Supposedly socialism has killed 200 million people

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
8

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: pexx421

It seems that apart from trying to rewrite history to suit your views you have learned nothing from history.
Millons dead/starved/murdered in the name of socialism/communism but its all somehow the Wests fault?
Why dont you move to Venezuela?

ah. So you are you saying we didnt attempt to assassinate their rulers? or to foment coups? Are you saying we dont have them embargoed from foreign trade? Or that we havent stolen billions of their dollars? which part of these do you disagree with?

It seems that anyone who disagrees with you you call idiots etc.
Not much point in trying to engage with a poster who is so dogmatic and closed minded.
Typical socialist attempts to purge dissent.
Comrade.

No, it’s more like when people here patronize, make insulting personal attacks, and RESPOND TO STATEMENTS THEY INVENT RATHER THAN STATEMENTS WE MAKE, then I respond in kind. You and others like you devolve to insults and personal attacks, and then act all affronted when I respond in kind. If you don’t like it, don’t go there!

So I’ll ask again, which of the facts that I’ve stated about us actions in Venezuela, Argentina, Honduras etc do you deny? It’s very simple. You stated these nations situation are the results of “SOCIALISM!!” I pointed out other factors. Rather than discussing them you resort to personal attacks. To me, that demonstrates an unwillingness to consider context because your position can’t bear it.

The biggest examples of how socialism/communism ends with a police state, repression of freedom, millions of citizens dead or murdered and general misery are Soviet Russia and China so lets discuss the biggies, eh?

Also, please don't shout.

Right. So you’re response is to refuse to discuss the points I made. Let’s ignore facts that don’t fit our narrative, shall we?

That is pretty ironic as it is you that is rewriting history to fit your beliefs.
Soviet Russia and China and the lessons of history seem not to fit your narrative.

I believe you are the one who mentioned venezuela initially. And where did i "rewrite history"? Did I anywhere on here state that the governments of china or russia were good for their people? I accept that there are and were governments who made claims to be socialist that were bad for their people. And i also point out that governments that use policies that are often criticized as socialism, are often good for their people as well. Such as the nordic model....or any western industrialized nation other than the us.

Socialism does not and never has worked.
Learn from history.
Norway? No.
Please give an example of a socialist country that actually works.

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Fools

You have obviously never known anyone who resides in Norway.

So the Soviet Union and Norway are equal in their socialisms in your eyes? And, yes not only do I know someone from Norway but I have also spent a week in Oslo.

No, in YOUR EYES Soviet Union and Norway are equal in their socialism. Because when we discuss any of the policies practiced by Nordic nations quite successfully, you predict we will become the ussr. That’s YOUR equivalency, not ours.

Great way to NOT answer a question. Excellent that you put words in my mouth. So charming.

Great way to act like you don’t understand the answer. Obviously ussr and Nordic nations have vastly different values, situations, and methods. We support our tax dollars here going to support the people rather than war and corporate profit. Similar to every other western industrialized nation we want things like single payer healthcare, minimal education expenses, and a limit to corporate freedoms from liability and regulations so that they can only exploit so much, and don’t destabilize our economic processes. All of which you already are aware of.

May I ask what programs are paid 100% by your government? May I also ask if corporations are allowed to exist and make profits? Which sources of revenue does Norway's government own? Do they own your coal or steel plants? Do they own the oil rigs? Do they own breakfast shops? And if not, do they tell the breakfast shop how much they can sell and what prices they can charge? Are you allowed as a citizen of Norway to save and invest money from your paycheck?

I don't think anyone is saying that ALL government varieties of socialism are bad. They are saying that having the government that is socialist decide ALL things is bad. And actually scientifically impossible.

You misunderstand. I am american. And i am explaining that people here who support policies, such as healthcare, education, etc that are often described as socialist, want their tax dollars to work for them, rather than just for the wealthy elite.

As to govt controlled business....i believe that the oil industry in norway is nationalized. So there is that. Here, in the US, we have some utilities that are govt run, often the far more reasonable ones. We also have a bank that is govt run, again, much less exploitative than the private ones, it doesnt crash the worlds economy through fraud and gambling with peoples pensions and investments, and all its profits go to support the community. This banking model is starting to get much more widespread attention and support.

