Why do CPR on a dead man? EDKH

I've dropped this on a few threads and I'm hoping I'm just misunderstanding protocol but I'm still baffled.

The photos of epstein being wheeled out, of which there are 2 afai, seem strange. The main photo everyone thinks about is the fake ear photo. (I'm convinced this means nothing and has been debunked, it's a mirror image of the other ear apparently).

The other photo however?
They are wheeling him out while using a breathing apparatus.

How often after death is cpr effective?

Is there a non tinfoil hat explanation for this?

www.thesun.co.uk...

The link just has the photos I'm referring to. As it's the sun I would suggest ignoring any of the writing. Of course tha same could be said about me.

On the other hand performing CPR on a person who's not clinically dead wouldn't make much sense.

I had a cardiac arrest in 1985. CPR was performed by the paramedics ( who were already there when I arrested after having been in arrhythmia, which is why 911 was called ) and I was resuscitated in the ER.

CPR is performed until an MD calls a time of death, which I believe is protocol - even if those present feel like it's a lost cause. I'm sure there are other guidelines as they obviously wouldn't perform CPR on a cadaver that's obviously been expired for many days or longer.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Dead is not a fixed definition. You can appear to be dead, and still brought back. You're not actually dead until brain death is established and a qualified person calls time of death. I've heard of CPR being done for almost an hour before the person was called.

a reply to: Hefficide

That's what confuses me, Baden seemed to suggest he'd been dead for a while.

It seems they were doing cpr on a cadaver.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

They probably were, but with a very few exceptions depending on local laws, an EMT can't call time of death. So they have to make life saving efforts until someone that is qualified tells them to stop, and declares them dead.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

"Awhile" is the caveat. An hour or two isn't enough time for obvious decomposition to set in so without cement time frames a first responder, in that situation, wouldn't know if they were dealing with a person who'd been down for 2 hours or 10 minutes and would be obligated to approach things in the same way.

After reaching hospital doctors would be able to make such determinations as they're both more qualified and would have access to more information via testing ( body temp, electrical activity in the body etc ).

a reply to: Hefficide
Aaaah OK, that makes sense.

I'm not taking the tinfoil hat off quite yet but essentially are you saying it can be a decapitated head and they'll still try to help until the boss tells them not to.

Probably the right strategy, if it works once in a million it's the right thing to do.

So there is a couple of things here:

First off, most Paramedics will continue CPR unless its obviously dead till they get to a higher level of care (ER). There is no percentage in being wrong. It also depends on the protocol of the county etc if Medics can pronounce at scene or requires an MD. Here in California as a transport nurse I can pronounce but a hospital based nurse cannot.

Coupled with given the lack of surveillance his downtime was unknown so in house medical staff would not take a chance and will initiate CPR and the transporting medics would not stop again till they got to an ED.

The optics: The staff knew this was a VIP and the inevitable scrutiny that would be following so whey add more suspicion by not attempting resuscitation.

originally posted by: Hefficide
I had a cardiac arrest in 1985. CPR was performed by the paramedics ( who were already there when I arrested after having been in arrhythmia, which is why 911 was called ) and I was resuscitated in the ER.

Also congrats on beating father time.
Awful topic and I mean no offence but if they rocked up an hour later do you think the same procedure would have happened?

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Do we know for a fact that the photo with the breathing apparatus isn’t from his incident weeks before? We all know how the media is with releasing photos and correct timelines.

a reply to: FredT
Nice, qualified answers, thank you.

What if it was obvious he was dead, say 1hr after last breath?

Im not trying to argue, I'm completely ignorant and just wondering about how regulations compare to what happened.

a reply to: TheLieWeLive

I never thought that was in question.

What makes you think they are lying about that?

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Well it’s not like they haven’t lied before. Do we 100% know it’s not from before?
ABC just got called out for showing wrong place, wrong time photos for an entirely different event than what they were reporting.

a reply to: TheLieWeLive
It could be from before.

When before was he wheeled out on a gurney whilst being given cpr?

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

So I do not have any specialized knowledge in pathology mind you this is just based on experience

Usually in the field obvious death would be say exposed brain matter, massive trauma etc. If there is a tiny chance no matter how small they will initiate CPR

Livor mortis is usually not visible till about 2 hours until after death. The better know Rigor mortise takes more time etc.


Given the known timeline, there was no reason not to start CPR and other high level resuscitation efforts

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Could have been when he was found injured in his cell weeks before his death. The clothing would be the same so how do you know it’s not from his first incident?
I don’t know, just asking the question.

originally posted by: Hefficide

On the other hand performing CPR on a person who's not clinically dead wouldn't make much sense.

I don't think that was covered in my CPR course.

That would explain why the guy I saved was flailing around so much and the subsequent restraing order.

As a EMT i did not give CPR to bodies in Rigor mortise or showing blood pooling on the body.

But i would on drowning victims till warm and dead.

www.iflscience.com...
www.sciencedirect.com...

a reply to: Hefficide

...After reaching hospital doctors would be able to make such determinations as they're both more qualified and would have access to more information via testing ( body temp, electrical activity in the body etc ).

In this day and age I'd have thought that all Ambulances would carry that kind of equipment,

When I had my last seizure I was hooked-up to a blood-oxygen meter and an ECG within minutes of the paramedics arriving, and the gear they had me hooked-up to was printing out data in real-time.

There are random defibrillators dotted about the island where I live, some on the high street, and others in places like schools, leisure centres, shops and town halls.

You dial 999, they give you the lock code for the defib in your area, and then the machine talks you through the process step-by-step.

Sounds good, right?

Nope, the idiot snowflakes want to spoil the availability of lifesaving gear too;

A 24-hour publicly accessible defibrillator was removed from Charing Cross – after a member of the public complained that a passing child could hit their head on it.

Gordon Hunt, a senior paramedic and operations manager for the Ambulance Service, said that the defibrillator would now be available only during store opening times.

Local News Source

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Long story short you do CPR until it is called. So that is exactly what they should have done.