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The new dem charges: Extortion and Bribery (no more quid pro quo)

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posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: Iscool

The problem I have with the claim that Trump was simply after corruption is that his actions and the words of those under him that have testified under oath claim differently.

If he was after corruption why was there nothing said about the 4 investigations against Paul Manifort that were dropped? The investigations that were dropped just days after Gullianie visited. When Ukraine officials were questioned why they were dropped the only answer that was given was they didn't want to anger the top US officials. Trump administration also finalized a sale of anti-tank missiles, called javelins, within days of the Manafort case being dropped.

Rudy Giuliani accused Biden of interfering in a Ukrainian investigation for political gain. Giuliani may have done exactly that in 2017.



edit on 11-11-2019 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: Iscool

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Iscool

Oh, and PS, I know you admire truth so much.

The Biden deal was for LOAN guarantees not "taxpayer dollars."


Really??? Well who paid for the 7 billion bucks that came up missing??? Here's a clue: The American taxpayers...

If Ukraine borrowed money from China and we promised to pay China if Ukraine faulted on their loan, that would be a loan guarantee...But when Ukraine gets the cash from the U.S., that is NOT a loan guarantee...And since the U.S. doesn't have any of its own money, it's the TAXPAYERS...


You’re mistaken.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

If Joe Biden (and apparently, by extension Hunter) is guilty of what he did in 2015-2016 ... why wasn’t that the top priority of the Trump Justice Department?

I mean if Trump, Sessions, Barr, etc. have these serious suspicions of the Bidens why wait over two years to investigate it?

If the crime was committed in Ukraine, why haven’t they asked for extradition for Joe (or picked up Hunter while he was in the country)?

Further, if the reason Hunter Biden was put on the Burisma Board was only because his dad was the VPOTUS, why wasn’t he dismissed in January 2017?

Further still, if Joe Biden has committed malfeasance of this order of magnitude, why hasn’t he been indicted in the 2.5 years Trump has been in office?

Did Trump and Co. just recently become interested in corruption?



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: Gryphon66

Looking through A Definitive Timeline of The Trump-Ukraine Story ( Admittedly, a very thorough and concise timeline last updated now on nov 5th) I can only see where Barr became involved with regards to the 'Black Ledger' issue.

There was talk about Barr becoming involved with other investigations, but nothing concrete on whether Barr actually began to investigate or involved with any investigations regarding the Bidens nor Burisma.

Check out the link above, it is possible, I completely missed something. Far as I can see, the DOJ is not investigating the Biden's or Burisma nor have they in the past.



Surely though, President Trump has known about this since at least April 2016, right? Isn’t that when Shokin was removed? Is that when the corruption perpetrated by Biden/Obama happened?

Trump has had people working on this major national security issue previously surely?

Why would it only become an issue now?

(Thanks for the link, I’ll review it and see if I find anything).



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 01:41 PM
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So when Obama sent Iran a billion dollars not to build nukes, that wasn't extorsion or bribery.
a reply to: DBCowboy

You know it was not tax payer dollars right? if not??? no sense discussing this.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 01:51 PM
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If Joe Biden (and apparently, by extension Hunter) is guilty of what he did in 2015-2016 ... why wasn’t that the top priority of the Trump Justice Department?

I mean if Trump, Sessions, Barr, etc. have these serious suspicions of the Bidens why wait over two years to investigate it?

If the crime was committed in Ukraine, why haven’t they asked for extradition for Joe (or picked up Hunter while he was in the country)?

Further, if the reason Hunter Biden was put on the Burisma Board was only because his dad was the VPOTUS, why wasn’t he dismissed in January 2017?

Further still, if Joe Biden has committed malfeasance of this order of magnitude, why hasn’t he been indicted in the 2.5 years Trump has been in office?

Did Trump and Co. just recently become interested in corruption?
a reply to: Gryphon66

Don't confuse the circus with facts. These are people that have no honor and should be ignored... They do love their daily orgy of stars and flags.... but give that to them...

They are not patriots...



