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Government corruption and intellectual dishonesty

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posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 10:36 AM
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You dont need to look far to see the fallacy of the narrative most of you cling to. The idea you all have of the "liberal media". The media is nothing like liberal. You all labor under the idea that our society is dominated by liberal ideology, when in fact the opposite is true. One defining trait of the liberals is that they as a group are completely unable to coordinate or organize effectively. Conservatism is largely a monolithic, unified group, able to effectively invest billions towards singular ends of control, be it owning all the media, funding think tanks, investing hundreds of millions into analytics groups to reprogram folks, simultaneously coordinate wars on all nations who adopt policies to support their citizens rather than generate corporate profit, etc. The liberals cant even prevent the complete destruction of their peers through our justice system or the destruction of labor representation. They constantly bicker between themselves, and cant organize a real party or candidate. If the media was truly progressive or liberal they would be behind sanders or some other truly progressive or liberal candidate 100%. But what do we see? We see them constantly attacking the real liberal candidates and promoting those who would continue to support oligarchy and the destruction of real working class policies.

You talk about the "liberal college" environment. Colleges completely blacklisted marxism and socialism in their curriculum for 75 years. Sure, they began things like "black history" or lgbtq studies, etc, things that wouldnt compete with the narrative supporting oligarchy and predatory capitalism, but completely banned or rewrote the history of US socialism, or our wars on those ideologies around the world. The last 5 years may be different, but for 75 years our schools rarely, if ever, talked about economic history, the real origins of socialism or marxism, the class wars dominating the 1800's and 1900's, the actions our governments really undertook in south america, etc.

The narrative is fabricated, and counter to reality. And this is also very clearly visible to me when discussions about soros dont involve the koch brothers, or all the society dominating behemoths on both sides. Because its very clear, when you step back, that while one side may blame soros, and the other may portray the kochs, its the megalithic oligarchs on both sides that are really the sum and total of the problem, not just the ones that supposedly cling to one ideology or the other.




posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: underwerks


The solution is to extract ourselves from the entire system that’s handed to us. Stop playing their game. Stop allowing their rules to dictate the direction our country goes. The power lies in us, not the choices the corrupt people give to us.


How do you plan on implementing that solution?

If only we all could survive after quitting our jobs and stop paying taxes!



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 10:41 AM
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originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: DBCowboy


So support for a limited, smaller government, more individual freedom and rights would be the antithesis for the oligarchs that you decry.


What you’re overlooking again is that making the government smaller like you want doesn’t lead to more freedom for the individual. It leads to more corporate interests buying the ability to dictate what freedoms we have.


Corporations can only sell.
If we "buy" what they're selling, then the onus is on us.

By supporting these political parties (Libertarianism, Republicans, etc) that claim to be working for small government all you’re doing is handing that power to a different group of corrupt people.

Supporting political parties is the problem. As long as all of us continue to put our faith in these groups that have already been bought and sold we’re just running on the hamster wheel. It looks like we’re going somewhere, but we never leave the cage.

The solution is to extract ourselves from the entire system that’s handed to us. Stop playing their game. Stop allowing their rules to dictate the direction our country goes. The power lies in us, not the choices the corrupt people give to us.


I've taken great pains to avoid using "party" labels.

Corruption exists within our government regardless of party affiliation.

Changing parties, changing systems without acknowledging and addressing the inherent corruption within won't change anything and will probably make things even worse.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
Localization is an answer over centralization. The asshats running places like Chicago and San Fran into the ground are at least only hurting those places and not all of us. Those are local issues and disasters.

Venezuela with its central control system is a state level disaster.

Peaople in Chicago and San Fran can have some hope of moving to another state at least. Venezuelans are screwed if they can't immigrate out.


This post clearly demonstrates my description of the problems with controlled narratives and insufficient historical education. Is venezuelas problem its central control system a disaster? Is their attempted system any different than, say, holland or norway? Or would holland and norway be in a similar situation if we stole all their funds, pushed multiple attempted coups against them, assassinated their activists, banned them from world markets, blockaded their nation, etc?



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 10:46 AM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: DBCowboy

Because you refuse to see the scope of the whole problem. When you take power away from the government it doesn’t just vanish and the government has less power. That “power” is taken up by corporations and the richest Americans, who are even less accountable than the government.

