California's progressive tax is a massive failure!

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: JAGStorm

Socialism is why blue states are the richest states.

Shhh...you have that backwards ( and most likely should say WERE)
The only place socialism works , is in the home.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

Socialism is supposed to make the people equal. If socialism made the state rich but the people are suffering either you are doing it wrong or it doesn't work.

It doesn't work outside of smaller populations where the main body is primary workers and the Government has the capabilities to bring in taxes beyond hefty income tax to support. If we look at the Netherlands with their socialist style infrastructure they are running close to a trillion GDP on a population of only 17 million. Taxes are close to 40% income as an average and 25% for businesses. They also have adopted a more non-consumer society mindset and so most live a rather minimal lifestyle.

This works for them as they live in a small flat and bike to work with minimal items in their small living areas. I personally don't see America going that way anytime soon as most there feel the need to work as part of their responsibilities. We can then look at Greece that was a complete failure due to explosive Government buildup followed by low private sectors and high unemployment. There people worked to get the plush Government jobs that really had very little taxes coming in to pay for it all, and if they didn't get one of those jobs they basically became reliant on Government support that could not afford it all, France is getting there too...

a reply to: JAGStorm
Oh, you feel sorry for family and friends cos they're suffering. Well your the one that took the money and f###ed off.Just a small question for you all :-where did all the rich people get all their money? Hint it wasn't from other rich people.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: JAGStorm
Oh, you feel sorry for family and friends cos they're suffering. Well your the one that took the money and f###ed off.Just a small question for you all :-where did all the rich people get all their money? Hint it wasn't from other rich people.

My family and friends had the EXACT same choice to move if they wished to. It's not like they are in prison and can't escape.
In fact, some of them live so close to bordering states, moving would be no different than changing towns.


Also, I didn't F them, the state is F them. People vote with their shoes. If a state does not have anything to offer their citizens they will move to greener pastures. You don't blame the people moving, you blame the policies that made the people want to move in the first place.

originally posted by: crayzeed

Oh, you feel sorry for family and friends cos they're suffering. Well your the one that took the money and f###ed off.Just a small question for you all :-where did all the rich people get all their money? Hint it wasn't from other rich people.

Many got rich by taking risks and responsibilities that go with that, and a big part is hard long work...like 80 plus hours per week with a very focused mindset to make it all happen. Yes, over time they hired people to grow their business, and so created jobs out of thin air in doing so. At some point they grew to where they could say they were now rich, but most still have that 80 hours per week mentality.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

My family and friends had the EXACT same choice to move if they wished to. It's not like they are in prison and can't escape.
In fact, some of them live so close to bordering states, moving would be no different than changing towns.

When I retired from the Military people kept asking me where was I going to live, and my answer was...where my next job takes me... That was a very strange reply for some people. So I retired in San Antonio Texas and one week later moved to Washington state to start my next career.

First off, there ain’t no socialism. No blue state socialism, no Cali socialism. The closest we have is Hawaii’s state healthcare and Alaska’s oil dividends to every resident. As far as corruption? Come on. The Deep South is the reddest section of the nation, and where I grew up in Louisiana we were regularly ranked among top 3 for most corrupt. And the reddest states, like the Deep South, are all low wages, high poverty, low education, etc. Louisiana, for instance. Red state, among the highest corporate profits, and strangely horrible standard of living, 49th in education, among the highest poverty. Strange, no?

At any rate, which of our states is the wonderful example of republican right wing capitalist utopia? I’m interested to hear.

As to progressive tax. Maybe you’re right, and progressive tax shouldn’t be a thing. I’d be perfectly fine with a flat 35% tax levied only upon capital gains, rent, and other unearned income, while leaving all labor wages and non profits completely exempt from taxation.

originally posted by: pexx421
First off, there ain’t no socialism. No blue state socialism, no Cali socialism. The closest we have is Hawaii’s state healthcare and Alaska’s oil dividends to every resident. As far as corruption? Come on. The Deep South is the reddest section of the nation, and where I grew up in Louisiana we were regularly ranked among top 3 for most corrupt. And the reddest states, like the Deep South, are all low wages, high poverty, low education, etc. Louisiana, for instance. Red state, among the highest corporate profits, and strangely horrible standard of living, 49th in education, among the highest poverty. Strange, no?

At any rate, which of our states is the wonderful example of republican right wing capitalist utopia? I’m interested to hear.

As to progressive tax. Maybe you’re right, and progressive tax shouldn’t be a thing. I’d be perfectly fine with a flat 35% tax levied only upon capital gains, rent, and other unearned income, while leaving all labor wages and non profits completely exempt from taxation.

The problem is capital gains is a risk and so it is not continuous in nature. You have good years and bad years and if the good years were taxed like crazy then you would not over come the bad years....Its not like the Government would pay you back.

a reply to: Xtrozero
Me taking employment is a risk too. We all take risks when we take jobs. Know what the difference is? Capital gains are risks made with disposable income. With employment we often have good years and bad years too. The govt has never helped me on my bad years. There is a distinct and very obvious difference between profit you are creating with your own actual work and labor, and profit you accumulate from other people’s work. So again, I say our personal labor should not be taxed, deducted from, infringed upon, because that is what limits our own ability to take those risks and have those capital gains for ourselves.
And when those capital gains have bad years? That’s what labor is for. When you have a capital gains loss you lose paper. When you have an employment loss you lose home. Car. Wife.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: pexx421
First off, there ain’t no socialism. No blue state socialism, no Cali socialism. The closest we have is Hawaii’s state healthcare and Alaska’s oil dividends to every resident. As far as corruption? Come on. The Deep South is the reddest section of the nation, and where I grew up in Louisiana we were regularly ranked among top 3 for most corrupt. And the reddest states, like the Deep South, are all low wages, high poverty, low education, etc. Louisiana, for instance. Red state, among the highest corporate profits, and strangely horrible standard of living, 49th in education, among the highest poverty. Strange, no?

