A closer look at Trumps next war and the history behind it

a reply to: byteshertz

War on drugs my arse.

You are as well trying to fight sleep.

Supply and demand is what it is.

originally posted by: missed_gear

originally posted by:

There are more ways of dealing with the cartels inside Mexico than direct targeting as many mentioned above...

I do imagine that certain channels have opened without overt, direct US military directives exposed.

underwerks

Good luck trying to convince anyone here about the reality of the situation though. They seem to live in some 1980’s action movie version of how they think things are.

You mean "they" as in those which beat down the Mexican military when cartel boy was captured? Or "they" whom just slaughtered the recent family members in question? or "they" that murdered a Mexican special task force officer in broad daylight (over 150 bullets) just a few days ago? There is more to the "theys" activities and percentage of 37,000 murders in Mexico alone this year. I could add more, but what I state is easy to find in recent news....but Trump is bad for offering assistance?

On that note, the use of the word 'war' does not always mean boots, tanks, planes and ships etal.

mg

I mean “they” in the sense of everyone in this thread who thinks they can bomb or fight their way out of this problem.

That’s not reality. I’d think the futility of a War on Drugs would be apparent to everyone here by now. But since Donald Trump mentioned it, it seems people are falling all over themselves to explain why it would work this time around.

I think legalization is the only way to deal with it. Taking the profit out of it is the fastest way to hurt the cartels.

I also think we need to deal harshly with users. No demand for drugs, no cartels.

Drugs like business is a demand driven industry. You can supply all you want but if there is no demand then it wont matter.

a reply to: Edumakated

As long as we are also deal harshly with the alcohol tobacco and sugar junkies in the same manner.

I would love to see that magic wand you are going to wave that's going to change or destroy the demand for narcotics.

It must be some size.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Edumakated

As long as we are also deal harshly with the alcohol tobacco and sugar junkies in the same manner.

I would love to see that magic wand you are going to wave that's going to change or destroy the demand for narcotics.

It must be some size.

Alcohol and tobacco generally arent as devastating. I favor legalization but I also want the losers driving demand to be responsible for the havoc they are creating.

I say cut off all narcan and let people OD. I know it is harsh but at some point we have to say enough is enough. If people want to kill themselves then by all means let them.

a reply to: Edumakated

That's just not true.

Alcohol, Tobacco, and sugar contribute to more deaths in both our respective nations than narcotics ever have or wiil do.

They are far more devastating short of Fentanyl ffs!

Just ask any Doctor.

They don't make a pill for what ails a significant percentage of our respective populations.

As to havoc, we don't need drugs to create that just monies and power.

Society cannot continue to cater to drug addicts. The cost is too high. We simply cannot afford it. Homeless. Crime. Rehab.

I know I'm being harsh but I live in an area where these losers are walking around like zombies. I cant even take my kids to the library without encountering one of these wacked out addicts. We had one OD in the bathroom at the library (in the kids section no less).

Just tired of it. No excuse for this kind of behavior.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Edumakated

That's just not true.

Alcohol, Tobacco, and sugar contribute to more deaths in both our respective nations than narcotics ever have or wiil do.

They are far more devastating short of Fentanyl ffs!

Just ask any Doctor.

They don't make a pill for what ails a significant percentage of our respective populations.

As to havoc, we don't need drugs to create that just monies and power.

How many people are homeless because they cant get a Jolly Rancher? Sure, you'd sell your kids if you cant get a cup of coffee.

Yes, people die from being fat asses and lack of exercise but that is hardly the same as being a zombified heroin addict.

a reply to: Edumakated

See Alcohol, Tobacco, and sugar.

When have we not catered to drug addicts?

The excuse is people take drugs to numb the pain of reality, no matter there reasons which are vast and numerous as the pebbles on a beach.

Seen plenty of overdoses and death down to drugs having played at being a part-time junkie for the better part of my late teens and early 20s, luckily i managed to see sense and come out the other end.

Don't hate the player mate, hate the game.

a reply to: Edumakated

People become homeless for a variety and a multitude of reasons other than drug use.

As to selling their kids, well who is buying there services one wonders?

It's exactly the same as being a zombified heroin addict, alcohol and tobacco use that is.

Just ask any of them that canny get there legal fix.

a reply to: darkbake

May have infiltrated the govt of Mexico?

The evidence of just that is rather concrete.

The southern border needs to be secured...not sure how anyone can disagree with that. But to secure only one, leaving the others unsecured is, of course, folly.