Indeed, businesses do better with less regulations and less taxes, meaning private citizens become more powerful. The part where you're wrong is seeing that as a bad thing, because as evidenced by the U.S. economy under Trump, less regulations and less taxes actually help it thrive, and that benefits everyone in the private sector. Hating rich people is like hating the idea of success or the chance at success, it's a selfish view of the world. Instead of realizing that more rich people means more people are succeeding and there's a higher chance you'll also get rich, it's perceived as a bad thing by those who are not rich because they don't believe they'll ever be rich, so the only option they see is to force wealth redistribution.


originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
What taxes really do is take spending power from individuals and businesses and give it to the government. Excessive socialism always leads to a nanny state and it truly boggles my mind that so many people believe such a huge bloated government could spend money more effectively than the private sector. It really doesn't take much analysis to understand why over-taxing and over-regulating an economy can harm it and destroy a nation in the long run.


What you’re missing is that we aren’t at a point in American society where easing rules and regulations on the 1% creates more rich people, we’re at a point where the wealth we do have is being funneled by the slashing of regulations to the ones who already exist.

And this system isn’t sustainable. Up to a certain point you’re right. But that all changes when the government has been sold out to the point it has in 2019.

I don’t see the economy as doing good under Trump. The only thing that’s doing good is the stock market, and anyone who knows anything about economics knows that isn’t an indication of anything but the stock market. Buying power is the lowest it’s ever been, most people can’t afford a $1000 emergency, and the wealth gap between the poorest and the richest is expanding exponentially.

None of this is sustainable. The trickle down theory that helping the rich become richer at the expense of the middle class somehow helps the middle class is fiction. It’s ironic that the same small government people who claim everyone is too corrupt to run a functional government also somehow believe in the benevolence of people who run large corporations.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 10:47 AM
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a reply to: pexx421


Colleges completely blacklisted marxism and socialism in their curriculum for 75 years.




posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 10:48 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: DBCowboy


So support for a limited, smaller government, more individual freedom and rights would be the antithesis for the oligarchs that you decry.


What you’re overlooking again is that making the government smaller like you want doesn’t lead to more freedom for the individual. It leads to more corporate interests buying the ability to dictate what freedoms we have.


Corporations can only sell.
If we "buy" what they're selling, then the onus is on us.

By supporting these political parties (Libertarianism, Republicans, etc) that claim to be working for small government all you’re doing is handing that power to a different group of corrupt people.

Supporting political parties is the problem. As long as all of us continue to put our faith in these groups that have already been bought and sold we’re just running on the hamster wheel. It looks like we’re going somewhere, but we never leave the cage.

The solution is to extract ourselves from the entire system that’s handed to us. Stop playing their game. Stop allowing their rules to dictate the direction our country goes. The power lies in us, not the choices the corrupt people give to us.


I've taken great pains to avoid using "party" labels.

Corruption exists within our government regardless of party affiliation.

Changing parties, changing systems without acknowledging and addressing the inherent corruption within won't change anything and will probably make things even worse.


Its not true that corporations can only sell. Corporations can buy legislation and manipulate govt. Oligarchs can sabotage competition, can forcefully manipulate wages, can create sweatshop banana republic style economies and slave labor, enforced with mercenaries or even govt aid. They did it here in the 1800's and early 1900's and they currently do it all over latin america, the middle east, africa, china, etc. Yes, those very same corporations that many of us work for here, and buy product from here, commit crimes against humanity, assassinations, child labor, slavery, sweat shop exploitation, all over the world today.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 10:52 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy


Corporations can only sell. If we "buy" what they're selling, then the onus is on us.


That’s false. In today’s day and age they can also buy the consumers ability to choose to buy or not.
See insurance companies. Big pharma. Big food.

That’s why they donate so much to politicians. That’s why with our current laws they’re even a bigger threat than government.

The people who buy our government have more control over us than the government by itself ever had.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: underwerks


What you’re overlooking again is that making the government smaller like you want doesn’t lead to more freedom for the individual. It leads to more corporate interests buying the ability to dictate what freedoms we have.


Excellent observation, but not inevitable: corporations are literally creations of government!!!

Corporations are chartered, enabled, and empowered by government. Corporations are granted their privileges and entitlements by government.

Restricting and reigning in out of control corporations would necessarily be part of restricting and reigning in government.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Really great thread, DBC. I'm enjoying reading.

And lots of thoughtful replies and ideas in here. Good job everyone!!!



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: Boadicea

If corps are empowered by giv. then shrinking the power of the gov shrinks the power of the corps too. Good observatioon.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: underwerks

a reply to: pexx421

What you're missing is that corporations can only influence and manipulate corrupt politicians.

