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Trumps Economic Policies Have Failed US Workers

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posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: dothedew

Please explain to me why I am a horrible left wing communist for showing this quote:

"Investment fell at a 3.0 percent annual rate in the third quarter, after declining at a 1.0 percent rate in the second quarter. Over the last year, investment has risen just 1.3 percent, less than the growth in the economy. This is not an investment boom."

How is this: "As per the usual, statistics can be misleading and are often cherry-picked to show, or evidence, a certain narrative or bias.

Please tell me what to think. What is the proper statistical framing I should consider?




posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

do you just love being ratio'd daily here? Once Trump was elected back in 2016, all you Liberals claimed the sky was going to fall and everything was going to crash... Similar to everything, you guys were wrong... Just wrong all the time... Its truly remarkable..



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015
I did not post that you are wrong.
I posted that I am making more in the same job than in 2015.
I do not care what your data says.
I care what the numbers on my paycheck says.
2015 is less than 2019
what is different
2015=barak
2019=donald

less regulation
less unemployment
more money in my pocket




edit on 5/11/2019 by shooterbrody because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: dfnj2015

Meanwhile the stocks are breaking records for something like the 150th time, I've lost count. Trump's policies are helping me tremendously and the company I work for gave an across the board raise and set up an auto raise program. I just can't, for the life of me, understand why people like you wouldn't do some research of your own and stop relying on what a source beneficial to you would tell you to think.


EPI.org is a non-partisan group just studying economic numbers. Are you suggesting we ignore any economy measurements that do not agree with our preferred ideology?


Nope. I'm telling you to do actual research so you get actual and accurate information. When it comes to charts and graphs, different sources give different numbers. Research and make your own.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:46 AM
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So I was a union electrician for 10 years....me...a conservative.....the union....IBEW....has stopped being for the workers, and is all about making money for the contractors. My last straw came 3 years ago when I was on a state job in upstate ny, union management signed off on a provision that took our breaks away. The gc did not want to pay us for taking a 10 minute break.

That is why union membership is down, not bc of Trump.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:46 AM
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originally posted by: PurpleFox
a reply to: dfnj2015
Didn't even have to look, already knew who posted this...


How very conservative of you lol

It really is crazy the way TPTB have taught y’all to beg, sit and stay anytime they use the buzz words they installed lol.
edit on 5-11-2019 by JustJohnny because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:48 AM
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originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: dfnj2015

They had to pair union membership with income inequality to show the economy is bad.... LOL.

Union membership may be down because more and more people are realizing that paying union dues to get Democrats elected is a lose-lose situation for them.

Meanwhile, we have more Americans employed now then in any other time in history, unemployment numbers are at record lows for women, minorities and the handicapped.

Wages are steadily rising at record highs as well, with the biggest gains being the lowest wage earners.

We have more jobs in America than we have workers.

Between Trump's tax cuts and cutting regulations we are doing just fine.

So your OP is BS.





Every time I want to comment on a topic lately, you hit all my bullet points and them some and do it so eloquently and completely I might just have to say see Lumenari when I want to reply.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:49 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I don't care about right wing or left wing politics or tactics.

The fact that you prefaced your diatribe with this is absurd.
All the regulars here already know where you are at, so why even try that BS.
I'm not even going to bother explaining why 90% of your conclusions are just flat out wrong, because TDS will not allow you to see reality.


Here I throw out an olive branch trying to be open minded and objective with Trump and you just dismiss it out of hand. Maybe Trump's policy of cutting corporate taxes is the solution. So 90% of my conclusions are just wrong because of my posting history.

I just want to talk about what public policy decision by Trump: The tax cuts he got passed. And every post in the thread is personal attack on me or something off-topic. I would prefer we not have a pissing contest or waste our time with ad hominem attacks.

You tell me why Trump's corporate tax cuts have been a success?

So since my conclusions are so screwed, even though the facts in the OP are just facts, you tell me how I should think. You tell me how I need to think to be a good Trump Republican. Please teach me.



90% of your conclusions are wrong, because all commonly accepted economic indicators point to a good to great economy.

Your posting history indicates that you, absolutely, have a political bias.

Let me ask you a question.

If our corporate tax rates are drastically out of line with other countries, how would we ever hope to keep their operations domestically.

It's not any one policy that is "the answer". It is a comprehensive approach, including the cutting of burdensome regulations, and renegotiation of bad trade deals.

The economy has been better under Trump than at any time for, at least, the last 4 administrations, and it's not even arguable. Just look at the employment numbers, jobs created, and the market.

You could try to argue that it has nothing to do with Trump, but I have never seen a factual basis for that.

All this economic growth, in spite of the China tarrifs, which IMO needed to be done. We can't continue to accept unfair, unreciprical trade practices.

Honestly, I think a lot of ppl are just jealous that the "rich" have more than the poor.

Let me tell you something. Life isn't always fair, and you can't legislate it to be so.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: Lumenari

No they compare union membership with the percentage of a companies profits that got to upper management vs the rank and file employees...


Surprise surprise , as the gop has destroyed the unions, the CEO types have kept a bigger and bigger hunk of the pie for themselves...



