgment of your peers here that are obviously far off from reality, and leaves you completely unable to understand the thought processes of people who think differently than you. You are living in a fabricated dream world, where everything is going well and yet people just don’t seem to be able to enjoy their lives. If this seems illogical, that’s because it is. And yet there’s no place in your ideology to question such a contradiction.

Because you’ve bought into a fabricated narrative. Where the business owners, oligarchs, and the wealthy elite are “heroes” and people wanting a minimum, stable existence in exchange for spending the vast majority of their life at a job are “lazy and entitled”. Where right wing fascist coups of democratic governments are “great strides for democracy” and where people fighting for their rights and freedoms in left leaning nations against corporate predations are “commie dictators”.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 01:52 PM
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I guess you did not read my link because if you did you would realize that since the US is already a corporation that by default politics are created by corporations. here it is again a reply to: pexx421

I too wish that all parties (especially the two that are part of the corporate party that are our forced choices) are destroyed and stopped from ever forming any again. To fix this disgustingly corrupt system it has to be obliterated no other option. We already had system that worked for us we just need to go back to using it instead of this sh1tshow I have been forced to endure my entire life.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: CrazyFox

Changing the current system shouldn’t be confused with making it bigger and more powerful, what it really is doing is focusing its aims more precisely in a way to help us, the common people. Otherwise we have what we have now. Where our liberty and our freedoms are sold to the highest bidder.

Is it ok to let politicians sell our liberty for their own benefit in the naive hope it’ll benefit everyone else?

Agreed. I think we can all agree that corporations and money do not belong in politics. That those representing big business rather than their constituents should be prosecuted. That corporations and the wealthy elite should be held to the same legal standards as individuals, with property confiscated and jail time as a result of fraud and criminal activity.

Simplify the tax code, fix the legal system, root out corruption, bust down corporate influence, invest as much in figuring out the truth as they invest in ways of deceiving the public.

Do these things and I don’t care what we decide as people as far as corporate freedom and taxes, or private vs socialized business. So long as it’s an educated populations will and vote, not manipulated, manufactured consent.


Why did you leave unions out of that ?

Getting the money out of politics ?

That also means getting rid of social security, and medicaid,medicare and every other public freebie.

Until yall start including THAT ?

All I see is bull crap being shoveled.
edit on 24-11-2019 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 02:02 PM
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originally posted by: CrazyFox
I guess you did not read my link because if you did you would realize that since the US is already a corporation that by default politics are created by corporations. here it is again a reply to: pexx421

I too wish that all parties (especially the two that are part of the corporate party that are our forced choices) are destroyed and stopped from ever forming any again. To fix this disgustingly corrupt system it has to be obliterated no other option. We already had system that worked for us we just need to go back to using it instead of this sh1tshow I have been forced to endure my entire life.





No, crazyfox I agree completely. And I recognize that the solution is not to destroy the govt, but to take control of it back. Government is the people making decisions for themselves. Or it’s supposed to be. Our current system is letting corporations decide who we can chose to make those decisions. The solution is not taking away our ability to make decisions at all via destroying govt, it’s forcing corporate power out and putting ourselves back in.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: CrazyFox

Changing the current system shouldn’t be confused with making it bigger and more powerful, what it really is doing is focusing its aims more precisely in a way to help us, the common people. Otherwise we have what we have now. Where our liberty and our freedoms are sold to the highest bidder.

Is it ok to let politicians sell our liberty for their own benefit in the naive hope it’ll benefit everyone else?

Agreed. I think we can all agree that corporations and money do not belong in politics. That those representing big business rather than their constituents should be prosecuted. That corporations and the wealthy elite should be held to the same legal standards as individuals, with property confiscated and jail time as a result of fraud and criminal activity.

Simplify the tax code, fix the legal system, root out corruption, bust down corporate influence, invest as much in figuring out the truth as they invest in ways of deceiving the public.

Do these things and I don’t care what we decide as people as far as corporate freedom and taxes, or private vs socialized business. So long as it’s an educated populations will and vote, not manipulated, manufactured consent.


Why did you leave unions out of that ?

Getting the money out of politics ?

That also means getting rid of social security, and medicaid,medicare and every other public freebie.

Until yall start including THAT ?

All I see is bull crap being shoveled.


You’re incorrect. It doesn’t mean taking money and it’s distribution for social programs away. It means taking away from govt all ability of people to profit from govt. Social security and socially funded medical care is OUR money that we paid into it. It’s using govt as a single payer to negotiate better deals through bargaining power, similar to a wholesale club. Your juvenile interpretation of taxation being theft leaves us with inefficient money leveraging and society in chaos. Until y’all stop attacking social programs in isolation, and start attacking subsidies and monopolies equally, all I see is bull sht.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

And unions?? Really? 6% of the working population?? When unions were strongest was when our nation was doing its best.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

So your not serious about getting the MONEY out of politics.

I see.




Social security and socially funded medical care is OUR money that we paid into it.


6% of it is.

Most of it's employers.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: underwerks

The problem is that "helping" all too often means removing choice, and removing choice is really removing liberty.

Government doesn't help me fish. Rather, government dictates what fish I might have, how much, when and even if I need the fish. None of that translates to help, but only to control. At the end of the day, I still don't know a thing about getting my own fish.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 02:30 PM
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I am not stating we have to destroy the govt, I am stating that our current system of govt has to be destroyed and replaced by the one that worked. That would include the dismantling of DC and annexing it to the states surrounding it. Un-incorporating our govt and instead reinstate the governing style of before the civil war. FTR I am not encouraging the re-institution of slavery here as I feel currently almost all of us are slaves currently with the authoritarian system of control.
In order to rebuke the power of the corporations The Corporate United States of America has to be destroyed.

a reply to: pexx421



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