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Just a mess on a napkin

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posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel




But the thing that bothers me most is the idea that a child can be completely born, outside the womb, and in good health. Then that child is placed in a plastic bag and left in a room alone until "nature" takes its course.


Citation please. In every state in the Union, that is illegal.




posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: Vroomfondel

No they didnt, it wouldn't be legal even if they did... there is a law on the federal level that demands all babies born be treated the same. They cant leave a healthy baby uncared for till it dies.. what they can do, if there is severe health problems is discuss the situation with the parents and if the child has very little chance of surviving and trying to save him is just prolonging his suffering, the parents and doctor can decide nor to hook a bunch of tubes into him and go beyond reason trying to keep him alive as long as possible.
But since they passed a law saying that all infants should recieved like treatment according to their condition at birth, they cant go back now and demand different treatment to infants that survived abortion.



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 08:07 PM
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originally posted by: EnigmaChaser
Apparently dems like to elect people who refer to miscarriages as “just a mess on a napkin”:

www.foxnews.com...

If you have had a spouse or child experience miscarriage then you know that experience is no joke. If you’ve had a miscarriage, you really know it’s no joke. Not only do you have to cope with the loss of life, but then people start asking themselves if it was their fault (usually it isn’t) and deal with the constant reminders from people who knew a person is pregnant and having to repeat over and over how the baby didn’t make it. For many women this is an extremely depressing, painful and sad experience.

I hope this sorry excuse for a human we call a Democrat rep has karma boomerang around on them in a major way.

Demos are sick in the mind and have no respect for life. Probably why they rely on those of us who aren’t sick and have respect to pay our taxes so they can get a free ride. Disgusting.

/rant.


Many of these new Democrats have little to no respect for human life..

It isn't that hard to see when you have idiots in their camp coming out with such stupid things as "full term" and even "post birth", abortion or hearing some left wing morons trying to justify or encourage cannibalism, WHITE University professors advocating white genocide. The list goes on....

The crazy never stops and in many cases, seems to be getting worse.

The rhetoric geared towards mass death in one form or another, against one group or another is becoming more frequent and more public from many individuals in the leftist camp.
edit on 4-11-2019 by Ironclad1964 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 08:34 PM
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The only ones I've seen here with no respect for human life are the anti-abortionists who believe that a fertilized egg is a BABY, an embryo is a BABY, a fetus is a BABY, but hey, it's only okay to murder A BABY when they say so! Now the mother? Oh she can just go straight to hell as long as she delivers the baby first, right? She's just the "vessel" eh? What rights does she have, it's only nine months of her life and possible death, right?

That's sick $.

Then the lies come about suffocating babies after birth and ... cannibalism for Christ's sake And this crap doesn't come out of the mouths of Democrats or Independents or even sane Republicans ... but is only puked up by a small ever-shrinking core of actual bigots and zealots who just cannot accept that they aren't in charge anymore and never will be again. And oddly enough, these nutzo lies almost always dovetail with racist, sexist and anti-LGBT rhetoric as well ... imagine that.


edit on 4-11-2019 by Gryphon66 because: Spelling



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

You were much kinder than I would have been..
I think maybe i should just lol leave that post alone...



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 11:07 PM
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originally posted by: EnigmaChaser
Apparently dems like to elect people who refer to miscarriages as “just a mess on a napkin”:

www.foxnews.com...

If you have had a spouse or child experience miscarriage then you know that experience is no joke. If you’ve had a miscarriage, you really know it’s no joke. Not only do you have to cope with the loss of life, but then people start asking themselves if it was their fault (usually it isn’t) and deal with the constant reminders from people who knew a person is pregnant and having to repeat over and over how the baby didn’t make it. For many women this is an extremely depressing, painful and sad experience.

I hope this sorry excuse for a human we call a Democrat rep has karma boomerang around on them in a major way.

Demos are sick in the mind and have no respect for life. Probably why they rely on those of us who aren’t sick and have respect to pay our taxes so they can get a free ride. Disgusting.

/rant.


Not sure why people like to generalize, why not name names instead of saying "Dems"?. All Dems elected this person? So all Dems are aware of this? I'm not either but it just sounds very hateful and ignorant to just generalize people and to make assumptions.