And your final point is incorrect. There are numerous people, here and otherwise, that state that any policies that resemble socialism in the slightest are absolutely bad and doomed to failure. They would have you believe that any limitation of pharma and healthcares ability to exploit us to the maximum and hold our lives and health for ransom, will lead instantly to bread lines and mass purging of citizens.

a reply to: oldcarpy

Bolivia seems to be making a pretty strong go of it.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: pexx421

You said “ First is the myth that any of us want "equal". Apparently you have trouble understanding what "equal" means. ”
Well, let’s look at that shall we. If equality is not what communists want, then why is redistribution of wealth from the evil bourgeois to the common man such an integral part of the Communist Manifesto, and why is it such an integral part of the Progressive party platform ? Why do Progressives insist on equal everything on a regular basis.
And yes we do understand the meaning of equality. Taking from one to give to another is a false sense of equality. I should be equally able to keep my paycheck as much as another. How about the concept of fairness. Is it really fair that I should work my behind off so some illegal can come and get things for free ? Are you kidding ?

First off, find me some communists. Its YOU who states "they want socialism on their path to communism". No, we dont. We want reasonable socialist policies that provide a quality standard of living for all, based upon the work they do, in a mixed capital market economy. Do we care about enacting the communist manifesto? No. Its not part of anyone heres goal.

Secondly.....the progressive platform states all people must be given $5362 a month? Or any such silliness? NO. Thats just your made up #. No one on the platform has ever said everyone needs the same amount of money. Back this up.

As to your paycheck....I agree. In no socialist model EVER have they said that. In fact, according to socialism, by trotsky, Your paycheck isnt even supposed to be taxed. Its YOUR money that YOU earned. All taxes were to come from unearned income. Thats, you know, those people who want to get free things from you. Like the corporation you may work for, that cuts all the profit out for themselves, and gives you a tiny fraction of the profit that you actually produced. I know, you dont get it. If they own the land, and the building, and your work "for them", then they should be absolutely able to decide how little money you receive for your efforts, and it should have nothing to do with how skilled you might be, or how much profit and productivity you actually create. Because in your mind, thats MUCH more fair than actually paying people based off of their profit creation and productivity.

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: pexx421

You said “ First is the myth that any of us want "equal". Apparently you have trouble understanding what "equal" means. ”
Well, let’s look at that shall we. If equality is not what communists want, then why is redistribution of wealth from the evil bourgeois to the common man such an integral part of the Communist Manifesto, and why is it such an integral part of the Progressive party platform ? Why do Progressives insist on equal everything on a regular basis.
And yes we do understand the meaning of equality. Taking from one to give to another is a false sense of equality. I should be equally able to keep my paycheck as much as another. How about the concept of fairness. Is it really fair that I should work my behind off so some illegal can come and get things for free ? Are you kidding ?

One of my best pals grew up in Moldolvia (sp?) SSR. Probably the biggest #hole in all of the SSR's, however he said that the reality is that the only people that had anything were the criminal minded (because of the black market) and the political class. His said, "the rest of us were but mere cockroaches".

Yeah, we all know the USSR was a horrible govt. I also never stated that china has wonderful panda doctors, that venezeula has people on the moon, or that canadians have weed that cures all diseases. There are numerous other made up arguments that I've never made, feel free to respond to any of them, as you seem to enjoy doing.

a reply to: Fools

I once had lessons from a ballroom instructor from Russia who told me that the mafia operated there and that no one can make it on their own without paying off these people. He also said the people still hate Stalin.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: oldcarpy

Ask the folks in Norway.

Why? That isn't a socialist country.

We know that. And if the US enacted policies of single payer health and education, mandatory vacation accrual, maternity leave, etc like they have over there, WE wouldnt be a socialist country either. But many of the folks here would have you believe so. And....breadlines and mass citizen purges.

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
8

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: pexx421

It seems that apart from trying to rewrite history to suit your views you have learned nothing from history.
Millons dead/starved/murdered in the name of socialism/communism but its all somehow the Wests fault?
Why dont you move to Venezuela?

ah. So you are you saying we didnt attempt to assassinate their rulers? or to foment coups? Are you saying we dont have them embargoed from foreign trade? Or that we havent stolen billions of their dollars? which part of these do you disagree with?

