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The Hopey Changey President versus the Drain the Swamp President

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posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
The biggest corporate communism is the Cartels paying into Democrat campaign funds bwaaaaaaahahahhahaha


Are you mentally challenged so that you are incapable of recognizing the very same ones are also paying the Republican campaign funds?

Both parties are exactly the same. The same lobbyists define public policies for both parties. Both parties foreign policies are defined by the Council of Foreign Relations. Why have elections at all?




posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: okrian


Why is the right always so predictable in it's inability to actually look at the complexity and desperation of the situation. If you aren't even on the ladder, you can't climb rungs.

I was homeless once.

Now I own a business and am doing just fine.

If I could do it anyone could.

America provides the ladder.

Some of us just have more rungs to climb.




posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 09:33 AM
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originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Maybe the problems of our country are NOT the people on the bottom.

Why can't they get a job?
Why can't they put an effort into getting an education?
Why can't they set aside their lifestyle for a few years in order to gain a career?


Contrary to your delusional right wing thinking there are two parts to this equation. It's not only just how much money you make, what also matters in equal proportion is the purchasing power of your take home pay. Talking about one without the other means you are moron in my opinion. Both are equally important.

This proves with have no free-market capitalism in this country to wring out the inefficiencies of exorbitant CEO pay and excessive dividend payouts:

Purchasing Power of the Consumer Dollar

There are lots of measurements you can use to prove the economy is going great or poorly. It comes down to how your own personal values define what is important.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 09:36 AM
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originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: okrian
Why is the right always so predictable in it's inability to actually look at the complexity and desperation of the situation. If you aren't even on the ladder, you can't climb rungs.
I was homeless once.
Now I own a business and am doing just fine.
If I could do it anyone could.
America provides the ladder.
Some of us just have more rungs to climb.


What you are saying is perfectly true and at the same time wealth inequality in this country obscenely unfair. Why is it only one way with you. Yes, I get it, there are some people who don't try enough. But that's not the only facet to the economic experience of people living in this country.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: conspiracy nut


So much for trickle down economics eh? Trickle em down a few peanuts the peasants should be happy with that.


Trickle down economics works. It’s just the trickle is a lot more yellow than people thought it would be.




posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 09:50 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: okrian
Why is the right always so predictable in it's inability to actually look at the complexity and desperation of the situation. If you aren't even on the ladder, you can't climb rungs.
I was homeless once.
Now I own a business and am doing just fine.
If I could do it anyone could.
America provides the ladder.
Some of us just have more rungs to climb.


What you are saying is perfectly true and at the same time wealth inequality in this country obscenely unfair. Why is it only one way with you. Yes, I get it, there are some people who don't try enough. But that's not the only facet to the economic experience of people living in this country.


Wealth inequality is a marketing tool used to sell socialism to the feeble-minded and naive.



edit on 11-11-2019 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: Lumenari

And you probably, really believe that.

Wow. I really don’t know what else to say.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: okrian
Why is the right always so predictable in it's inability to actually look at the complexity and desperation of the situation. If you aren't even on the ladder, you can't climb rungs.
I was homeless once.
Now I own a business and am doing just fine.
If I could do it anyone could.
America provides the ladder.
Some of us just have more rungs to climb.

What you are saying is perfectly true and at the same time wealth inequality in this country obscenely unfair. Why is it only one way with you. Yes, I get it, there are some people who don't try enough. But that's not the only facet to the economic experience of people living in this country.

Wealth inequality is a marketing tool used to sell socialism to the feeble-minded and naive.


I disagree with your opinion. I think the following needs to be addressed:

"According to the Federal Reserve over the last 30 years the top 1% have seen a 21 trillion increase in their wealth. And the bottom 50% have seen a 900 billion decrease in their wealth."

How much wealth concentrated into the fewest number of hands is enough in your mind?

The 3 Richest Americans Hold More Wealth Than Bottom 50% Of The Country

Disney heir on CEO's $66m pay: 'No one on the freaking planet is worth that'

"Iger made $65.6m in 2018 – 1,424 times the median salary of a Disney employee."

If we do nothing it will only get worse. How much wealth inequality is enough for you?


edit on 11-11-2019 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 10:09 AM
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originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: Lumenari

And you probably, really believe that.

Wow. I really don’t know what else to say.



I knew what say. I just posted it.

