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Supposedly socialism has killed 200 million people

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posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:10 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: pexx421

Individual rights are not dependent on others, only socialism/communism claims "rights" that are dependent upon the forced participation of others.


Ah. So all the nurses, docs and hospital workers and teachers in every other western industrialized nation are slaves then? Along with our police, firemen, public school teachers. Meaningless gibberish.


Under your socialism, pretty much. As someone who works in the medical field, I can attest.




posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:11 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: pexx421




If you ask any socialist,


If you ask any communist.

THEY CALL THEMSELVES SOCIALISTS.



The term "Communist state" is used by Western historians, political scientists and media to refer to these countries.However, contrary to Western usage, these states do not describe themselves as "communist" nor do they claim to have achieved communism—they refer to themselves as Socialist or Workers' states that are in the process of constructing socialism.[6][7][8][9]


No matter how much lipstick you put on this pig. It's still an authoritarian,bloody PIG.


And we call ourselves a Democratic, representative society. But the facts are that many people believe in socialist values, much as you might like to deny it. And many people do not believe in communist values.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:13 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: pexx421

Individual rights are not dependent on others, only socialism/communism claims "rights" that are dependent upon the forced participation of others.


Ah. So all the nurses, docs and hospital workers and teachers in every other western industrialized nation are slaves then? Along with our police, firemen, public school teachers. Meaningless gibberish.


Under your socialism, pretty much. As someone who works in the medical field, I can attest.


Right wingers on here sure seem to hate context. Like all ideologues. Are you a medical professional in Europe?? I’m a medical professional too, and I’d be perfectly fine with it. Our current system (American) is totally unsustainable and defunct. And what is “my socialism”? More nonsensical gibberish.
edit on 5-11-2019 by pexx421 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:23 PM
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a reply to: pexx421

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."
-Voltaire



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:43 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: pexx421

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."
-Voltaire


Exactly.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:02 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: oldcarpy

Bolivia seems to be making a pretty strong go of it.

And look at this! Soon as you mention Bolivia as an example of a socialist nation doing well, there’s the US like clockwork, outed in an attempt to foment a coup. With their standard poster board child living in the US who was exiled from Bolivia for corruption slated to be their attempted new dictator. With the help of ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. Yes, it is always the US’s fault. And I’m sure this won’t negatively impact their socialism in any way.

www.informationclearinghouse.info...



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:15 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: pexx421
Own land?? Sure! People have owned land in every version of socialism I know of. Property right? Yep. People own property in every country we’ve called socialism. Contrary to the us, where you have to pay for your land every year or it gets taken away.
The goal of socialism is communism and the goal of communism is abolition of private property rights. Have you read the communist manifesto ? Part of the abolition of private property rights is the excessive taxation and redistribution of wealth. Get a clue.


That’s a logical fallacy. The goal of socialism for most everyone that supports it, and keeping in mind here we’re talking democratic socialism ala Nordic model, is a more just society, where opportunity is based on merit, not parentage and nepotism or accumulated wealth, and NOT communism. If you ask any socialist, most will tell you they do not support communism, just as most capitalists don’t support monopolistic oligarchy.
Bernie Sanders is a communist who calls himself a democratic socialist in order to obscure the reality. It’s a neat trick dontcha think .... it’s worked on you and many others.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Sure. There’s plenty evidence to support this imaginary theory.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:21 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Sure. There’s plenty evidence to support this imaginary theory.
Are you not aware of his dealings and activities of the past? I think you should take the blinders off.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:26 PM
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originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Sure. There’s plenty evidence to support this imaginary theory.
Are you not aware of his dealings and activities of the past? I think you should take the blinders off.


I’m aware. To me that falls somewhere above trying to rape someone at a party, and still being qualified for Supreme Court.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 11:27 PM
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originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Sure. There’s plenty evidence to support this imaginary theory.
Are you not aware of his dealings and activities of the past? I think you should take the blinders off.