It seems that anyone who disagrees with you you call idiots etc.
Not much point in trying to engage with a poster who is so dogmatic and closed minded.
Typical socialist attempts to purge dissent.
Comrade.

No, it’s more like when people here patronize, make insulting personal attacks, and RESPOND TO STATEMENTS THEY INVENT RATHER THAN STATEMENTS WE MAKE, then I respond in kind. You and others like you devolve to insults and personal attacks, and then act all affronted when I respond in kind. If you don’t like it, don’t go there!

So I’ll ask again, which of the facts that I’ve stated about us actions in Venezuela, Argentina, Honduras etc do you deny? It’s very simple. You stated these nations situation are the results of “SOCIALISM!!” I pointed out other factors. Rather than discussing them you resort to personal attacks. To me, that demonstrates an unwillingness to consider context because your position can’t bear it.

The biggest examples of how socialism/communism ends with a police state, repression of freedom, millions of citizens dead or murdered and general misery are Soviet Russia and China so lets discuss the biggies, eh?

Also, please don't shout.

Right. So you’re response is to refuse to discuss the points I made. Let’s ignore facts that don’t fit our narrative, shall we?

That is pretty ironic as it is you that is rewriting history to fit your beliefs.
Soviet Russia and China and the lessons of history seem not to fit your narrative.

I believe you are the one who mentioned venezuela initially. And where did i "rewrite history"? Did I anywhere on here state that the governments of china or russia were good for their people? I accept that there are and were governments who made claims to be socialist that were bad for their people. And i also point out that governments that use policies that are often criticized as socialism, are often good for their people as well. Such as the nordic model....or any western industrialized nation other than the us.

Socialism does not and never has worked.
Learn from history.
Norway? No.
Please give an example of a socialist country that actually works.

So whats the problem with norway? Are you saying that they are not socialist, that they dont have socialist policies, or that they are not successful?
Please give me an example of a "socialist" country that we did not engage in economic, political, and military warfare with.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: pexx421

You said “ First is the myth that any of us want "equal". Apparently you have trouble understanding what "equal" means. ”
Well, let’s look at that shall we. If equality is not what communists want, then why is redistribution of wealth from the evil bourgeois to the common man such an integral part of the Communist Manifesto, and why is it such an integral part of the Progressive party platform ? Why do Progressives insist on equal everything on a regular basis.
And yes we do understand the meaning of equality. Taking from one to give to another is a false sense of equality. I should be equally able to keep my paycheck as much as another. How about the concept of fairness. Is it really fair that I should work my behind off so some illegal can come and get things for free ? Are you kidding ?

First off, find me some communists. Its YOU who states "they want socialism on their path to communism". No, we dont. We want reasonable socialist policies that provide a quality standard of living for all, based upon the work they do, in a mixed capital market economy. Do we care about enacting the communist manifesto? No. Its not part of anyone heres goal.

Secondly.....the progressive platform states all people must be given $5362 a month? Or any such silliness? NO. Thats just your made up #. No one on the platform has ever said everyone needs the same amount of money. Back this up.

As to your paycheck....I agree. In no socialist model EVER have they said that. In fact, according to socialism, by trotsky, Your paycheck isnt even supposed to be taxed. Its YOUR money that YOU earned. All taxes were to come from unearned income. Thats, you know, those people who want to get free things from you. Like the corporation you may work for, that cuts all the profit out for themselves, and gives you a tiny fraction of the profit that you actually produced. I know, you dont get it. If they own the land, and the building, and your work "for them", then they should be absolutely able to decide how little money you receive for your efforts, and it should have nothing to do with how skilled you might be, or how much profit and productivity you actually create. Because in your mind, thats MUCH more fair than actually paying people based off of their profit creation and productivity.

