Why Is Bill Gates Being Criticized For His Skepticism Over Warren's "Wealth Tax?"

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: DanDanDat

Many do care. You have no idea how much money people give away to various causes.

Look around your community. Hospitals. Parks. Universities. Schools. Shelters. Museums. All funded by wealthy philanthropist and other benefactors.

Bill Gates has made hundreds of thousands of millionaires. Has employed hundreds of thousands of people. He is worth $100 billion because he created a company that is damn near worth $1 trillion.

Clearly not enough or people like Warren wouldn't have such a hold over others.

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: DanDanDat

Many do care. You have no idea how much money people give away to various causes.

Look around your community. Hospitals. Parks. Universities. Schools. Shelters. Museums. All funded by wealthy philanthropist and other benefactors.

Bill Gates has made hundreds of thousands of millionaires. Has employed hundreds of thousands of people. He is worth $100 billion because he created a company that is damn near worth $1 trillion.

Clearly not enough or people like Warren wouldn't have such a hold over others.

Warren's popularity just shows a large percentage of the voting populace is stupid and misinformed, nothing more....

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: MisterSpock
a reply to: Edumakated

Tim does a pretty good job in his videos. I don't agree with him on everything(actually more like 50 percent of the time) but he's genuine from what I can tell and FARRRRR more of a journalist than anyone on television.

I'll plug another guy that I think most people who follow tim would like(i've been seeing a lot more people putting tim's videos up).

Andrew, over at Don't Walk, Run!, usually does a fantastic job of putting forth the work(hard data, facts, logic) when he does a video. His videos on yangs rambling UBI nonsense are scathing. Makes me wonder how yang could even manage to balance a checkbook.

I don't agree with 100% either. Hell, I don't agree with anyone 100% of the time. However, he seems to be pretty genuine and fact based. I argue the facts, not the messenger...

I agree, and I wasn't implying you(or anyone who posts his videos) is in 100 percent agreement. Just, as you stated, that he's possibly one of the most fact based and genuine people that seems to be doing some real reporting.

Check out Andrew, let me know what you think, I feel he'll end up being a pretty good source in the near future. Not nearly as many videos as tim, but I think he takes more time and does more "numbers" work than tim does on some of the more critical pieces.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: DanDanDat

Many do care. You have no idea how much money people give away to various causes.

Look around your community. Hospitals. Parks. Universities. Schools. Shelters. Museums. All funded by wealthy philanthropist and other benefactors.

Bill Gates has made hundreds of thousands of millionaires. Has employed hundreds of thousands of people. He is worth $100 billion because he created a company that is damn near worth $1 trillion.

Clearly not enough or people like Warren wouldn't have such a hold over others.

Warren's popularity just shows a large percentage of the voting populace is stupid and misinformed, nothing more....

Hmmm yes perhaps

So a wealth gap keeps increasing world wide and all we can do is be afraid that the billionaires might move their money away from this or that country?

It just sounds like we are creating a world around the whims of the ultra rich.

a reply to: shawmanfromny

The answer is yes. What I don't get is these individuals and groups that complain about the wealthy and believe that having them pay more is the way to go. Unfortunately the real world doesn't work like that. Well if the government could just create more jobs they say. The thing to remember is the Government has no money.

It is the people's money and it just becomes a shell game once the feds get their hands on it. Maybe if we want the government to do some things, look at ending all foreign aid and giving the money back to the people that put it in, that could be a start but again someone will always want more

1) People lose the incentive to work hard, which is a HUGE issue with hand outs If people want something there are plenty of opportunities for them to go out and earn it. Many people want the easy way and it doesn't work that way

2) AS mentioned before in most cases the wealthy people or individuals with savings are teh ones creating teh new businesses, hiring people, and creating growth. Without that the examples can be shown what happens. It doesn't work
and to boil it down people don't want to just give u their money THEY worked for.

3) Open market is the best way to go. You do not want the Government controlling everything and setting prices. What if it doesn't work? The Government will just screw it up even more and we will never see an end. With free market if the product isn't there you can go somewhere else and try that and the groups that fail will fold. It is always evolving to give the best product to the customer. As Ronnie said the only thing that lasts forever is a Government program

originally posted by: TheAlleghenyGentleman
a reply to: shawmanfromny

I say tax those rich pr*cks. I would rather tax them and if they hid their money in shell accounts I think we as a nation would find out which of the rich wasn’t playing fair. I’m the wrong person to ask anyway because I’m convinced the game is rigged and the poor and designed to stay at the bottom regardless of what any politician preaches.

