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BOOM: Burisma Plead With US State Dept For Help, Invoked Hunter Biden

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posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Grambler

I am not even kidding Grambler. Trump is not a mystery

His history is a hot mess. Funny - do you think the fake news went back in time just to screw the MAGA folk over here in the present?

Ha!


I think it’s pathetic attempt for the left to excuse corruption and go after their opponents while protest ting themselves to claim they know right wing people have guilty motives, but left wing people like Obama and Biden must have pure motives and therefore it’s illegal or immoral to investigate them




posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

I know how much you need this Biden angle to work out for you

Trump has been lousy with crime and corruption his entire adult life. It's not a smear - it's a fact

It's fascinating to me how the MAGA folk refuse to see it. It was all there on paper well before he even got his cheesy TV show



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Remember when you said there is no reason period for an executive authority to withhold congressional aid for a favor, even if it was a mission from god?

Remember when you then said it was ok for Biden to withhold aid for a favor, because it was just him doing a good job?

If I proved myself to be that hypocritical on the same thread, then don’t think I’d have the nerve to insult trump supporters for anything



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

This was what I said - though you keep ignoring it:
He was Vice President, and it was his job. Actual crimes had been committed, and remember - we were trying to help Ukraine - not Russia

He didn't admit to extorting anyone because this wasn't extortion. It was pressure (obviously) and it a was definitely a legitimate threat

Your prezzie on the other hand withheld money promised to an actual ally, that was approved by congress and was meant to be used towards their defense against the Russians. For a favor: investigate Trump's main political rival before an upcoming election or you don't get your defense money

If the Bidens committed a crime, I imagine that will come out at some point - don't you? I mean, Trump owns Bill Barr - our boot licking attorney general. How hard could it possibly be to get to the bottom of this?


You're clinging to something that isn't going to further your argument. It doesn't matter - what he did was wrong. If the Bidens committed a crime that will no doubt come out at some point (as I've said several times)

I don't see that they did, but I'll tell you one thing: if they did - I'll be able to accept it and carry on. For me this isn't about teams, it's about the rule of law

This isn't about me, or my team, or my ego. This all needs to be proven. Even if the Bidens are dirty it doesn't change one damn thing. Trump did what he did, and there's been a steady stream of witnesses that will tell you the same. It needs to go to trial - and it will

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Trump has a history of crime and corruption. You can pretend that this is just fake news, or that the left is somehow conjuring up all of this to railroad him, but the facts remain facts. He's not an honest man. He never has been



edit on 11/12/2019 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Here is what you said first


What people are saying is that the president can't withhold funds approved by congress as aid to an ally in exchange for a favor - period. That's called extortion

It matters not what Trump's intentions were. Even if he was on a mission from God


Then you went on to make the above comment, totally contradicting your statement not even a mission from god would be acceptable.

If there is reason to investigate Biden, then trump did nothing wrong by asking for cooperation on that investigation, just like Obama's admin and intel agencies asked foreign countries to aid in their investigation of trump.

You and the dems claiming biden quid pro quo was perfectly fine, but we must investigate trumps alleged (not proven) quid pro quo is what is unreasonable.

Pointing out your hypocritical statements is just showing an example of how the trump dislikers are hypocritical in their case of impeachment.



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 05:38 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Sorry Grambler - you can't seem to follow what I'm saying. Or you're just trolling

I'm not trolling, I'm trying to have an honest conversation

You call me a hypocrite for not seeing things your way. In reality the two situations are not the same (the way I see it). If they are the same, and Trump is innocent - that will be proven at some point

I think that you love this man so much you are blinded to reality. I'm sorry about that - I really am. I wish it wasn't like this for any of us. I wish we could all agree on the same facts

I'm afraid nothing I say is going to please you - so - see you in another thread



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 05:59 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Its not me trolling or seeing things a different way.

I too want to have an honest conversation.

In order to have a meaningful conversation, some ground rules have to be set.

One of those rules is that we all assume when someone makes a definitive comment, they are telling the truth and willing to stand by it.

So when you say


What people are saying is that the president can't withhold funds approved by congress as aid to an ally in exchange for a favor - period. That's called extortion

It matters not what Trump's intentions were. Even if he was on a mission from God


Thats very definitive. Ok, the conversation from this point will be carried out under the assumption you actually believe what you claimed here.

And so i showed that Biden and Obama did in fact withhold congressional approved funds as aid to an ally in exchange for a favor.

At this point, you decide to completely contradict your first statement, and say well in this case, it was ok for Obama and biden to do that.

At this point, there is no honest conversation to be had. You have made it quite clear that anytime anyone says anything that proves someone on the left like Obama or biden did that you claim was wrong when the other side did it, you will make any excuse up to say its ok when your side does it.

This is exactly what many partisans do (such as in the media for example), and it makes honest conversations impossible.

The conversation with you becomes only about pointing out this hypocrisy at this point.

Then you double down, by claiming its in fact Trump supporters that have a problem and are too partisan to have a conversation with.

So I wish you well, and respect that you want to leave the conversation.

But by making such a definitive statement, that no favors can be demanded when withholding congressional approved aid, period. Then immediately saying well it was ok for your guy to do exactly that, you destroyed any honest conversation.



edit on 12-11-2019 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 06:18 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Trump’s ‘favor’ may not seem worse than Biden’s threat. But there’s a difference.