Man, you are getting people mixed up. I personally never said anything of the sort to you. I actually believe some safety nets for society at large are ok. You need to relax and remember who you are communicating with and what they actually said. My point for you is that Norway is by no means 100% socialist. Norway (much like the USA believe it or not) is a capitalist country with some "socialist" programs for the benefit of its citizens.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: pexx421

You said “ First is the myth that any of us want "equal". Apparently you have trouble understanding what "equal" means. ”
Well, let’s look at that shall we. If equality is not what communists want, then why is redistribution of wealth from the evil bourgeois to the common man such an integral part of the Communist Manifesto, and why is it such an integral part of the Progressive party platform ? Why do Progressives insist on equal everything on a regular basis.
And yes we do understand the meaning of equality. Taking from one to give to another is a false sense of equality. I should be equally able to keep my paycheck as much as another. How about the concept of fairness. Is it really fair that I should work my behind off so some illegal can come and get things for free ? Are you kidding ?

One of my best pals grew up in Moldolvia (sp?) SSR. Probably the biggest #hole in all of the SSR's, however he said that the reality is that the only people that had anything were the criminal minded (because of the black market) and the political class. His said, "the rest of us were but mere cockroaches".

Yeah, we all know the USSR was a horrible govt. I also never stated that china has wonderful panda doctors, that venezeula has people on the moon, or that canadians have weed that cures all diseases. There are numerous other made up arguments that I've never made, feel free to respond to any of them, as you seem to enjoy doing.

Once again, you are mixing up people.

8

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
8

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: pexx421

It seems that apart from trying to rewrite history to suit your views you have learned nothing from history.
Millons dead/starved/murdered in the name of socialism/communism but its all somehow the Wests fault?
Why dont you move to Venezuela?

ah. So you are you saying we didnt attempt to assassinate their rulers? or to foment coups? Are you saying we dont have them embargoed from foreign trade? Or that we havent stolen billions of their dollars? which part of these do you disagree with?

It seems that anyone who disagrees with you you call idiots etc.
Not much point in trying to engage with a poster who is so dogmatic and closed minded.
Typical socialist attempts to purge dissent.
Comrade.

No, it’s more like when people here patronize, make insulting personal attacks, and RESPOND TO STATEMENTS THEY INVENT RATHER THAN STATEMENTS WE MAKE, then I respond in kind. You and others like you devolve to insults and personal attacks, and then act all affronted when I respond in kind. If you don’t like it, don’t go there!

So I’ll ask again, which of the facts that I’ve stated about us actions in Venezuela, Argentina, Honduras etc do you deny? It’s very simple. You stated these nations situation are the results of “SOCIALISM!!” I pointed out other factors. Rather than discussing them you resort to personal attacks. To me, that demonstrates an unwillingness to consider context because your position can’t bear it.

The biggest examples of how socialism/communism ends with a police state, repression of freedom, millions of citizens dead or murdered and general misery are Soviet Russia and China so lets discuss the biggies, eh?

Also, please don't shout.

Right. So you’re response is to refuse to discuss the points I made. Let’s ignore facts that don’t fit our narrative, shall we?

That is pretty ironic as it is you that is rewriting history to fit your beliefs.
Soviet Russia and China and the lessons of history seem not to fit your narrative.

I believe you are the one who mentioned venezuela initially. And where did i "rewrite history"? Did I anywhere on here state that the governments of china or russia were good for their people? I accept that there are and were governments who made claims to be socialist that were bad for their people. And i also point out that governments that use policies that are often criticized as socialism, are often good for their people as well. Such as the nordic model....or any western industrialized nation other than the us.

Socialism does not and never has worked.
Learn from history.
Norway? No.
Please give an example of a socialist country that actually works.

So whats the problem with norway? Are you saying that they are not socialist, that they dont have socialist policies, or that they are not successful?
Please give me an example of a "socialist" country that we did not engage in economic, political, and military warfare with.

Erm...you just said that you know Norway is not a socialist country?

We? Im a Brit.
Has the US been involved in military warfare with China and or Russia?
I must have missed WW3.
How did that work out?
Did we win?

Socialism is slavery. All the "qualities" it claims are the same the slave owners touted of their property. Education, health care services, equitable housing, Sundays and holidays off. All at zero cost to the indentured. My plantation is more progressive than yours. I'll even let them pick which church they want to attend.So much freedom to be happy now that I've removed all the nasty capitalist concerns.