I’m aware. To me that falls somewhere above trying to rape someone at a party, and still being qualified for Supreme Court.
Well that would be the difference between hearsay and history. Why do socialists refuse to admit Sanders is a communist ?

bachelor’s degree in political science in 1964. At UC, Sanders joined the Young Peoples Socialist League (youth wing of the Socialist Party USA) as well as the Congress of Racial Equality and the Student Peace Union. He also was an organizer for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee; participated in an American Friends Service Committee project at a California psychiatric hospital; and worked briefly (as an organizer) for the United Packinghouse Workers Union (UPWU), which, like all the CIO unions, had a number of influential Communists among its ranks. At that time, UPWU was under investigation by the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

November 1976—all on the LUP ticket. Sanders’s LUP platform called for the nationalization of all U.S. banks; public ownership of all utilities, drug companies, capital, and major means of production (such as factories); and the establishment of a worker-controlled federal government. According to the Guardian, a press release from his 1974 campaign stated that as a means of addressing the problem of rising energy prices, Sanders advocated “the public takeover of all privately owned electric companies in Vermont.” Moreover, Sanders called for a 100% income tax on America’s highest income earners. (Sanders chaired the LUP from 1973-75.)

roblem of the fleeing corporations must be dealt with on the national level by legislation which will bring about the public ownership of the major means of production and their conversion into worker-controlled enterprises.” In a 1976 LUP brochure
www.discoverthenetworks.org...
Actions and affiliations which are communist. Perhaps you could notice that you have not researched thoroughly your claims. I’m
Not sure if you are just playing around, or you really don’t know the definition of communism.
edit on 5-11-2019 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-11-2019 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 11:50 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
I'm sick and tired of people making the lame argument communism or socialism is responsible for millions of deaths. The problem with this argument is leaders of every type of government, left or right, have killed millions of people. Government leadership turning on its people and then killing millions of people is a flaw of human nature. Lord Acton's famous quote about power and corruption comes to mind. People with power simply cannot help themselves from becoming the biggest a holes directly proportional to the amount of power they perceive they have.

I have heard how communism and socialism kills for a long time. The thing is take the soviet union after WWII. They went from nothing to a second greatest world power in like 20 years with socialism. Take China for example. When chairman Mao took power the life expectancy was like 35 years old. In 20 years life expectancy rose to by 30 years to the mid 60s.

I'm not saying socialism or communism is the end-all be-all of government. There are pluses and minuses in every form of government. Greed for example in laissez faire capitalism is extremely motivating in getting work done. And most people agree people who do not work as hard should not get the same share of privileges.

I think we really need to focus on the problems of human nature and the source of corruption of government. I don't think blaming socialism for problems in human nature is not the right approach. We need systems of government that not only expect corrupt human nature but are designed in such a way corruption is simply not possible. Take the way casinos manage money of the gaming floor. It's very rare dealers get away with stealing the house money. There are just way too many cameras and checks-and-balances in the system. So good government is possible.

I would like to see our government return to trying to solve kitchen table problems of voters the way it did in the 1970s. Socialism and government is the only way in my opinion. Corporations are bounded by laws to only serve shareholders. And I'm pretty sure the billionaires who own everything are not going to share anything meaningful anytime soon. People in general are just not skilled enough, strong enough, or smart enough to achieve a level of income necessary to grow the economy. I think government has a role in promoting the commonwealth and general welfare.

Just like guns don't kill people do. Socialism doesn't kill evil corrupt politicians do.



But today's socialism would be a disaster.

Many new comers in many host nations, many illegal aliens as well.

Today's socialism would take a gamble on the countrys economics by providing and spending as much as they can on free college, free health care and other services.

People who work enjoy paying for good healthcare and paying taxes in return for good ssevices.

There are huge populations that will never work a day or contribute a dime in taxes, or care one second about their health....but they want what those who work want.

People who work will not want to see their money go to illegal aliens, anchor babies, or those who will be nothing but a drain on society.

And you can tell today's socialist ideas and deals have nefarious intentions.

The gambled and risks are so huge and so expensive most can see it is meant to hurt the America people.



edit on 5-11-2019 by Bloodworth because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2019 @ 02:33 AM
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a reply to: Bloodworth

Now the minute you mix nationalism with socialism people instantly assume you are a fascist and yet that could not be further from the truth.

So let's have a look at the bible, just a few passages here.
www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...
biblereasons.com...

