It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

What's Behind Socialism's New Appeal Among Americans?

page: 3
2
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 07:03 AM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66

Market forces are crushing them. In many places unions are dying out.

Never forget, I spent my time as a teacher in a classroom and as part of a union. I got to experience firsthand how it operates, and it made me feel slimy. The only activity I saw on its part while I was there were teachers meetings that were nothing about how best to serve our kids in the classroom and everything about how this or that action being taken was violating our contract and aggressive electioneering every cycle.




posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 07:05 AM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Market forces are crushing them. In many places unions are dying out.

Never forget, I spent my time as a teacher in a classroom and as part of a union. I got to experience firsthand how it operates, and it made me feel slimy. The only activity I saw on its part while I was there were teachers meetings that were nothing about how best to serve our kids in the classroom and everything about how this or that action being taken was violating our contract and aggressive electioneering every cycle.


Right. I’m not discounting your personal experience. You brought that into the discussion.

Let’s back up. Socialism started as a Worker’s movement. You have voiced support for hard working people.

As such, are you opposed to corporate welfare or not?



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 07:08 AM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66

And I explained to you where it comes from and why.

Do you support the notion of a simplified tax code like the flat tax which would disallow such things?



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 07:09 AM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015



Maybe the people who can most afford it can help pay a little more than they currently do to help the people on the bottom:


Question for you...

for years politicians have said we are going to make the rich pay more and help the middle and lower class... for years the rich haven't paid much more and the middle class has..

care to explain why I should believe these same congress folks this time...



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 07:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

And I explained to you where it comes from and why.

Do you support the notion of a simplified tax code like the flat tax which would disallow such things?


You didn’t explain anything. You did what you commonly do and gish galloped.

I don’t support any tax code that supersedes what is allowed for in the US Constitution.

Now, care to answer my question or not?

Are you in favor of corporate welfare such as tax breaks or not? It’s starting to look like you’re evading a very simple question.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 07:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

And I explained to you where it comes from and why.

Do you support the notion of a simplified tax code like the flat tax which would disallow such things?


You didn’t explain anything. You did what you commonly do and gish galloped.

I don’t support any tax code that supersedes what is allowed for in the US Constitution.

Now, care to answer my question or not?

Are you in favor of corporate welfare such as tax breaks or not? It’s starting to look like you’re evading a very simple question.


I'm not evading the question.

What you call corporate welfare grew up from the idea of sin taxes. You know what they is, yes? The tobacco tax is one of the most blatant forms we have. A sin tax is a punitive tax designed to modify behavior. So they slap high taxes on tobacco with the stated intent of getting people to stop using it by making it too expensive.

Taxes become the carrot and the stick.

Put higher taxes on things you don't like and give tax breaks for the things you do like.

Over time, this has become a system of political patronage where some politicians became the patrons of some economic sectors and always seek to write them breaks or exemptions, etc., and other become the enemies of certain sectors. The political game has always been to put your patrons in charge if possible.

The only way to end what you don't like is to erase the ability for the tax code to be manipulated in that way. Hence something like a flat tax where everyone and every business entity pays the same flat percentage in tax. The simpler the rule is, the less ability there is create a system that can be tampered with in the way it is now.

Expecting the system we have as it stands to be reformed in any meaningful way is a fool's errand.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 07:41 AM
link   
a reply to: ketsuko

One aspect of socialism is generally thought of as government controlling the means of production, i.e. industry. Corporations.

Government controls corporations via tax breaks and various economic incentives

Are you in favor of that or against it?



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 07:57 AM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66

So, you can read my post about a flat tax, and you have no clue where I stand on tax reform?



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 08:26 AM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Just curious, are all you folks so virulently anti-socialism also against corporate welfare and tax-breaks for religious corporations?

If so, why? Either of those are far more socialistic than say ... food stamps or Medicare.


I believe socialism should stay with the private non-profit charities. My reasoning is that they don't force anyone, their funding is all voluntarily donated for the social cause. So a tax break for them is acceptable.

