Almost all your decisions are made by your unconscious mind.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I know for a fact however, wisdom grows, and decision making ability grows. They grow at different speeds in different people, but generaly the contemplative do better than reactionaries.

Wisdom equals experience, decision making skills equal confidence, imo, and age brings about both......intelligence is measured, currently, by the amount of different ways one can problem solve. The thought(in a nutshell) goes that an in depth analysis of ones experiences will reveal perspectives that weren't utilized the first time around. Done with an objective mind, new ways of coping and understanding could arise........which could possibly effect an IQ test.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne but that's the point I'm trying to make. Evolution and morality are anathema to each other.

I agree with the point despite your mode of communication...morality is an aspect of maintaining the status quo, which doesn't encourage different ways of doing things, good or bad.

I would say that survival may sometimes require infanticide, not evolution.

Originally posted by WyrdeOneImplicity you could follow the train all around the brain, daisy chain, is that what you meant?

Implicit.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
There has been some recent interesting information, in the journals, linking mis-folded proteins very similar to the ones that cause mad cow, being responsible for memory creation. Where that new research will take us who knows...

Responsible for memory creation....a misfolding protein??? Or has the capacity for memory creation? Wouldn't the former imply the existence of a misfolding protein in youth?? I'm kind of confused by this..........

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
They have been recorded to, usually to threaten or bully a weaker consciousness. They usually don't mix, probably to retain their integrity for the purposes of the experiment. If the unconscious is trying different models, it needs to know how they react to the world indipendently so if it finds the 'right' one it can discard the others without allowing their flaws to leak over into the chosen identity.

But I would think that a biological connection would mean that the possibility for the different "sets" to become consciously aware of each other would exist..........

Originally posted by WrydeOne
Suffice to say, I disagree that is an advocation of tunnel vision.

My interpretation is definetely a product of my experience.......

Originally posted by WyrdeOnebut remember, not all the engineers are out for their own gain. Some of them are actually looking out for humanities best interests, and have been since the beginning of inteligence...

Thank you for the reminder.



edit for quote bracket

[edit on 12-3-2005 by MemoryShock]

I ran into this site yesterday, thought maybe it would be interesting while discussing this topic.

www.geocities.com...

by the way, wouldn't it take the conscious mind, to make a conscious decision? the unconscious mind and influence it, but it would be the conscious mind that knowingly takes the action....

Originally posted by dawnstar
by the way, wouldn't it take the conscious mind, to make a conscious decision? the unconscious mind and influence it, but it would be the conscious mind that knowingly takes the action....

Whether or not the conscious mind knowingly takes the action doesn't necassarily mean the conscious mind was the decision maker. To consciously make a decision is to weigh more than one option and consider potentialities, etc, to varying degrees. Many actions in our world are carried out as a result of reaction or instilled moral/ethic codes. How often do you see people do something because someone else did it? I myself have made decisions like that. I consciously remember the experience but didn't necassarily make the decision. Does that make sense?

The conscious mind may have a preprogrammed "rationale" to explain away an action. This leaves a vast amount of space for the unconscious mind to operate its influence........

maybe the conscious mind made the conscious decision to turn on the automatic pilot in some areas of our lives.......thus deferring control to the unconscious mind?

The REG (Random Number Generator) may bring new light to the subject of the unconscious mind.

www.rednova.com...

From the site...

"We're very early on in the process of trying to figure out what's going on here. At the moment we're stabbing in the dark.' Dr Nelson's investigations, called the Global Consciousness Project, were originally hosted by Princeton University and are centered on one of the most extraordinary experiments of all time. Its aim is to detect whether all of humanity shares a single subconscious mind that we can all tap into without realizing."

Originally posted by dawnstar
maybe the conscious mind made the conscious decision to turn on the automatic pilot in some areas of our lives.......thus deferring control to the unconscious mind?

Hmmm. IMO - we seldom use our brains - most often our brains use us. ...So decisions are made subconsciously, and are conveyed to the conscious mind only when necessary for action - and then the conscious mind rationalizes the decision (usually quite simplistically) to enable action.

...I used to play with a mental state that I thought of as a kind of Ninja consciousness. ...I could 'flip a switch' to turn on my creative and logical thinking capacities plus open the subconscious, all simultaneously. ...and could literally feel connections zipping back and forth ping zip ping - it also tended to be kind of a 'whole body' experience. ...Used it at work for serious problem solving, like production management which can sometimes get hairy, or for physical stuff like sailing or leaping from rock to rock across rushing rivers. And driving LA freeways of course. Great fun.