As you can see Socialism has nothing to do with MARX or LENNIN or any of those other figures of recent ATHEIST socialism and anarchy, it is not communism but as for a welfare state, well go and look at the old testament there were Sanctuary city's - cue public housing of a sort or a prototype of it, Leaving the stubble in the field so that the widow's and poor could glean enough so that they would not starve, a day of giving to the poor and many other thing's that can be seen to be the true spiritual ancestor of the welfare state.

CHRISTIAN socialism is not Communism, Greed and capitalism likewise are NOT Christian.

There are passages about NOT casting your pearl before swine but there is also the parable of the good Samaritan.

Attitudes and belief's such as yours (sorry not an attack on you but I disagree with your point) and a few other's here make me lament for the human race, the corporations and capitalists are not your saviors they are leading humanity to a precipice and only an ethical system that cares about the people can save it.

Until we create something better socialism (Moderate like the British Labour model) is the only thing that work's but what you fear is a country being taken over by those flocking to it to take advantage of generous welfare system's.

Now let's correct that a moment and make you think.

Those welfare systems were put in place for the people of the nation's that put them in place and NOT for migrant's to exploit (though genuine refugee's who with any decency would turn such away - genuine one's there are a lot of bogus claim's).

So what went wrong.

That's right a deliberate policy of letting foreigners and other's exploit them SERVED the purposes of those that wanted them to be destroyed, that wanted those welfare systems' GONE.

Think about it, do you think it is by accident that Scandinavia was flooded with NON EU migrant's whom destroyed there welfare system and turned there nation's into crime haven's.

Do you think it is an accident that on a relatively smaller scale a similar thing has happened in England, France, Germany and the Netherlands.

Here is a secret, on open and glaring secret it is by DESIGN that this has taken place and there are two group's responsible both in positions of power.

First those that wanted to destroy the welfare system could see no easier method than to make it become over burdened and the quickest way to achieve that was through runaway migration, this would give them both the cultural strain, the financial burden and the economic impetus they NEEDED to justify there anti socialist anti reform policy's.

The Second were the Anarchists whom today often call themselves internationalists (to be taken separate from corporate one world government internationalists whose interests are purely mercantile), they want to destroy society so that it can be reshaped believing erroneously that they can pick up the pieces and have there revolution's, they do infiltrate socialist movement's but are the true Militant component and have nothing to do whatsoever with true socialism, they are the MARXISTS not the Christian Socialists that decay the body of moderate socialist movement's much as the corporate right wing interests and TORY's decay the conservative movement of the UK with there own equally and arguably worse right wing (Economic and class system) belief's.

You are missing the point that neither system is worse, if we vote in Labour (AND I DAMNED WELL HOPE WE DO) in the UK and they turned out to be a disaster that would be a gift horse for the Tory's and they would then be back in power for the next eight to twelve years following that BUT IF they turn out to be a success which is something the TORY's are terrified of they may find that after the destruction they have wrought on our nation over the past decade that they will be the one's out of power for the nest eight to twelve years, what they also fear is the possibility that Corbyn whom is not under there control may order a proper investigation into allegations of previous election rigging and tampering which may have put the Tory's into power when they should not have been such as the last Neil Kinnock election (though he obviously accepted a pay off and was probably also blackmailed into accepting his defeat on the night when Labour had been celebrating what looked to be a landslide victory until the final count was in) or the Milliband election were there was that ballot paper fiasco.

Or do you think that food bank's, people starving on our streets, kid's with no food going to school with no clothing other than rags is acceptable in the 21st century in BRITAIN.

edit on 6-11-2019 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2019 @ 04:19 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

I am sick and tired, alongside millions of other people whom have escape socialism and communism, of reading claims by people whom have lived their entire lives in capitalist nations and have more than most people have in socialist/communist countries...

I am sick and tired of reading the same old lies people like you keep regurgitating which were used in the past to goat people into embracing socialism and/or communism...

I am sick and tired of idiots calling for the most oppressive forms of government to be implemented in the one country which has accepted more people whom escaped from socialism and/or communism in the world...

I am sick and tired of these lies you try to spread being presented as if they were true, or that the evil in socialism and/or communism cannot really be blamed on these systems when people like you ignore the actual policies that socialism and communism demand implemented...

Millions of Americans, whether or not they came to the U.S. escaping socialism and communism, will not accept either socialism nor communism in the U.S. you will have to literally murder millions of us...