Who could ever guess that once you take away the employees ability to collectively bargain, tptb decide to keep more and more of the profit margins for themselves..


It is just unbelievable....


Not



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:53 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: dfnj2015
I am making more than I did in 2015.
So are many others.
Sorry for your confusion.


So I am wrong. I'm going by EPI.org quoted data. Obviously because one or two people posting here are doing better I am a very bad person.

You tell me what I should think. I'm listening.


Have you even visited the EPI.org site?

This is why you need to do your own research and stop relying on op-eds that feed you.

Feed yourself.

Here... See for yourself. EPI Data Library



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:53 AM
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originally posted by: jhn7537
a reply to: dfnj2015

do you just love being ratio'd daily here? Once Trump was elected back in 2016, all you Liberals claimed the sky was going to fall and everything was going to crash... Similar to everything, you guys were wrong... Just wrong all the time... Its truly remarkable..


Can we just talk about the effect of Trump's tax breaks for corporations and what they were supposed to do. Thanks.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: JustJohnny

originally posted by: PurpleFox
a reply to: dfnj2015
Didn't even have to look, already knew who posted this...


How very conservative of you lol

It really is crazy the way TPTB have taught y’all to beg, sit and stay anytime they use the buzz words they installed lol.


Well how about that for irony....



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

That's the only thing I left alone in my tirade, it seems.

Looking into that, however, it looks like we have several reasons for lacking investments.

For one, nobody is buying our bonds because of all of our debt; as it stands right now, you actually lose money on any purchased government bonds by the time they mature.

Going further into personal investments, such as 401k, 401a, 403b, etc., there's been a slight stagnation in public sector employment (the biggest group with mandatory retirement/stock deductions from their pay) and a similar instance of such in the private sector (although nowhere near as much). When fewer people are forced to pay into it, less money gets invested. My wife stopped allowing her 401k deduction and has saved up more money in a pillowcase underneath our bed over the last 6 months than her 401k has over the last 2 years....... putting the same exact amount aside


For the record, I never said you were a horrible Left Wing Communist lol.
edit on 5-11-2019 by dothedew because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:58 AM
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originally posted by: jhn7537
a reply to: dfnj2015

do you just love being ratio'd daily here? Once Trump was elected back in 2016, all you Liberals claimed the sky was going to fall and everything was going to crash... Similar to everything, you guys were wrong... Just wrong all the time... Its truly remarkable..


Haha

Yeah, I remember all the "chicken littles".

Good times......

Funny, I haven't seen a single one admit they were wrong.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: JustJohnny





It really is crazy the way TPTB have taught y’all to beg, sit and stay anytime they use the buzz words they installed lol.


You just did exactly what you're accusing someone else of doing. In spades. Writ large.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:58 AM
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This isn't on Trump. This is the new reality. Old school American labor ain't making a comeback. If you're not a part of the knowledge economy you'll be better served moving to another country where these kind of jobs are still being farmed out. If not, better learn a trick and hope you're cute enough that the elites will want to keep you as a pet.

Welcome to the Useless Class.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:59 AM
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originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: LSU2018
a reply to: dfnj2015

Meanwhile the stocks are breaking records for something like the 150th time, I've lost count. Trump's policies are helping me tremendously and the company I work for gave an across the board raise and set up an auto raise program. I just can't, for the life of me, understand why people like you wouldn't do some research of your own and stop relying on what a source beneficial to you would tell you to think.


EPI.org is a non-partisan group just studying economic numbers. Are you suggesting we ignore any economy measurements that do not agree with our preferred ideology?


Nope. I'm telling you to do actual research so you get actual and accurate information. When it comes to charts and graphs, different sources give different numbers. Research and make your own.


I don't think anyone would produce a different version of the blue curve in the graph I referenced in the OP. I total agree with the idea correlation does not prove causation. So the blue curve may or may NOT be the result of union membership percentages.

However, I am puzzled by your response. Are you saying the facts represented by the blue curve are just wrong? And if these are wrong facts, please show me what are the right facts I should read



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 11:03 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: jhn7537
a reply to: dfnj2015

do you just love being ratio'd daily here? Once Trump was elected back in 2016, all you Liberals claimed the sky was going to fall and everything was going to crash... Similar to everything, you guys were wrong... Just wrong all the time... Its truly remarkable..


Can we just talk about the effect of Trump's tax breaks for corporations and what they were supposed to do. Thanks.


We could, but you will lose that arguement as well.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Some days I think people who don't understand money shouldn't be allowed to view financial data...

OK, you made two points: that the tax cuts were not leading to elimination of loopholes and increased investment, and that Union participation under the Trump administration is helping the wealthy and therefore hurting the poor. Let's take these one by one, OK?

The tax cuts are not eliminating loopholes

Of course they aren't. I'm not going to claim that was not part of the tax cut debate, but I will say I don't remember it being a concern and would have laughed at it had I heard it. The entire reason for the use of loopholes is not just that taxes are too high, but rather that the IRS tax regulations literally take up volumes of books! Even IRS representatives cannot answer many questions put to them accurately, or at least in a manner that will protect the asker. The next representative or an auditor can easily see things differently according to what section of the code they are most familiar with.

