The Drake Equation Fallacy

a reply to: Barcs

One time in the most simple of terms for Mr. Einstein.

The fallacy of the drake equation is that it assumes unattainable information.
It assumes that this civilization is not the first civilization to begin filling the
stars with civilizations. Certainly if we have no data what so ever that there
are other civilizations in the cosmos it is most likely that there isn't. No
matter how much Barcs may wish it were true,

So if we are now going to speculate? I propose we speculate that this is the
first of such possible civilizations. Speculate according to the data.

Thus se fallacy oui?

What say ye please thank you?

Something else, I didn't expect this thread to make two pages.

originally posted by: Barcs

Not factoring in your unfalsifiable untestable presupposition in a PROBABILITY THEORY is not a fallacy or violation of the laws of logic.

Wait, laws of logic? So you do admit there is intelligence.

You can't do it because you guys are full of crap and keep repeating your silly assumptions.

The Drake equation is based on the presumption that there is no intelligent guiding force involved... which is a "silly assumption" given the laws of logic and physics.

a reply to: cooperton

The Drake equation is based on the presumption that there is no intelligent guiding force involved... which is a "silly assumption" given the laws of logic and physics.

A very real common sense deduction that even a truck driver could make.

originally posted by: Barcs
Yeah, this has been debunked for ages. Planes are constantly in a fight with gravity and travel level to the surface and gravity. The earth is huge, LMFAO @ saying they should have to adjust for curvature. Gravity and momentum does that for them, dumbass.

You can't just address the issue without making childish comments, can you?

Everything is magically solved by this non-existent force, called 'gravity'!

Measuring for LEVEL - no matter how, or where, it is measured - means it is LEVEL. There is no 'level to curvature'. A curved surface HAS no level, it cannot be measured as a level surface.

Instruments on airplanes measure pressure in atmosphere, to measure level flight.

You know that atmospheric pressure measures for a level flight, right?

The surface of Earth, or anything under Earth, such as a force, does not make something read level, when it is NOT level.

If they wanted to measure something NOT level, it does not make any sense to claim it is level, since it would NOT be level.

Who cannot understand that?



The measurements on planes are valid, accurate readings, based on air pressure, for level flights...


None of your side wishes to accept that measuring Earth, every single day, proves Earth is flat.

You've argued that level flight means level to Earth's curvature, and a magical force makes it do that..


My argument is based on real measurements, over Earth, which confirm it is flat.

Your argument is a force withing Earth makes instruments measure level, but that it really means 'level to Earth's curvature'.

Saying that is true, without proof of any kind, is simply a joke.


The measurements prove it is flat, a fantasy force is nothing more than pure desperation.

originally posted by: peter vlar

Why would they adjust for curvature when they’re using an altimeter To determine distance from the plane to the ground? That’s what’s important, maintaining altitude. Furthermore, the atmosphere through which the planes traverse is held in place via gravity and the planes follow the flight path that gives them the fastest route with least layovers and refueling stops. What forces are at play in your flat earth scenario and why is earth the only
Flat planet we’ve ever seen?

Earth is the only planet, the others they claim are planets, are stars that move in unique paths, have unique features, but they are not planets. If you look at them with enough magnification, it is obvious to see they are stars, not planets.

If you accept that Earth is a ball, then you obviously require a force, to explain everything else, too...

No force is needed, because Earth is flat, and stationary. Mass and density explain why we are on the surface, and why birds and insects can fly above the surface, in air. Simple as that.

Planes fly over the flat Earth, that's why planes fly level, and stay level, in flights. No need to adjust for a 'curvature', because it doesn't exist.

a reply to: turbonium1

apparently you've never looked through a telescope

I've seen them, and they are not planets, at all.

Proving Earth is flat won't change your blind faith, so nothing else ever will, obviously.

a reply to: turbonium1

proving? lol

You've seen things no one else in the world has seem... like Jupiter wobbling...

how can we believe what you've seen?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: turbonium1

proving? lol

You've seen things no one else in the world has seem... like Jupiter wobbling...

how can we believe what you've seen?

I've never seen Jupiter wobbling, but anyone can see Saturn wobbling and spinning like a top, on video clips, which are available online. They claim Saturn is a slowly rotating planet, not a spinning wobbling one, which it clearly is.

Anyway, measurements prove Earth is flat, and trying to avoid that fact is your problem, not mine.

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: turbonium1

proving? lol

You've seen things no one else in the world has seem... like Jupiter wobbling...

how can we believe what you've seen?

I've never seen Jupiter wobbling, but anyone can see Saturn wobbling and spinning like a top, on video clips, which are available online. They claim Saturn is a slowly rotating planet, not a spinning wobbling one, which it clearly is.

The apparent wobble that is visible when taking a time lapse video is just that - an apparent wobble. This is caused by the differing angles from which we on Earth are viewing Saturn as Earth travels around the sun, and as Saturn (more slowly) travels around the sun.