...Sometimes, doing this was exhausting, and not necessarily related to sustaining the state for long periods of time. Other times it was not. I assumed that when it sucked me out I was probably doing it wrong somehow.

...Anybody know? Have similar experience?


.

B2TheE,

I posted about the REG's here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sorry to chip in without reading everything, I hope I'm not repeating old info,

I know of experiments that were done where the frontal lobe was disconnected, severed, or something like that, the decision making part of the brain was unusable, and then they gave them a series of choices where there was an obvious worse answer, something like 'do this and nothing happens' or 'do this and get slapped in the face' they could deliver an automated choice,

however, when they had the choice between 2 equal but different things, niether of which were better or worse than the other, the true 'free will' was needed and they were literally unable to come to a decision, it is at this point any feelings of empathy toward the tested you may be experiencing, are well and truly valid.

it is a valid form of torture.
like a deaf blind mute being assaulted & unable to express anything.

but the point is, free will comes in when we get the easy choices, like do you want that gift wrapped in the red with stripes or the red with dots?

and everyone of us knows how difficult those desicions can be, which begs the question, if we mostly automatically waltz through the majority of choices, are we firstly, a lot worse at free-will then we assume, and is this due to a lack of practice? my guess it yes. yes it is.

-B.M

Perhaps the Brain is Not the "Source".

One function of the brain is a "Decoder/Encoder", between "Awareness" or "Entity" (Not of the brain or in the Brain) and the Experience i.e. involving the "Species" and its interactive "Environment" Programs...

What produces this experience (not the experience of the individual Species and the Environment or Universe), is nothing at all like the end result, but is of a non-dimensional "Source", Outside the experience.

The Species has both Automatic Responses, as well as being influenced by decision making of the True Mind, external of the Species, decoded by the brain.

[edit on 7-8-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

Never saw this thread before....

This is a cut&paste from an other post I made last week....

"Consciousness is a much smaller part of our mental life than we are conscious of, because we cannot be conscious of what we are not conscious of. How simple is that to say; how difficult to appreciate! It's like asking a flashlight in a dark room to search around for something that does not have any light shinning upon it. The flashlight, since there is light in whatever direction it turns, would have to conclude that there is light everywhere. And so consciousness can seem to prevade all mentality when actually it is not."

(Can't remember who i am quoting here. )

We are overestimating the conscious process and are ignoring the subconscious process. Did you know the conscious mind has a process capacity of about 60 bits per second while the unconscious mind clocks in at about 11,2 million bits per second.

It's like comparing an abacus with deep blue....

The conscious mind is really limited!!

Peace

[edit on 12-8-2010 by operation mindcrime]

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
We are overestimating the conscious process and are ignoring the subconscious process. Did you know the conscious mind has a process capacity of about 60 bits per second while the unconscious mind clocks in at about 11,2 million bits per second.

[edit on 12-8-2010 by operation mindcrime]

Do you have a source for that? Even assuming they could come up with a 'bit rate' for the conscious/unconscious mind the figures are extremely questionable.

reply to post by john_bmth


That would be the work of :

-G.A. Miller "The magical number seven plus or minus two: Some limits in our capacity to process information"

-T. Norretranders "The user illusion"

-A. Dijksterhuizen "the power of the subliminal: subliminal perception and possible application"

-R.R. Hassin "The new unconscious"

Basically it boils down to this:

If we think of a computer, we think binary. The smallest piece of information is either "1" or "0", a bit. Let us now divide the alphabet in two sections. the first half of the letters will receive the value "0", the second half will receive the value "1". Now if we divide the first half yet again and give all the letters in the first half again the value "0".

If you would continue this then you will find that every letter in the alphabet can be displayed with the help of 5 bits. The letter "A" is for instance "00000" and the letter b is "00001", z would become "11111".

To make a 5 letter word we would have to use 25 bits. We know some letter combination are not possible so we could do with less then 25 bits (but that more a game for our unconscious to play )

The sources I named above apparently did some research on this topic and found that we are able to comprehend 45 bits per second when we read, 30 bits per second when we read out loud and 4 bits per second when we count....