It's not like it never worked before. Haven't you seen the Smurfs? What a utopia. I mean unless you were smurfette.

a reply to: pexx421

I don’t know what to tell you, but yes the path to communism IS socialism, said both Lenin and Marx. Please by all means refute that.
Yes Marxism is to “ soak the rich “, only Marxists used the term “bourgeois” in place of rich capitalists, but now it’s just the rich. I’ve heard over and over the socialist/communist/Marxist say to eliminate capitalism and that the wealthy should “ pay their fair share” whatever that actually is.
You are not going to convince me it’s all good. I know it isn’t and the Soviet/Venezuela/ Cuba experiment should be a lesson.

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: pexx421

You said “ First is the myth that any of us want "equal". Apparently you have trouble understanding what "equal" means. ”
Well, let’s look at that shall we. If equality is not what communists want, then why is redistribution of wealth from the evil bourgeois to the common man such an integral part of the Communist Manifesto, and why is it such an integral part of the Progressive party platform ? Why do Progressives insist on equal everything on a regular basis.
And yes we do understand the meaning of equality. Taking from one to give to another is a false sense of equality. I should be equally able to keep my paycheck as much as another. How about the concept of fairness. Is it really fair that I should work my behind off so some illegal can come and get things for free ? Are you kidding ?

First off, find me some communists. Its YOU who states "they want socialism on their path to communism". No, we dont. We want reasonable socialist policies that provide a quality standard of living for all, based upon the work they do, in a mixed capital market economy. Do we care about enacting the communist manifesto? No. Its not part of anyone heres goal.

Secondly.....the progressive platform states all people must be given $5362 a month? Or any such silliness? NO. Thats just your made up #. No one on the platform has ever said everyone needs the same amount of money. Back this up.

As to your paycheck....I agree. In no socialist model EVER have they said that. In fact, according to socialism, by trotsky, Your paycheck isnt even supposed to be taxed. Its YOUR money that YOU earned. All taxes were to come from unearned income. Thats, you know, those people who want to get free things from you. Like the corporation you may work for, that cuts all the profit out for themselves, and gives you a tiny fraction of the profit that you actually produced. I know, you dont get it. If they own the land, and the building, and your work "for them", then they should be absolutely able to decide how little money you receive for your efforts, and it should have nothing to do with how skilled you might be, or how much profit and productivity you actually create. Because in your mind, thats MUCH more fair than actually paying people based off of their profit creation and productivity.

Man, you are getting people mixed up. I personally never said anything of the sort to you. I actually believe some safety nets for society at large are ok. You need to relax and remember who you are communicating with and what they actually said. My point for you is that Norway is by no means 100% socialist. Norway (much like the USA believe it or not) is a capitalist country with some "socialist" programs for the benefit of its citizens.

I’m not mixed up. You are. As stated at the top of that post, it’s a response to “eye of Horus” not to you.

originally posted by: pexx421
And if the US enacted policies of single payer health and education, mandatory vacation accrual, maternity leave, etc like they have over there, WE wouldnt be a socialist country either.

Yeah, we'd just be a nanny state and all of our taxes would double or triple or more, just to take care of a bunch of useless eaters.

No thanks.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
8

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
8

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: pexx421

It seems that apart from trying to rewrite history to suit your views you have learned nothing from history.
Millons dead/starved/murdered in the name of socialism/communism but its all somehow the Wests fault?
Why dont you move to Venezuela?

ah. So you are you saying we didnt attempt to assassinate their rulers? or to foment coups? Are you saying we dont have them embargoed from foreign trade? Or that we havent stolen billions of their dollars? which part of these do you disagree with?

It seems that anyone who disagrees with you you call idiots etc.
Not much point in trying to engage with a poster who is so dogmatic and closed minded.
Typical socialist attempts to purge dissent.
Comrade.

No, it’s more like when people here patronize, make insulting personal attacks, and RESPOND TO STATEMENTS THEY INVENT RATHER THAN STATEMENTS WE MAKE, then I respond in kind. You and others like you devolve to insults and personal attacks, and then act all affronted when I respond in kind. If you don’t like it, don’t go there!

So I’ll ask again, which of the facts that I’ve stated about us actions in Venezuela, Argentina, Honduras etc do you deny? It’s very simple. You stated these nations situation are the results of “SOCIALISM!!” I pointed out other factors. Rather than discussing them you resort to personal attacks. To me, that demonstrates an unwillingness to consider context because your position can’t bear it.

