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Mediation - A Frustrating issue

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posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 10:01 PM
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I’ve been interested in learning more about innate ESP talents for many years. I’ve read a fair amount of material, had a share of experiences, but still feel lost.

There’s a really solid reason I feel lost. I can’t mediate. I’ve tried many things to help me meditate, to no avail. No, I haven’t tried drugs, as that’s something I strive to avoid.

I’m possibly ADD (no way of even knowing to ask for such a test), anxious, and high-strung. Getting to sleep is usually a battle, and relaxing is practically impossible.

To explain just how hard it is for me to relax, I don’t even enjoy a good massage. Sigh. The only time I ever relax is when I sleep, and even then, I’m not so sure I do, every night. My brain just never seems to want to turn off, and it runs around with me even when I am half asleep.

And this is just so damn frustrating (see, there is more stress right there, heh). I’ve achieved a high level of meditation 3 times, and each time was totally random and completely unexpected. I could not repeat those 3 times no matter what. No could I contrive again, the circumstances that led to those 3 times.

I’m a bit embarrassed by this, but not enough to prevent me from seeing what other people might suggest. I've never posted this in a public forum, and I hope people will understand my position.

I’ve tried:

A hot bath.
A cool bath.
A day and evening along, totally stress free.
A comfortable corner and chair, to really sink into.
Sex
Alchol (ok, that drug I’ve used)
A couple of different kind of teas.
St. John’s Wort
Music
And probably a few things I’ve forgotten.

Suggestions appreciated, but please steer away from things that involve another person. (I live alone, and have just recently moved to a new area, and have no real friends as of yet).

-VW


[edit on 7-3-2005 by VisionWithin]

[edit on 7-3-2005 by VisionWithin]




posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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Do you really believe in it, or do you just want to see what others think?

Reason I ask is because if one has doubts, it may act as a form of unconcious blocking, preventing you from any form of the inherent ability.
Some people may even have a "wild" talent for it, some times it works others it don't, just cant seem to figure it out, why will it work some times and not others. Well, everyone knows the brain is capable of more than it's being used for, if we could just use more than we are able, god only knows what could be done.



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR
Do you really believe in it, or do you just want to see what others think?

Reason I ask is because if one has doubts, it may act as a form of unconcious blocking, preventing you from any form of the inherent ability.
Some people may even have a "wild" talent for it, some times it works others it don't, just cant seem to figure it out, why will it work some times and not others. Well, everyone knows the brain is capable of more than it's being used for, if we could just use more than we are able, god only knows what could be done.



I am sorry I wasn't clear in this post. I honestly belived I had typed this out properly. I wanted to see if anyone else had suggestions on how to meditate.

I believe. I have been there 3 times. I know I can do it. Alas, like many talents, one has to find the path to get there. And I alas, seem very handicapped in getting there. I will certainly admit that I am skeptical of much, while on the other hand, very open-minded. Is it possible that I have the problems only because I don't believe as much as I should? If so, I find this hard to credit, as I know many cultures far back into our past have this skill. If I am wrong in interpreting you comments, I apologize.

-VW



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 11:16 PM
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The one time I managed true meditation scared the crap out of me and decades later, I haven't been able to get even close that point since. I understand and appreciate your frustrations, but don't give up on it. I think what happened to me was more of a visionary experience, but I know what I saw and felt was overwhelming and my inability to return to that state is culminated mostly from my own apprehensions. I was too young to understand it, and too frightened to really experience it, and I had the distinct feeling of being 'taken' rather than going. I wish I had payed more attention and stayed focused on what was happening to me, and where I was going because I believe that I was about to be shown something very important. That one incident changed my life completely, and I devoted much of life there after to research and study, trying to understand what the hell had happened to me, and what I had seen and felt. I don't want to go into details, for fear of sounding like a total nut case, but I think I can sum it all up with a quote by Jim Morrison...
""There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors."
It was more real than real, if that makes any sense, and the most profound experience you can imagine. Breathing, comfort, repetition, and total quieting of the mind, don't try to 'go' there, it will come to you. I started out imagining a small white stone sinking into a bottomless sea of clear endless water, and as silly as that sounds, it worked apparently. That's all I the advice I can really offer, but yes, meditation is real, and no it's not just sitting around thinking nothing, it's a journey, an experience that I have yet to find it's equal in either dreams or drugs. It may be hard to reach that level of unattachment, but trust me, you will know when it happens. If it happens don't be frightened, I ruined my experience by being afraid of it, and wound up springing from the edge of my bed and collapsing on the floor in front of me in a cold sweat screaming and shaking. If I could relive any moment in my life I would go back to that moment and hold onto it, to see where I was being taken, so if you ever get the experience, for your own sake, stick with it. I spent the rest of my life trying to get back there to see what I missed.



posted on Mar, 7 2005 @ 11:45 PM
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Sounds like a personal revelation, I know exactly what your getting at.