You're an idiot. It won't be the ones you envy who get taxed. It will be your own retirement savings.

We work hard take our taxed income and put a percentage into a savings investment account. We do it after taxes so that eventually that money will come to us relatively tax free when we're old.

The type of tax Warren wants will hit that money someday after we're too old to go out and earn more easily. It will do the same to millions of other otherwise middle class folks like ourselves who are busy doing the same so that someday, we'll have some money to live on in old age.

That's the sort of money and funds that are called "wealth" and that's where the last great untaxed money lies, and the stinking politicians know it. They rely on idiots like yourself hating people like Gates enough to fall for it so they can come for your last safe dollars.

I’ll say they are not confiscating his property. Property is things you own. We don’t own our currency. They would be confiscating a work/time transfer (capital) which they confiscate from all of us all the time anyway. And let’s be clear, the wealthy should absolutely be taxed more. When money is seen as work/time value the fact is that the work/time equation of money for the wealthy is vastly different than the work/time value for the working class. This is the reality of what money is.

For us working class, the govt confiscates almost 40% of our work/time. So we essentially work almost 5 months of the year JUST to pay the govt. On that level, it should be fair that 5 months of the wealthy elites work/time should be taken as well. That’s the fair point. Keeping in mind, as you go up the scale for income and wealth, it becomes far easier to increase the amount of money you make. For someone making $15 an hour, it takes far more work invested to add another 10k to their annual income, than say someone making 100k a year, and even far more so someone making millions.

Further, we have a mistaken narrative that it’s most important to leverage the economy towards creating lots of more jobs, and putting the money into creating those jobs. But we completely ignore the other end, of providing the money for people to spend keeping those jobs functional. We support giving mass funds to the “job creators” ignoring the effect created by not supporting higher wages for the consumer base. This is leading to its logical conclusion of a massive dichotomy between the two, with the actual products and services stuck in between, struggling to limp on in a society where poorer people have less and less money to buy the very things they are making.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: TheAlleghenyGentleman
a reply to: shawmanfromny

I say tax those rich pr*cks. I would rather tax them and if they hid their money in shell accounts I think we as a nation would find out which of the rich wasn’t playing fair. I’m the wrong person to ask anyway because I’m convinced the game is rigged and the poor and designed to stay at the bottom regardless of what any politician preaches.

You're an idiot. It won't be the ones you envy who get taxed. It will be your own retirement savings.

We work hard take our taxed income and put a percentage into a savings investment account. We do it after taxes so that eventually that money will come to us relatively tax free when we're old.

The type of tax Warren wants will hit that money someday after we're too old to go out and earn more easily. It will do the same to millions of other otherwise middle class folks like ourselves who are busy doing the same so that someday, we'll have some money to live on in old age.

That's the sort of money and funds that are called "wealth" and that's where the last great untaxed money lies, and the stinking politicians know it. They rely on idiots like yourself hating people like Gates enough to fall for it so they can come for your last safe dollars.

Avoid personal attacks or go somewhere else.

a reply to: ketsuko

And I don’t know what to tell you, if you think the 5% of the stock market that’s owned by the working class pensions and 401k, largely in derivatives and junk bonds, are the hope of future solvency for retiring Americans. It’s a scam. As shown by the statistics of your generations almost complete failure to save enough to retire, and for the absolute absence of retirement that awaits the generation now growing up.

a reply to: pexx421

They arent confiscating his property? Are you high?

The reason he is worth 100 billion is because he OWNS a large portion of Microsoft. Shares of stock are property. Assets.

Making someone sell their assets to pay a tax is criminal.

Where I do agree with you is that it is ludicrous that people are working 4 and 5 months just to pay taxes. We need to be lowering that tax burden for everyone.

a reply to: Edumakated

Another thing to keep in mind is that while people focus on income inequality, wealth inequality is actually far greater. In fact, the vast majority of Americans to the tune of like 80%, own none of the wealth at all.

a reply to: ketsuko

Oooooohh. Idiot!!!!

Anyway....The wealth tax is targeting about 80,000 individuals across the US.

I think tax avoidance and evasion would be a problem under Warrens plan. I don’t think all the wealth should be distributed to a select few. So then we would have an exit tax. And the cat and mouse taxing games would continue as the ultra rich bob and weave as the government sputters.

