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Illegal immigration: The fix everyone ignores, likely because it would obviously work..

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posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 01:56 AM
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a reply to: Lumenari




That case was about redistricting, not apportionment.

Yes. That's what I said and what you quoted me saying.
Too bad the Admin couldn't get their story straight.

edit on 10/29/2019 by Phage because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 01:58 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Lumenari




That case was about redistricting, not apportionment.

Yes. That's what I said and what you quoted me saying.


You for some reason missed this part...


To you is counting illegal immigrants in a census OK so that certain states get more political power and Federal money?


Just wondering.



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 02:02 AM
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a reply to: Lumenari




You for some reason missed this part...

No, I didn't miss it. I avoided it.

Is it relevant to the hiring of those who lack (or forge) documentation for employment.



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 02:05 AM
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Stop welfare benefits.



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 02:05 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Lumenari




You for some reason missed this part...

No, I didn't miss it. I avoided it.

Is it relevant to the hiring of those who lack (or forge) documentation for employment.


Do these people not live in the state where they work?

Of course its relevant.

You just don't want to answer the question because it makes you look like a hypocrite.

Well, this dumb girl needs to head off to bed now.

Thanks for the reply.




posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 02:34 AM
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a reply to: Lumenari




Do these people not live in the state where they work?

I don't know. Myself, I don't cross state lines easily. But when I lived on the mainland it didn't take much effort.



You just don't want to answer the question because it makes you look like a hypocrite.
That's bull#, as well as irrelevant to the post I replied to. The census question would not have asked if someone was an illegal immigrant. It would have asked if the respondent was a citizen.
edit on 10/29/2019 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 04:17 AM
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If you crossed the border illegally or overstayed your visa you are breaking the law. The illegal aliens need to suffer consequences for their actions.
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I am a US retiree living in a foreign land and if I violate their immigration laws I will be jailed and held for a quick appearance before a local judge. If found guilty I would be fined, sent to a central holding prison for the next flight out, on my dime or anyone else who would pay for it. If I was unable to pay and no one was willing to pay my way (US Citizen Services generally WILL NOT pay to have you repatriated) then I would rot there, quite literally.
--------------------------
Employers who do not make reasonable efforts to determine that their employees are US citizens or legitimate green card holders should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

It's not about "making food affordable for Americans".
The percentage of our income spent on food is one of the lowest in the world.
ourworldindata.org...
There is a map a few pages down showing the US at 6%.
-----------------------
Another report:
"...There are only eight countries in the world that spend less than 10% of their household income on food. Four of these are in Europe: the UK is third at 8.2%, followed by Switzerland at 8.7%; Ireland spends 9.6% and Austria 9.9%.
The remaining four countries are spread across the globe. The US spends the least at 6.4%, Singapore spends the second lowest amount at 6.7%. Canada spends 9.1% on food, while Australia spends 9.8%."
www.weforum.org...

All to say: the notion that Americans will be starving if we don't have illegals to pick our lettuce or work in the packing plants is a lie. We can pay a little more for legal workers and still live well.
Illegal workers are all about bigger profits for the companies who choose to cheat.



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 06:02 AM
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a reply to: Lumenari
I’ll bite..


Kinda... Hell even just for assigning more funding for the local ice chapter or local PD would be a reason to have them on the census..

Then you have funding for emergency room type stuff, and even though the parents are illegal their kids might not be.. so they are worth tracking too..


Having more data on a subject is rarely a bad thing.



I guess the reverse to that question would be, “what do you think should be done with illegals who do need aid?”

So should they be accepted at the hospital and should police and fire respond to their calls?

Concerning the over all money side of things, a dollar of planning ahead usually saves you 10$ later..


For example...

If 10-15 k a year in welfare stops us from paying 40k a year to jail them... that is a 25k win for welfare.



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 06:05 AM
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a reply to: TomDonahugh

I think doing ridiculously expensive and likely counterproductive things for principle is silly..

The zero tolerance policy of prosecuting everyone caught costs us crazy more than just releasing them back into Mexico uncharged..

Plus they stay here longer..



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 07:30 AM
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a reply to: JustJohnny

NO ONE with the power to do something about it suggest going after employers, or at least not enough of them do.

Plenty of people on the ground understand it needs to happen because being able to pay people under the table undercuts the wages that creates "jobs Americans won't do". It's a misnomer really. They're actually jobs Americans can't afford to do because illegals can simply be cheaply enough absent all the attending costs that the wages created are not enough to make the traditional employer/employee contract worth it for most Americans.



