Imagine your are an American

That he has 0 support from anyone on this website.

I suspect he will be disrupting our posts for a while, he obviously has nothing better to do. And with all those hot Spanish women too, poor er.......guy.

Shining Wizard,
Its good to here this from a working american rather than CNN.
I agree, thier are hardships in America.
Its not easy living in the "Land of the Brave And Free"(Thats an american saying is it not?)
In reality it is not the land of the Brave and Free, and that comes out of your original comments.
Even for a Highly Educated man like yourself, you feel afraid.
Im still young, and after reading that i hope the world can rejoice and come to a better self when i have children.
Deep

I am only 26 so I am by no means old enough to truly understand the fear of needing to feed one's family. But people I employ always remind me of how hard it is.

I run a company, formed with my own money that I made as a program manager for one of my competitors. I am doing well but I do worry, I am not scared, I am just not satisfied with the way it is and I WANT TO CHANGE IT.

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
SW,

Can't i just neutrally criticise a piece of artwork rubbed up my nose ? The way you deal with dissent tells a long tale about your social aptitudes. No wonder you're a dire poet. And you should really stop abusing babelfish to impress your cyberchums.

Neutrally? That is the correct word you choose to say what was otherwise self-evident?!?

"rubbed up my nose"? Again...you choose to read this topic then further choose to merit it with neutral criticisim? I'm failing to see your comment as a nuetral postion. More so, I'm failing to see how, in any way, this topic had your 'name' on it for 'it' to be "rubbed up" your "nose."

Your comment was unwarrented, truly unnecessary, and also a true indication of one's own mental capabilities! Personally, a foot up your arse wouldn't be enough to indicate the desdain you, yourself, spouted forth nor my own feelings of your otherwise useless comment(s)!

You were better off simply reading the topic contents and carrying your arse on.....but you choose otherwise.....leaves alot to be 'desired' on your part...needless to say!

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Seekerof]

Well written man.

That is America in a nutshell. I live it daily. Sux that I'm not alone on this one though. In a way, I wish I was the only one.

Hope things can turn around soon.

Seekerof,

for me SW's "poetry" is crap. I am in every right to articulate my discontent with the literary quality or the content of a post. My rightful criticism is greeted with insults of the worst order. That tells a longer tale about the author than his melodramatic crap. I wonder that Shining Wizard is allowed to post on such a usually polite forum.

The voice of obfuscation strikes again.

Buddy if you can't tell, no one likes YOU, I would suggest not opening yourself up to comments.


_the wiz

"That is America in a nutshell. I live it daily. Sux that I'm not alone on this one though. In a way, I wish I was the only one.

Hope things can turn around soon. "





Well, that Powerball is really up there. Grab a ticket and you might turn it around like a mutha!!

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by astrocreep]

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
melodramatic intellectual incest "oh we poor americans"

cant you keep that for yourself ?

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Mokuhadzushi]

This is "rightful criticism"?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!
Your clarifying of your "rightful" position on this remains to be ascertained Mokuhadzushi.....and editting it further mystifies your position!

You might want to rethink just 'what' exactly is defined as "rightful criticism"!
You might want to probably redefine it as "rightfully unwarrented"......."rightfully unmeaningful to the topic".....you might want to just simply redefine your postion as a whole!!!

Your right to an opinion is obvious to us all but your right to that said opinion could have come with whats called "tastefulness", "tactfulness", using "better judgement"..........or perhaps.......a not posting at all!!
Again.....you choose otherwise, thus exposing yourself and your underlying true nature and 'gaff for intelligence'.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
I wonder that Shining Wizard is allowed to post on such a usually polite forum.

What, you want only your message to get out and all others stiffled!? I can't imagine that coming from you Moku! I have to tell you that I'm shocked...I really am. Maybe we can get the moderators to run everything by you so that you can be assured its all anti-American. Am I on your level of thought and reason now? Pretty close? Getting there?