The only way to eliminate loopholes is to eliminate the vast bulk of IRS regulations, and that's not happening any time soon. We can't even get the House to take up the USMCA trade argreement; the chances that they are going to be anywhere near open to rewriting the literally hundreds of thousands of pages of IRS regulations is nil.

The tax cuts are not spurring investment

Investment is not a consumable like bread. If one were to buy a loaf of bread, they are going to need more bread next week. If they don't eat it, the bread will mold. Bread is a consumable. On the other hand, if one buys a car, one is not going to buy another car next week because they used up the first car. A car is not a consumable... it will eventually need to be replaced (in most cases anyway) as it wears out, but it is not something that is regularly purchased to be used up. A car is an investment.

Now, if I buy a car today, I will drive that car for at least 10 years (I tend to get all the 'goody' out of them). So I make an investment one time, today, and I will not make another investment for at least ten years. That doesn't mean that I don't have a car during those ten years... but my investment went down. That's how investments work, for business or individuals. An initial investment will continue to hold value for some time even though no further investment is made during that time. That's what makes it an investment.

Business has other investments besides equipment, buildings, and infrastructure, though. Businesses invest in their workforce. Payroll is like a consumable, because it must be paid every period, but the expense of hiring an employee is an investment too. It costs money, time, and aggravation to deal with hiring and firing people. It's not like you can just walk to the corner worker shop and pick up a worker. There has to be a search for candidates, interviews, and finally the probation period, during which that worker is unfamiliar with the job and will not produce at full speed (although they still make full pay). Not to mention all the legal hassles when someone claims they were fired unfairly... and trust me, those can be a major legal headache even when there is zero evidence backing them up.

So what do businesses do? They hire temp workers... more on that in a moment.

The reports that you didn't link show there has been a small drop in net investment in the last two quarters, but what that doesn't tell you is that investment is still occurring at a much higher rate than before Trump became President. Investment is cumulative in its effects, that is, one needs to count ALL the investments from the previous time span being considered, not only that from a single period, to get the whole picture. The investments made during 2016 are still producing, as are the ones form 2017 and 2018... so a drop in investment is not a major concern (really not a concern at all; it is expected) as long as it does not span many years' time.

Trump's policies toward Unions

Remember above where I mentioned the cost of hiring new workers and why that means more temp workers are being hired? Well, that's also the reason Union membership is dropping. Temp employees, unlike company employees, have no legal recourse if they get fired. None. Walk in one day wearing the wrong color shoes and you can be sent home. That's what temp workers are for. When a temp worker takes an assignment, they work for the temp agency, but under control of the company. The temp agency provides any benefits and covers their payroll. The paycheck is signed by the temp agency, not by the company. The company only tells the temp worker what to do at work.

Thus, there is no reasonable way for temp workers to unionize. They may work at one assignment for a week, at another for six months, at another for 2 years. All three assignments might be in different industries, or they might be in the same industry... all that matters is if the temp worker has the qualifications for the job. A lot of temp jobs do have as a goal the hiring of the worker full time, but that will only happen after the worker has shown their willingness to work, to follow company policy, and their ability. Anything less, and they'll be let go when work runs out.

That's why Union membership is dropping: less and less lifetime jobs. At one time, in the heyday of the Unions, a person could get a job out of high school, learn a trade, and expect to be employed for life with that one company. It made sense for employees of that company to pay the dues to make sure that company would treat them fairly, because it would likely be their company for life. Today, it is common to change jobs many times in just a few years, so why worry about paying dues to a Union that will only be useful for six months?

That has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. Temp agencies have been in vogue since the 1980s at least. I worked temp for a while (we called it "job-shopping"; one never expected to be hired full-time, but one also made more money during the time they actually worked. The downside was that most successful job-shoppers traveled between jobs and had little benefits). The only reason the numbers reflect a drop in percentage of Union membership among workers is that when business picked up, it picked up by using temp workers... and temp workers are not Unionized.

What your source does not talk about though is that unemployment rates are tremendously low. I am disabled now, of course, but were I able-bodied I could find a job within hours... every fast-food place and every big box store and every convenience store has "Help Wanted" signs out. Not exactly stellar positions, I'll grant you that, but any job is better than begging for scraps in a gutter. That's the real way that Trump's policies have helped the worker: by letting them be workers! By causing business to invest not just in equipment, but in jobs.

It's hard to even be a worker without a job. That's requirement one. Without that, none of the rest of the argument is even a consideration.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 11:04 AM
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a reply to: Mach2

A) so when did presidents start getting credit for the economy during their first term????

It is super common knowledge that a presidents policies do not really start playing out until his second term..

Which is nothing new...

Bush Sr was way more responsible for the Clinton era boom than Bill was..


Clinton caused the Bush W recession.. by passing a conservative glasdegal but still..


B) if I’m right a recession is now predicted... trump has kept the FED from raising interest rates, to slow the down turn, but it sure is funny that we are facing a recession right about the time trumps policy’s kick in....

Hmmmmmmm...

And the economic growth was predicted no matter who won, so a recession would be 100% trumps doing, and a continued growth would be to his credit as well..




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