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Alabama man arrested for slashing baby Trump Balloon .

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posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:02 AM
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a reply to: Fallingdown


Explain why no one has the right to be heard ?

Because if they did, I would be required by law to listen to Don Lemon and Anderson Cooper. People have the right to speak their minds, but that does not grant a right to force people to hear them. Ergo, no right to be heard.

There is also no right to destroy property trying to be heard. I understand Hoyt Hutchinson's anger (and have even stated I would be tempted to assist had I been there), but his actions were illegal. There's a good chance so were the actions of those trying to fly the balloon. I cannot imagine the City of Tuscaloosa granting a permit to protest to anyone around Bryant-Denny Stadium that day.

TheRedneck




posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:08 AM
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a reply to: Fallingdown

No, you're simply still conflating the act of speaking and the process of being heard as one and the same. Your confusion was pointed out and explained back on page 11.

The circle keeps spinning...
edit on 11/12/19 by redmage because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:08 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

So rape victims don’t have a right to be heard ?

Children don’t have a right to be heard on abuse

Defendants in court and their lawyers don’t have a right to be heard? Which is the position I feel I’m in at the moment .

The MeToo movement doesn’t have a right to be heard ?

In all those cases you hear the phrase right to be heard repeated over and over .

That’s nonsense her position is a genetic fallacy. I rarely if ever use the F word but there it is .

She’s trying to avoid the argument by taking my intent out of context .

IE a technicality by someone who I’ve proven to be untrustworthy .



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:11 AM
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a reply to: redmage


They likely had the privilege to be on that property through obtaining a permit to demonstrate at that location and time, but a privilege is not the same as a right, and no one was forced to stand in front of them listening.

No.

You do not understand Alabama. This was the biggest event to hit Tuscaloosa in years. The entire city (heck, pretty much the entire northern half of the state) revolves around Alabama football; Nick Saban is considered a minor deity and has more political power than the mayor. No one in Tuscaloosa is going to jeopardize that by permitting a political protest at the biggest game of the year. The school even stated at one point that anyone even attempting to protest would be kicked out and their tickets forfeited, including the remainder of any season tickets (yes, I know they apologized for that on social media, but I promise you the policy was not rescinded).

I guarantee you there was no permit issued for a protest against Donald Trump.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: redmage

Nope unless you’re not only against children you’re also against women, rape victims and due process. You’re trying to use a silly play on words .

I used the term figuratively you’re dissecting it literally .

The proof is in the pudding . If you truly had a position you would answer this question .

The word heard is nowhere in it .

Is this your position ?

“So your position is if you break a law in the process of expressing yourself or giving your opinion.

Your position/opinion/ expression shouldn’t be acknowledged by anyone “.

Now I suppose you’re going to say something like it isn’t a question or make up some other excuse .



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:14 AM
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a reply to: Fallingdown


Are you being sarcastic or do you actually understand that Babel ?

Is it a play on words ?

Is it a technicality on my whole position ?

You I’ll listen to .

I think it is a semantic argument to some degree, but your position on being heard is technically incorrect. There is a right to speak, but not a right to be heard. Being heard indicates a right to have others at least listen, which does not exist.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:14 AM
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a reply to: Fallingdown

No, not one of the groups you listed has a right to be heard. No one in this country has a right to be heard. Period.

They all have a right to speak, they all have a right to defend themselves in front of a jury if a defendant in a criminal trial.

But there is no first amendment right to be heard.



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:23 AM
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originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: TheRedneck

So rape victims don’t have a right to be heard ?

Children don’t have a right to be heard on abuse


They have a right so speak out, but no one can be forced to listen.


Defendants in court and their lawyers don’t have a right to be heard?


They have a right to speak, but their right to remain silent is most often the prudent choice there.


The MeToo movement doesn’t have a right to be heard ?


They have the right to speak, but no one can be forced to listen.



That’s nonsense her position is a genetic fallacy.


No, you're misconstruing the context/moving the goalpost. Hoyt (the guy this thread is about) was not denied any Constitutional rights as you were suggesting earlier. There is no "right to be heard" in the Constitution.


She’s trying to avoid the argument by taking my intent out of context .


No, you're shifting from a Constitutional Rights discussion earlier, to a progressive vernacular discussion now.


IE a technicality by someone who I’ve proven to be untrustworthy .


I've shown at least 3 lies that you've told in this thread alone, and you even admitted to 2 of them. You haven't legitimately shown me lying at all. You would be the habitual liar in this thread who is proven untrustworthy. Not I.