The biggest examples of how socialism/communism ends with a police state, repression of freedom, millions of citizens dead or murdered and general misery are Soviet Russia and China so lets discuss the biggies, eh?

Also, please don't shout.

Right. So you’re response is to refuse to discuss the points I made. Let’s ignore facts that don’t fit our narrative, shall we?

That is pretty ironic as it is you that is rewriting history to fit your beliefs.
Soviet Russia and China and the lessons of history seem not to fit your narrative.

I believe you are the one who mentioned venezuela initially. And where did i "rewrite history"? Did I anywhere on here state that the governments of china or russia were good for their people? I accept that there are and were governments who made claims to be socialist that were bad for their people. And i also point out that governments that use policies that are often criticized as socialism, are often good for their people as well. Such as the nordic model....or any western industrialized nation other than the us.

Socialism does not and never has worked.
Learn from history.
Norway? No.
Please give an example of a socialist country that actually works.

So whats the problem with norway? Are you saying that they are not socialist, that they dont have socialist policies, or that they are not successful?
Please give me an example of a "socialist" country that we did not engage in economic, political, and military warfare with.

Erm...you just said that you know Norway is not a socialist country?

We? Im a Brit.
Has the US been involved in military warfare with China and or Russia?
I must have missed WW3.
How did that work out?
Did we win?

Well, yes we have done all that. The us, Japan, and France invaded Russia right after their civil war I believe. And the us forced China at gunpoint to allow our opium into their markets.

But I actually meant to say that we engaged in economic, political OR Military warfare with all of them. And we have. We pushed nato to the border of Russia, and went after all of their allies in an attempt to neuter them politically. We worked with Saudi to fix oil prices in an effort to destroy their economy. And we just ended an economic war against China. Also, sanctions are an act of war, terrorism really, and we use those against every single one of them.

Be wary of anything ending in ISM

L88

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
8

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
8

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: pexx421

It seems that apart from trying to rewrite history to suit your views you have learned nothing from history.
Millons dead/starved/murdered in the name of socialism/communism but its all somehow the Wests fault?
Why dont you move to Venezuela?

ah. So you are you saying we didnt attempt to assassinate their rulers? or to foment coups? Are you saying we dont have them embargoed from foreign trade? Or that we havent stolen billions of their dollars? which part of these do you disagree with?

It seems that anyone who disagrees with you you call idiots etc.
Not much point in trying to engage with a poster who is so dogmatic and closed minded.
Typical socialist attempts to purge dissent.
Comrade.

No, it’s more like when people here patronize, make insulting personal attacks, and RESPOND TO STATEMENTS THEY INVENT RATHER THAN STATEMENTS WE MAKE, then I respond in kind. You and others like you devolve to insults and personal attacks, and then act all affronted when I respond in kind. If you don’t like it, don’t go there!

So I’ll ask again, which of the facts that I’ve stated about us actions in Venezuela, Argentina, Honduras etc do you deny? It’s very simple. You stated these nations situation are the results of “SOCIALISM!!” I pointed out other factors. Rather than discussing them you resort to personal attacks. To me, that demonstrates an unwillingness to consider context because your position can’t bear it.

The biggest examples of how socialism/communism ends with a police state, repression of freedom, millions of citizens dead or murdered and general misery are Soviet Russia and China so lets discuss the biggies, eh?

Also, please don't shout.

Right. So you’re response is to refuse to discuss the points I made. Let’s ignore facts that don’t fit our narrative, shall we?

That is pretty ironic as it is you that is rewriting history to fit your beliefs.
Soviet Russia and China and the lessons of history seem not to fit your narrative.

I believe you are the one who mentioned venezuela initially. And where did i "rewrite history"? Did I anywhere on here state that the governments of china or russia were good for their people? I accept that there are and were governments who made claims to be socialist that were bad for their people. And i also point out that governments that use policies that are often criticized as socialism, are often good for their people as well. Such as the nordic model....or any western industrialized nation other than the us.

Socialism does not and never has worked.
Learn from history.
Norway? No.
Please give an example of a socialist country that actually works.

So whats the problem with norway? Are you saying that they are not socialist, that they dont have socialist policies, or that they are not successful?
Please give me an example of a "socialist" country that we did not engage in economic, political, and military warfare with.

