The Drake Equation Fallacy

originally posted by: Jay-morris
lol Doing what you do best! Cherry picking! I have already posted evidence that the bible says that all non believers will suffer! But you do what most religous people do, and ignore what does not fit your belief! Well done!

I didn't ignore it, I explained it to you, and YOU ignored my explanation!

First of all, when you claim that every single word within the Bible, is from a hateful, wicked God, why do you argue only about the 0.1% or so, that supports your position? You obviously keep on IGNORING the remaining 99.9% or so, simply because it CONTRADICTS your position.

You are a complete hypocrite. You know the vast majority of the Bible shows God is loving, and caring, of ALL people, yet you deliberately ignore all that, because it contradicts your 'wicked God' argument.


Even you must realize people have 'officially' revised the Bible many times in the past, correct? As I mentioned before, if the Bible was God's written word, why were people REVISING the word of God, in any way?

So now you know people have revised God's written word. Right?

Are you still going to argue the entire Bible is God's written word, knowing it is NOT?


Probably. You've ignored 99.9% of the Bible already, so the fact people have revised the Bible many times, which is essentially PLAYING GOD, won't be a problem for you to ignore, either!

a reply to: turbonium1

I didn't ignore it, I explained it to you, and YOU ignored my explanation!

The guy has done that thru the whole thread. He ignores your
answer. And repeats the same question ad nauseam has no reading
comprehension belongs in cherry tree and turns around accuses the other
person everything he's doing.

Don't feed the trolls

originally posted by: Barcs
Graviton is hypothetical. Gravity waves are not. Gravity itself is not. Are you going to break down the math you claim is sound or not??? You keep referencing math but won't demonstrate it.

I will repeat. All religion does is make unfalsifiable claims like "design" of the universe, which is then believed blindly by indoctrinated followers.

Like someone who blindly believes in unsubstantiated claims like 'gravity' exists, and 'gravity waves have been detected', because it comes from your Gods of Science, the Supreme Beings of All Knowledge?

People who work at the 'Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory' (LIGO) claimed to have detected 'gravity waves' trillions of miles away, in 'space'- the perfect place, because nobody can ever prove that you're making up countless bulls%^* claims, and being 'scientists', Gods of All Knowledge, people just blindly accept all of your claims as being 100% true.

In fact, people have been blindly accepting all those bs claims for so long, and so often, that they don't even think about their claims being anything BUT 100% true, as if it WAS proven true!!

Your Gods proclaim to have finally found 'gravity waves', when two 'black holes' merged together "about 1.3 billion years ago"!

You believe it is a 'fact' - one of countless other 'facts', which were told to you, by these all-knowing, all-seeing Gods!


The Gods see stars, and other amazing things, which are far, far beyond the stars we all see above Earth. Those are the same stars we've always seen, and Gods don't like to mention that, they like to talk about amazing NEW stars, and other stuff out there, which only they can see, and tell us about later on!!


Once they started to lie, they had to make up lie after lie, just to support the first lie. After awhile, they were lying every day, and getting paid for all their lies, because it helped confirm the lies as being true.


'Gravity' is one of those lies, which supported the first lie. And still does.


So when you say 'gravity waves are real', like it was proven true, it was from your Gods telling you about it as 'true', and if that sounds like a blind believer in some sort of very influential, very powerful RELIGION.

When you are one, among the faithful flock, it's difficult for you to understand it IS a very influential religion, because when it is hidden under the name of true science, which has real evidence, which is why people now believe science - whatever science it is - warrants our trust, in whatever they claim, to be 100% true. Proving the claims has become irrelevant to being true, just as you showed with 'gravity waves' being 'true', by claiming it was true by your Gods.


Another God of yours does not confirm the first Gods are telling the truth - if you don't know that. either.

a reply to: turbonium1

There is dissension among peers. And what James Tour said
is epic to the credibility of science in general. All of science
But they can only trust what men say. IDIOTS

So messed up because these people have no idea what they're
doing bringing up their kids as atheists. Influencing relatives
with their neg crap lies. If I ever heard the slightest whisper
saying one of my kids might end up in some place called hell?

