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Supposedly socialism has killed 200 million people

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posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: pexx421

So, whats your point about Norway?




posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:35 AM
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So you think if we just take the “human flaw” out of socialism then it will finally work ? Next: bread lines, yah the Soviet Union became a great power with bread lines... and then ....did you forget the ending ?



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Honest question here to the communists in the room.

If people living under Communism and Socialism are so damn equal, why did the Soviet elite live in cordoned off, private districts while the peasants pulled potatoes out of the ground 18 hours a day at gunpoint..?

Why wasn't Stalin doing his equal share of potato pulling ?

And why was there a need to stand over the workers with guns if the soviet was such a free place and why were so many people shot dead for trying to cross over the wall ?

Also why, if the system is so perfect, are people in Venezuela eating family pets, raiding rural areas, zoos and dumps for food and dying of illnesses because there is no medicine.

Let me guess, none of that ever happened, its all lies, the history books lie, the imagery and film and first hand accounts are all fake..!?!

Oh and by the way, it isn't 200 million, it's more around 96 million mark, led mainly by China and the Soviet Union.

Five million alone died during the Russian famine of 1921–22 and a further 15 million between 1922 and the day the wall came down, died in Gulags, were executed, tortured or worked to death.

To outright deny any of this simply to protect your wet dream of a communist utopia, is to disrespect the millions that died under the rule of previous regimes.

Communists of today would be much better off accepting and acknowledging what happened and explain how they would make it work this time round, with no loss of life, no slavery, no gulags, no guns and how they would ensure every person was cared for and happy..!!

You may find a better more open response from naysayers.
edit on 5-11-2019 by Ironclad1964 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:36 AM
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originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Fools

You have obviously never known anyone who resides in Norway.
The myth of Nordic socialism is partially created by a confusion between socialism, meaning government exerting control or ownership of businesses, and the welfare state in the form of government-provided social safety net programs. However, the left’s embrace of socialism is not merely a case of redefining a word. Simply look at the long-running affinity of leftists with socialist dictators in Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela for proof many on the left long for real socialism.

To the extent that the left wants to point to an example of successful socialism, not just generous welfare states, the Nordic countries are actually a poor case to cite. Regardless of the perception, in reality the Nordic countries practice mostly free market economics paired with high taxes exchanged for generous government entitlement programs.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:37 AM
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originally posted by: Turkenstein
a reply to: dfnj2015

I have a friend from Venezuela. You can ask her how awesome socialism is. There country went from top of the world to a #hole country in no time after moving to socialism. The lack of readily available common resources lead to many deaths. It lead to many more when the people of Venezuela realized they had made a mistake and wanted things to go back to the way they were before socialism.
Please leave fantasy land, aka- college campus safe space.


Right. It was socialism that did that. If you ignore the fact that during Chavez’s early reign they eradicated illiteracy, raised wages, provided free healthcare and education, had greater freedom and citizen participation and govt. Their current situation has nothing to do with the fact that we attempted multiple coups and assassination attempts, cut them off from global trade, embargoed their nation, stole billions of their dollars, engaged their business owners to not sell their products in venezuela, engaged in economic espionage, sabotaged their electric programs, etc. Let’s not ignore facts when presenting our own skewed prejudices shall we? Myopia hurts.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:45 AM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
So you think if we just take the “human flaw” out of socialism then it will finally work ? Next: bread lines, yah the Soviet Union became a great power with bread lines... and then ....did you forget the ending ?


oh, we recall the ending. The soviets tried the neoliberal capitalist experiment, and the whole nation devolved to oligarchs and peasants, until putin eventually arose and brought the nation back to prominence again. Strangeley, Putin was a huge believer in the the west and in the US specifically, and thought partnership with us was the route to prosperity. Until he realized that the US is only your friend until you disagree with them or try to practice any autonomy.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: pexx421




Actually more people lived in multi generational homes during the heights of our crony capitalism. Like in the Great Depression, and what have began moving into now, as 47% of Americans live on poverty wages. Strange at a time when us gdp is at its highest. Strange, at a time when all of you say how well the economy is doing. Could it be that the traditional statistics really are only made to reflect how things are going for the wealthy elite, and not the working class?


What EFFING country do you live in ?

Here in AMERICA people have never been paid MORE, have bigger homes. HAVE MORE STUFF and technology does most of the work in the 21st century.

But that is what socialism really boils down to.

Socialists want more stuff, and they think someone else ought to pay for their existence in this world.

And get back to me when you learn the difference between an economic model (capitalism) and a CRONY bastardization of STATE ownership(SOCIALISM) aka COMMUNISM because some people just don't want to call a spade a spade.
edit on 5-11-2019 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: Ironclad1964




If people living under Communism and Socialism are so damn equal, why did the Soviet elite live in cordoned off, private districts while the peasants pulled potatoes out of the ground 18 hours a day at gunpoint..?


Wasting time.

Socialists just don't get it.

Even if we point to the current state of California.

Snip rolling in the streets, people fleeing there in droves, and dogs outnumber kids.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:07 AM
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a reply to: pexx421

Did you read the article?