Erm...you just said that you know Norway is not a socialist country?

We? Im a Brit.
Has the US been involved in military warfare with China and or Russia?
I must have missed WW3.
How did that work out?
Did we win?

Well, yes we have done all that. The us, Japan, and France invaded Russia right after their civil war I believe. And the us forced China at gunpoint to allow our opium into their markets.

But I actually meant to say that we engaged in economic, political OR Military warfare with all of them. And we have. We pushed nato to the border of Russia, and went after all of their allies in an attempt to neuter them politically. We worked with Saudi to fix oil prices in an effort to destroy their economy. And we just ended an economic war against China. Also, sanctions are an act of war, terrorism really, and we use those against every single one of them.

History and actual facts are not your strongpoints, I gather?

originally posted by: oldcarpy
L88

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
8

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
8

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: pexx421

It seems that apart from trying to rewrite history to suit your views you have learned nothing from history.
Millons dead/starved/murdered in the name of socialism/communism but its all somehow the Wests fault?
Why dont you move to Venezuela?

ah. So you are you saying we didnt attempt to assassinate their rulers? or to foment coups? Are you saying we dont have them embargoed from foreign trade? Or that we havent stolen billions of their dollars? which part of these do you disagree with?

It seems that anyone who disagrees with you you call idiots etc.
Not much point in trying to engage with a poster who is so dogmatic and closed minded.
Typical socialist attempts to purge dissent.
Comrade.

No, it’s more like when people here patronize, make insulting personal attacks, and RESPOND TO STATEMENTS THEY INVENT RATHER THAN STATEMENTS WE MAKE, then I respond in kind. You and others like you devolve to insults and personal attacks, and then act all affronted when I respond in kind. If you don’t like it, don’t go there!

So I’ll ask again, which of the facts that I’ve stated about us actions in Venezuela, Argentina, Honduras etc do you deny? It’s very simple. You stated these nations situation are the results of “SOCIALISM!!” I pointed out other factors. Rather than discussing them you resort to personal attacks. To me, that demonstrates an unwillingness to consider context because your position can’t bear it.

The biggest examples of how socialism/communism ends with a police state, repression of freedom, millions of citizens dead or murdered and general misery are Soviet Russia and China so lets discuss the biggies, eh?

Also, please don't shout.

Right. So you’re response is to refuse to discuss the points I made. Let’s ignore facts that don’t fit our narrative, shall we?

That is pretty ironic as it is you that is rewriting history to fit your beliefs.
Soviet Russia and China and the lessons of history seem not to fit your narrative.

I believe you are the one who mentioned venezuela initially. And where did i "rewrite history"? Did I anywhere on here state that the governments of china or russia were good for their people? I accept that there are and were governments who made claims to be socialist that were bad for their people. And i also point out that governments that use policies that are often criticized as socialism, are often good for their people as well. Such as the nordic model....or any western industrialized nation other than the us.

Socialism does not and never has worked.
Learn from history.
Norway? No.
Please give an example of a socialist country that actually works.

So whats the problem with norway? Are you saying that they are not socialist, that they dont have socialist policies, or that they are not successful?
Please give me an example of a "socialist" country that we did not engage in economic, political, and military warfare with.

Erm...you just said that you know Norway is not a socialist country?

We? Im a Brit.
Has the US been involved in military warfare with China and or Russia?
I must have missed WW3.
How did that work out?
Did we win?

Well, yes we have done all that. The us, Japan, and France invaded Russia right after their civil war I believe. And the us forced China at gunpoint to allow our opium into their markets.

But I actually meant to say that we engaged in economic, political OR Military warfare with all of them. And we have. We pushed nato to the border of Russia, and went after all of their allies in an attempt to neuter them politically. We worked with Saudi to fix oil prices in an effort to destroy their economy. And we just ended an economic war against China. Also, sanctions are an act of war, terrorism really, and we use those against every single one of them.

History and actual facts are not your strongpoints, I gather?

Right. Because you’ve been so good about sourcing a single refutation to any point I’ve made here.

a reply to: pexx421
Hang on - Napoleon etc "invaded" russia a very long time ago but you do realise that at the time Russia was not socialist/ communist?

Please tell me you knew that?