I'd be damn sure not to just blow that off an act like a dick about
it. For me that alone is cause for a lot more consideration.

I just pray God turns them on to the light.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Jay-morris

I think the simulation hypothesis is entirely possible and maybe even probable.

This would still lend it's hand to my belief in creation. Just the "God" would be the programmer or AGI who kicked it all off.

Maybe the big bang was just someone booting up their "Life" sim on their Playstation 3045.

Did time exist before conscious beings were able to measure it?

A universe without life would not have any observations or measurements, without some creator or intelligence outwith this universe then it would be pointless. Basically until the formation of life our entire universe was a waste of time and space.

I have a different view on some of that, but I find the 'simulated' existence theory an interesting issue, since we cannot know what life, or life on Earth, really is, or is not, from our position.

However, it seems to me that our existence is the very opposite of lifeless, unthinking, unreal, computer simulations. We do what we want, if we want, when we want, within ourselves, our thoughts, our emotions....

Simulated 'people' would only do what their 'creator' wants them to do, and not do, exactly like we do with robots today. A simulated person would only be a robot, without awareness, without a life, without an existence of any kind.

Perhaps God wanted us to choose our own path(s) on Earth, and learn from the mistakes we make, along our journey. When we die, we return to our pure form, and what happens then? That is the greatest question of all - to me, at least. I know when we die, that we return to our loved ones, and that to us, it is just as real, or even MORE real, than on Earth. When my mom was about to leave Earth, she was transitioning, between here, and there, during her dreams. I won't go over the many details, but I can tell you that we exist as before, after we die on Earth, our loved ones who died are there, and we see them again, except in our own ideal form, when we were on Earth, and if we died before our ideal form would have occurred, we are in that form, as well. I know it sounds weird to some people, and it might have sounded sketchy to me, years ago, as well.

a reply to: carsforkids

It is evidence Einstein! Just because you keep repeating
that it isn't evidence doesn't make you correct.

If I leave my finger prints at the scene of a crime what do they
call that in court?

Seriously! You are not that bright! Please post evidence that this means your God is real? It's a question you have been dodging since I first posted it!

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Jay-morris
lol Doing what you do best! Cherry picking! I have already posted evidence that the bible says that all non believers will suffer! But you do what most religous people do, and ignore what does not fit your belief! Well done!

I didn't ignore it, I explained it to you, and YOU ignored my explanation!

First of all, when you claim that every single word within the Bible, is from a hateful, wicked God, why do you argue only about the 0.1% or so, that supports your position? You obviously keep on IGNORING the remaining 99.9% or so, simply because it CONTRADICTS your position.

You are a complete hypocrite. You know the vast majority of the Bible shows God is loving, and caring, of ALL people, yet you deliberately ignore all that, because it contradicts your 'wicked God' argument.


Even you must realize people have 'officially' revised the Bible many times in the past, correct? As I mentioned before, if the Bible was God's written word, why were people REVISING the word of God, in any way?

So now you know people have revised God's written word. Right?

Are you still going to argue the entire Bible is God's written word, knowing it is NOT?


Probably. You've ignored 99.9% of the Bible already, so the fact people have revised the Bible many times, which is essentially PLAYING GOD, won't be a problem for you to ignore, either!

Stop lying! I have answered all of your questions, and your answer to this question does not make any sense at all! You obviously have not read the bible if you think 0.1% or so, is all their is when when it comes to the horrible things in the bible.

And yes, you are cherry picking, but of course, that what most people do when it comes to the bible!

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: turbonium1

I didn't ignore it, I explained it to you, and YOU ignored my explanation!

The guy has done that thru the whole thread. He ignores your
answer. And repeats the same question ad nauseam has no reading
comprehension belongs in cherry tree and turns around accuses the other
person everything he's doing.

Don't feed the trolls

There you go! Lying again! Surely your goid book says lying is not good, so why do you do it constantly?

a reply to: Jay-morris

Seriously! You are not that bright! Please post evidence that this means your God is real? It's a question you have been dodging since I first posted it!