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: Ironclad1964
a reply to: dfnj2015

Honest question here to the communists in the room.

If people living under Communism and Socialism are so damn equal, why did the Soviet elite live in cordoned off, private districts while the peasants pulled potatoes out of the ground 18 hours a day at gunpoint..?

Why wasn't Stalin doing his equal share of potato pulling ?

And why was there a need to stand over the workers with guns if the soviet was such a free place and why were so many people shot dead for trying to cross over the wall ?

Also why, if the system is so perfect, are people in Venezuela eating family pets, raiding rural areas, zoos and dumps for food and dying of illnesses because there is no medicine.

Let me guess, none of that ever happened, its all lies, the imagery and film and first hand accounts are all fake..!?!


well, your "honest question" is belied by the fact you provide your own answer for us. At any rate, allow me to retort.

First is the myth that any of us want "equal". Apparently you have trouble understanding what "equal" means. And you all try to use it as if we mean all people should get paid the same wage. This is a fallacy, set up by you because its easy to attack, rather than addressing our real positions. NOBODY thinks all people should have the same money. Thats not "equal" that we aspire to. "Equal" means we have equal say as government citizizens. That justice and the justice system applies to us equally. And that multiple people with equal ability will get reasonably equal opportunity to improve their position. As in a real meritocracy, rather than richistan where we live now. Equal means that the wealthy arent able to abuse us with their power, while being protected from our retaliations. These and more are some of the things "equal" means. It absolutely does NOT mean we all make the same wage. Get it? not that difficult a concept.

As to stalins potatoes. Well, a picture of the pinkertons in 19th century us comes to mind, looking exactly as you describe, standing over workers with guns, etc. Its easy to make a fallacious point if you ignore all the factors. What was russia during that time? were they an authoritarian dictatorship? Did they just experience a revolution, a civil war, an invasion by france, US, japan, and 2 world wars, all in a span of some 30-40 years? Sounds more likely it was chaos, rather than any sort of actual govt system at the time, to me. What is the natural response, EVERY single time, of a nation that is threatened or attacked? Its to limit freedoms, and exert massive federal control. During the same period americans were forced, against their will, to go to war, bleed and die, for causes they did not necessarily believe in. Women were forced to work in jobs where they never had before, and then had all those jobs taken away from them. The US was going through a massive attack on its own people to destroy any leftist or socialist leaning citizens, throwing them in jail, torturing them, disappearing them. neighbor was spying on neighbor, etc. And what do we have now? The patriot act, rendition and torture, assassination of us citizens, bill of rights drastically restricted, lack of abject subservience to police punishable by instant death, no knock warrants, civil asset forfeiture (legalized theft by police), unending wars on unthreatening nations, etc. Is it comparable to russias breadlines? No, but we didnt experience nearly what they did.

As to venezuela....ive answered this many times, and one or two posts up as well. It strangely resembles cuba, and other places who decided to try socialism, or at least to try using resources to benefit people. And the us response to these is standard. Economic warfare, NGO's fomenting coups, assassination attempts, biological and germ warfare, sanctions, theft of their money, cut off from world markets, Hell, we actually engaged with saudi 8 years ago to flood the market with oil, upending the WHOLE global oil economy just to attack the economies of russia, iran, and venezuela. There are no ends to the lengths we will go to in disrupting any nation with an economic modely that competes with our capitalism for legitimacy. From raping and murdering nuns, priests, teachers and economists all through argentina, to installing brutal totalitarian dictators all over the world, to initiating civil wars where millions die, to, well. You get it. We even fomented a coup and installed a dictator in honduras JUST because their president wanted to raise minimum wage. WTH yo?

But, let ME guess. None of that ever happened, its all lies, the imagery and film and first hand accounts are all fake....!?! or its all irrelevant, and all this is just what happens when you try to pay higher wages, educate people, and give them a small cut of the profit made from their natural resources?



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:16 AM
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a reply to: JohnProctor

yes. I read the zero hedge article. I also have closely followed world affairs for the past dozen or so years. I closely researched libya and what was going on there prior to our invasion. I am pretty well versed with africom and our involvement there, the effects of the imf and world bank, the profit we make keeping the nation drastically divided, and the conclusions i draw are somewhat different. Have you been to tanzania? I havent. However one of my best friends and his wife lived there. They described how the corporations there pay children to go around sabotaging public water lines so that people are forced to buy their bottled water. This is an example of the lengths unfettered capitalists will go to for profit. There are, literally, uncountable examples, there, here, and everywhere else, of unregulated wealth and power intentionally sabotaging the poor and working class in order to extract the profits of their labor.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

If you are calling Chairman Mao's China 'a sustained success' you are definitely mentally challenged. Why do you think the developed world was having to ship them food all the time?


The Great Chinese Famine (Chinese: 三年大饑荒, "three years of famine") was a period in the People's Republic of China between the years 1959 and 1961 characterized by widespread famine. The policies of ruler Mao Zedong contributed to the famine, although the relative weights of the contributions are disputed.

Hey what do you know, this is the same crap that happened in Russia after the Communists took power. Why? Forced centralization of farming and labour to the detriment of productivity.