Invading Mexico? No. Not only no, but Hell no. Nor bombing...as that's much too haphazard, and likely to kill as many innocent as guilty.

Legalization wouldn't do any good.

Because the cartels would just target retailers.

Best way to deal with cartels is nuke them from orbit.

a reply to: Edumakated

Society cannot continue to cater to drug addicts. The cost is too high. We simply cannot afford it. Homeless. Crime. Rehab.

Maybe the real issue is people like yourself trying to legislate your morality on to others? I think the reason for why drugs are such a big problem is because people with your same attitude have been making the laws concerning it for almost a century. And where has it gotten us?

Right where we are. The problems you see walking to the library aren’t because of people being soft on drugs, they’re because of people being hard on drug users. Drug use isn’t near the problem it is when it’s treated as a health issue instead of a criminal one.

What has almost a century of being hard on drug users gotten us? Exactly what you see walking down the street.

a reply to: byteshertz

watched it but my problem with Vice is they aren't looking for the truth they are agenda based and have the story completed before it starts.

This was no different. However, it was clearly a Romney hit piece which I welcome as I never cared for him but it was also biased.

1. Vice tries to make it like republicans and mitt romney is against immigrants which is not true.

Note I'm not a republican, nor did I ever support romney, nor did I vote for trump, and I think the trump wall is the most costly and least effective method to keep illegals out. I think going after the American business that hire them is the most effective and least costly method by taking away their incentives to come here illegally. If after that the wall is still needed than have it , but I bet it wont be needed just like its not needed in the Canadian border, but thats another thread.

However, the key word I used was ILLEGAL, and that is problem with the left and vice documentary. While I don't care for Romney or the republican party , the truth is that they are trying to keep out and keep from rewarding ILLEGALS not just immigrants. The LEFT and VICE has an agenda and hence why they never mention ILLEGAL, so for that I say F them and their BS , since clearly they aren't looking to fix or help immigrants.

2. Rewarding illegals is the dumbest thing possible as it will only encourage wait for it wait for it more illegals to come illegally. That goes for how I think building the wall is bs ,because you are not taking away their incentives to come so they will continue to come via other means. Its an uphill battle.

3. No doubt the C i a and other American entities are not only benefiting from the drug war but are encouraging it. However, at the end of the day it is Mexicans killing Mexicans In MEXICO. They need to fix up their Sh1t and not put the blame on the US or expect the US to fix it for them. I came from Cuba and you can blame the Americans all you want for Cuba but at the end of the day it was Cubans prosecuting Cubans on Cuban soil and the only way to fix that is for the CUBANS to fix it.


One of the problem with Sh1tty countries such as Latin America and Cuba is the non existence of the middle class that keeps things in check, and rampant in your face corruption. Its all an extreme , the extreme wealthy and powerful and the extreme poor and dependents on the system.

So if you want to fix mexico, then Mexico needs to get a strong middleclass and they do that by hiring non cartel officials and protecting them from the cartels and stop blaming others for their problems. I'm not saying its easy by any means what so ever, but if you don't at-least accept that the problem is in your country than you aren't ever going to fix anything. As long as you keep blaming the wrong country you will be trying to fix not only the wrong problem , but you won't have the ability to fix it anyways because its not your country.

That is my biggest problem with the left and vice. They don't care about fixing anything and they do the same things with race and sexism in this country.

The lefts strategy to fix racism is idiotic at best and only causes more racial tension by being racist in itself by stereotyping and blaming whites for the problem in the minority communities and labeling minorities as victims.

In essence the left purposely categorize whites as villains and minorities as victims and nobody likes to be labeled as either. So you end up with hate,intolerance, fear, and wanting revenge on both sides. Its a strategy that is only effective in keeping the people fighting with each-other and intolerant of each other.

You see it in everything BOTH parties do, they split people into 2 categories to create a US vs THEM mentality with no middle ground as a highly effective means to keep the people fighting and distracted while the Politicians on BOTH sides and lobbyist rob the people blind of their rights and money.

a reply to: Edumakated

If TPTB were ever to legalize narcotics it would introduce a measure of quality control.

Nevermind somewhat negate the criminal enterprises that surround the production and distribution of the stuff.

Then there are the literally trillions of dollars to be had in taxation.

Which could be used to fund proper drug rehabilitation facilities for the people that require them, nevermind pay off the better part of the national debt in the first year alone.