This is equal to racism. Oh a dem did this therefore ALL DEMS DO IT! smh
edit on 4-11-2019 by jidnum because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 02:56 AM
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House Bill 1890 in PA is proposed legislation that would require that medical facilities treat the remains of EVERY miscarriage (spontaneous abortion) or abortion as human remains requring burial or cremation. The law defines that a child exists from the moment an egg is fertilized, and thus, codifies irrational beliefs into law.

The PA State Representative points out that very early pregnancies, when lost, can appear as nothing more than "a mess on a napkin" a factual but somewhat crude comment.

The Representative's point was that the law places undue expense and unreasonable requirements on medical care facilities.

As Dawnstar pointed out, there is no law in PA that restricts an individual from treating these remains as they choose. Fifty percent of all pregnancies end within the first few weeks of pregnancy through spontaneous abortion, but if this law were to pass, those miscarriages each be judged as a human child requiring burial or cremation.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 02:57 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
The only ones I've seen here with no respect for human life are the anti-abortionists who believe that a fertilized egg is a BABY, an embryo is a BABY, a fetus is a BABY, but hey, it's only okay to murder A BABY when they say so! Now the mother? Oh she can just go straight to hell as long as she delivers the baby first, right? She's just the "vessel" eh? What rights does she have, it's only nine months of her life and possible death, right?

That's sick $.

Then the lies come about suffocating babies after birth and ... cannibalism for Christ's sake And this crap doesn't come out of the mouths of Democrats or Independents or even sane Republicans ... but is only puked up by a small ever-shrinking core of actual bigots and zealots who just cannot accept that they aren't in charge anymore and never will be again. And oddly enough, these nutzo lies almost always dovetail with racist, sexist and anti-LGBT rhetoric as well ... imagine that.



Oh wow... What psychotic a rant that was..lol

The point at which a clump of cells becomes sentient is debatable, but for safeties sake, I'd say yes, all abortion should be banned except for extreme cases. And as for the mother.. Well, don't get pregnant..!! Simple as that..!! It's easily done in this day and age..!!

Now, as for your claims that after-birth abortion and cannibalism are extreme right wing fantasies.. LOLOL

First of all, it was a liberal think tank out of Sydney University that suggested after-birth abortion, which was applauded by a similar group out of NYU. Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva (Both Social Science professors and members of the Australian Communist party), are the ones who coined the phrase after-birth abortion and Minerva actually suggested that the cut off age should be around six years of age..!! Cant make this s#@t up..!! lol

As for the cannibalism, Magnus Söderlund (a Social Sciences and Marketing Professor), is the one that suggested the soylent green approach to saving the world. He's gained quite a following in certain left wing Climate change circles.

I have heard very little in the way of genocidal advocation coming from right wing sources (be it extremist, center right or anywhere in between). The lust for blood seems to be coming more so from nutjobs like those aforementioned, as well as groups like BLM screaming "Kill Whitey", ATIFA screaming "Kill NAZIS", Feminists screaming "kill all men" and people like Ophra saying "Kill all old white southern men". All left wing groups, all pretty mainstream, all advocating genocide in one form or another without any reservations about doing it publicly.

Show me one single right wing group calling for death on such a scale.

Face it, the far left are a bunch of bloodthirsty, psychotic maniacs. This isn't my opinion, there's far too much recorded and documented, visual evidence out there to deny anything different.
edit on 5-11-2019 by Ironclad1964 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 03:06 AM
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a reply to: Ironclad1964

A psychotic rant?

I wouldn't be that harsh regarding your posts, but I guess we can take your word for it.

So, you've got one person who advocates for cannibalism and one for child murder?

I'll raise you a million anti-abortion activists who think that it's acceptable to murder babies as long as they approve.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 05:54 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Considering they are already marketing genetically modified fake hamburg, I dont believe the cannibalism will be ever necessary.
I find myself wondering just how much money the few loons that say crazy crap like that are being paid to make themselves a prime candidate for the insane asylum.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 06:06 AM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Gryphon66

Considering they are already marketing genetically modified fake hamburg, I dont believe the cannibalism will be ever necessary.
I find myself wondering just how much money the few loons that say crazy crap like that are being paid to make themselves a prime candidate for the insane asylum.


Pro-choice arguments I have seen almost always include a desire to end the need for elective abortions by education, provision of prophylactics, support for mothers and children etc.

Of course, these measures are anathema to the average anti-abortionist because "socialism" and the constellation of associated political beliefs that automatically comes along.