Stop trolling

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: turbonium1

There is dissension among peers. And what James Tour said
is epic to the credibility of science in general. All of science
But they can only trust what men say. IDIOTS

So messed up because these people have no idea what they're
doing bringing up their kids as atheists. Influencing relatives
with their neg crap lies. If I ever heard the slightest whisper
saying one of my kids might end up in some place called hell?

I'd be damn sure not to just blow that off an act like a dick about
it. For me that alone is cause for a lot more consideration.

I just pray God turns them on to the light.

I believe that It is entirely up to each and every one of us to FIND the light, beyond all the darkness around us all, and sadly, the darkness continues to grow deeper than ever before...

Science can be used for good, and it has been, but it can also be a tool for evil, and if people do not realize that today, more and more will see it eventually. Whether or not they DO anything about it, or admit to it, is another question. I think many who deny it today, already know it is true, but do not admit it, for whatever reason(s). Some are simply too terrified to think it is true, and fear holds them in denial, and internal conflict. Many scientists know the truth, but do not admit it, because they'd lose their jobs, and be blacklisted from any future scientific career, and be scorned and mocked as a tin-foil nut, Bible-thumping idiot, or worse. People like Tour are rare exceptions, and are very brave and courageous to speak the truth, when evil is in power, and controls the media.

One of my most vivid memories from elementary school was when my teacher showed us a map of the flat Earth, which had an ocean filled with sea monsters, and ships sailing off the 'edge' of the Earth. The teacher smirked and laughed at how stupid and ignorant people were back then, to ever believe such a thing as that! We all laughed too, at the image we saw of sea monsters and ships dropping off the Earth!

I never thought about it after that, until recently. What was the point of showing 10 year old kids a map like that? To influence our belief in the Earth being round. It could not be flat, because ships don't sail off the edge of Earth, like they once believed back then. No way it's flat. Those who even consider the idea shall be scorned, mocked as stupid and ignorant fools, for even suggesting it is possible.

So why do we laugh at people who suggest it is possible? We've been trained to laugh at people who think the Earth is flat, or may be flat, or even considers it possible in any way at all. Classrooms all have globes of Earth on teachers desks, showing that smart people, like your teachers, know that Earth is round! And so should you, because you are smart too, you are even smarter than the adults were, back then!


I'm digressing, but the point is about how science has become God today, they shall find truth in all things, and tell us those truths, and we shall all believe these are truths, or face scorn and mockery, as 'disbelievers' of science.

Any within science who doubt these truths, shall be shunned, and disgraced, as insane, or as ignorant fools.


But in saying all that, we can all find the truth, by ourselves. It is all there to see, simply by choosing the truth, and you will never again accept their lies

originally posted by: Jay-morris
Stop lying! I have answered all of your questions, and your answer to this question does not make any sense at all! You obviously have not read the bible if you think 0.1% or so, is all their is when when it comes to the horrible things in the bible.

And yes, you are cherry picking, but of course, that what most people do when it comes to the bible!

You've never answered my questions, you are the one lying here.

I asked you who you think wrote the Bible? All written by people who made it all up? Is that what you believe? Answer the question, it's not difficult, is it?

Go ahead...

originally posted by: turbonium1

originally posted by: Jay-morris
Stop lying! I have answered all of your questions, and your answer to this question does not make any sense at all! You obviously have not read the bible if you think 0.1% or so, is all their is when when it comes to the horrible things in the bible.

And yes, you are cherry picking, but of course, that what most people do when it comes to the bible!

You've never answered my questions, you are the one lying here.

I asked you who you think wrote the Bible? All written by people who made it all up? Is that what you believe? Answer the question, it's not difficult, is it?

Go ahead...

lol I have answered that question many times on this thread! Do you read!? Yes, it is obviously written by man, and not the word of God. Unless you have evidence otherwise?

a reply to: turbonium1

But in saying all that, we can all find the truth, by ourselves. It is all there to see, simply by choosing the truth, and you will never again accept their lies

The things my mom taught me started it all. She said, "Which ever
way the crowd is going"? Go the other way". Never follow the crowd
and I don't care if you digress. It' fine.