However, like you I don't understand how people think. Maybe they are paid agents by the billionaires to prevent any change to the status quo. I think it's probably more a case of just being programmed by propaganda where no other possible position is even considered.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 10:18 AM
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Over my many years of personal interactions I've come to one irrefutable truth:

You can not affect change in others; you can only decide to change your own behavior and than hope that your own personal change will inspire others to choose to change themselves.

This is true for personal relationships, professional relationships and for political relationships.

And it is why the OP is a futile attempt in appealing to reason. One can not cause conservatives to stand up and reject their political rigidity and tribalism no mater how good an argument is made. The only thing one can do is reject their own political rigidity and tribalism and hope that will inspire others to do the same.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 10:41 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Blueracer

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I agree with you all government is the problem.


originally posted by: dfnj2015
Government is the ONLY ANSWER.



You contradict yourself and make absolutely no sense. Why are you trying to tell us what to believe?


Why would you presume there is only one kind of government. Government is the problem. Government is the answer. Both can be true.


False. If government=problem then government cannot=solution.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: Lumenari

Owning a business is tough too, you have to pay for your own insurance, save for your retirement, no paid days off or vacation, sick days, taxes can be a hurdle, can't call in etc etc I have several family members that own businesses and they have to work just as hard as anyone else. Takes years and years to get your business off the ground, takes capital, hard work and some luck and even then not all businesses pan out. Respect to those that make it work and pay their employees fairly.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
Maybe the problems of our country are NOT the people on the bottom. Maybe the problem is the people at the top rigging the system in their favor.

Or maybe it is the faceless, unelected beurorats in the middle - you know, the swamp Trump is trying to drain?


You know the billionaires giving money to lobbyists.

This is indeed a problem. Lobbying needs to be declared as what it is - bribery - and outlawed.


What we have is the kind of communism that only helps the CEO, billionaires, and corporations. What we have is CORPORATE COMMUNISM.

No, what we have is a form of fascism - that is what the unholy alliance between large corporations and government is.

But yeah, it is a big problem.


What I disagree with all you right wingers about is how we solve the corporate communism problem we have in this country. Smaller government only strengthens the corporate communists and their single party system. The way I see it, based on what FDR did after the Great Depression, the answer to fighting the corporate communists is MORE government not less. Government is the ONLY ANSWER.

This is the fallacy. It isn't 'more' or 'bigger' government that is needed. What is needed is much smaller government - one which only acts in accordance with their delegated powers - and, with respect to this issue, a few lucid, intelligent, well-thought out laws that specifically address the main problem areas: monopolies/monopolistic behavior, privileges for legal fictions that exceed the Rights of the People themselves, and the lack of accountability for those controlling these large corporations.


Just as I predicted in 2016 after Trump got elected I said NOTHING WILL CHANGE. So how is the, "Drain the swamp" project coming along? Just as I suspected, NOTHING HAS CHANGED!

Really? What world are you living in?

I got a huge tax cut, even though this round 1 tax cut bill was primarily aimed at small/medium businesses (I can't wait for round 2, aimed at individuals). Stock market is doing great. Record low unemployment. Record high employment and more importantly, record high wage increases. Illegal immigration is being addressed, etc etc.

And all of Trumps accomplishments are in spite of Congress (the dems) and the deep state fighting him every inch of the way (the reason immigration reform is going so slowly).


I knew Obama would fail.

Yeah, that was a given.


I knew Trump would fail. This is because I'm not a moron.

Ummm... are you sure about that? I mean, you are wrong, actually. Trump not only hasn't failed, he has succeeded bigly.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: okrian

The right believes only lazy drug addicts become homeless. Not people who lost their house when the market tanked. Or the people who couldn't afford rent because prices have doubled. Or the people laid off by corporations whose CEOs took millions and millions in bonuses while firing thousands of employees.


The vast majority of chronic homeless are so because of mental issues (need to be institutionalized) or drug addiction. They cannot function in society. No amount of free housing, robust job market, free food, etc or anything will get these people off the streets.

While there are cases of people who wind up homeless due to bad circumstances, it is usually a temporary situation and not really what people mean by "homelessness".



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: tanstaafl

Amazing he claims lobbying a corrupt government is a problem but then his solution is to give government even more power! You can't make this sh*t up...

Men are corruptible. Government is run by men. The easiest way to keep corruption in check is to keep government as small as possible.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: okrian
Why is the right always so predictable in it's inability to actually look at the complexity and desperation of the situation. If you aren't even on the ladder, you can't climb rungs.
I was homeless once.
Now I own a business and am doing just fine.
If I could do it anyone could.
America provides the ladder.
Some of us just have more rungs to climb.