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:25 AM
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a reply to: Grambler


You dont have to listen to them. If its private property such as inside a sporting venure, the owners of the venue have a right to kick them out.

But you as an annoyed attendee do not have that right, or the right to damage their property.

Ah, but I do have to see them if that balloon flies over the stadium. There is no way I can not see it.

If I attend any entertainment event, I do have the right to expect the evening's entertainment to be free from things that would render it unenjoyable. I obtained that right by paying for the privilege of attending the event. For instance, if I choose to see a ballet and in the middle of it someone starts playing heavy metal at such a volume it becomes distracting, and the owner of the venue does not immediately kick them out, I am entitled to ask for a refund because the entertainment was not delivered as expected and advertised. In such an event, another patron smashing the offending CD player would still be illegal, but understandable... especially if that patron were someone specifically visiting because all they had heard for three years was loud heavy metal music.

At a football game, a large part of the event occurs outside the stadium as well... the tailgate parties. There are already two groups of opposing fans shouting insults at each other; introducing a political division into an event where State Troopers are in attendance already specifically to avoid violence is an act of pure sabotage.

So yes, I do, by virtue of the advertised and paid for venue, certainly have the right to be afforded reasonable protection from anything that would reasonably interfere with my peaceful enjoyment of the game.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:25 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

That wasn’t what I meant . I repeatedly said nobody had to listen .

So I just spent 12 pages trying to speak rationally to someone playing semantics .

Which explains why she can’t give her real thoughts.

For the same reason she couldn’t answer any other question I asked .

She can’t give an honest answer .

I’m even more disappointed by a few people on this thread .



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:26 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

If that's the case in that local jurisdiction, then they must have been pretty peacefully assembling because it's pretty simple to shut something like that down if they were disturbing the peace.



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:29 AM
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a reply to: redmage


They have a right so speak out, but no one can be forced to listen.


Yup I’ve said that and you knew that wasn’t what I meant .

Just a play on my words. Only someone whose position is defeated pull’s # like that .

Are you ever going to give your real opinion ?


OK yes I agree nobody has to listen , you’ve proven that point .

Now what are your thoughts on this ?

I expect you to sidestep it again because a leopard never changes their spots .

“So is it your position that if someone breaks a law in the process of expressing their self or giving their opinion.

Their position/opinion/ expression shouldn’t be acknowledged by anyone“.



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:30 AM
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a reply to: Fallingdown


So rape victims don’t have a right to be heard ?

Children don’t have a right to be heard on abuse

No, they don't. They have the right to speak, and law enforcement is supposedly required to consider their complaint, but there is no general right for someone even in that position to be heard.


Defendants in court and their lawyers don’t have a right to be heard? Which is the position I feel I’m in at the moment .

There is a separate right to confront one's accuser and be afforded legal counsel... these imply the right to have a judge/jury hear their case. That is different from an overall right to be heard.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:31 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I disagree completely

For one, you do not have to pay to tailgate outside us venue. If you had a ticket, you would be more than welcome to enter the venue so as to not hear the protestors

Last time I tailgated a sporting event I had homeless people aggressively demand money, Did I have the right to demand the stadium return my money? No, they had no control over that

I get it, I am tired of politics butting into sports as well. But you do not have the right to not hear people protesting outside of a venue because you bought a ticket

Has this occurred inside the venue during the game, and the stadium refused to remove the protestors, then perhaps you would have a point



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: Fallingdown

Playing semantics?

You are literally saying a person has the right to be heard, but not the right to be listened to, and you are accusing others of playing semantics?



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:33 AM
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a reply to: Fallingdown


That wasn’t what I meant . I repeatedly said nobody had to listen .

I know; that is why I used the word "semantic." I believe you are meaning the same thing, but the word you are using has implications that contradict your intended meaning. To be heard means others listen... so a right to be heard would mean others were required to listen.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:33 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

I’ve moved past her nonsense technically reply .



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:36 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

So she purposefully misinterpreted what she knew I meant in a grammar Nazi fashion .

Got it.

I wonder why she won’t answer the question now that it’s reworded to fit her parameters ?



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:38 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

In fact let me ask you about an ongoing situation

Did you hear about the nba and it’s star capitulating to China?

I’ll assume you did, but if not let me know and I’ll discuss it

At this point, protestors are showing up to games holding signs and wearing shirts that say free hint Kong; some even heckling players like lebron for his stance

If I go to an nba game, and a person is allowed to stand there with a sign making this political protest, am I entitled to my money back?



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 12:39 AM
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a reply to: Fallingdown

No, you've simply circled back again to your "right to be heard" nonsense after it's been explained numerous times that no such "right" exists.



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