That is to say, it's just a matter of changing perspective.

Saturn's axis is tilted 27 degrees, so as we see different sides of Saturn from our point-of-view on Earth as the earth and Saturn move around the Sun, we see the rings in different orientations. So the apparent wobble seen in the time lapse is just due to seeing the rings from these different angles. What we can see on those time-lapse videos is not a real wobble.


That's was just a short amount of time (from 2003 to 2009) using seven real images, but here's a computer animation of what that same changing perspective as seen from Earth would look like over a 30-year span.


There is in fact a real wobble due to Saturn's axis precession, similar to the Earth's axis precession, but Saturn's precession is too long term to be noticed, even in a time lapse. Earth's precession wobble takes 26,000 years to happen, while Saturn's precssion is on a 1.8 million-year cycle.

a reply to: ATruGod

Do You have some?

Far more than enough for a court of law.

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: ATruGod

Do You have some?

Far more than enough for a court of law.

Then why aren’t you working on a legal brief to overturn Edwards v. Aguilard 1987?

originally posted by: carsforkids
The fallacy of the drake equation is that it assumes unattainable information.

Name the fallacy and law of logic that was violated. Drake equation assumes nothing about that. LOL @ "unattainable information." Do you always just make stuff up?

It assumes that this civilization is not the first civilization to begin filling the
stars with civilizations.

False.

originally posted by: cooperton
Wait, laws of logic? So you do admit there is intelligence.

You change the subject yet again. Your willful ignorance holds no bounds.

The Drake equation is based on the presumption that there is no intelligent guiding force involved... which is a "silly assumption" given the laws of logic and physics.

Again, you have failed to explain the exact fallacy and law of logic violated. You just keep repeating lies. Not factoring in a presupposition is not a fallacy, and no matter how many times you repeat that lie, it isn't going to magically become true.

Let's try again:

Name the fallacy:

Name the law of logic violated:

If you can't do it, you can't claim there is any fallacy being used.

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: cooperton

The Drake equation is based on the presumption that there is no intelligent guiding force involved... which is a "silly assumption" given the laws of logic and physics.

A very real common sense deduction that even a truck driver could make.

Yeah because truck drivers are authorities on logic and reason. LMFAO! Do the lies ever stop? Can somebody name the fallacy?

originally posted by: turbonium1
Everything is magically solved by this non-existent force, called 'gravity'!

Gravity has been proved, son.

Measuring for LEVEL - no matter how, or where, it is measured - means it is LEVEL. There is no 'level to curvature'. A curved surface HAS no level, it cannot be measured as a level surface.

Water is a fluid. It flows and is based on the center of gravity. It's never perfectly level LOL. It even bends if you fill up a glass and observe the meniscus.

The surface of Earth, or anything under Earth, such as a force, does not make something read level, when it is NOT level.

Level is relative to the center of gravity. I can't believe you are using preschool level arguments to argue flat earth in a thread about the drake equation.

None of your side wishes to accept that measuring Earth, every single day, proves Earth is flat.

Never once been tested or confirmed. Stop lying.

You've argued that level flight means level to Earth's curvature, and a magical force makes it do that..

That's a real argument?

My argument is based on real measurements, over Earth, which confirm it is flat.

Please post your measurements and math.

Saying that is true, without proof of any kind, is simply a joke.

Do you not realize how comically ironic this statement is??? Where is your proof? Post actual measurements and tests, not delusional liars on youtube. GO.

a reply to: peter vlar

Aren't you confusing the issue? The evidence for the existence of a
supreme being has nothing to do with a law that violates the separation
of church and state. If you can find a case that puts the existence of
a Creator on trial wouldn't that do more to suffice?

a reply to: Barcs

Yeah because truck drivers are authorities on logic and reason.

Well I never claimed to be an authority on anything. Not even
truck driving. I simply do my best and try not to be an ass about
anything. Unless someone is an ass from the beginning.

Name the fallacy:

The Drake equation fallacy

originally posted by: Barcs

Again, you have failed to explain the exact fallacy and law of logic violated.

It's a fallacy of presumption. The Drake equation is presuming the universe was created without an intelligent force to guide creation.

Name the law of logic

The fact that there are any Laws of logic whatsoever reinforces the idea that the universe involves intelligence.

a reply to: turbonium1

originally posted by: turbonium1
Everything is magically solved by this non-existent force, called 'gravity'!

Gravity is the descriptive label we put on the natural phenomena we see in nature, of objects of mass or energy being attracted to each other.

You have the 'Law' of gravity and then you have Einstein's General 'Theory' of Relativity.

Here are some Laboratory tests for gravity. Im sure some scientists on this forum could show some more evidence.

iopscience.iop.org...

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Reading this thread reminds me of this you tube video.