Perception is everything in politics. Depending upon one’s politics, Trump’s leveraged “favor” may not seem any worse than Biden’s threat to withhold loan guarantees essential to Ukraine’s developing a budget until another official was fired. But there is a difference. What Biden sought had international backing, and the loan guarantees were always tied to anti-corruption measures. What Trump sought places our global diplomatic positioning in jeopardy and Ukraine’s future in peril. By Trump’s abuse of power — and his entreaty to other countries, including China, to join our political fracas — he may have invited criminal prosecution and impeachment.


It's WashPo - so, I don't expect you to take it seriously. It's also an opinion piece - so - an opinion

Biden wasn't asking for a personal favor. It was not a secret, there were other countries that supported what he was doing. As the author says - the optics weren't good. I agree. As I've said (several times): if the Bidens are guilty of something - that will come out. There's been a lot of talk about this on the left - not that you've read any of that

What Trump did was a secret until he was outed, and there have been many people who have gone on the record to state that what they witnessed was not right

If you believe these two things are the same then there really isn't anywhere else to go with this conversation

I can understand why why you think it's the same thing. I do. But, we do see it differently. Insults don't make your opinion any more valid than mine

Trump is not an honest man. I know you don't see it, I know you're not interested in his past, or the facts, or the many, many people who could tell you what he's done to them personally through the past 3 decades

I guess we'll both have to wait and see how this plays out

Nothing left to say Grambler - but I do appreciate your last post. See you out there



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 06:31 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I believe your statement ...


What people are saying is that the president can't withhold funds approved by congress as aid to an ally in exchange for a favor - period. That's called extortion

It matters not what Trump's intentions were. Even if he was on a mission from God


didnt make anyt distinction as to any of these things.

You said any withholding of aid for a favor was extortion, period, even if it was a mission from god.

Now you are saying well when biden did just that, it was ok.

This shows you are not interested in an honest conversation, and will move the goal posts.

Now as to the wash post piece, I have argued against it and other making the same claims over and over.

It makes no difference if other countries or groups (predominantly soros and obama allies) said it was ok for Biden and Obama to extort the ukraine

Even if they are right shokin was corrupt, that doesnt mean Obama and biden couldnt want shokin removed because it benefited them personally because hunter bidens company was being invetsigated.

If the money was just avbout ending corruption, why only force one prosecutor out? If Biden and bam and the eu and the imf were so upset that shokin allowed the guilty zlochevsky walk free, why did none of those groups express outrage or demand to stop giving the ukraine aid when the obama allied NABU let zlochecksy go with a slap on the wrist?

And what do you mean Obama and biden withheld the aid in the open? Did you know about it? Can you show me news articles leading up to Bidens extortion where it announced he was going to withhold the aid unless they fired the prosecutor who was looking at his sons company? I didt see those.

Meanwhile even if it was out in the open, we still havent seen the transcripts of bidens or other obama officals conversations with the Ukraine about this, why not if it was so open?

Your feelings on trump or bidens character are meaningless to whether or not we should allow an executive branch to withhold congressional approved aid for a personal favor.

Bidne should be investigated, and trump did nothing wrong by asking for cooperation into that, any more than Obama did nothing wrong by having his intel agecnies ask foreign governmnets for aid in investigating Trump.



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 07:47 PM
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originally posted by: RickinVa
a reply to: Lumenari


I have noticed after over the last 15 years of being on ATS, that there are at least two left leaning accounts on ATS that only become active during certain times.... this is one of those times as one account has recently began posting frequently....the second account has been inactive for about 2 years....if that one starts posting, then things are going really bad for the left.


You conspiracy theorist you.




posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 10:26 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis




Did Obama do it for his own personal gain?


Well yeah, basically. If you read the whole post you'd know they used this newly created entity to go after political opponents. Not only that, they used this entity to shut down investigations into burisma and the biden's. You can bet other political connections to obama were involved in corruption in ukraine but also got protection from them.



To put a political opponent in a vise one year before an election and make things easier for himself?


No it wasn't quite a year before the election.



Trump did this for the good of the country - right?


Would it benefit the country to find out if the democrats were using ukraine to influence our elections? Would it benefit the country to have a corrupt VP exposed? You know it's quite possible for something to both benefit the country and benefit trump politically right? I mean that's kind of the whole point. You do things that make the country better and in return you are rewarded politically...
edit on 12-11-2019 by Dfairlite because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

One payment shy of 3.25 million... weird.



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 10:38 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Trump has these and more. He knows all about the biden and democrat corruption in ukraine. Lutsenko hired a US law firm to get it to him and barr, as yovanavitch was denying his VISA for travel to the US to hand deliver them.

Trump really might be about to deal a fatal blow to the swamp.



posted on Nov, 12 2019 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Also worth noting, 36 payments of 83,333.33. 36 payments in less than two years. A monthly salary would have 24 payments. A biweekly salary would have 52. A twice a month salary would have 48. So this does not fit standard salary pay dates. This was a payment for something other than salary.



posted on Nov, 13 2019 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

What did trump do that was secret? He was asking Ukraine to abide by the conditions of the 2014 Ukraine freedom support act which was the act that all Ukrainian aid sprang from. Every bit of of the aid hinged in part on fighting corruption .

That legislation has been free for anyone to see for going on six years now .
edit on 13-11-2019 by Fallingdown because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2019 @ 11:05 AM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
Trump has been lousy with crime and corruption his entire adult life. It's not a smear - it's a fact

Yeah, that explains why he isn't in prison right now, even after having his entire life gone over by hundreds of individual microscopes by TDS suffering lawyers who hate him with every fibre of their being.


It's fascinating to me how the MAGA folk refuse to see it. It was all there on paper well before he even got his cheesy TV show

If it was, he'd be in jail. So, obviously, you are mistaken.




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