An American Dilemma

America has fallen.

I joined the Army in 2003 because of 9/11, I felt so angry about the attack we experienced on 9/11, I didn’t join for college, I didn’t join for anything else but to serve my country. Fast forward 15 years and I don’t even recognize the country any longer, when I grew up everyone was equal at least in the eyes of the law, which is really what has always what it has been about. Today Americans attack each other based on their skin color, privilege is assumed based on skin color and so is political affiliation, if your black you are assumed to be a democrat if you are white you are a racist.

I was already plagued with anxiety of where this country was going because I honestly could not see how that divide could ever be crossed, sooner or later the union would break up be it 10 or 100 years, there is nothing cohesive keeping us together, so why do it.

Now the impeachment, something I never thought I would see to this extent. Personally, I feel Trumps phone call was stupid and not wise but its def not impeachable we all know that. We all know but some won’t admit that the media is not fair, anytime you are quite about things like that you are hurting not only your opponent but also yourself, there was corruption in Ukraine and our state dept is fomenting revolutions around the world, I thought the left was against nation building. I think conservatives can consider their bias when it comes to politics, I don’t think liberals are, and I think actions show us that. It isn’t conservatives pushing people off campuses, its not conservatives on twitter demanding that Ellen DeGeneres not sit with an ex-president, if she can’t sit with our leader then I guess she isn’t allowed to sit with half of America.

Now to the point of my post after that rambling. HOW, do we get out of this? Now here me out because I don’t think many have thought this through.
I don’t see how civil conflict doesn’t come out of this REGARDLESS of the outcome because of this fact.
Even if Trump isn’t impeached if he wins re-election the left is not going to accept it this time, they will riot and possibly even go further. If Trump loses what is the right supposed to do, the democrats and the media have unfairly tarnished his name for 4 years, literally printing fake stories as fast as they could copy them, how can Trump supporters feel they got a fair shake with the election, I could see Trump refusing to secede and I wouldn’t blame him, they are poisoning the well of public opinion. I do not have an issue with people reporting facts, but I do have an issue with spin in supposed hard news outlets and the biggest problem I have with the media today, they never report the entire story, they only ever report the bits that push their narrative forward. Some will say but FOX NEWS. Well you have not watched fox news then because I promise you, I watch them all, its by far the most unbiased of the TV news presenters, they at least have their presenters let people know they are opinion when its opinion and news when its news.
So how do we get out of this now? If he is impeached civil conflict, if he isn’t civil conflict?

a reply to: sprockets2000

I think... as a people... we need to stop expecting things aboout the establishment, and we need to begin building our own society.

I am Canadian, but even up here we are starting to lose freedoms and things that are supposed to be rights. I do think that the most logical next step is to form our own system.

a reply to: sprockets2000

I was at a fellowship meeting last night. Trump came up and there were people on both sides. Both seemed to be as strong in their love or hate for the man.

I was surprised that each time the discussion bordered on becoming over the top, they were able to agree to disagree.

This is not a good example, as fellowship is designed for people to come together for understanding, learning, acceptance, love, and compassion .

I live in a rural area, most people that choose this lifestyle are fairly likeminded, though they are usually also pigheaded, prejudiced, defiant, and quick to help out a neighbor, even the ones they don't like. I will add my little slice of country, is very diverse, but as American as apple pie.

I think the America you once knew and fought for is still here, she just isn't talked about or acknowledged unless she slips and is caught with her skirt up, showing her bloomers, or showing her naked ass.

a reply to: sprockets2000

I do have an issue with spin in supposed hard news outlets and the biggest problem I have with the media today, they never report the entire story, they only ever report the bits that push their narrative forward.

As long as this keeps happening, NOTHING will change. There was a time when the media was fairly neutral and only reported the news. Now, MSM is nothing more than the Democratic Party's propaganda machine, causing divisiveness by spewing lies and fake news stories.

a reply to: TaninimLong

I so agree. I keep reminding people that the government is not supposed to be our mother or father.

We have stopped being self reliant and expect the government to take care of our every need.

