Nasa lies about Mars atmosphere.Helicopter to fly in Mars" 0.6Percent of earths atmosphere"

a reply to: SpaceBoyOnEarth

I have not yet read the other comments but think about this.

Why would they lie when the Russian's and even the Chinese or Indian's could then come along with there own probe and make them look like crap by showing them to be liars on how thick mars atmosphere is.

Mars is a smaller planet with far less gravitation than the earth so an aircraft would not need as much lift as it does here on earth to fly, since the aircraft they are going to send is going to be unmanned it will need even less lift as it can be lighter than it otherwise would be and it can be built to different aerodynamic specification's tailored specifically to the martian atmosphere which is compared to our own very thin - it was not always so but mars has lost most of it's atmosphere long ago.

www.universetoday.com...

Also the martian helicopter is probably NOT going to fly very high and is likely to be designed to use GROUND AFFECT.
Ground affect is created when the air underneath an air craft is trapped between the air craft and the ground creating a region of increased lift, this is what allow's hovercraft to fly even though they are very unaerodynamic since the air beneath them is trapped between the hovercraft and the ground, helped in there case by a skirt that further trap's the air and allows the heavy vehicle to float on the trapped cushion of air.

en.wikipedia.org...


Now look at this artists impression, it is not the finished product but just an impression so the artist may have it wrong OR he may be working with inside information, notice the over sized rotor, light small body and over sized very thin wire landing gear which is exactly what it will need to fly in the thin martian atmosphere, expect the finished model to look even more gossamer like.
en.wikipedia.org...

Now it is possible also that if they go the Valles Marineris the huge deep canyon scar in the martian crust, assuming it was formed while mars may still have had life then they may find traces of that life still present deep down were the air is thicker and warmer far down in the very deepest parts of that huge canyon valley system, just maybe this is the real goal of this helicopter in the long run and this may just be a dry run to prove the concept work's.

Also it may be the best place to look for water and usable location's for a future human colony site assuming a deep but geologically stable region can be found there is it may afford superior protection to the martian dust storm's that plague the surface of the planet.

I wouldn’t waste my time feeding trolls. This smells lots like “rockets don’t work in a vacuum” threads.

Rockets do not work in the vacuum of space. You will believe anything "expert" scientists say.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: neutronflux

Yeah, the denial and display of ignorance is nauseating.

As mentioned by Arbitrageur, a full scale demonstrator has been tested in a pressure chamber under Martian atmospheric conditions.

The OP could have easily looked this information up by himself before going of on this weird rant about the impossibility of flight on Mars.

a reply to: SpaceBoyOnEarth

You are so absolutely stuck in your own ignorance its hilarious. You refuse to listen or even try to comprehend what people who have actually worked and spent a lifetime in this field are trying to explain to you.

But hey, you're probably right. Its just a NASA pysop so that you wont bother looking for the reptilian overlords that live under your bed. They're masonic and evil and if NASA can convince you that their fake helicopter is flying on mars you wont be able to see them eat your soul. Good thing you busted this conspiracy wide open, Spaceboy.

a reply to: SpaceBoyOnEarth

So the parachutes that have been used to guide every exploration module to the Mars surface is fine, but a helicopter doing the opposite is so impossible it's a conspiracy?

"Air" isn't really an element (avatar the last airbender ftw). Mass and energy is required, other forms of mass beside gases include liquid and solids.



a reply to: carewemust

originally posted by: Chadwickus
This is comedy gold!

Maybe you could sketch up what a Mars helicopter should look like?

It would obviously run on Tesla free energy and be able to discover the intelligent life inhabiting Mars that NASA is covering up from people who are woke.

originally posted by: SpaceBoyOnEarth
They will one day admit mars has higher density when its too obvious to hide.

you're right. everyone here is also in on the conspiracy.

don't listen to anyone's counter arguments, even if yours are weak and based on misconception of basic physics.

originally posted by: SpaceBoyOnEarth
They will one day admit mars has higher density when its too obvious to hide.

This is considerably more likely than you admitting you were wrong.

You're not taking into account that atmosphere is thicker closer to the ground. From what I've read, the Mars helicopter will fly only a few feet above ground level.

Good news is that people who think like the OP never make it in the field of science so mankind will move forward despite the flat earth, no rockets, math and science is fake beliefs.