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 07:40 AM
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I was able to question an ICE agent when I was empaneled on a federal grand jury in Philadelphia. I had a fake ID (PA drivers license) in my hand that was used by an illegal alien in a case that we were hearing. It was so poorly made that I could not understand how anyone could possibly accept it as being real, unless they were blind.
I asked the agent why weren't more employers charged for hiring illegals when such ID was presented?
he said that they have brought charges before, but couldn't get convictions because the employers simply say that they are not qualified to say whether an ID that is presented to them is real or not.
Apparently that defense works, making it difficult to bring charges against employers for hiring illegals.

If you accept a fake ID as being valid when you do not know that it is fake, who is committing the crime? You, or the person presenting it as real?
edit on b000000312019-10-29T07:41:30-05:0007America/ChicagoTue, 29 Oct 2019 07:41:30 -0500700000019 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 07:44 AM
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Fines will never be a solution. Costs just get passed to the consumer. Anything less than jail time for harboring a criminal will have no positive effect. I mean real jail time, not slap on the wrist jail time.



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 07:49 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

Of course fines will work...


A business’s job is to make a profit.. they employ illegals because they are cheaper..


The instant they are no longer cheaper, it all stops..


Sure it won’t stop those selling drugs/exc but they are not 95% of those here ilegally..


This is very easy math.. present fines are still cheaper than employing Americans or they wouldn’t do it.



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 07:51 AM
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a reply to: butcherguy

Put the responsibility on the business and they will instantly figure it out... all they gotta do is run the ID....

Gas stations are still responsible for selling to minors with a fake.
edit on 29-10-2019 by JustJohnny because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 07:59 AM
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a reply to: JustJohnny

No that's a bad idea. If they're seeking asylum then keep them in a holding facility until the ones getting in legally have finished their work to get in, then go to the asylum seekers. Any child born at the facility will be a child of the country their mother is from. All the rest get sent back if they're illegal. If people are hiring them and they're a good hand then that employer can hold their position until they get here legally. In the meantime, parents can grow a backbone and make their 14+ year old kids get out and earn some extra money instead of playing online war games.



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 08:02 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Stupidsecrets




Totally screwed up situation and does not happen in any other country on the planet.


I didn't know the US wanted to be like any other country on the planet.


We don't want to be an illegal mixture of them all, either.



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 08:49 AM
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The easiest way to fix this problem is to stop all immigration for several months, work through the back log, fire a ton of useless people at the USCIS, train everyone who remains to actually know the freaking laws, forms and other minutiae.

And anyone whining about how several months is a long time blah blah blah clearly has never gone through the US immigration process where everything is a mess and takes 3 times longer than it should.

The US immigration system is a flaming neon flag for why the government sucks at running anything.

There is already E Verify which was supposed to stop the hiring of illegal immigrants or immigrants who do not have a work permit. It has never worked because the government can't run crap. Walmart can track every freaking widget from distribution center to truck to store to register and then reorder it automatically but the US government can't keep track of immigrant numbers and stolen SSN and Tax numbers. It's a joke!

Nevermind that people want the government to take care of everything for them....

Employers are supposed to be fined but of course they claim the E Verify wasn't working properly or that the Illegal immigrant had stolen identity or that they filed the I-9 and so aren't to blame.

Admitting the system is broken, rebuilding it, and then actually following the laws already on the books will go a long way to fixing most of the illegal immigrant problem.



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: JustJohnny

A local company's repeat-offender operators were arrested by the feds recently. It sounds like one of the family members rolled on them after trying to get them to stop the practice (or he was pinched and turned to save himself.)

Either way, it required an investigation, building a case, and ultimately making arrests that will have to go to trial.

I agree with disincentivizing the encouraging of illegal immigration via hiring practices, but it still won't be easy, and burner corporations / shell companies will still be used to get away with what they can.

ETA: Daily Herald - Illegal hiring company busted
edit on 10/29/2019 by dogstar23 because: Added link



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Exactly..

It is jobs they are unwilling to pay American wages for..



posted on Oct, 29 2019 @ 09:29 AM
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originally posted by: Stupidsecrets

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: JustJohnny

Just make it very easy for illegals to have a path to citizenship like get a four year degree or pay some amount of taxes for 4 years. Having a booming economy helps everyone.





No. It should not be easy. It's easy now. Just show up. Can't speak English they get locked up for a year and deported. Do it again 2 years. Again 5 years. That is what needs to happen. We have large communities that can't speak English and they are voting legally in local elections. Totally screwed up situation and does not happen in any other country on the planet.


It is not easy to get citizenship. If you believe that, you are either a moron or intentionally ignorant.



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