We have allowed it to become our Lord and master, then we want to bitch complain when things aren't the way we want it to be.

a reply to: sprockets2000

We were divided starting in 2007 and it got worse through 2016, now it's unfixable.

The difference between Conservatives/Independents and the left is that Conservatives and Independents have their own beliefs and if you don't follow suit, it's ok. The left, however, will force their ideas down your throat and demean your character, try to ruin you, and attack you if you don't fall in with those ideals.

Basically, Conservatives/Independents are more like "do what you wanna do, just leave me out of it"
and the left is like "do as we say or we'll ruin you."

If you want to get involved, get involved. If you don't, then don't. This is how it used to be for most of the country and things were great, we all got along for the most part. Vote against obama? Racist. Vote against Hillary? Misogynist. Don't support the gay lifestyle and coddle gays? Homophobe. It's annoying. Just do what you wanna do and stop trying to make everyone support it if they don't want to.

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: sprockets2000

We were divided starting in 2007 and it got worse through 2016, now it's unfixable.

The difference between Conservatives/Independents and the left is that Conservatives and Independents have their own beliefs and if you don't follow suit, it's ok. The left, however, will force their ideas down your throat and demean your character, try to ruin you, and attack you if you don't fall in with those ideals.

Basically, Conservatives/Independents are more like "do what you wanna do, just leave me out of it"
and the left is like "do as we say or we'll ruin you."

The truth is probably much more in the middle of the delineation you've made above. Hyperbole and Extreme takes though get stars/flags so I get why we hear so much of it here.

a reply to: Wayfarer

You might be right. But if you watch the media and the government, the leftists want you to conform to their ideas or ruin your life. The right and middle just want to live and let live.

Look what they're doing to Trump. For 3 years they've tried to nail him because he doesn't run this country the way they want him to, and they still haven't been able to find something to nail him on. It's one thing to disagree, but it's whole different ballgame when you use violence and intimidation when someone doesn't conform to your ideas.

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: Wayfarer

You might be right. But if you watch the media and the government, the leftists want you to conform to their ideas or ruin your life. The right and middle just want to live and let live.

Look what they're doing to Trump. For 3 years they've tried to nail him because he doesn't run this country the way they want him to, and they still haven't been able to find something to nail him on. It's one thing to disagree, but it's whole different ballgame when you use violence and intimidation when someone doesn't conform to your ideas.

I hear what you're saying and your feelings are valid.

I have similar (earily so) feelings on the flip side.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is as much as you and I like to think the 'other' side is populated entirely by wackjobs and nutters and are assured in the rightness of our viewpoints and positions, the truth is we've become so emotionally involved in the political aspects of life here in the US we're forgetting that it covers but a (usually) small facet of the totality of people.

I say this a bunch so it probably sounds hackneyed but my best friend (since childhood), best man at my wedding is a Trump supporter. I love him like a brother, and aside from my kids and immediate family probably the person I care most about. No matter how much we debate/argue like is done here on ATS ultimately I know he's still 99.99% as good a person as I wished he was and whatever silly difference in politics we have is ultimately and utterly minor.

I feel the same way about you and many other posters here on ATS. I am almost completely certain you are a wonderful person (regardless of your political beliefs), and if we met under any other auspice we'd probably enjoy hanging out or having a beer or something. We're two folks with diametrically opposed viewpoints who could be friendly and doing good to/for each other, and I sincerely believe that kind of interaction is far more likely if we ever met in person. At the end of the day we're human beings first, and stripped of the trappings of 'tribe' most of us are good to each other.

a reply to: sprockets2000

If you don't like the people living in this country you can always leave.

a reply to: Wayfarer

And that right there is exactly how things used to be. If we talked about anything outside of politics we'd probably get along great. Indiana... Hoosiers fan or Notre Dame? Football? We could talk all day long about that, or mythical creatures, space, conspiracies, etc.. The Redneck is a huge Alabama (currently LSU's biggest rival) fan, and would probably join right in.

I think the biggest cause of the divide is the media and social media and, of course, besides not knowing each other personally, texts are almost ALWAYS taken out of context which only makes things worse. I hate social media and today's media.