And just after China got done starving to death, then they started killing eachother over a little red book:
Cultural Revolution
[ˈˌkəlCH(ə)rəl ˌrevəˈl(y)o͞oSHən]

DEFINITION
a political upheaval in China 1966–76 intended to bring about a return to revolutionary Maoist beliefs. Largely carried forward by the Red Guard, it resulted in attacks on intellectuals, a large-scale purge in party posts, and the appearance of a personality cult around Mao Zedong. It led to considerable economic dislocation and was gradually brought to a halt by premier Zhou Enlai

What a success!



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:22 AM
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a reply to: pexx421

It seems that apart from trying to rewrite history to suit your views you have learned nothing from history.
Millons dead/starved/murdered in the name of socialism/communism but its all somehow the Wests fault?
Why dont you move to Venezuela?
edit on 5-11-2019 by oldcarpy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:25 AM
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a reply to: pexx421
The bringing up of the African Union is key to Libya "success" and what led to its demise. My father and I made a documentary on the 10 EU style regional governments under development as an end run around national sovereignty and an incremental structuring of a global socialist system.

youtu.be...

As a fellow researcher yourself, you should find this interesting. It starts with addressing Gaddafi and the AU. I could say more with it, thoroughly documented, then I could in a message board.
edit on 5-11-2019 by JohnProctor because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: pexx421




Actually more people lived in multi generational homes during the heights of our crony capitalism. Like in the Great Depression, and what have began moving into now, as 47% of Americans live on poverty wages. Strange at a time when us gdp is at its highest. Strange, at a time when all of you say how well the economy is doing. Could it be that the traditional statistics really are only made to reflect how things are going for the wealthy elite, and not the working class?


What EFFING country do you live in ?

Here in AMERICA people have never been paid MORE, have bigger homes. HAVE MORE STUFF and technology does most of the work in the 21st century.

But that is what socialism really boils down to.

Socialists want more stuff, and they think someone else ought to pay for their existence in this world.

And get back to me when you learn the difference between an economic model (capitalism) and a CRONY bastardization of STATE ownership(SOCIALISM) aka COMMUNISM because some people just don't want to call a spade a spade.


I live in an effing country where 50% of the people who DO work make $15/hour or less. With increasing debt, declining benefits, where retirement will not exist in one more generation, except for the permanently retired trust fund babies. Where literacy is declining, the middle class is SHRINKING.

I live in a country where idiots like you are fed erroneous facts which convince you that life is great here, but at the same time have you thinking that california looks like "escape from new york" and you all think youre fuking snake pliskin.

In case you havent noticed, the majority of new homes are shrinking. Their bedrooms are smaller, their square footage is smaller, their yards are smaller. Except for middle class and upper class homes.....and the middle class and upper class make up about 5% of all people now.

Also, in case you havent noticed, california is currently ranked about 19th for best states. People, like you, are constantly raving about "Cali is so bad! Its a liberal hell! people are dying of poverty in the streets!". We all know what the worst states and cities are in the US. Why arent you harping on them? Are they not liberal enough to be targets for your narrative?

Know what? you are so full of # with your crap lies and fake presentations, personal attacks and antagonism, just go fk urself. I dont have time for your crony capital apologist partisan hackery.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:31 AM
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originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: pexx421

It seems that apart from trying to rewrite history to suit your views you have learned nothing from history.
Millons dead/starved/murdered in the name of socialism/communism but its all somehow the Wests fault?
Why dont you move to Venezuela?


ah. So you are you saying we didnt attempt to assassinate their rulers? or to foment coups? Are you saying we dont have them embargoed from foreign trade? Or that we havent stolen billions of their dollars? which part of these do you disagree with?



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: pexx421

LIFE is EFFING AWESOME in 'Murica.

No matter what you think.

Errooneus 'facts' eh ?

That's rich for the pun.

HouseHold assets currently sit at $116 Trillion.

Those 'nonexistent' benefits aka unfunded liability because we're owed sit at over $126 TRILLION.

So get off it.

www.usdebtclock.org...



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: JohnProctor

Thanks John, for your civility and honest attempts to add to the discussion. I’ll check it out.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:40 AM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: pexx421

LIFE is EFFING AWESOME in 'Murica.

No matter what you think.

Errooneus 'facts' eh ?

That's rich for the pun.

HouseHold assets currently sit at $116 Trillion.

Those 'nonexistent' benefits aka unfunded liability because we're owed sit at over $126 TRILLION.

So get off it.

www.usdebtclock.org...


Yeah. No context at all there. How about the fact that 90% of Americans own none of that $116 trillion, and are economically underwater?? Or that those “unfunded liabilities” are largely in the form of inflated debt owed to corporations who have hyper inflated prices?

America, the richest nation in the world where the majority of people live on the poverty line, and will for the rest of their lives. Where the children of today will be poorer, and have shorter lives than their parents. That’s not a sign of serious issues at all. Your lack of ability to recognize trends and extrapolate the obvious outcome are a sign of serious social programming.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:44 AM
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a reply to: pexx421

The CONTEXT was the whole GD page.

www.usdebtclock.org...

And 47% don't live in poverty.

It's around 11%



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