I also, am like you and don't talk about things of the supra natural, mostly because not enough people would understand if they wanted to.

You both can relax, ATS welcomes us with open arms. Just follow the rules and every thing is peachy.




posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 02:11 AM
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Well I think maybe you are on the good track, the fact that you are aware of your thoughts is a step in the right direction.
But maybe try not to be bothered by them or attach any other feelings to them.
I had the same difficulty with relaxing because to relax your mind you have to relax your body and vice versa. What helped me were two things.
First was the trick of focusing on the body to let it go. I used to focus on my feet and tense up the muscles in my feet for 3 secs and then relax them. Focus on my lower legs en tense up the muscles there and relax them. Then your thighs, your hands, arms, body, neck, face. then tense up your whole body and then let go again. Feel the buzz in your body and relax deeper and deeper, but at the same time stay aware of your whole body. Breath evenly in your belly and do it again. After that you can do the same but instead of tensing up your muscles, imagine tensing up your bones.
Another thing that helped me was doing taiji chuan. Which is just a way of meditation only you're doing fysical exercise and breathing exercise at the same time as well.
But then everybody has to find out what's best for themselves.

i think you're on the right track don't give up choose a technique and stick with it. It's not how elaborate or how long your exercise is , it's the your perseverance that makes it count. It's better to try it 6 times for 10 minutes than cramp yourself an hour. Don't expect anything.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 02:57 AM
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Hmm..
Number one, you will never be able to meditate if you are trying to meditate.

Does that make sense?


You can only do one thing at a time - if you are trying to meditate then you are not meditating.

If you have a mind that won't stop, my recommendation to you is set aside some time, turn off the radio, tv, computer, phone, etc. and sit down in front of a blank wall and just sit there looking at it. No pictures, no designs - just a blank wall.

Don't worry about reaching any particular "place" in your mind or any "level" of relaxation or any goal at all. Just sit there.

Don't try to stop your mind - instead notice the the thoughts that arise, but try not to follow them on tangents. Just notice that you've had a thought and let it pass.

Get used to sitting still and having no expectations.

Hope that helps you get started.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 08:39 AM
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Rick Warren, in 'The Purpose Driven Life', says that if you know how to worry, then you know how to meditate. I think his claim is; worry is misdirected meditation. The book is about Christian spirituality, by the way.

The intense focus on a single subject that drives worrying is what he's getting at with that statement. Replace the worrisome subject with -
nothingness. Give your brain permission to have a little freedom from the tasks at hand, and all the big and little things you keep it occupied with. Let go of the reins, so to speak, and go where your peaceful, undirected thoughts take you. Flow with your thoughts, not clutching or grasping but acknowledging then moving on. No constrictions, no restraints, just pure mental freedom. There is nothing like it!




posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Replace the worrisome subject with - nothingness.


Makes you a prime target for remote mind manipulation too.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 09:09 AM
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I think ADVISOR made a good point, some people just don't have the ability to master meditation.

I have meditated all my life for years and it takes time, but when I am anxious is not way I can relax immediately but I have to work on it.

Meditation is something I called an art, because you have to work on it for a long time before you can truly understand it.

Only time and patient will help make you better.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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Marijuana!

This is not a bad drug, at all. I've had much more successes mediating and relaxing while stoned. Weed is not a bad thing (I'll argue this to the death with anyone who says otherwise). I smoke weed, pretty regularly, I’m not addicted in any way shape or form - but I know people who are, but that’s because they've smoked weed every day for the last 3/4/5 years. In moderation marijuana is a very, very good way of relaxing. Try it.

[edit on 8-3-2005 by Ishes]



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 11:15 AM
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Although drugs can put you in a certain mental state, it won't show you how to get there yourself.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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Your problem lies in your question ....

You TRIED..... Therefore you failed...

Trying implies that you have doubt...

You don't try to meditate ... quite the opposite... you just meditate..