I'd hang out with you and could definitely go all day without talking politics.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: sprockets2000

If you don't like the people living in this country you can always leave.

Perhaps the people trying to change it into a socialist utopia should just move to their choice of the current socialist utopias on the planet.

My wife's family are hard and fast union people. They don't realize the Democrat party of today is nothing like the JFK Democrats. All they do is bitch and moan about how rotten Trump is, forgetting that our economy, jobs and unemployment rate haven't been this good in decades. Trump can do nothing right in their eyes. They don't understand that the very people Trump is helping right now is not them, they're retired, it's us and our kids and their kids. But their true-blue union mentality won't allow them to admit that he is good for our country at this moment.

We don't discuss politics anymore. When they start, I leave. I have tried to show them facts that dispute their anti-Republican rants but they won't listen. Even when I agree with them about certain things, all Republicans are still horrible, pro-corporation, anti-blue collar, etc.

It's frustrating.

Basically, Conservatives/Independents are more like "do what you wanna do, just leave me out of it"

a reply to: LSU2018

Unless, of course, you want to marry someone you love.

Or smoke weed.

Or be a Muslim.

Or want affordable healthcare.

Or background checks.

Or want corporations to pay their fair share.
Other than that, your right.

I'd hang out with you and could definitely go all day without talking politics.

a reply to: LSU2018

Some people don't mind talking about the future of the country they live in. The one they served for and love. Not talking politics is akin to putting your head in the sand.

I do not fear discussing the future of my country, I embrace it.

But it's not for everyone, I understand. It takes a person with certain grit and fortitude. The rest can stand on the sidelines and watch.

originally posted by: TaninimLong
I think... as a people... we need to stop expecting things about the establishment, and we need to begin building our own society.

At the moment the collective middle class stops funding the thing that wishes to consume them ... whole.

originally posted by: ErEhWoN

Basically, Conservatives/Independents are more like "do what you wanna do, just leave me out of it"

a reply to: LSU2018

Unless, of course, you want to marry someone you love.

Or smoke weed.

Or be a Muslim.

Or want affordable healthcare.

Or background checks.

Or want corporations to pay their fair share.
Other than that, your right.

Typical, you got almost all of that wrong.

We don't care who you want to marry, just don't make a big show about it and ask for special rights.

Toke away, just don't drive after you do.

Believe how you want, just don't keep trying to kill those who disagree with you.

We had a decent, though flawed system prior to the ACA. That screwed up things worse than they were.

Background checks are a federal mandate when purchasing a gun from a dealer. Private sales will never be included because there's no possible way to verify it. Mental health issues are forbidden from checks due to HIPAA.

At least you got the last one right.

a reply to: sprockets2000

It's a sad day when an american president has to fight an
american government to protect the american people.

Thanks Adam Shiff well done in deed!

The democrats I see on tv are not real, the politicians especially. Most republicans and democrats get along. According to the media and politicians the world is ending. Bullspit. Since the invention of the internet, more people have access to communicate and spread their ideology. Interesting enough a minority in ideological beliefs exist in the social media platform, Twitter, Facebook, google etc. so most of the social media that gets elevated to the top has allot to do with that SJW issues become front page news etc. it’s not the majority. Sometimes you have to take the prism glasses off to see clearly.

The MSM is hyping and dividing the nation, in 2019, anger sells. Democrats are creating bad press against trump, and the republicans. The democrats lost in 2016, so the media, is spinning and spinning stories to keep them energized. When you have Twitter, and social media, it provides politics and policy beliefs to clash. YET in the real world face to face most people are civil. The sky is not falling, the media will continue this until we turn them off or not read their words. It’s that simple. The thing that I struggle with understanding is these political stories keep you distracted from the truth, the reality we live in. I advise all of you to focus on those things more, and allow the politics to worry about themselves.

a reply to: HalWesten

When you say union, are you talking teachers union or actors union?
The construction trade unions are heavy Trump fans.
Aside from that troll weirdo on here.
Drive by a jobsite, you will see tons of stickers.
Liberal unions?lmao