But hey, a left-wing militant group (Weather Underground) already debated what they had to do with millions of Americans that would not accept socialism/communism and an FBI agent heard what that plan was all about...








edit on 6-11-2019 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.



posted on Nov, 6 2019 @ 04:25 AM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

Charity and goodwill towards others is not socialism... Americans have been charitable for a long time without socialism, except now as the "REEEE crowd" are less charitable even though they claim the contrary...

I find it ironic how certain people keep on trying to claim that Christianity is socialist... It Is not, and Jesus was neither a socialist nor a revolutionary... Jesus gives you a choice, socialism doesn't give you a choice, it FORCES YOU same as communism...



posted on Nov, 6 2019 @ 05:38 AM
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Thing is, sanders is not socialist now, or communist. None of the things he proposes are. However, as to the things he supported back then. I firmly approve of nationalized banks. Private banks bombed the world economy 10 years ago. I also firmly approve of nationalizing natural monopolies such as utilities. All the times I’ve had private utilities the prices have spiked, while services have dropped. Sanders as president would still have congress and the senate, so it’s not like they wouldn’t temper any radical ideas he might hold in reserve.

Lastly, it’s no surprise you can’t tell the difference between someone who has honesty and integrity, if you voted for someone like trump, who even most of his supporters will recognize is constantly spouting lies.

And when we talk about “citizen purges” let’s not forget that this was exactly what McCarthyism was, and it was a massive backlash from the capitalist community against the very groups, afl/cio, labor movement and civil rights movement, in response to the fact that they have the people the largest chance in history of actually having power and real representation in this nation. Since then, the country began its decline, largely culminating with what we have today. Severely curtailed rights and freedoms and corporate dominance of govt and policy.



posted on Nov, 6 2019 @ 05:42 AM
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'Democratic' Socialism.

What a effing oxymoron.

Or is it just morons that keep pushing it.

A Great Lie to convince people they get a say when they DON'T EVER GET A SAY and they become property of the state.



posted on Nov, 6 2019 @ 05:51 AM
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a reply to: neo96
What, like you have a say now? And let’s not forget, the cops can apparently look in your window and shoot you in the back with no repercussions. They can bust in your door at 2am, shoot you, throw a grenade in your babies crib, and no repercussions. You have no rights to privacy, your property can be stolen at will, you can be locked away without representation or due process. Your vote counts for nothing when it competes with corporate profit. And Epstein didn’t commit suicide.



posted on Nov, 6 2019 @ 05:53 AM
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Why do you think the Republican Party is the corporate party? (Slightly more so than the dems, at any rate). It’s because the wealthy elite want you to help them strip the govt of its power to keep them in check. So they can treat you like they do every third world resource and extraction population.



posted on Nov, 6 2019 @ 06:09 AM
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I think the very nature of Communism and mob rule is what forsaken it.

It is not true, what is good for the goose is good for the flock. Everyone requires their own needs and works at their own pace. Some people are fine being lazy, not having a job and collecting welfare benefits. Others like to work hard, pay for freeloaders benefits and provide for themselves and their family.

In a communist society, the family becomes the aggressor, and the state will work to dismantle the foundation of a family unit. They'll make their people dependent on the state, rather than the family. This will breed a society of the spoiled and still remain poor.

Are you tired of paying taxes? Guess what...they'll be TEN fold in a communist society (indirectly), because although you may consider the work you do to be valuable and worth a good amount of money, in a communist society, you work for free essentially, but at least your crap government sponsored rent control, food stamps and cloths drive will come at least once a month....Imagine owning a software company that you created with $100 to a company now worth over $1,000,000,000. In a true communist country (not like China, because we all know China is not a pure communist country in ANY sense of the word), you'd be working for your benefits and all the rewards will essentially go to the "state".

Now, what happens when you give the state that much power? Stalin...Mao...Fidel...Lifelong leaders that cling to power. Why? Because the power lies with the state, not with the people. It's a construct empowered by the people, then violently the people are cast away and there's nothing they can do about it because they already let the state take too much control and step all over them. Why do you think we cherish the 2nd amendment in the United States? And why do you think America has been the greatest thing to happen since sliced bread??

On another note, we've talking about the direct lives these communist dictators have taken. How about the lives that were lost due to failed social policies and famine?
edit on 6-11-2019 by JoeGee because: (no reason given)



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