Regardless of the system, the root problem is corrupt politicians that can be bought like canned tuna in a corner market.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: underwerks


The solution is to extract ourselves from the entire system that’s handed to us. Stop playing their game. Stop allowing their rules to dictate the direction our country goes. The power lies in us, not the choices the corrupt people give to us.


How do you plan on implementing that solution?

If only we all could survive after quitting our jobs and stop paying taxes!


Stop playing into it. Stop supporting these political parties. If it’s something you really care about you’re going to have to make sacrifices. Protest. Find like minded people and work to make these politicians lives hell every moment you have. Make them never forget who they work for.

If you’re looking for an easy solution, there isn’t one. It’s going to take sacrifice on everyone’s part. Time, money, possibly temporary freedom. If you (I’m saying “you”in the general sense, not you particularly) aren’t ready to sacrifice any of that then nothing will change. That’s the truth. People are going to have to give up being comfortable for a little while if they want to see actual change for the better.

Sadly, I don’t think that’s something most people are prepared to do. Which in the end doesn’t really matter, because change is coming regardless of what everyone wants. Either we work together to change things for the better now, or we allow the same corrupt people to continue running things. Then one day in the near future we’ll all wake up in a world none of us wanted. And we won’t have any choice about the change we’ll be forced to deal with.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:10 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

a reply to: pexx421

What you're missing is that corporations can only influence and manipulate corrupt politicians.

Regardless of the system, the root problem is corrupt politicians that can be bought like canned tuna in a corner market.


And how do we root out corrupt politicians?

By making the system so hostile to them that they can’t function as corrupt politicians. That starts with us. We are the real masters of this country, not the corrupt people who decide what our laws are.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:14 AM
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originally posted by: underwerks

I don’t see the economy as doing good under Trump. The only thing that’s doing good is the stock market, and anyone who knows anything about economics knows that isn’t an indication of anything but the stock market. Buying power is the lowest it’s ever been, most people can’t afford a $1000 emergency, and the wealth gap between the poorest and the richest is expanding exponentially.

Actually the wealth gap isn't larger, although it may appear that way. The percentage of people living in poverty in the U.S. has remained the same since about the 70's and the average household income has actually risen even accounting for inflation. On top of that average income of the top 1% has risen by the same factor as the bottom 99% over the last 100 years.

What has really happened is that an exponential number of people have become richer since the 80's and on paper that makes it appear as if income inequality has risen, when in reality all that happened was many people got wealthier due to the dotcom era among other things. The primary reason people are finding it harder to get by now is because there are a many more expenses in this modern world and it's harder to get a job because there are more people competing for positions along with more automation.

I've made several threads demonstrating how economic freedom is directly correlated to quality of life and economic output. My most recent thread titled The Supremacy of Westernized Asian Nations demonstrates that fact more clearly than perhaps any other thread I've written on this subject. The less free a nation is the worse off they tend to be, because believe it or not the government cannot solve all our problems or produce a Utopia, and the harder they try the more likely they are to bring everything crashing down so everyone suffers the harsh results.

EDIT: also the U.S. is doing far better than most other nations right now, just take a look around at how many nations are currently panicking about their economy. I don't think the economy here in Australia has ever been in a worse state, and that tells you a lot because historically we've been able to move through global depressions without feeling it very much. However even our government has started to realize there is a serious problem in the last few months, and it's the same in several other developed nations around the world. The U.S. however has managed to thwart this trend by not embracing overzealous social spending.
edit on 24/11/2019 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:29 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

there are like 1000 articles and graphs that disagree with you on google. Further, while income increases between the top and bottom may be similar, wealth increases are vastly different. And whats really suffering here is the middle class. And while their income may appear to have gone up, as you state, even accounting for inflation, that inflation does not include housing, education, or healthcare, even though they are part of "inflation", and they have vastly risen. As, strangely, has debt, which is a huge burden on purchasing power.

And yes, the US is doing ok compared to other nations, because they retain their ability to print their way out of a crisis, which most other nations have forfeit. Add to that we still hold on to the reserve currency status, though not for long. What you see as us doing well, is in reality the oligarchs pulling out all the stops to keep our economy going long enough to extract all they possibly can before it explodes. Which it will.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:43 AM
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originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

there are like 1000 articles and graphs that disagree with you on google.

Then provide some stats which can be analyzed.


Further, while income increases between the top and bottom may be similar, wealth increases are vastly different.

