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Supposedly socialism has killed 200 million people

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posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:09 PM
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I'm sick and tired of people making the lame argument communism or socialism is responsible for millions of deaths. The problem with this argument is leaders of every type of government, left or right, have killed millions of people. Government leadership turning on its people and then killing millions of people is a flaw of human nature. Lord Acton's famous quote about power and corruption comes to mind. People with power simply cannot help themselves from becoming the biggest a holes directly proportional to the amount of power they perceive they have.

I have heard how communism and socialism kills for a long time. The thing is take the soviet union after WWII. They went from nothing to a second greatest world power in like 20 years with socialism. Take China for example. When chairman Mao took power the life expectancy was like 35 years old. In 20 years life expectancy rose to by 30 years to the mid 60s.

I'm not saying socialism or communism is the end-all be-all of government. There are pluses and minuses in every form of government. Greed for example in laissez faire capitalism is extremely motivating in getting work done. And most people agree people who do not work as hard should not get the same share of privileges.

I think we really need to focus on the problems of human nature and the source of corruption of government. I don't think blaming socialism for problems in human nature is not the right approach. We need systems of government that not only expect corrupt human nature but are designed in such a way corruption is simply not possible. Take the way casinos manage money of the gaming floor. It's very rare dealers get away with stealing the house money. There are just way too many cameras and checks-and-balances in the system. So good government is possible.

I would like to see our government return to trying to solve kitchen table problems of voters the way it did in the 1970s. Socialism and government is the only way in my opinion. Corporations are bounded by laws to only serve shareholders. And I'm pretty sure the billionaires who own everything are not going to share anything meaningful anytime soon. People in general are just not skilled enough, strong enough, or smart enough to achieve a level of income necessary to grow the economy. I think government has a role in promoting the commonwealth and general welfare.

Just like guns don't kill people do. Socialism doesn't kill evil corrupt politicians do.


edit on 3-11-2019 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:16 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015




Lord Acton's famous quote about power and corruption comes to mind. People with power simply cannot help themselves from becoming the biggest a holes directly proportional to the amount of power they perceive they have.


Well you have that much correct. So communism and socialism
seem to perpetuate that power Obviously!



posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:18 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
I'm sick and tired of people making the lame argument communism or socialism is responsible for millions of deaths. The problem with this argument is leaders of every type of government, left or right, have killed millions of people. Government leadership turning on its people and then killing millions of people is a flaw of human nature. Lord Acton's famous quote about power and corruption comes to mind. People with power simply cannot help themselves from becoming the biggest a holes directly proportional to the amount of power they perceive they have.

I have heard how communism and socialism kills for a long time. The thing is take the soviet union after WWII. They went from nothing to a second greatest world power in like 20 years with socialism. Take China for example. When chairman Mao took power the life expectancy was like 35 years old. In 20 years life expectancy rose to by 30 years to the mid 60s.

I'm not saying socialism or communism is the end-all be-all of government. There are pluses and minuses in every form of government. Greed for example in laissez faire capitalism is extremely motivating in getting work done. And most people agree people who do not work as hard should not get the same share of privileges.

I think we really need to focus on the problems of human nature and the source of corruption of government. I don't think blaming socialism for problems in human nature is not the right approach. We need systems of government that not only expect corrupt human nature but are designed in such a way corruption is simply not possible. Take the way casinos manage money of the gaming floor. It's very rare dealers get away with stealing the house money. There are just way too many cameras and checks-and-balances in the system. So good government is possible.

I would like to see our government return to trying to solve kitchen table problems of voters the way it did in the 1970s. Socialism and government is the only way in my opinion. Corporations are bounded by laws to only serve shareholders. And I'm pretty sure the billionaires who own everything are not going to share anything meaningful anytime soon. People in general are just not skilled enough, strong enough, or smart enough to achieve a level of income necessary to grow the economy. I think government has a role in promoting the commonwealth and general welfare.

Just like guns don't kill people do. Socialism doesn't kill evil corrupt politicians do.



Perfect.
Communism and socialism are issues.
Capitalism is the best fit so far.
Let's find a better solution to governing.


+22 more 
posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:24 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

To you it's just "some good socialist leaders who have done some things", right?

Please post for me where America, a Democratic Republic, has killed more people than...

Chairman Mao... 40-70 million killed.
Stalin... 20 million killed.
Bonus round... 40 million others killed under all other USSR leaders.
Pol Pot... 4 million killed.
Kim II Sung...1.6 million murdered; 4 million killed in hard labor.
Tito... 1.15 million killed
Menghistu... 1 million killed
Suharto.... 1 million killed
Brezhnev and Kambanda don't really count... barely a million each

But it's going to work better this time in America, because there is finally enough money to get your socialist Utopia up and going, right?

Let me let you in on a little secret....

The number of people killed if Democratic Socialism is finally brought to America is exactly the amount of people that voted it in.



edit on 3-11-2019 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-11-2019 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)


+14 more 
posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:25 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Can you identify one living example of where socialism produced sustained prosperity?



posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:25 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
Just like guns don't kill people do. Socialism doesn't kill evil corrupt politicians do.


Socialism/Communism gives Evil Corrupt Politicians a lot more power to be evil and corrupt.



We need systems of government that not only expect corrupt human nature but are designed in such a way corruption is simply not possible. Take the way casinos manage money of the gaming floor. It's very rare dealers get away with stealing the house money. There are just way too many cameras and checks-and-balances in the system. So good government is possible.