Before you attempt at jumping over the moutain maybe you should do some reading..
You need to lose some extra baggage... ever heard of your EGO? ... yeh well, lose it.. You're not going to need it where you're going.

Just close your eyes... in a quiet, still room.... light your favorite incense... (scent is a very powerful sense, and it's associated with states of mind and memory) .... first concentrate on that....
then shift your concentration to the noises in the backround, but don't pick them out and listen to them, listen to them like music... no identifying or paying attention to anything in specific, just the noise in general... and forget your ego... that is to say, there is no such thing as a bad sound... or loud sound or quiet sound .. it's all JUST sound... so if you hear a bang, do just that... let your ears hear the bang... that's it... Don't act on it.. or think about it... just hear it... hear everything.. Then you'll find the most annoying person in the world... YOURSELF.... You'll find you can't shut up ... can't stop thinking and identifying things... you may get frustrated... avoid that... just listen to it... after awhile like this you will notice you become two people almost and you are simply listening to yourself as if you ARE someone else... if you have a hard time shutting yourself up... focus on sounds... you can make your own up... (have you ever said ONE word so much it lost meaning and sounded funny?.... same idea here... pick a word you like and repeat it over and over until you forget its meaning and you will be absorbed in the sound of the word and not the word... it's a temporary way of shutting yourself up... or you can listen to a gong .. or chimes... or if you live near a beach the waves..
the point is discipline ... being able to focus your attention to what YOU want, and not what your senses or body wants...

If you need further help or if anyone has any comments just leave them, and I'll reply.

EDIT: I just reread your post and wanted to point out that Alcohol is the worst drug you could possibly take for meditation ... Marijuana is also not the greatest unless you can tame it before you tame yourself, or unless Cannabis likes you and agrees with you, which is not always the case....
You want to avoid external drugs like caffiene and nicotine ... things that are alarms clocks to the material world... you don't want your ego anywhere near you when you meditate... you won't learn anything then ..

[edit on 8/3/05 by dnero6911]



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 12:03 PM
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Ah, yes, remote mind manipulation. But why the raspberry? You take exception to meditation on the basis that it makes one susceptible to remote mind manipulation, Sen5e? I think that the benefits of positive meditation far outweigh the risks. Strength of mind and spirit gained through positive meditation can be great protection against the rampant attempts at in-person mind manipulation that every social individual encounters every day. Remote manipulation is the least of the average person's worries. But you aren't an average person, are you Sen5e?

It is my understanding that nothing uninvited can take control of or manipulate one who is positively meditating. So be careful what you give permission to enter your metaphysical space, and who you give permission to enter your personal space.

Sen5e, permission denied.




posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by VisionWithin
I’ve been interested in learning more about innate ESP talents for many years. I’ve read a fair amount of material, had a share of experiences, but still feel lost.

There’s a really solid reason I feel lost. I can’t mediate. I’ve tried many things to help me meditate, to no avail. No, I haven’t tried drugs, as that’s something I strive to avoid.

I’m possibly ADD (no way of even knowing to ask for such a test), anxious, and high-strung. Getting to sleep is usually a battle, and relaxing is practically impossible.

To explain just how hard it is for me to relax, I don’t even enjoy a good massage. Sigh. The only time I ever relax is when I sleep, and even then, I’m not so sure I do, every night. My brain just never seems to want to turn off, and it runs around with me even when I am half asleep.

And this is just so damn frustrating (see, there is more stress right there, heh). I’ve achieved a high level of meditation 3 times, and each time was totally random and completely unexpected. I could not repeat those 3 times no matter what. No could I contrive again, the circumstances that led to those 3 times.

I’m a bit embarrassed by this, but not enough to prevent me from seeing what other people might suggest. I've never posted this in a public forum, and I hope people will understand my position.

I’ve tried:

A hot bath.
A cool bath.
A day and evening along, totally stress free.
A comfortable corner and chair, to really sink into.
Sex
Alchol (ok, that drug I’ve used)
A couple of different kind of teas.
St. John’s Wort
Music
And probably a few things I’ve forgotten.

Suggestions appreciated, but please steer away from things that involve another person. (I live alone, and have just recently moved to a new area, and have no real friends as of yet).

-VW


[edit on 7-3-2005 by VisionWithin]

[edit on 7-3-2005 by VisionWithin]


Trying is key word here...as the subconscious mind is still waiting for the conscious mind level to finally release the intent (what needs to be done)...to the its (subconscious) level...