Check this ut, one of my great friends Blake was a total atheist. I'd just
plant a lil seed in his head every time I'd see him. Never pushed
the conversation but he would, out of curiosity. Any way little
by little I noticed he stopped mocking God and believers and
even myself.

All a sudden one day here he comes with his girl and we sat
in my front room for hours. Him just drilling me with question
after question. Because he knew I would speak with a fair amount
of knowledge in theology. And speak on our level so he could understand.

I knew something was go'n on all of sudden boom! He straight out
asks me about flat earth. Dude I almost rolled off the couch. It was
so funny. I said " Blake! you can't just go from atheism straight to flat
earth. That's against all the rules and this time I must for your sake
enforce them". lol

And he said, " Well I think I believe in God to". He's still not there with
God. But he is absolutely convinced the earth is flat. And he says he will
never mock believers again. He's come'n around which is really cool.

As for me I don't subscribe to flat earth but the way this world is.
And the way I was brought up. I certainly would not be surprised if it turned
out to be. We've been lied to about everything else, why would the lies
stop there.

The best evidence of God is being held in secret.

In the Book of Genesis, the Creation was described.

It spoke about the waters being divided in two - one on Earth, and one above Earth. That's why the sky is blue, like water on Earth is blue. Simple as that.

The water above Earth is held in what they describe as the Firmament.

The father of rocketry, Werner Von Braun, the man who built the Saturn V rocket which supposedly went to the moon, would certainly be an authority on whether or not the Firmament exists above Earth, wouldn't you say? I cannot think of anyone who would be in any better position to know if it existed, than Von Braun.


On his tombstone, he had only one inscription. A reference to one Biblical passage. That was it. What does the verse say. then? It speaks about God creating the Firmament above Earth, and that's it.

Since we do not have any ability to launch rockets up from Earth, straight up, to see if it hits a barrier, then Von Braun's saying the firmament exists on his tombstone is all we have right now. And I think he would know this better than us, for sure.

A few videos also show rockets that appear to hit the Firmament, which is at least some evidence, at this point. It's hard to confirm something from just a few videos, but it's a good start.


So if the Firmament DOES exist, like the father of rocketry said it did, on his tombstone, would you accept it as evidence of God, or not?

a reply to: turbonium1

A few videos also show rockets that appear to hit the Firmament, which is at least some evidence, at this point. It's hard to confirm something from just a few videos, but it's a good start.

Can you post the vids

a reply to: turbonium1

It spoke about the waters being divided in two - one on Earth, and one above Earth. That's why the sky is blue, like water on Earth is blue. Simple as that.

The water above Earth is held in what they describe as the Firmament.

Are you serious! lol That was primitive mans explanation for why the sky is blue! We know why the sky is blue! Basic science!

The father of rocketry, Werner Von Braun, the man who built the Saturn V rocket which supposedly went to the moon, would certainly be an authority on whether or not the Firmament exists above Earth, wouldn't you say? I cannot think of anyone who would be in any better position to know if it existed, than Von Braun.

And this is evidence of God how? You are talking about a man, who was responsible for the many deaths of innocent people when he was a Nazi! And you think because he built rockets, his beliefs prove thst God exists!? Seriously?

On his tombstone, he had only one inscription. A reference to one Biblical passage. That was it. What does the verse say. then? It speaks about God creating the Firmament above Earth, and that's it.

And?

Since we do not have any ability to launch rockets up from Earth, straight up, to see if it hits a barrier, then Von Braun's saying the firmament exists on his tombstone is all we have right now. And I think he would know this better than us, for sure.

A few videos also show rockets that appear to hit the Firmament, which is at least some evidence, at this point. It's hard to confirm something from just a few videos, but it's a good start.

lol and the earth is flat too loloolol

So if the Firmament DOES exist, like the father of rocketry said it did, on his tombstone, would you accept it as evidence of God, or not?

You have posted absolutly no evidence to back up your claim! Just conspiracy rubbish that has been proved wrong over and over again!

a reply to: Jay-morris

We still have hope for ya Jay. You know in your gut your belief
in nothing is a big joke. I'm just glad you still have time. But
you need to open your mind to the probability that you are
absolutely wrong.

a reply to: turbonium1

There are so many problems with this.

