It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Just a mess on a napkin

page: 4
17
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 08:56 PM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66


Pain might be a special case of damage I guess. Some pain is worthwhile though, so it’s not a hard and fast rule in my opinion; I take your point and as I said, using pain to the fetus as your threshold for judgement is logically consistent.

A fair enough assessment. Some pain can indeed be worthwhile. I believe my wife would count labor pains among that category.


I have never seen a pro-choice argument that states that life only begins at birth another gross exaggeration on your part.

And yet, even though partial-birth abortions are technically illegal, they are performed every day. The loophole is that if the child is killed the instant before it enters the birth canal, the remains can be ripped apart and pulled out. The end result is the same.

Oftentimes the stated argument says less about the true intents than the practice.

I am not interested in Judaic law; I need no religious foundation to support my position. I would hazard to say that the 30-day wait was due to the state of medical science at the time. Children who lived 30 days after birth were rare in certain times. It is the most vulnerable state most people are ever in.


Another claim that I’ve described aborted fetal remains as garbage. That’s a lie, and I’m bored now. Play this holier-than-thou dirty dealing game with someone else.

How else would you describe a messy napkin? We throw them away as garbage here in Alabama. Perhaps where you are they are framed and revered?

TheRedneck




posted on Nov, 3 2019 @ 08:58 PM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66


I haven’t killed any children Redneck. If you are right about the matter, I hope you nor anyone you care about never have to be a part of a decision to do so because sometimes it’s okay.

I thought my meaning was clear; I am saying not that you personally killed anyone, but that the result of your position is that children are killed.

I hope the same, and for you. It is a terrible decision to have to make, and I am sure would leave lasting mental scars.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 03:58 AM
link   
a reply to: Vroomfondel




We are are a point where democrats don't see the unborn, or even worse - the recently born, as human beings.


Plenty of Republicans and their daughters are getting abortions. Plenty of Christians get abortions too.



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 04:50 AM
link   
a reply to: TheRedneck

Do you believe that it would be healthy for women to wonder about that bloody napkin every month wondering if theres a baby in there somewhere?
It's my understanding that the bloody napking statement was referring to a miscarriage that occurs early in pregnancy. It should be obvious to anyone who's had a baby that it isnt referring to a late term abortion or miscarriage and has got a glimpse of the bloody mess that accompanies that baby at birth!
A women goes into a catholic hospital and is found to have an ectopic pregnancy. Because of their deeply held religious beliefs that will bypass the recommended first step to solve the issue, a medical abortion which simply consists of two pills. Instead they will subject the women to an invasive surgical procedure that not only removes the fetus but also part of her fallopian tube. And of course, they just greatly increased the cost of the womens healthcare. But, I guess being bodily mutilated and walking away with a bill that is 10 or more times higher, just isnt a good enough punishment for failing to be a good host. We should drive it into her human psyche that that few cells, barely visible really, is that happy little baby shown on all those anti abortion posters.. and of course, she should walk away with an even higher cost, driven up by the proper, respectful burial of the nearly microscopic, not even fetus yet, fertilized egg that is somewhere hiding within here fallopian tube.

Lol... I would be rather mean about it. I'd force them to locate that baby, separate it, and give me back my fallopian tube in a bottle.



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 05:32 AM
link   

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Vroomfondel




We are are a point where democrats don't see the unborn, or even worse - the recently born, as human beings.


Plenty of Republicans and their daughters are getting abortions. Plenty of Christians get abortions too.



Now now, mustn’t disturb the full-throated partisan rants ...

Jeez-Louise.



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 05:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: TheRedneck

Do you believe that it would be healthy for women to wonder about that bloody napkin every month wondering if theres a baby in there somewhere?
It's my understanding that the bloody napking statement was referring to a miscarriage that occurs early in pregnancy. It should be obvious to anyone who's had a baby that it isnt referring to a late term abortion or miscarriage and has got a glimpse of the bloody mess that accompanies that baby at birth!


EXACTLY Dawnstar. Cut right through the BS to the actual point. Well done.

2nd line



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 09:37 AM
link   
a reply to: dawnstar

You know, I really should thank you and Gryph. You have both made my point better for me than I ever could in a million posts... that point, of course, being that you don't give a care about anyone's feelings but your own. Not a bit! As a matter of fact, I suppose one could make an argument based on the responses in this thread that you actually enjoy offending others... I, of course, do not make such an argument, but I do see where one could be made.