What you are saying is perfectly true and at the same time wealth inequality in this country obscenely unfair. Why is it only one way with you. Yes, I get it, there are some people who don't try enough. But that's not the only facet to the economic experience of people living in this country.

Wealth inequality is a marketing tool used to sell socialism to the feeble-minded and naive.


I disagree with your opinion. I think the following needs to be addressed:

"According to the Federal Reserve over the last 30 years the top 1% have seen a 21 trillion increase in their wealth. And the bottom 50% have seen a 900 billion decrease in their wealth."

How much wealth concentrated into the fewest number of hands is enough in your mind?

The 3 Richest Americans Hold More Wealth Than Bottom 50% Of The Country

Disney heir on CEO's $66m pay: 'No one on the freaking planet is worth that'

"Iger made $65.6m in 2018 – 1,424 times the median salary of a Disney employee."

If we do nothing it will only get worse. How much wealth inequality is enough for you?



A few fallacies...

First, off the top 1% is not a fixed class of people. Many people find themselves in the top 1% and many people leave the top 1%. Go ask any business owner whose fortunes may have changed and they are facing bankruptcy.

Second, the top 1% typically understands that you have to invest your money. While not everyone is in the top 1%, the reality is that more than 50% of American's hold stocks/bonds either directly or indirectly through 401ks/pensions/mutual funds, etc.

Third, CEO comp is approved by the Board of Directors and shareholders. Most of their comp is actually in stock options, not salaries. So they aren't "paid" but earn it through increasing the value of the company to shareholders. We can argue if the pay packages are excessive, but at the end of the day, private companies can pay whatever they want to executives. Lebron James probably makes 2,000 time more than the lowest paid employee on his team. No one complains about that. Will Smith probably makes 2,000 times more than the lowest paid person on a movie set.

There will always be wealth inequality. ALWAYS. We all aren't equal. We all have different skill sets.

When the Disney heiress gives up her entire fortune to start at ZERO, then she can talk. Otherwise, she is just a SJW running her mouth while being born with a silver spoon.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 12:52 PM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

Your argument is exactly what Henry Giroux was saying in this interview:




posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

The amount of time you spend b!tching about other people's money is astounding. By all means, if it is so easy to get rich, please go start your own business and pay people what you want and give your fortune away. Please show us how it is done.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 12:57 PM
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originally posted by: Blueracer

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Blueracer

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I agree with you all government is the problem.


originally posted by: dfnj2015
Government is the ONLY ANSWER.

You contradict yourself and make absolutely no sense. Why are you trying to tell us what to believe?

Why would you presume there is only one kind of government. Government is the problem. Government is the answer. Both can be true.

False. If government=problem then government cannot=solution.


There are laws that enslave men. There are laws that set them free. Government is the only answer because the problems with our country come from having legislation that is in favor of capital accumulation by a small few. It's doesn't have to to be this way. We could certainly have public policies in place that prevent people from gaming the system in their favor. We could certainly have public policies in place for ensuring free-markets with competition to wring out the inefficiencies of exorbitant CEO pay. We could certainly enforce monopoly laws. The problem we have now is government is run by organized crime and the laws are purposely rigged so the American people get shaken down.


edit on 11-11-2019 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Blueracer

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Blueracer

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I agree with you all government is the problem.


originally posted by: dfnj2015
Government is the ONLY ANSWER.

You contradict yourself and make absolutely no sense. Why are you trying to tell us what to believe?

Why would you presume there is only one kind of government. Government is the problem. Government is the answer. Both can be true.

False. If government=problem then government cannot=solution.


There are laws that enslave men. There are laws that set them free. Government is the only answer because the problems with our country come from having legislation that is in favor of capital accumulation by a small few. It's doesn't have to to be this way. We could certainly have public policies in place that prevent people from gaming the system in their favor. We could certainly have public policies in place for ensuring free-markets with competition to wring out the inefficiencies of exorbitant CEO pay. We could certainly enforce monopoly laws. The problem we have now is government is run by organized crime and the laws are purposely rigged so the American people get shaken down.



Why do we need laws about CEO pay? CEO's are private individuals and the shareholders determine their pay.

Do we need laws to govern athlete pay? What about actor pay?

You aren't making any sense. If government is run by organized crime, why would you want to give them more power?




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