Just curious if you were home schooled, or went to religious school? If you have any knowledge of chemistry or physics, or do those sciences just fly in the face of God in your mind?????

If someone had real evidence for this firmament then I would certainly consider it. I’m a science. I’ll consider any and all evidence. But some quote on someone’s tombstone is not evidence. Neither are videos that could be altered or come from who knows where. Show me something from a reputable source. Show me, you know, exactly how our satellites got past this firmament. And our space rovers. I’d be really curious about how that works.

Good grief.

The fathers of medicine used to believe in the humors and all sorts of things that are not real and that no one believes anymore unless they literally live in a world deprived of logic and evidence.

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: turbonium1

But in saying all that, we can all find the truth, by ourselves. It is all there to see, simply by choosing the truth, and you will never again accept their lies

The things my mom taught me started it all. She said, "Which ever
way the crowd is going"? Go the other way". Never follow the crowd
and I don't care if you digress. It' fine.

Check this ut, one of my great friends Blake was a total atheist. I'd just
plant a lil seed in his head every time I'd see him. Never pushed
the conversation but he would, out of curiosity. Any way little
by little I noticed he stopped mocking God and believers and
even myself.

All a sudden one day here he comes with his girl and we sat
in my front room for hours. Him just drilling me with question
after question. Because he knew I would speak with a fair amount
of knowledge in theology. And speak on our level so he could understand.

I knew something was go'n on all of sudden boom! He straight out
asks me about flat earth. Dude I almost rolled off the couch. It was
so funny. I said " Blake! you can't just go from atheism straight to flat
earth. That's against all the rules and this time I must for your sake
enforce them". lol

And he said, " Well I think I believe in God to". He's still not there with
God. But he is absolutely convinced the earth is flat. And he says he will
never mock believers again. He's come'n around which is really cool.

As for me I don't subscribe to flat earth but the way this world is.
And the I was brought up. I certainly would not be surprised if turned
out to be. We've been lied to about everything else, why would the lies
stop there.

Good story, I like that an atheist can find the truth by himself, as your friend did.

I'll assume that if the Firmament was proven to exist, you would believe the Earth is flat, and not a ball flying through space, so if that's the case, then we must find a way to prove the Firmament exists, if possible.

The Bible says it exists, and the inventor of the Saturn V rocket would certainly know it, too.

Just by looking at the moon above, we can easily understand that the Firmament exists, among other ways.


One night, look at the moon in the dark of night. Nothing we don't see almost every night, of course. It's the same size as usual. The moon is supposed to be about 250,000 miles from Earth, and they claim we see it at that size, from Earth, because the moon is a lot bigger than that, but it's so far away, it appears - from Earth - much smaller in size, than it actually is.

So keep watching the moon, one night, while the sky becomes ever brighter, because it is now the break of dawn. The moon has moved over in the sky, but it's still the same moon you saw at night, and about the same size, too.

Within an hour or two, the sky is a clear blue color, and it is daytime.

The moon is still there, in the blue skies above, as well.

But what we now see, is that the moon is actually BELOW the blue skis above, blocking part of the sky from our view.


The very same moon we saw at night, which they claim is 250,000 miles away, COULD NOT block out the blue skies above Earth. But it certainly does, without any doubt.

They claim our atmosphere reaches about 300 miles above Earth, at most.

So the sky cannot be more than 300 miles high, by their own account.

Whatever the altitude of the atmosphere really is, does not matter at this point. We're going by their two claims - 300 miles, and 250,000 miles.

We know for sure the moon is below our blue skies, which proves they are liars, as if we didn't know that already.

But it also proves the moon must be below the blue waters, of the Firmament, as well.

Eventually, all of their lies will fall apart, one by one. It is inevitable.


A rocket would prove it, easily, if we had one. But Von Braun built lots of rockets, and he'd know it exists better than anyone else.

Stars also prove the Firmament, but I must get to bed.


Take care, my friend.

a reply to: ravenshadow13

Thanks for posting.