Meanwhile in the real world...

originally posted by: chr0naut
We don't have a transcript, we have a memorandum of the call, which includes a "Caution" clause in its footer explaining that it is not a verbatim transcript.

As do all of them. This is all you get from these calls. They are not recorded. They are transcribed in real time by multiple people, who then get together, compare notes, make minor edits, and save it permanently.

We have Lt Col Alexander Vindman who was a first hand witness, telling Congress that Trump made "inappropriate" political demands of the Ukrainian President.

The guy who also said that the released transcript was materially complete and accurate?

The guy who said that he's never spoken to the President, and never heard him say or do anything wrong or direct anyone else to do anything wrong.

Yeah, the guy who lied when he said he didn't know who the whistle-leaker is?

There were others, too.

Yep, all doing the same thing as Vindman. Providing opinions that they didn't think Trumps policies are 'appropriate'.

The President sets foreign policy. Career Diplomats two choices are, implement the Presidents Foreign Policy (yes, even if it is different from the prior President, or prior 20 Presidents)... or quit.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: Krakatoa

Thats a whole load of subjective issues. Maybe leave out the "would" and the "interpretation" and the "swaying" and we might come to a conclusion.

But not like this. A memorandum is not a verbatim transcript and in this special case it certainly is really not.

It is the closest we will ever get to accuracy on the call since these (on the U.S. end) are not knowingly recorded. Not since the Nixon fiasco has presidential calls been secretly recorded by presidents. Now, whether the NSA has a call recording, we will NEVER find out, regardless of who was in office. Or would you prefer the opinion of one person on the meaning of the call? One person with personal biases and an axe to grind?

So, whining and complaining that it's just a "memorandum" is merely a case of biased hatred for the man the won the presidential election and was legally elected president. I didn't vote for him, but he was legally elected. So, I will use facts and not my "feelz" on his performance in office and how it affects me personally. So far, it has been a positive effect. I don;t care if he is a loudmouth with no manners. Seems the voters wanted that type in office since they were sick of the career politicians and their approach which has made the last 13 years a crapshoot for us here.


You don''t like it, to be blunt, too bad. If you were in the U.S. and a citizen you could do something about it by voting int he next election. But, as for foreign opinions, those are worth as much as a polished turn IMO.

I would expect you to feel the same regarding my opinion on your countries internal issues.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: ChefFox

No, they're not threatening anything... they're just not interested this time. Budget? Budget? Hey, we've got important things, like badger some washed-up ex-diplomat about how being fired hurt their feelings, to do! Don't bother us about a budget!

Yeah, this has me pretty riled up. How much of this nonsense are we going to take before people actually do something about it?

TheRedneck

I think most of us are highly irritated, but what do we do?

originally posted by: chr0naut
Please explain why it would be it wrong to defer a revision to the budget, in a time of economic stability?

Ahem...

Are you unaware of the ridiculous nature of the 'continuing resolution' insanity that has ruled our annual budget since god knows when?

This isn't about deferring some 'revision'... this is about the oh-so-much-feared 'government shutdown' that we all know and love so much.

originally posted by: ChefFox
a reply to: TheRedneck

So democrats arent liking what they are getting from the impeachment inquiry and are now threatening a gov shutdown? are they serious?

Yep their fallback position is extortion after trying to impeach a sitting president for supposedly doing so.

Yup...these Democrats have gotten so caught up in the lime light and stealing Hollywood's glamour looks like they forgot to do there actual jobs...

Nice catch perse Redneck

a reply to: ManFromEurope

No, I didn't just read it on a "right-wing site." I read the exact description from the US government as to how phone calls are recorded. Had someone on the call testified that there was an error, perhaps you would have a case; so far no one has. The transcript is the official record of the call.

I explained all this to another poster. That's why I'm done with chr0naut... I am not about to sit here and type the exact same explanation over and over every time someone decides to play word games. As a tutor, my time is worth $20 per hour and I haven't seen a check yet for individually tutoring people one by one because they're too lazy to research their talking points,

You can call it a "temper tantrum" all you want; don't make it so. It's rather simple logic: you want my services beyond what I am willing to sample out for free, you pay for them.