We live in a society where every day we hear of social outrage, stigmatization of people for saying the wrong word... New York will fine a person $250,000.00... a quarter of a million dollars... for using the phrase "illegal immigrant." I'm in another thread right now where conservatives are claimed to lack compassion. Lord have mercy at the number of times conservatives have been called "racist," "homophobic," "sexist," etc., etc., etc... and it's more than just a word. Ask Terry Bollea, Paula Deen, Dwayne Chapman... they had their entire livelihood stripped from them over such an allegation. All of this because words offended someone.

But when that offense is toward someone who is considered "conservative," it's a different story. It's fine to bring those scarring memories of loss and despair right back up to the surface, cause people to wallow in misery, and add insult to injury by telling them their loved one was less than than human. Their offense is meaningless, because of politics. Your attitudes actually are reminiscent of the long-defunct Westboro Baptist Church when they protested funerals with signs that tried to disparage the dear departed. You have much in common with them. Were you to get over the barrier of using religious wording, you would no doubt get along great with the members of that so-called church.

"Anyone should be able to tell"... well, apparently that statement is false, because the original story had comments from numerous people who had memories dredged back up and corrupted by the insinuations uttered by a politician. So did I. And do you care? Do you concern yourself with the fact that your words offended so many people? Nope. Instead you double down, repeat the offense, rub salt in those wounds... does it make you happy to see others in misery? Does it satisfy something inside you?

My point has been consistent throughout my participation in this thread: the wording used was grossly insensitive and unbecoming of anyone who claims to have any shred of compassion for others. It is you and Gryph, along with Sookiechacha, who have consistently tried to turn this from a debate over insensitivity into a debate over abortion. That debate is useless; Roe v. Wade is destined now to become a footnote in the annals of history. Why? Because you couldn't leave well enough alone. I for one will rejoice when it is finally overturned and you scream bloody murder about the insensitivity of the evil conservatives who overturned it. I will laugh in your face as you continue to post your tales of woe and despair. Why? Because you rejoiced at mine.

So thank you for making my point for me. As for that poor woman with the ectopic pregnancy... oh, cry me a river. You want to rub salt in my wounds? Here, have a little for yourself. I'm not selfish.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 10:10 AM
link   
a reply to: TheRedneck

Umm.. I brought up the subject of ectopic pregnancies... if you happen to know of an alternative method of treatment, outside of removing the growing fertilized egg before it outgrows the fallopian tube and bursts it, please share with us!!!

And, I believe I am giving a accurate account as to how it is treated in most of the catholic hospitals in the country. I base this not only on the lawsuits that have been filed, but also articles written by clergy.

Not only are they endangering the lives of women but they are increasing the cost to the patient, the insurance company or the govt if they are on a govt program.

But, no that is not enough, they should have to pay more to have the remains properly and respectfully put to rest?

But, maybe I am wrong, maybe this law is just ensuring that women have an option to make sure their fetus has a proper, respectful burial.. ok, that would be a great law, I would be surprised if it's not on the books already. If it isnt it should be. But, for some reason I dont get that impression.

As far as offending the sensitivities of the right to lifers. They stand outside abortion clinic shouting at strangers calling the murderers. They tell little children going into school that the noisy construction site across the street from the school is killing children and chase those kids down the sidewalk as the leave that school to walk home. They call women they dont even know on these boards that they are murderers. Some of whom, for all we know, may have some deep scares themselves from going through a problem pregnancy. So, cry me a river yourself, poor little offended one!! I fail to see just how my post that you just responded to was so danged offensive!!!



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 10:35 AM
link   
a reply to: TheRedneck

That’s an amazing PC argument there Redneck.

Unsurprisingly, the “feelz” of those you agree with should be legislated and everyone else should conform.



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 10:40 AM
link   
a reply to: dawnstar

The PA law under consideration REQUIRES burials for all miscarriages and abortions.

There is no law keeping anyone from burying, cremating or any other ritual process for miscarriages and abortions.

As usual, this is authoritarian BS being presented as “just respect my feelings.”



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 10:52 AM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66

All?? Even the numerous miscarriages that happen where women are unaware they are pregnant?
I'm too lazy to go over to my computer and turn it on and hunt down the actual wording, but, are we gonna have a bunch of loons rummaging through peoples trash looking for used tampons to examine to make sure there it snt a fertilized egg??
If this law even opens up the possibility of this happening, it's a bad law.. and I read the ops linked article several times, it doesnt say much of anything about the actual wording.

Ok, never mind, it just requires the healthcare providers to do this. I guess the little fertilized egg that didnt have enough sense to travel into the uterus and has its life ended is more worthy than the egg that makes it into the uterus only to be flushed out for various reasons..