Also, the conscious mind level has to let it go and forget about it...and know that it will happened...unless the subconscious mind decide it is best not to do it now or later.

[edit on 8-3-2005 by mwen]



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 01:21 PM
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Grrrrrrrrr...I keep getting pulled into this forum...LOL

The state of being focused, alert, or engaged in any form of activity are related to beta waves and they have a frequency of 14 - 30 Hz.
After a really long day, all a person desires is to fall into a deep sleep.

Delta waves are associated with deep sleep. Their frequencies range from 0.5 - 4 Hz. Delta waves are known for triggering the release of growth hormone, which provides healing, hence the reason why sleep is so important during the healing process.

Theta waves have a frequency of 4 - 8 Hz and they occur mainly in children during the early stages of sleep, or in adults when they are emotionally stressed.

You need to try putting yoursle into Alpha, this may help you. The alpha state is a brain state comparable to the hypnotic. When the brain is in this state......it is functioning at a slightly lower frequency than a completely awake and conscious mind. This allows the powers of conscious thought to take a break, and the mind can open to suggestion and subconscious
thought. This is what you need to learn...


State Frequency range State of mind
Delta 0.5Hz - 4Hz Deep sleep
Theta 4Hz - 8Hz Drowsiness (also first stage of sleep)
Alpha 8Hz - 14Hz Relaxed but alert
Beta 14Hz - 30Hz Highly alert and focused



I am currently moving my entire site to it's owm domain...so you may hit a snag or two but read this..
www.geocities.com...

[edit on 3/8/2005 by LadyV]



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 02:09 PM
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I can't tell you all how pleased I am, to have received so many good replies. I'm at work, and can't take the time to respond to anyone individually, but all the same, THANK YOU.

I'll try to keep this thread alive and post details if I am successful, and why



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 05:20 PM
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Another thread you may find of interest here is this...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Dmt is suspected of bringing on the meditative state, auto-stimulation of the pineal gland is possible, but very poorly understood.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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I know of some people that have had difficulty meditating and had difficulty because they were expecting it to happen.

Some have used a sort of ritual with it and that helps with believability. You may want to do specifics, like wear a certain robe to meditate in ( something no one else uses) and only use it for meditation (maybe one with a hood). Or concentrate on a certain number of breathes (breathe in counting 4 and exhale count of 6........ 5 or 6 times.

Creating little habits in preparation. You can also download Audacity and make a progressive relaxation tape of your own that will help. Give it a week or so. It will happen.



posted on Mar, 8 2005 @ 11:20 PM
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I think, in order to trully meditate you must first create room for it. You need to create space. The space is part of you so you then become meditative. The more space you create the more meditative you are. This increases the ease at which you can achieve a mental state outside your subjective default state.

On a crowded piss smelling mass transit train with 100,000 watt fluorescent bulbing at 7am on your way to work. No problem if you have the space for it.

Oh yea. Space is created by not thinking. Thinking your not thinking is still thinking. It's cumulative though; the space. So even if you can only 'not think' for 10 seconds at a time it will add up.

In order to accomplish not thinking your will has to be strong enough. This will is used to break the chain of animation. Your attention will animate any thought that comes to mind. Use your will to stop your attention from animating the thought. As was stated prior; let the thoughts pass while observing them.

An easy way to get will is to use awareness. Awareness helps the will to get ahold of the perpetual reguritating mental machine by creating a pause. The pause is enough for a decision to be allowed on whether to animate the thought or not. Continued awareness after allowing a thought to animate will allow a decision to quit the usual thought process mid-stream, speed it up or analyze it (the most productive).

Awareness may be difficult. To aid awareness use emotion and memory. Pick an emotion that is predominant for you and remind yourself to become aware whenever that emotion presents itself. It's pretty easy to remember when you get angry. Soon, as with any other training, your mind will start alerting you to become aware of your thought process whenever you get angry. Then you can start to memorize the things that get you angry. This will get you used to awareness which will increase your will with each moment you hold that awareness.

Your will, will grow. Use the will to stop more thoughts until you are able to achieve actual non-thinking. For me, non-thinking has a very profound feeling attached to it. I use that feeling as a marker. The non-thinking will create the inner space. The space has a very profound feeling attached to it as well.

So when I'm on that train I just have a total recall of the feeling of non-thinking, the feeling of the inner space, a few thoughts I use to calm the body down, the will to not animate additional thoughts and the awareness to recognize the feelings have slipped and thought animation has started.




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