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 01:52 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: Gryphon66

Looking through A Definitive Timeline of The Trump-Ukraine Story ( Admittedly, a very thorough and concise timeline last updated now on nov 5th) I can only see where Barr became involved with regards to the 'Black Ledger' issue.

There was talk about Barr becoming involved with other investigations, but nothing concrete on whether Barr actually began to investigate or involved with any investigations regarding the Bidens nor Burisma.

Check out the link above, it is possible, I completely missed something. Far as I can see, the DOJ is not investigating the Biden's or Burisma nor have they in the past.



Surely though, President Trump has known about this since at least April 2016, right? Isn’t that when Shokin was removed? Is that when the corruption perpetrated by Biden/Obama happened?

Trump has had people working on this major national security issue previously surely?

Why would it only become an issue now?

(Thanks for the link, I’ll review it and see if I find anything).


The only ones making Biden's an issue are the Democrats. Trump's interest has always seemed to be in clearing his name regarding the accusations that the only reason he won was due to Russia and not due to his own merits.

The facts show Ukraine was involved with the 2016 election corruption and he believes he can clear his name and clean up some clogs in the DC swamp drains.

Biden's are not that big of deal to Trump unless investigations show there was more to it than simply Dad covering his son's *ss. Trump asked a 'favor' for Ukraine to look into past investigations...Biden's was an inclusion of Burisma. Diplomatic Reassurance to Ukraine that despite the rumors...Trump thought it was horrible if true and he did not approve.
edit on 11 11 2019 by CynConcepts because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grimpachi

If Joe Biden (and apparently, by extension Hunter) is guilty of what he did in 2015-2016 ... why wasn’t that the top priority of the Trump Justice Department?

I mean if Trump, Sessions, Barr, etc. have these serious suspicions of the Bidens why wait over two years to investigate it?

If the crime was committed in Ukraine, why haven’t they asked for extradition for Joe (or picked up Hunter while he was in the country)?

Further, if the reason Hunter Biden was put on the Burisma Board was only because his dad was the VPOTUS, why wasn’t he dismissed in January 2017?

Further still, if Joe Biden has committed malfeasance of this order of magnitude, why hasn’t he been indicted in the 2.5 years Trump has been in office?

Did Trump and Co. just recently become interested in corruption?



Seems you ought to know the answer to that...The Trump team has been fighting the FBI and Doj going on 3 years...They were trying to hang Trump over a fake Dossier...They certainly weren't going to investigate one of their own deep state actors...



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: tinner07



So when Obama sent Iran a billion dollars not to build nukes, that wasn't extorsion or bribery.
a reply to: DBCowboy

You know it was not tax payer dollars right? if not??? no sense discussing this.



What, they took it out of Obama's bank account???



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66



If Joe Biden (and apparently, by extension Hunter) is guilty of what he did in 2015-2016 ... why wasn’t that the top priority of the Trump Justice Department?


Because biden is a side show. What trump's team has been looking into is the origins of the "russia" investigation. At some point that road turned to ukraine which then brought bidens malfeasance into the headlights.



If the crime was committed in Ukraine, why haven’t they asked for extradition for Joe (or picked up Hunter while he was in the country)?


They've been trying to get the DoJ all the paperwork they need to charge him here but yavonovitch (I think it was her, might have been someone else, I'll look it up later) kept denying their visa requests. Eventually lutsenko hired an american law firm to come pick up the documents and deliver them to the DoJ.



Further, if the reason Hunter Biden was put on the Burisma Board was only because his dad was the VPOTUS, why wasn’t he dismissed in January 2017?


His dad is still a high ranking democrat. Sure he may not have the weight he once had but he still had value to be used.

Remember, donations to the clinton foundation didn't dry up until she lost her bid for the presidency.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 08:51 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Gryphon66

the State department is corrupt though itself so......


Everything but Trump is corrupt according to you guys so....

I only support trump because he is better than any of the dems. I voted for clinton(bill) as well. And you are on a conspiracy site. everyone in un elected offices and senate and congress are corrupt.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 09:30 PM
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a reply to: Grimpachi

The manafort black ledger was fake. The national anti-corruption bureau of ukraine was created by obama (via quid pro quo) and headed by a guy obama put in charge of it (also via quid pro quo). They created the black ledger and leaked it. IOW they framed manafort with it. This information has been known for a long time.