Oh, and I should mention, US dollars only. I don't take Euros.

TheRedneck

a reply to: network dude

I think most of us are highly irritated, but what do we do?

Raise a stink. Call out the politicians. Vote the fools out of office. Write a letter, send an email, heck, write a letter to the editor and send it to the local paper. Let people known what these so-called leaders are doing.

That's what got me. No one cared because no one had heard of it. When Trump was involved, every news outlet, every TV channel, and every newspaper was talking about the horrors of the government shutdown. Let it fall squarely on Pelosi's neck, and no one says a word.

We still have freedom of speech. Use it.

TheRedneck

Yes, it is quit a joke, strange though I'm not laughing. This morons running our Government, for the past 3 years, have been hell bent on disposing of what should be our "Beloved Chief Executive, The President of The U.S.A.". Instead of taking care of what is at hand for the good of the U.S.A. and it' people's. To much in fighting, bull carp, more than half of them are low life's, crook's at best.

When you see there were over 500 hits on the government computer system, of people looking at CHILD PORN, on government servers., we have a problem. This is perfect cross section of, those who are in control of our government. This is not made up, use the government server and they can't bust you at home, look it up. And the F.B.I. or who ever is looking for these perverts, can't spot it in their own house. Well at least J.Edgar Hoover, was just a gay, blackmailer and not a Pedophile, I hope at least

There are a lot of Good Agents in the F.B.I., but the question is when are they going to grow some Balls and redeem their selves.

I made the Mistake of going into the F.B.I. Lounge one time, it was full of a bunch of Fairy nice fellows. And to believe when I was a little kid, playing with my little Blue motorcycle Cop and how that was all I wanted to grow up and be, that blue motorcycle cop. After that when I was older OH! F.B.I. the good guys, till when I was innocent kid stopped and molested by two pervert cops in a squad car. Latter when I was 16, the one would come into the gas station I worked at, pull out his pistol, shoot a 55 gallon steel drum in back room, then say "Oscar that's You". I had already decided, at that point, I want to grow up and join the Hell's Angle's. The whole World is a _________Lie. Read the Report, done on New York Cops back in the 70s after Serpico, there are good ones but ,more bad than good. Fact.

We need to reinstate the True desire of our fore Fathers in the original Constitution of the United States of America, and the the original Bill of Right's, Common Law. Get rid of the skum and bullcrap.

Frank comparison of LEFT (Liberals) vs RIGHT (Conservatives) Behavior and Civility.

twitter.com...

Nice

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

CBS is Fake News?

Hmmm...

TheRedneck

CBS is propagandist. FoxNews is propagandist. The entire MSM is propagandist and partisan.

Today's news services have assumed that their consumers are idiots and therefore have to explain everything in very simplistic terms. Then little by little, 'commentary' overtook 'news' until now when there are three seconds of facts interspersed with 24x7 live commentary by photogenic talking heads and panels of carefully selected, paid, 'experts'.

Real news just reports truth without embellishment. There isn't much of that around these days.

We all know it.

Fox to some extant, sure. But, did they bury the Epstein story and witnesses?

Fighting over which of the main companies are propagandists doesn't solve the issue of propaganda actually occurring.

I find it funny that the same people that called out ABC et al for burying/helping to bury the Epstein story, will claim that they are still legitimate sources of information regarding impeachment. Or anything Trump for that matter. Remember, they got pretty quiet about the Trump on Epstien's plane story (especially when the plane in question was not in fact the "lolita express") because they knew it would expose certain other big names.

The reality is we probably need to outlaw political parties and get rid of both wastes of money - the governor of each state should be more than capable of representing his states basic interests at the federal level and the mayors and county heads below him.

Epstein is probably in protective custody as a witness, which is how Barr saw tapes of his cell and can conform no one went in or out.

originally posted by: Wardaddy454

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: chr0naut

CBS is Fake News?

Hmmm...

TheRedneck

CBS is propagandist. FoxNews is propagandist. The entire MSM is propagandist and partisan.