Using a private sector solution to try and restrict public sector shenanigans... that would require the upper management to be willing to monitor itself...



posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:25 PM
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a reply to: randomtangentsrme

"best fit" is an opinion not a fact. Wealth inequality in this country is beyond obscene. I'm not sure I would qualify laissez faire capitalism any longer qualifies as working. The economy seems permanently stuck in first gear because too many if not all the major markets have matured. There's no room on the planet left for growth. People live everywhere and people have purchased everything they possible can. Everyone has tons of debt.

It seems to me the system is so badly rigged in a few people's favor it's not going to end well. Just consider the numbers:

"Wealth inequality in America has grown tremendously from 1989 to 2016, to the point where the top 10% of families ranked by household wealth (with at least $1.2 million in net worth) own 77% of the wealth “pie.” ... The average wealth of the bottom 50% however, decreased from about $21,000 to $16,000."



Money talks, everything else is meaningless political hyperbole spoken in order to preserve the status quo.


edit on 3-11-2019 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)


+19 more 
posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

OMG... are you just going to segue into wealth inequality?

I'm going to start a GoFundMe for you to get a one way ticket to a socialist paradise...

Venezuela.

Then you can finally be equal.



posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:29 PM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Just like guns don't kill people do. Socialism doesn't kill evil corrupt politicians do.


Socialism/Communism gives Evil Corrupt Politicians a lot more power to be evil and corrupt.


I disagree. Having lobbyists as puppets of the special interests controlling politicians with the heroin of campaign donations is systematically no different than having single party rule.



posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:31 PM
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originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: dfnj2015
OMG... are you just going to segue into wealth inequality?


Why would you talk about socialism if not for wealth inequality.

Back in 2008 when the government gave Merrill Lynch $19 BILLION dollars of bailout money for absolutely no reason...my thought train just got derailed. Once I said $19 billion my brain went blank.


edit on 3-11-2019 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:32 PM
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originally posted by: loam
a reply to: dfnj2015

Can you identify one living example of where socialism produced sustained prosperity?


I cited two in my OP. You just ignored them.



posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:35 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Take some slight solace in the fact that these same folks claim that the Nazis were socialists.

It’s right there in the name, after all.

These great criminals of the past were TOTALITARIAN near absolute power was put in the hands of one man.

You know, like many of the usual suspects would like to bestow on the Chosen One, the King of Israel, in the White House.



posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:35 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari

According to some estimates US bombings in the Middle East since 2001 have killed over 4,000,000 Arabs.

I'm okay if you don't accept my argument in my OP. But you seem like you just ignored by quoting numbers. Just like guns don't kill, people do. Socialism doesn't kill, bad politicians do.

If you are really going to rate political systems you have to do it a little objectively. Maybe the number of people killed by right wing Republicans is much greater than all the left wing governments combined.



posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:40 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

The closest thing in the world today to actual soclialist economies are probably in the Nordic countries.

How many millions have they killed again? (Well, after the 8th century at least)



posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:40 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

Socialism is a train wreck by example. It isn't gov. by the people
for the people. It's gov. first and then only the people that serve it.

edit on 3-11-2019 by carsforkids because: (no reason given)


+4 more 
posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:41 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: dfnj2015
OMG... are you just going to segue into wealth inequality?


Why would you talk about socialism if not for wealth inequality.

Back in 2008 when the government gave Merrill Lynch $19 BILLION dollars of bailout money for absolutely no reason...my thought train just got derailed. Once I said $19 billion my brain went blank.



Your brain being blank seems to be normal.

Socialism makes a permanent 1% that owns EVERYTHING and everyone else is equally starving under a tyrannical government.

For example, see every time it has ever been tried before in the history of mankind.

But THIS time will be different, no?

I personally think you need to take the time you spend on Youtube salivating about Marx videos and hoping the government can make your life better and just...

Take the time to make your life better.

Personal responsibility.

Own it.




posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:41 PM
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originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: dfnj2015

Socialism is a train wreck by example it isn't gov. by the people
for the people. It's gov.first and then only the people that serve it.



Says who?

That’s not socialism, that’s authoritarianism.



posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:43 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: dfnj2015

Take some slight solace in the fact that these same folks claim that the Nazis were socialists.

It’s right there in the name, after all.

These great criminals of the past were TOTALITARIAN near absolute power was put in the hands of one man.

You know, like many of the usual suspects would like to bestow on the Chosen One, the King of Israel, in the White House.


The best thing about liberal Democrats is there really is no one in charge. Everyone is treated as an equal. I was at a left wing political rally and at first the lack of organization really bothered me. But then I realized the genius of it.

The right however, loves to worship a single STRONG leader in authority. The right really loves the type government and command structure we have in the military.

Your "These great criminals of the past were TOTALITARIAN near absolute power was put in the hands of one man" statement makes me think of this movie snippet:




posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:44 PM
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originally posted by: Lumenari
a reply to: dfnj2015
Let me let you in on a little secret....

The number of people killed if Democratic Socialism is finally brought to America is exactly the amount of people that voted it in.




“[T]he useful idiots, the leftists who are idealistically believing in the beauty of the Soviet socialist or Communist or whatever system, when they get disillusioned, they become the worst enemies. That’s why my KGB instructors specifically made the point: never bother with leftists. Forget about these political prostitutes. Aim higher. [...] They serve a purpose only at the stage of destabilization of a nation. For example, your leftists in the United States: all these professors and all these beautiful civil rights defenders. They are instrumental in the process of the subversion only to destabilize a nation. When their job is completed, they are not needed any more. They know too much. Some of them, when they get disillusioned, when they see that Marxist-Leninists come to power—obviously they get offended—they think that they will come to power. That will never happen, of course. They will be lined up against the wall and shot.“
-Yuri Bezmonov, former KGB press and propaganda agent


+6 more 
posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 11:46 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

You've said some stupid # before but this one is a real doozy.




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