I would still want the little egg to be removed from my fallopian tube and buried independently... just because well, I'd want to be a pain!!
edit on 4-11-2019 by dawnstar because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 10:59 AM
link   
a reply to: dawnstar

Right. This law would force women who have chemical abortions at home, or experience an early miscarriage, to either bring their remains in to their doctor(?), or be forced to stay at some clinic until she aborts, so she can then have the remains cremated or buried.

$$$



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 11:03 AM
link   
a reply to: dawnstar

THAT is the EXACT context of the PA representative’s concern! YES!

Overall this is nothing more than another attempt to back-door abortion illegalization.



The bill would require medical providers to file a death certificate and arrange for the burial or cremation of the fetal remains.


Pen n Live Patriot-News
edit on 4-11-2019 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 11:11 AM
link   
a reply to: dawnstar

You just don’t care about other people Dawn.

That’s so obvious from all your posts.

#eyeroll



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 11:12 AM
link   
a reply to: Sookiechacha

But what about those women who have no idea that they were pregnant? Unless it just pertains to those abortions and miscarriages that occur under a doctors supervision, the law would be rather unenforcable unless they are willing to invade womens privacy way farther than any sane person should desire to go.



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 11:15 AM
link   
a reply to: dawnstar


Umm.. I brought up the subject of ectopic pregnancies...

Yes, you did, out of the blue. The thread is about the insensitivity shown by a Pennsylvania politician calling all miscarriages a "mess on a napkin," or to most people's interpretation, garbage.

I don't know anything about Catholic hospitals... never been to one. I know two people IRL who are Catholic (the same number of Mormons, actually) and we don't discuss specifics of religion. Actually, that may not be true... I know a lot of people who I really don't know of their religious leanings. Not something I wear on my sleeve.

If there is a problem with how Catholic hospitals are treating women with ectopic pregnancies, I suggest you avoid such hospitals should you ever find yourself in that situation (which I hope you do not; they can be dangerous), and perhaps start a thread on the injustice. You might find, based on how you word the subject, that most people agree with you, conservative, liberal, and progressive. However, if you start that thread with a declaration that all unborn children are garbage, you might get the opposite result.


But, maybe I am wrong, maybe this law is just ensuring that women have an option to make sure their fetus has a proper, respectful burial.. ok, that would be a great law, I would be surprised if it's not on the books already. If it isnt it should be. But, for some reason I dont get that impression.

I don't know. If it requires burial or cremation at any stage of development, that would be quite the silly law, wouldn't you agree? It is true that many miscarriages are unreported because the woman never knows she is pregnant. So I don't see how such a law would even be enforceable unless the woman knows ahead of time that she is with child.


As far as offending the sensitivities of the right to lifers. They stand outside abortion clinic shouting at strangers calling the murderers. They tell little children going into school that the noisy construction site across the street from the school is killing children and chase those kids down the sidewalk as the leave that school to walk home. They call women they dont even know on these boards that they are murderers.

When have I done any of those things? I have joined in condemning anyone who tries to shut down an abortion clinic by force. I have no earthly idea what the construction site thing is about.

I will call someone who wants more abortions a murderer. Abortions are bad things. Abortion is the intentional taking of a human life. Necessary in some cases, yes, but always the taking of a human life. A miscarriage is not; it is the unintentional end of a human life. Those statements are not in dispute by anyone with any basic knowledge of reproduction... all unborn children of human parents are human. No human woman has ever given birth to a giraffe. it is obviously alive or there would be no reason to kill it. If the pro-abortionists would simply accept those two things, it might be possible to have a conversation.

But as long as the unborn child is referred to as a piece of garbage... nope. Not even going to take them seriously.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 11:17 AM
link   
The only individuals referring to fetal remains as garbage are the anti-abortion activists.

That should tell us all a great deal.



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 11:18 AM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66


That’s an amazing PC argument there Redneck.

Unsurprisingly, the “feelz” of those you agree with should be legislated and everyone else should conform.

Hey, I learned from the progressives. You guys make pretty good teachers.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 11:18 AM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66

Lol.. I vote that all the prolife activists have to register for a draft and every month eact city, town, and village draws three names of the activists living among them to go door to door every week collecting the used tampons and napkins for testing...
Just to make sure that every fertilized egg gets laid to rest in a respectful manner.



posted on Nov, 4 2019 @ 11:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Sookiechacha
But what about those women who have no idea that they were pregnant? Unless it just pertains to those abortions and miscarriages that occur under a doctors supervision, the law would be rather unenforcable unless they are willing to invade womens privacy way farther than any sane person should desire to go.


Yeah, it could only apply to women who have documented pregnancies. It could have the effect of women postponing prenatal care, until well into their pregnancies.




top topics



 
17
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join