I also wonder how non propulsive landings with parachutes work in that 0.6% atmo

originally posted by: moebius
a reply to: neutronflux

Yeah, the denial and display of ignorance is nauseating.

As mentioned by Arbitrageur, a full scale demonstrator has been tested in a pressure chamber under Martian atmospheric conditions.

The OP could have easily looked this information up by himself before going of on this weird rant about the impossibility of flight on Mars.

Let's not confuse a good conspiracy theory with facts like a test flight, shall we?

SpaceBoy might think any tests are fakes anyway so how can you convince someone like that?

For people who do want facts though, FauxMulder found a good video showing the test flights and explanations from the design team on how it works.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: SpaceBoyOnEarth

You are so absolutely stuck in your own ignorance its hilarious...

Nice find! The engineer in the video said you might think in 1% of Earth's atmosphere it might not sound too loud, but the thing is loud even in 1% Earth's atmosphere test chamber where it was tested.

An interesting tidbit from the video, only 1/3 of the solar power it collects can be used for the 90 second daily flight. The other 2/3 is needed for heating to keep it from "freezing to death". The electronics and batteries aren't alive, but apparently if the temperatures get too cold it can "kill" them or make them non-functional. Maybe it's thermal stress and that batteries tend to have lower output at colder temperatures. It's an amazing work of engineering, and just because they can do it doesn't mean it was easy, it was a challenge to make it, especially keeping the weight down.

The engineer working on it also said he doesn't think the Mars helicopter can fly on Earth because the atmosphere is too thick...it's designed to work in a thinner atmosphere, but apparently from his comments they haven't tried to fly it in Earth's atmosphere. It could damage something with the atmosphere being over 100 times thicker than what it was designed for. So again if you just try to compare numbers like rpm, it's not an apples to apples comparison when dealing with significantly different designs.

a reply to: KiwiNite

Bigger parachute area and aero braking.

Why no one is telling about the inertia that is created by the spinning blades? Thats one of the huge forces that holds a mass suspended in mid air; also makes it harder to move around. The mass gets bigger but not in the direction of the gravity.

Think about frisbees. If you spin it just enough it wants to stay in mid air. Does it have any propellers to push the air downwards? No. But the inertia makes it hang there.

If you can create a good spin/mass, the amount of molecules you have to push down goes lower.

Still you have to spin it a lot to grab the mars atmosphere enough to lift you. But its not rocket science (see what i did there?)

a reply to: SpaceBoyOnEarth

Actually remember seeing somewhere plans for an airplane to fly in Mars, then the Heli..and yes they would have a hard time flying in the thin atmosphere.
Yes it's a conundrum just like the magic way the solar panels are cleaned on the Mars rover every so often...

a reply to: manuelram16

Not really. It's still just aerodynamics. Aerodynamics 401, not 101, but it's still just aerodynamics.

Here's the, 'Accused' on test in the special JPL, vacuum chamber,



Details,

More about the test: www.space.com...


BTW, it is extremely noisy....

This video goes through many decades of testing for the ideal flying vehicle for Mars, with all the whys and wherefores till it culminated in the Mars chopper for 2020.

originally posted by: belkide
Why no one is telling about the inertia that is created by the spinning blades? Thats one of the huge forces that holds a mass suspended in mid air;

no it's not, that's why nobody is talking about that.

also makes it harder to move around.

That much is true with frisbee physics, or more accurately the gyroscopic effect gives it a stable orientation that helps it fly. But what holds it in the air is lift versus drag.

But its not rocket science

(see what i did there?)

not much science in what you said, but if you want to know the real science of how frisbees work, here's a paper about that.

frisbee physics

The engineers designing the Mars helicopter said they tried to reduce the spinning mass as much as they possibly could, not increase it as you suggest. But they admit that it's unstable and they tried to fly it manually with a joystick and couldn't do it, so it's a totally different design concept than a frisbee which relies on the gyroscopic stability. The Mars helicopter instead relies on sensors to detect the orientation and makes corrections to the orientation electronically faster than a human using a joystick can do it. One of the "secrets" to getting the Mars helicopter to fly in such a thin atmosphere is reducing the mass as much as possible, according to the NASA engineers, and it has an alternative way to attain stability other than the gyroscopic effect used by the frisbee.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

That stability is one of several reasons it's a coaxial design. By using a coaxial rotor you don't need a tail rotor to counteract torque, giving it a better hover ability, as well as being more stable in forward flight.