The NABU was tasked to work with chalupa to target paul manafort. The same chalupa that said in january 2016 she felt trump had russia connections, despite having no evidence for it. So why manafort? Look at his friends...

IOW, the moving of the manafort case out of the hands of NABU was moving the manafort case out of the hands of corrupt obama cronies. But let's dive a hair deeper. Lutsenko was also approved by obama, so why would the guy obama approved, bury it?



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 11:18 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Nope just his poor foreign policy that favored islamist states. By all means he was allowed that FP, but it was a disaster for us.



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: lakenheath24
Heres the thing with this whole line.....foreign aid is given to a country so that country will fall in line with whatever policy the US has in mind for it. It is used to influence(bribe) foreign leaders.

Always has been...so why is it now different with Trump? Cuz of Joe? Puhleeze....Ukraine seems to be the epicenter of dirt...from Russian money laundering to provinding dossier material.


I think the Tman is doing some swamp draining......except the swamp is in the Ukraine.


It is used to align countries with the policy of the US... not the political aspirations of the commander in chief. Those are not one in the same.



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 08:50 AM
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Seems you ought to know the answer to that...The Trump team has been fighting the FBI and Doj going on 3 years...They were trying to hang Trump over a fake Dossier...They certainly weren't going to investigate one of their own deep state actors...


Are you saying the entirety of DONALD TRUMP'S 113,114 DOJ employees were wrapped up in the Mueller investigation?



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: lakenheath24
Heres the thing with this whole line.....foreign aid is given to a country so that country will fall in line with whatever policy the US has in mind for it.


I agree, but would add that Military Aid is more important than economic aid or loan guarantees, more so when the country is defending itself from ongoing invasion and occupation.

The other distinction would be "whatever policy the US has in mind for it."

It is the distinction between US Policy and Personal benefit of US President that defines Abuse of Power.

The involvement of Rudy Giuliani and a covert team and policy outside normal channels.

The demand NOT that general corruption issues be addressed, but rather specific investigations into a political rival.
The Transcripts of the call and Text messages with Giuliani, Sondland, Taylor and Yermak all make that clear.

The specific demand was NOT that those investigations into a political rival simply be conducted, but rather that they be announced publicly on US Television (CNN). Gordon Sondland was clear that a public announcement was the President's required "deliverable" to free aid.

All speak to a very specific personal-political gain for the President rather than US Policy or any general concern about corruption.

I am open to being wrong with the addition of new information.

Hopefully public hearings and a Senate Trial will bring more light to the issue and the President's team can present evidence and an argument that makes more sense than what they have attempted thus far.



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 05:59 PM
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I love how truth takes a back seat to opinion, every time. a reply to: Sillyolme



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 10:57 PM
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a reply to: StevenCrowley

... you obviously didn't read the OP. Had you, you would have read this as the second sentence:



The thing about quid pro quo, that was positive for the dem narrative, is that it was never a crime but they could make it sound insidious.


If you could remove your head from your anus, it would be appreciated.



I mean who thinks there is a law against “quid pro quo”?!?!


Democrats, apparently. They spent weeks harping on it. Actually they knew it wasn't a crime, they just knew their base was too dumb to realize that. Just like "russian collusion."



posted on Nov, 13 2019 @ 02:01 AM
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UPDATE: Ukraine did not know the money was being held until a "Sr. Admin Official" leaked it to POLITICO and someone told Ukraine about it, on or about August 28, 2019.

www.westernjournal.com...

As the article points out, this kills off any notion of a Quid-Quo-Pro, Extortion, or Bribery. And verifies that President Zelensky was telling the truth when he said he was unaware that military aid was being withheld, while talking with President Trump.




posted on Nov, 13 2019 @ 02:04 AM
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a reply to: Dfairlite

I don't think level-headed individuals within the Democratic base are buying what their hate-mongering leaders are telling them this time. They're fed up with being yanked around like mindless drones by Pelosi, Schiff, and 90% of the "news" media.



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