I didn't think it was bad at all. I fortunatly can't relate to those living conditions since my parents were blessed enough to live where we live and my dad is able to pay the bills.
Oh sure there's rich people and people who are able to make the payments alright, but there's a heck of a lot of people around who are living for tomorrow. It's really sad too. Someone who visited us who lives in the city said you can't even go outside at night because you are likely to get killed. Shootings and robberies are quite common. Not to mention our economy is crap. And the gas prices going up to two bucks doesn't help either.
A lot of people are being brought way down because of credit cards.
I do say we are spoiled here in plenty of ways, but America is like much of Europe. America just gets targeted politic wise. And yes, the media doesn't shape our society as anything magnificent.
Still, though I'm just a youth, there's no reason to act like some whiny 3rd graders just because you can't agree on something. Some adults
I see enough little kid behavior from my dad so it is quite a pet peeve of mine, but at least people here don't feel the need to insert a profane four letter word (or 3) every other word.
Sorry, I'm not trying to diss Shining Wizard here.
I'm just thankful I wasn't dished any anti American crap when I was in Scandanavia the last month.

i normally don't stoop to that level, I would not call it childish per say, but probably not the right way to respond. But the guy just grinds on me man, he makes no sense, starts out a real jerk and then tries to pull heart strings because he realizes that no one here wants to hear from him. I am making an effort not to resort to any more flames.


Thanks for reading, I too never really had to want, but I feel for people who do and I help them, you should to, it is very good for the soul. You never know when a favor will be returned.

My criticism, qualifying SW's text as "melodramatic intellectual incest" totally hits the spot, in my opinion. I am entitled to that opinion, especially since the post is undeniably melodramatic and is a more than complacent account of his romanticized view of himself. For me this is the worst imaginable kind of writing, by principle. My position on art, which is as good as anyone else's is greeted purely on the purpose of self-elevation by the author with horrid insults that are totally off the limits of any scientific, literary or journalistic discussion in a public place like this one.

Originally posted by astrocreep
Well, that Powerball is really up there. Grab a ticket and you might turn it around like a mutha!!

Too bad it's a pipe dream. Seems only rich people and old people, or rich old people win that stuff.

One day I shall get my break.

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
My criticism, qualifying SW's text as "melodramatic intellectual incest" totally hits the spot, in my opinion. I am entitled to that opinion, especially since the post is undeniably melodramatic and is a more than complacent account of his romanticized view of himself. For me this is the worst imaginable kind of writing, by principle. My position on art, which is as good as anyone else's is greeted purely on the purpose of self-elevation by the author with horrid insults that are totally off the limits of any scientific, literary or journalistic discussion in a public place like this one.

Oh like art and patriotisim is totally incompatable.

Ok, here's one to make you feel better,


Imagine you're a Spaniard Muslim sympathizer named Mokuhadzushi.

Imagine having 0 national pride.

imagine getting rolled over by nazi's by staying neutral.

imagine having nothing to do but admire the fact that in the ranking of countries, you're about... umm... 32.

Imagine getting insanely jealous of the fact that Americans have bigger, umm... bombs.

then imagine that you wake up every day and bitch about that fact on a website, so you can feel complete.

Originally posted by Shining Wizard

For the benefit of those who aren't:


You wake up everyday hoping you can cover your bills, keep up your credit rating, and feed your children.

You pray to god that your company isn't downsizing this week, as they have everyweek for the last 2 years.

You wonder how long we can compete with the Chinese in labor margins and wonder how many people jobs you cost when you send your machined parts overseas.

You bitch about the rising price of insurance and health care

You wonder if the group of kids down the road is armed and if they are intending on pulling a Columbine, and if your child is on the list.

You cry when your loved one is ill, and wonder why no one was aware of asbestos in your parents days

You yell in anger when you see American people whom you never met die due to terrorists

You fondly remember when the word terrorist was firmly planted in the World section of the newspaper and it all seemed so far away.

You wonder if the guy running the dairy mart really means it when he says have a nice day, he just doesn't seem the same anymore.

You wonder if getting your degree matters anymore, hell what jobs are there anyways.

You cringe when you have to send the 16-17 year old kids elsewhere when they look for summer work.