Give it a try. Try counting the letters in the word "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious"..... 4 per second. That's all you are going to get......

It is therefor estimated that the maximum processing capacity of our conscious is 60 bits per second.

As for the maximum processing capacity of the unconscious, they looked at the amount of receptor cells in our senses and the amount of braincells that process this sensory information. They came to a staggering 11,2 million bits per second.

I am afraid you will have to go through the books I named to get the raw data and probably a better explanation....

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


But you're taking pattern recognition speed and somehow extrapolating that to a bit-rate based on a binary representation of each character being read. That's a tremendous leap of faith and doesn't make a great deal of sense. Even if the conscious mind's processing abilities could be assigned a bit-rate (that's assuming the mind processes discrete data like a digital system), the approach of using a binary representation of the characters read per second as the bit-rate ignores the visual processing, pattern recognition, memory retrieval and other tasks (and thus the volume of data processed) needed to come to the conclusion that a given shape on a piece of paper/computer screen is in fact a shape that we recognise as the letter 'x' of the English alphabet.

Interesting old thread. A bit above my head but it reminds me of a mystery I recently solved for myself.

A long, long time ago I bought a David Bowie single "Boys Keep Swinging". On the inside edge of the record, just outside the label, someone had scratched by hand "your bicameral mind" on one side, and "mind your bicameral" on the other side. I always wondered what that was about. I remembered it wrongly in fact, and for years I thought it said "my bicameral mind."

Anyway, this was about 30 years ago and only recently I looked up those words because it's always bugged me and I found that they're connected to a 1975 book called The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes.

He coined the word bicameralism and hypothesied that the human brain (thousands of years ago) once operated in a split system where one part would speak (like a god) and the other would listen and obey. Similar to the modern day schizophrenic who he thinks are leftovers of the past, given the fact that schizophrenics are more often that not ordered about by their "voices".

Other examples of bicameralism, according to Jaynes, include hypnosis, possession, religion, and folk like me who suffer from indecisiveness.

john_bmth,

I know the science might seem a bit questionable but it is merely an indication of the power of our unconscious mind. The rate might be a little bit lower or higher but the difference between the two is a factor 200.000!!!

(also I am absolutly not the right person to translate the books I read. Please, if you can, read those books. They are great!!)

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Well in either case, thanks for the heads up. I looked into your sources as I was typing my post so I might have a hunt on Amazon to see if I can pick them up cheap

It just occurred to me that the burden of proof is on my shoulders so I will look it up in my copies but that will take some time 'cause I'm not home right now...

Will get back to you on that.

Peace

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Evolution and morality are anathema to each other.

Oh no, they're not.

The basis of human morality is the behavioural dynamics of the higher social animals. Altruism, cooperation, reciprocity, group loyalty and an understanding of 'fairness' are all commonly found among such animals.

So basically, and if im wrong dont hate, everything we choose is decided by the unconscious mind. If that is so, what does the conscious mind do then? This whole thing seems simple enough, but there are some things that i am not understanding.

reply to post by TheBandit795

"Does this mean that they are seeing words? Visualizing semantic concepts? Does this in some way conceptualize consciousness?" As Zaltman points out, language is only the narrowest determination of our thoughts.

i think the OP's source is credible, learned, and choosing their words carefully when referencing the correlations between languages and our subconscious mind(s) at work.

is it possible that there are more attributes to what is "literate" than just the left to right?

yes, yes there is more to language than just left to right, and we are actively encoding and encrypting languages in ways we are not consciously aware of, in my opinion. perhaps the truth of this social engineering project resides somewhere here on earth? maybe not?

i've offered a few hundred posts that delve into this phenomenon within us, with a few hundred examples of truisms encoded and encrypted into the words.

i don't think the future needs it, i think it is a remnant of the past.

but, yet, words seem to affect us at the "conscious" level of the mind and our actions, our behaviors, intentions, and percieved priorities.

but, feel free to think me a dissinformation misinformation giver, if it helps.

pay more law makers to make more laws when no child born today can live long enough to learn the number of the current mandatory expectations placed upon them by society.

and while you pay your captors to close in the walls around your accepted behavior ...

stay in denial and no, ignore everything

"no ignore everything" = "na, shun all"

na, shun all
national

your game, your rules, our consequences.

some of my thoughts,
et