Today's news services have assumed that their consumers are idiots and therefore have to explain everything in very simplistic terms. Then little by little, 'commentary' overtook 'news' until now when there are three seconds of facts interspersed with 24x7 live commentary by photogenic talking heads and panels of carefully selected, paid, 'experts'.

Real news just reports truth without embellishment. There isn't much of that around these days.

We all know it.

Fox to some extant, sure. But, did they bury the Epstein story and witnesses?

Fighting over which of the main companies are propagandists doesn't solve the issue of propaganda actually occurring.

I find it funny that the same people that called out ABC et al for burying/helping to bury the Epstein story, will claim that they are still legitimate sources of information regarding impeachment. Or anything Trump for that matter. Remember, they got pretty quiet about the Trump on Epstien's plane story (especially when the plane in question was not in fact the "lolita express") because they knew it would expose certain other big names.

The "Epstein Story".

Aside from the known absolute facts, aren't the other bits and pieces from this 'story' just speculative (i.e: hard evidence has not been presented)?

That's the difference between news and commentary/opinion/speculation/propaganda. The news WAS presented. The rest is necessarily speculation until someone presents some solid evidence.

More Republican talking points meant to distract and misdirect. Congress hasn’t properly passed a Budget since 1977.

A 2014 report notes that since fiscal year 1977, Congress has had to rely on federal funding extensions, known as continuing resolutions, at the end of the fiscal year in all but four years. These temporary funding bills, which have lasted anywhere from a few days to a full calendar year, typically extend the previous year’s appropriations for a limited amount of time in order to allow lawmakers time to haggle over funding priorities.

In recent years, these temporary extensions have accounted for an average of nearly four months of federal spending annually. According to more CRS data, from fiscal years 1998 through 2012, Congress averaged 6.1 continuing resolutions annually. Each year, those funding extensions lasted for 126.6 days on average.

Source

Nearly four months into fiscal 2018, Congress has passed none of the dozen spending bills it’s theoretically supposed to enact every year. Instead, lawmakers are on their third stopgap measure, which keeps government operations funded until Jan. 19. Failure to enact full-year spending bills by that date – or, failing that, another short-term measure – would force big chunks of the federal government to shut down.

If all this sounds familiar, it should. Far from being a new symptom of present-day Washington dysfunction, Congress’ chronic inability to follow its own appropriations process goes back decades. In fact, in the four decades since the current system for budgeting and spending tax dollars has been in effect, Congress has managed to pass all its required appropriations measures on time only four times: in fiscal 1977 (the first full fiscal year under the current system), 1989, 1995 and 1997.

Source

What does the gang call the OP? Oh yeah, fake news.

originally posted by: OOOOOO
Yes, it is quit a joke, strange though I'm not laughing. This morons running our Government, for the past 3 years, have been hell bent on disposing of what should be our "Beloved Chief Executive, The President of The U.S.A.". Instead of taking care of what is at hand for the good of the U.S.A. and it' people's. To much in fighting, bull carp, more than half of them are low life's, crook's at best.

I agree completely, but you might want to check your facts: the Republicans were in full control of the govt. for two of those years.

But seriously ... MORONS is too nice a word.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Congress hasn’t properly passed a Budget since 1977.

And that's a reason to not demand they do so?

What does the gang call the OP? Oh yeah, fake news.

And what part is fake?

Has a proper budget been passed?

Has the House been busy with impeachment proceedings?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Did you demand the republicans do it when they had the power?? or did you call it the Schiff shutdown as well??

a reply to: OzBoomer77

Which time are you referring to? There's been so many instances of ignoring the budget, that question is like giving directions around here by saying "turn left at the tree."

I have consistently been against any party shutting down the government over laziness. Why do you have an issue with pointing out problems when it happens to be Democrats in charge?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

don't use the typical tactic of deflection of the question and ask me a question.

you know the exact point I was making. you are saying why not demand they pass a proper budget of the Dems when Republicans had 2 years of being able to do so. Did you once say in that time, oh that's a pi55 poor effort that they can't get that done on their behalf. Or did you just go along for the ride of Tax cuts are great??