So that will never happen, not whilst your alphabet agencies and cartels run the show and pocket the profits, and the bankers would never allow such, just down to the revenue that would be generated on the books as opposed to off.

Need to pick the wars you can win I'm afraid.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Society cannot continue to cater to drug addicts. The cost is too high. We simply cannot afford it. Homeless. Crime. Rehab.

We are currently fostering and raising the neighbors twin teenage daughters after the mother passed away and the father is an alcoholic with some drug use.

Its really sad how drugs , alcohol , and mental issues take over the people with no fix in sight. In the case of the father I do feel bad for him because he was clearly raised by abusive parents and was never taught to cope or be responsible. He goes through stages of being sober but when he is sober he clearly shows signs of mental issues and becomes very angry.

I honestly don't know how you could realistically fix these type of people? We have tried to help him and guide him but as they say no good dead goes unpunished hits the nail right on the head. At one point he was getting 4K a month flat and clear with no house payments or big expenses, very little responsibility, and working a decent job . He completely sabotaged himself despite people trying to help him and guide him . If there is a bad decision to be made he will take it just about every time.

He has been in and out of the system in both rehab programs and jail, and personally uses the ER as his own personal rehab center. Every time he decides he wants to get sober he calls 911 to pick him up. They even know him by name . He stays in the hospital till recovery and never pays a penny. Rinse and repeat the cycle every other month or so.

They are a big burden on the system that nobody discusses or is realistically trying to address and to be honest not sure that we can.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Edumakated

If TPTB were ever to legalize narcotics it would introduce a measure of quality control.

Nevermind somewhat negate the criminal enterprises that surround the production and distribution of the stuff.

Then there are the literally trillions of dollars to be had in taxation.

I agree with that and no doubt it will decrease the violence and unintentional overdose.

Which could be used to fund proper drug rehabilitation facilities for the people that require them, nevermind pay off the better part of the national debt in the first year alone.

This I'm not so sure about. A gov't riddled with conflict of interest will never fix a problem they are benefiting from and created in the first place.

Also having seen first hand how addiction and mental issues has effected a once neighbor , i see very little success coming from rehab for a large part of the people with mental issue and drug issues.

These people aren't capable of making the right decisions or even taking care of themselve, they need constant supervision. As I tell my wife about the neighbor, he mentally stopped evolving at the age of 12 and you have to treat him and take care of him as a 12 year old.

For many of these people there will never be a cure with rehab. They need rehab along with a full time baby sitting service. They are children that will never grow up in need of constant adult supervision.

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: Edumakated

Society cannot continue to cater to drug addicts. The cost is too high. We simply cannot afford it. Homeless. Crime. Rehab.

Maybe the real issue is people like yourself trying to legislate your morality on to others? I think the reason for why drugs are such a big problem is because people with your same attitude have been making the laws concerning it for almost a century. And where has it gotten us?

Right where we are. The problems you see walking to the library aren’t because of people being soft on drugs, they’re because of people being hard on drug users. Drug use isn’t near the problem it is when it’s treated as a health issue instead of a criminal one.

What has almost a century of being hard on drug users gotten us? Exactly what you see walking down the street.

It isn't about legislating morality. If some loser wants to throw their life away then that's their business. I really dont give two f's what people do.

Where I draw the line is when peoples personal decisions start affecting me.

I support legalization but I also dont believe society should be coddling these people either. I certainly dont want resources being diverted to them.

In this day and age, there is no reason other than stupidity to use drugs. We all know the effects.

Yeah, some people have tough lives. I get it but we cant keep making excuses for these people.

a reply to: interupt42

Well, drug use breeds mental health issues, that's also a fact, so do a hell of a lot of other aspects in life.

Like i said through "proper drug rehabilitation facilities" and not just the bandaid for a brain tumor type establishments that exist in some places.

They need jobs, homes, and a will not to return to there previous way of life or addiction once they kick the stuff, else there apt to be back to square one in no time sharp.

That being said i know Plumbers, Gas Engineers, and Electricians that have her'oin and coc'aine addictions that function perfectly adequately in life.

Not that i completely condone or would ever encourage anyone to take drugs any more than i would advise them to take up smoking or drink all the same, but they manage to exist without completely losing the plot.

a reply to: andy06shake

What are you going to do with people that can't get of the drugs or that have mental issues that can't ake care of themselves.

Those are the problem and rehab doesn't appear to work for many of them. Throwing money isn't going to fix it