Corporate welfare is not acceptable since they are a for-profit entity. In a capitalist market, competition should rule. If they succeed or fail, should be based on their being responsible in their business dealings.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 08:28 AM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

So, you can read my post about a flat tax, and you have no clue where I stand on tax reform?


I'm against corporate welfare in any form including religious corporations.

There, see how easy it is?



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 08:31 AM
link   
a reply to: CynConcepts

I'd like to see all tax on income go away for everyone eventually. Barring that I don't have as many issues with truly charitable organizations as I do with say oil companies.

100% on your last paragraph. Couldn't have said it better.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 08:39 AM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Just curious, are all you folks so virulently anti-socialism also against corporate welfare and tax-breaks for religious corporations?

If so, why? Either of those are far more socialistic than say ... food stamps or Medicare.


Yes. Against it all.

Next question.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 08:41 AM
link   
a reply to: Edumakated

Consistent.

Well said.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 08:56 AM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

So, you can read my post about a flat tax, and you have no clue where I stand on tax reform?


I'm against corporate welfare in any form including religious corporations.

There, see how easy it is?


I'm against religious exemptions too. Churches should be taxed like any other Corp especially since so many of them are nothing but hustles for preachers.

Simplifying the tax code to a flat tax with no deductions is the easiest way to get rid of the political cronyism since politicians wont be able to hand out favors using the tax code.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 09:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

So, you can read my post about a flat tax, and you have no clue where I stand on tax reform?


I'm against corporate welfare in any form including religious corporations.

There, see how easy it is?


I'm against religious exemptions too. Churches should be taxed like any other Corp especially since so many of them are nothing but hustles for preachers.

Simplifying the tax code to a flat tax with no deductions is the easiest way to get rid of the political cronyism since politicians wont be able to hand out favors using the tax code.


Flat tax might be a step in the right direction, but I’m ready to see income taxes for all just go away.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 09:58 AM
link   
I think socialism is popular because many people are never presented with a counter viewpoint. You also have a lot of propaganda from mainstream media and educational institutions.

I don't think most people who support socialism are dumb / stupid, but they've just never actually really thought in depth about the positions they are taking.

People also tend to think emotionally instead of logically.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 10:00 AM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

So, you can read my post about a flat tax, and you have no clue where I stand on tax reform?


I'm against corporate welfare in any form including religious corporations.

There, see how easy it is?


I'm against religious exemptions too. Churches should be taxed like any other Corp especially since so many of them are nothing but hustles for preachers.

Simplifying the tax code to a flat tax with no deductions is the easiest way to get rid of the political cronyism since politicians wont be able to hand out favors using the tax code.


Flat tax might be a step in the right direction, but I’m ready to see income taxes for all just go away.



I would actually support the abolishment of all income taxes. However, I like a small income tax for all people because I think everyone needs skin in the game. People need to understand how what they vote for affects them directly.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 10:06 AM
link   
a reply to: Edumakated

I’ve worked it around in my head for years, and I’ve realized that government is just not the option.

Hopefully, by the time we get rid of the income tax, the governments will be starved back to their Constitutional limits.

Ah, dreams.



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 10:07 AM
link   

originally posted by: Edumakated
I think socialism is popular because many people are never presented with a counter viewpoint. You also have a lot of propaganda from mainstream media and educational institutions.

I don't think most people who support socialism are dumb / stupid, but they've just never actually really thought in depth about the positions they are taking.

People also tend to think emotionally instead of logically.


Both adherents and opponents of “socialism” seem to miss the point. The biggest issue with such systems is that they require massive authoritarian intervention.

THAT’s the issue, not per se where the money comes from or what we do with it. (Of course, that matters as well.)



posted on Nov, 11 2019 @ 10:16 AM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Edumakated

I’ve worked it around in my head for years, and I’ve realized that government is just not the option.

Hopefully, by the time we get rid of the income tax, the governments will be starved back to their Constitutional limits.

Ah, dreams.


Your account been hacked?




top topics



 
2
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join