You wonder if the vegetables you are eating are slowly killing you.

You wonder who is going to run against Bush this year, and if it's even worth it.

You wonder why everyone bashes you overseas, don't they know we have it just as bad as you right now.

You wish you could get a new car, but just can't afford it right now.

You don't feel invincible anymore, you wonder if someone will ever nuke us

You hope that your son or daughter, who is in the military, is going to come home safe, after all you haven't heard from him/her in 2 months.


And last but not least, despite of all this ......

YOU ARE STILL DAMN PROUD TO BE AMERICAN,


We will fight through this, we always do.

Just for some of you that don't understand something here...........
Shining Wizard posted this and it speaks volumes! Do many of you really realize just how many American's feel this way?!? I live it and breath it everday.

Change it! Many say.......

Lets get something clear, change takes time. Getting rid of Bush is not going to solve this. If you think so, your deluded and your 'vision' is blurred. These problems/feelings are problems that surface and then disappear, only to resurface again....its the cycle.


I will furhter admits to being thus: I am a born and raised, true blue American and I can relate to this wholeheartedly. Regardless of this, and what president that 'we' currently have and what the rest of the world currently views the US as........I am a proud american.

Many of us American are dished 'world wide criticism' by those outside of America. Is it justly warrented? We have elected officials, etc., but are "we" to be also held accountable for the views one has towards our current President or goverments 'foreign policies'? We don't get to vote on that stuff....we have faith that our congressional leaders, senators, congressmen, etc. will "do the right thing".....daily life goes on for the average American. Do not "stereotype" a patriotic american as you would current events.....the average patriotic american is, after all, a american and a person.

regards
seekerof


[Edited on 9-7-2003 by Seekerof]

Criticism of the Bush administration from outside America is warranted and necessary.

There is not enough criticism of it happening within America.

It is the worst administration in the history of a fine nation, and it needs to be removed forthwith, for the good of the world.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Criticism of the Bush administration from outside America is warranted and necessary.

There is not enough criticism of it happening within America.

It is the worst administration in the history of a fine nation, and it needs to be removed forthwith, for the good of the world.

Indeed MA, I whole heartedly agree. I guess what I was meaning to try to say, is it fair to judge an American based on the current government?

Criticism in America is a ongoing process. It might not appear to be a united front but the criticism is there, none-the-less.

Again, getting rid of this administartion will not be the 'cure-all' for what Shining Wizard' posted of. Time will tell but your reply was understood and appreciated.

regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Fury
Oh like art and patriotisim is totally incompatable.

I think it IS incompatible. The Nation is something purely imaginary, it's only a little part of a human being's identity. Everything else is a psychotic delusion. And the "nation" being the subject of art is, in my opinion, an horrible perversion.

Ok, here's one to make you feel better,

Imagine you're a Spaniard Muslim sympathizer named Mokuhadzushi.

Imagine having 0 national pride.

imagine getting rolled over by nazi's by staying neutral.

imagine having nothing to do but admire the fact that in the ranking of countries, you're about... umm... 32.

Imagine getting insanely jealous of the fact that Americans have bigger, umm... bombs.

then imagine that you wake up every day and bitch about that fact on a website, so you can feel complete.

I admire your attempt at humour yet you are systematically resorting to what seems to be a pattern, given the posts in this thread : "oh he doesnt like our crappy inconsequential american poetry ? He must be jealous.Or part of an international antiamerican conspiracy." And this pattern speaks a long deal about ignorance

I think it IS incompatible. The Nation is something purely imaginary, it's only a little part of a human being's identity. Everything else is a psychotic delusion. And the "nation" being the subject of art is, in my opinion, an horrible perversion.

Then obviously national pride never was a factor in any great art... like oh i dunno, the statue of liberty, mount rushmore, the washington monument?



I admire your attempt at humour yet you are systematically resorting to what seems to be a pattern, given the posts in this thread : "oh he doesnt like our crappy inconsequential american poetry ? He must be jealous.Or part of an international antiamerican conspiracy." And this pattern speaks a long deal about ignorance


oh, then why are you hatin?