I believe that some anti-abortionists do have moral objections to abortion as you and I do, but the overwhelming majority simply want to use the state to have control over other people's lives and enforce their irrational beliefs upon them.

As this proposed law in PA clearly exemplfies.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 06:25 AM
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I'd like to point out that Representative Ullman a few days after making the comment posted the following:



“This issue is intensely important to me and that’s why I struggled for words. My words were poorly chosen, and I apologize. I remain steadfast that every single step of a medical process, including the handling of remains, should be decided by a patient and her doctor.”


SO the offense and hurt that so many are lamenting about here was acknowledged and apologized for by Ullman a day or so later.

Of course, unsurprisingly, that isn't good enough for the activists. Why? Because outrage is politically useful.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 06:37 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Umm.. still waiting for trump to apologize for his lie about doctors ripping babies from the mothers womb moments before birth and killing it. That comment upset quite a few women who had found themselves in the position where medical facts made a late term abortion. I imagine that apology wont ever come and the lie will continue to be told..



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 06:46 AM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Gryphon66

Umm.. still waiting for trump to apologize for his lie about doctors ripping babies from the mothers womb moments before birth and killing it. That comment upset quite a few women who had found themselves in the position where medical facts made a late term abortion. I imagine that apology wont ever come and the lie will continue to be told..


The problem is that there are some of these activists who don't realize Trump is lying, and there are those who do realize the lies and then condone and spread them because it matches with their political agenda.

I would agree though that this anti-choice movement is not about what is good or right, nor is it really about anyone's feelings or pain. It's about control. Reading this crap over and over, it's really easy to see a general lack of concern for life or the pain that others experience.

Primary example: Rather than talking about ways to reduce unwanted pregnancies, there is a burning rage among many of these directed at any woman who has control or takes control of her own body. This enrages some at a deep level, which is expressed in the usual "she should have kept her legs shut" crassness.

It's not about saving "the babies" it's about the power to dictate to women because they are PROPERTY.



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 07:01 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

LOL, are you still ranting over this? The PA House Bill 1890 will pass, so you might want to find another cause. Human remains left at the facility will be disposed of by simultaneous cremation, just as is done in almost every medical facility already. Parents will also get the choice to hold funeral services if they so choose... is there a law in PA that allows this other than House Bill 1890? Hmmm...


As Dawnstar pointed out...

Wow, that's the most irrelevant point of all irrelevant points that ever had the privilege of being called irrelevant. She doesn't think I am entitled to an opinion; I think she needs to ask her man before spouting off on matters too complex for her gender.

Hmmm... yeah, it is fun to push buttons. I see why you like it so much now.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 08:10 AM
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More to the point...

Any human tissue produced by a medical facility is specified by the EPA as "pathological waste" (sometimes referred to 'red-bag' waste). Any human tissue. The only exception is to certify the tissue as pathogen-free, which is a more expensive and time consuming process. The typical method of treatment of pathological waste is by medical incineration.

You can read more specifics here at this MCF Environmental Services website.

The reason is simple: any human tissue not sterilized and kept in a sterilized facility can easily become a culture for pathogens... those nasty little bacteria and viruses that make people sick (sometimes fatally sick). Every medical facility either contracts with an incineration company or has their own medical incinerator to comply with both Federal and local legal requirements.

Anyone who has ever been in a hospital, or even most doctors' offices, will remember seeing those colored receptacles for waste. The red ones are the type of waste we are talking about, the heaviest regulated which require either sterilization and certification, or incineration. The others are there for different types of medical waste that can be treated differently (such as puncture-resistant containers for used needles).

Now, since certain posters in this thread seem incapable of comprehending definitions, let me give you a few right here: what is "incineration"?


incinerate [ in-sin-uh-reyt ]
    verb (used with object), in·cin·er·at·ed, in·cin·er·at·ing.
      to burn or reduce to ashes; cremate.

What is "cremation"?


cremate [ kree-meyt ]
    verb (used with object), cre·mat·ed, cre·mat·ing.
      to reduce (a dead body) to ashes by fire, especially as a funeral rite.

      to consume by fire; burn.

They mean the same thing! Cremation of tissue is the incineration of tissue; incineration of human tissue is cremation of that tissue.