At any rate, which of our states is the wonderful example of republican right wing capitalist utopia? I’m interested to hear.

As to progressive tax. Maybe you’re right, and progressive tax shouldn’t be a thing. I’d be perfectly fine with a flat 35% tax levied only upon capital gains, rent, and other unearned income, while leaving all labor wages and non profits completely exempt from taxation.

The problem is capital gains is a risk and so it is not continuous in nature. You have good years and bad years and if the good years were taxed like crazy then you would not over come the bad years....Its not like the Government would pay you back.

The other issue is that you are also playing with post-tax money in most cases. So capital gains is taxing money that had already been taxed before. You pay your payroll taxes and instead of pissing away the left over money, you decide to save and invest. Then after your investment makes money, government wants to tax you again.

Combine that with the risk of loss, investors/savers would not put money back in the markets if it were taxed at 35%. What is the max write off for an investment loss now, $3k?

So I could lose my $100k stock investment... if it happens to go up, IRS is going to tax me 35%, but if I lose my ass I can only claim $3k loss? Umm... no thank you.

This country needs financial education. Half these political debates wouldn't even exist if some people had a rudimentary understanding of economics and finance.

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: Xtrozero
Me taking employment is a risk too. We all take risks when we take jobs. Know what the difference is? Capital gains are risks made with disposable income. With employment we often have good years and bad years too. The govt has never helped me on my bad years. There is a distinct and very obvious difference between profit you are creating with your own actual work and labor, and profit you accumulate from other people’s work. So again, I say our personal labor should not be taxed, deducted from, infringed upon, because that is what limits our own ability to take those risks and have those capital gains for ourselves.
And when those capital gains have bad years? That’s what labor is for. When you have a capital gains loss you lose paper. When you have an employment loss you lose home. Car. Wife.

Taking employment is not as big of a risk as starting a company....

As an employee you are trading your time for wages.

When you have a capital gains loss, you lose real money. If you start at $100k and for whatever reason the company you invested in shares are now worth $50k... you lost $50k assuming you need to liquidate/sell.

That same investmetn may be worth say $1,000,000.... but it is just a paper gain until you sell. When you sell, you will get hit with cap gains on the difference.

originally posted by: Edumakated
TN is booming.

Uhm, no. My whole family is there. That is not true. Wages are low, and work is hard to come by. The best thing about TN is low COLI.

I lived there for about a decade (north of Knoxville). I did well there but thats because I was a cancer wielding death merchant.

a reply to: Edumakated

This country needs financial education. Half these political debates wouldn't even exist if some people had a rudimentary understanding of economics and finance.

The rent example... being a landlord is not just buying a place and raking in the money. Sure there are some slumlords, but it is rare.
People don't realize the actual work behind the scenes, the risk. Sometimes I wonder how old some of the ATS users are.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: JAGStorm
I live in Southern illinois. There are people here who have been trying to separate Chicago/Cooke County from Illinois for years for this very reason. It'll never happen, but I applaud them for trying. We have to rid ourselves of the scum in the state capital before anything else gets done.

I wish we could do the same up here in Wisconsin... If it weren't for Milwaukee and Dane counties, it would be much saner place!

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Edumakated
TN is booming.

Uhm, no. My whole family is there. That is not true. Wages are low, and work is hard to come by. The best thing about TN is low COLI.

I lived there for about a decade (north of Knoxville). I did well there but thats because I was a cancer wielding death merchant.

Chattanooga? Nashville? Major cities there seem to be doing pretty well from my research...

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Over a trillion in debt.
Rolling blackouts.
Tens of thousands of homeless living in tent shelters.

Yep, checks out.

You seem to have left out that CA is the world's fifth largest economy.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: KnoxMSP

originally posted by: Edumakated
TN is booming.

Uhm, no. My whole family is there. That is not true. Wages are low, and work is hard to come by. The best thing about TN is low COLI.

I lived there for about a decade (north of Knoxville). I did well there but thats because I was a cancer wielding death merchant.

Chattanooga? Nashville? Major cities there seem to be doing pretty well from my research...

They are all in the Knoxville area. All college educated. One metal worker.

Idk man, I just talked to my brother the other day, and I asked him how it was since I figured TN would be doing pretty good. He said they are hurting too. Mostly is the low/stagnant wages and a lack of available hours to work.

I would move back if it was that much better than Florida.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Over a trillion in debt.
Rolling blackouts.
Tens of thousands of homeless living in tent shelters.

Yep, checks out.

You seem to have left out that CA is the world's fifth largest economy.

That makes it even worse. All that economic activity and liberals still can't help but run the state into the ground.

Thanks for playing...

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Over a trillion in debt.
Rolling blackouts.
Tens of thousands of homeless living in tent shelters.

Yep, checks out.

You seem to have left out that CA is the world's fifth largest economy.

That makes it even worse. All that economic activity and liberals still can't help but run the state into the ground.

Thanks for playing...

Just like I said in the beginning post, it is too simple! If the state is so amazing #1 why would people leave, #2 why would they leave to states without taxes.

originally posted by: pyguy

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: JAGStorm
I live in Southern illinois. There are people here who have been trying to separate Chicago/Cooke County from Illinois for years for this very reason. It'll never happen, but I applaud them for trying. We have to rid ourselves of the scum in the state capital before anything else gets done.

I wish we could do the same up here in Wisconsin... If it weren't for Milwaukee and Dane counties, it would be much saner place!

Just wait, they are going to do everything they can to try to hide the true Milwaukee for the DNC...