What we probably need is a progressive tax system to tax people on what they can pay. So progressive tax for, wealth, estate and income.

And...... tag! You’re an idiot!

And another thing to keep in mind. For most in those “tax brackets” only a small percent of their annual earned monies come from “income”. The vast majority of their annual accrual comes from that “wealth” they are talking about taxing.

originally posted by: TheAlleghenyGentleman
a reply to: ketsuko

Oooooohh. Idiot!!!!

Anyway....The wealth tax is targeting about 80,000 individuals across the US.

I think tax avoidance and evasion would be a problem under Warrens plan. I don’t think all the wealth should be distributed to a select few. So then we would have an exit tax. And the cat and mouse taxing games would continue as the ultra rich bob and weave as the government sputters.

What we probably need is a progressive tax system to tax people on what they can pay. So progressive tax for, wealth, estate and income.

And...... tag! You’re an idiot!

The income tax when out in place around 1913 was originally supposed to be for the rich. Now look at it.

Only idiots think new taxes wont some how trickle down to everyone. It wi go from taxing wealth of billionaires to robbing someone of their $10k in a 401k.

You give an inch, govt will take a mile. It will never be enough money for govt.

The alternative minimum tax did the same thing. Was supposed to be for the rich but now slams the middle class.

a reply to: Edumakated

You obviously don’t understand how the class war works. It needs to be a constant back and forth, with us making changes to equalize it and them twisting it to suit their needs. They never stop twisting it to meet their goals, but according to you apparently, we should stop fighting to equalize it. That just leaves them free rein to keep twisting it more their way. It’s the struggle and conflict that provides the balance, struggle and conflict that we’ve long abandoned, hence our current situation.

originally posted by: pexx421
And another thing to keep in mind. For most in those “tax brackets” only a small percent of their annual earned monies come from “income”. The vast majority of their annual accrual comes from that “wealth” they are talking about taxing.

Which makes it even more idiotic. Wealth isn't always liquid and the value can constantly change. Make someone sell an asset just so you can tax it is dumb. It is the equivalent of taxing a car, but then making someone sell the car to get the tax.

a reply to: Edumakated

Your argument is that trickle down economics works?

Warren buffet has said numerous times that T.D.E. has only made the ultra rich wealthier.

From the man himself.

"Between the first computation in 1982 and today, the wealth of the 400 increased 29-fold — from $93 billion to $2.7 trillion — while many millions of hardworking citizens remained stuck on an economic treadmill. During this period, the tsunami of wealth didn't trickle down. It surged upward."

originally posted by: TheAlleghenyGentleman
a reply to: Edumakated

Your argument is that trickle down economics works?

Warren buffet has said numerous times that T.D.E. has only made the ultra rich wealthier.

From the man himself.

"Between the first computation in 1982 and today, the wealth of the 400 increased 29-fold — from $93 billion to $2.7 trillion — while many millions of hardworking citizens remained stuck on an economic treadmill. During this period, the tsunami of wealth didn't trickle down. It surged upward."

And he is wrong...

When was the last time you got hired by a poor person? Do you hire people to do work you don' t want to do yourself? DO the people you hire spend money as well?

Ken Griffin is one of the most successful hedge fund guys. He runs Citadel based out of Chicago. He is worth about $10 billion. Last year he bought the most expensive home in the US ever. Paid about $250 million for a penthouse in NYC.

Lets see how that wealth trickle downs. He employs about 1000 people in Chicago and maybe another 1000 more in NYC. They all are highly paid. I have a client who is a 30 something mathematician making north of $3 million/yr working at this firm.

The building Ken bought his place is a newly constructed condo highrise in NYC. The developer had to hire thousands of construction workers to work on that building. All making good wages. We haven't even gotten into the marketing firms, accountants, realtors, govt bureaucrats, attorneys, furniture companies, construction material companies, all the other ancillary services that need to be hired and do work on this project.

Literally, it could be several thousand people who earn a good pay check by touching the building that Ken Griffin decided to buy a $250 million condo in.

You can see how money flows for practically any thing. Airplanes. Yachts. Vacations. ANYTHING. there is always someone being hired to make a product possible so someone can buy it.

Any by the way, he has given away about $1 billion of his fortune. Various museums in Chicago have wings named after him. I think he gave like $100 million to Harvard or U of Chicago.