So, anyone arguing that a requirement to either cremate or inter human remains of any kind (including blood, removed tumors, or any form of human tissue whatsoever) is improper are arguing for violation of EPA requirements and for the spread of infectious disease. We have posters in this thread openly arguing for this. You know who you are.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

First....
My husband passes away a few years ago.. my mouth has been unleashed...

Second...
Garbage is incinerated.. humans are cremated.
Theres a major difference. My husband was cremated and his ashes were given to me. I transported the ashes to his resting place...

I was given his ashes.. I was not given his ashes mixed in with the cyste that was remove from patient a, the appendix from patient b, along with a bunch of bloody sheets, leftover specimens, and whatever else the staff decided to throw into that particular trash can.
That little microscopic fertilized egg would have to be kept separate from everything else, probably requiring each to be cremated separately.
It they are incinerating the fetal remain now with the other biological hazards, I dont see how it's not gonna increase the cost to have to incinerate fetal remains individually. I kind of dont believe the same equipment would be used.
That increase in cost will be past down to the consumer, weather that would be the actual parents of the fetus or passed around more broadly to all the patients.
edit on 5-11-2019 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 12:05 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar

The law allows for simultaneous cremation:



(d) Simultaneous cremation.--If the fetal remains of an unborn child are not claimed by a parent of the unborn child, a person in charge of interment may cremate the fetal remains by simultaneous cremation.


Which of course defeats the argument that this law is somehow about restoring human dignity ... but we knew that was BS from the anti-choice activists.

Here's the rub:

The law requires cremation or interment which makes sense because if the law passed as is everything from zygote on is now a legal person. I say "makes sense" with salt the size of the salt mines that PA is well-known for, because it absolutely makes no rational sense. Makes the autocrats feelz better though.

Cremation, unsurprisingly, has been totally misrepresented by the activists here. Cremation has multiple legal requirements that simple incineration does not.
Here's a summary of Pennsylvania Law regarding Cremation.,

I draw your attention to the legal standards for cremation at § 283.11:



§ 283.11. Standards for providing burial or cremation, or both.
The funeral director shall provide services for burial or cremation, or both, in accordance with the following:

(1) Commonly accepted funeral industry practices established under the Funeral Director Law (63 P. S. § § 479.1—479.20).

(2) Requirements for professional and vocational standards for funeral directors under 49 Pa. Code Chapter 13 (relating to state board of funeral directors).

(3) Federal standards required by the Federal Trade Commission as specified in 16 CFR Part 453 (relating to funeral industry practices).

(4) A written agreement between the funeral director and the individual handling the funeral arrangements for the deceased. The agreement will include provisions for funeral directors to provide payment for other services, including payment for interment, if services for interment are requested.


So, no, another dishonest claim from the rabid activists ... this law is about one thing, making abortions harder to get legally and financially.

It's simply shameful that sorrow over death is being used as an excuse in this by some to further their agenda.

Pennsylvania Laws regarding Incineration of Medical Waste
edit on 5-11-2019 by Gryphon66 because: Formatting



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: EnigmaChaser
I AGREE 100%!!!! My daughter went through three miscarriages the third of which died at 5 months in-utero. She cried for months. The fetus had to be removed only after checking for a heartbeat 3 times. My daughter has foot prints of what was to be her first child hanging on her wall to this day. But with modern medicine IVF has given us IDENTICAL TWINS!!
What a gift from GOD!!! My first grandchildren!! For those that think abortion is ok you are only giving LUCIFER his sacrifices. Stop this senseless slaughter!!!!!

Progressives get more upset over killing an animal for food. In New York it is now illegal to declaw a cat but you can MURDER a child at the moment of birth. Sicko's!!!!!



posted on Nov, 5 2019 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

The first thing the authors of this law should do is find out exactly a fetus is!! A fertilized egg is not a fetus, that small little collection of cells that embeded itself in a fallopian tube isnt a fetus. Theres several stages between fertilized egg and fetus.
If nothing else, they should rename the danged law!! And, if you listen long enough to the lawmakers it becomes appearant that alot of them are trying to regulate something that they dont have even a high school level of understanding about.
The law also, I believe, says that the placenta, umbilical cord can, or must be included in the cremation? That must be because someone with some brains pointed out to them just how hard it would be to fish out the little tykes in very early stages of pregnancy. But, if the are including the other stuff, they are cremating garbage along with the developing baby.



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