Well if you earn more you tend to accumulate wealth more quickly, once again I don't see precisely why this is a bad thing unless you were viewing it through a lens of envy.


And while their income may appear to have gone up, as you state, even accounting for inflation, that inflation does not include housing, education, or healthcare, even though they are part of "inflation", and they have vastly risen. As, strangely, has debt, which is a huge burden on purchasing power.

The chart I provided accounts for multiple different types of inflation based on different Consumer Price Index measurements. And there's nothing strange at all about the rise of inflation following the rise of debt, because they are intricately linked, as demonstrated in the chart at the bottom of this post.


And yes, the US is doing ok compared to other nations, because they retain their ability to print their way out of a crisis, which most other nations have forfeit.

Nearly all nations have a central bank through which they can create new money via quantitative easing (trading of bonds), and since that money is created based on debt it increased the national debt. The more a government spends the more it needs to borrow and that causes inflation, which is Why Increased Socialism Leads to Increased Prices.


edit on 24/11/2019 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:44 AM
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And lets be clear. You dont live in the US. While they may say "poverty levels" they really arent quantifying what that means. At least 50% of americans live in what i would consider "poverty levels". They describe it as an income of 26k for four people. Yes, that IS indeed poverty, thats one person working a $13 an hour job, supporting a family of four. But does that encompass poverty? Id say poverty goes up quite a bit higher than that. 50% of americans make $18 an hour or less. Id say supporting a family of 4 on 36k is still poverty. thats about 2700 a month take home. Now, your average 1 bedroom apartment costs about $900/month in the us. Thats 1 bedroom. 2 bedrooms, assuming all 4 kids can share a room, is about $1500. Thats more than half your money there. Then theres transportation.....we dont have real transit for the vast majority of the country. Insurance is crazy, and most jobs at that range dont offer it. If they do, its $600 a month, thats what i pay for my family of four. Keeping in mind i make a very good wage, so not much burden to me. But that leaves that other guy at $600 left for auto, insurance, food, utilities, clothes, etc. If your job doesnt offer it, as most jobs in that range dont, its $1800 a month for that families insurance.

thats over half of working class americans. Yes, if you dont have a family of four, and its just you, that $2700 can stretch a little further, but its by no means financial security. Its balancing which bills you will pay, its choosing not to go to the doctor because you cant afford it. Its often eating cheap garbage often. Its praying you dont get into an accident because you wont be able to afford fixing your car, and that means you wont be able to go to work and will lose your job.

AND we can look at those about to retire. How has the system worked for them? 40% of retiring age people have no 401k or other retirement saved up. Guess who will be working till the day they die? The next 10% have less than 10k. Another 20% have 50k saved up.....one years salary.....wont last long. Another 10% have 100k saved up. And 20% have 199k or above. Now, any financial advisor will tell you that you need 1 million or more to safely retire...assuming no crash comes and wipes out half of it, as it did in 08 for most people. And thats a very small group of people now that have enough to retire.

The system is not working



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

there are like 1000 articles and graphs that disagree with you on google.

Then provide some stats which can be analyzed.


Further, while income increases between the top and bottom may be similar, wealth increases are vastly different.

Well if you earn more you tend to accumulate wealth more quickly, once again I don't see precisely why this is a bad thing unless you were viewing it through a lens of envy.


And while their income may appear to have gone up, as you state, even accounting for inflation, that inflation does not include housing, education, or healthcare, even though they are part of "inflation", and they have vastly risen. As, strangely, has debt, which is a huge burden on purchasing power.

The chart I provided accounts for multiple different types of inflation based on different Consumer Price Index measurements. And there's nothing strange at all about the rise of inflation following the rise of debt, because they are intricately linked, as demonstrated in the chart at the bottom of this post.


And yes, the US is doing ok compared to other nations, because they retain their ability to print their way out of a crisis, which most other nations have forfeit.

Nearly all nations have a central bank through which they can create new money via quantitative easing (trading of bonds), and since that money is created based on debt it increased the national debt.



actually, the EU bans all their nations from printing money to finance their way out of crisis, or to go more than 5% debt to gdp ratio, which is why the EU hasnt survived the crash while the US has. Also, the IMF and world bank have pretty strict controls to coerce nations not to print money the way we do.



posted on Nov, 24 2019 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: pexx421

That doesn't matter. The point is that their system failed catastrophically, they are all trapped by it, and there is no escape.

Those other places you mention live under the same threat of collapse. Once upon a time, Venezuela's strong system was riding high like their's.



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