New Public School approach

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
marg says:


Marg, Mr. Horacid and Mr. Nygdan and Mr. Intrepid and I are having a grownup conversation here.

Hum......may be you all should start your own conspiracy site, all in the name of religion and fundamentalism.

By the way the ATS forums is for everybody not only some...........so I may take it as an isult.

I dont see any harm in offering a diverse world religion class. At the very least it will give the students something to research and write about and I do believe that writing is one of the weaknesses facing college freshmen.

I don't know, my kids learned alot about the different religions in their social studies classes....as did I, way back in the 60's and 70's....
and well, where I can't remember learning much about christianity in the school, I know that my kids learned some of the stories, and history...so, well, I think we already have it...

Originally posted by jrod
I dont see any harm in offering a diverse world religion class. At the very least it will give the students something to research and write about and I do believe that writing is one of the weaknesses facing college freshmen.

I agree with you Rod I remember a way back we had a thread that was about religion and the classroom, I was a teacher for many years and I have to say that religion is not totally taken away from the classroom.

It was a time that the subject of teaching Comparative Religions as an academic discipline was talk about for the schools.

That would have been a wonderful contribution to some of the religious illiteracy that our nation faces.

It could have helped with the prejudice and religious superstitions. But it was denied in the bases that our children do not need any other religious traditions in history but Jesus Christ. Even then religious fundamentalist doesn’t want our Young to become to educated about the history of religion but only what is in the bible.

Sad but true.

Arianna Huffington: "The Founding Fathers were spiritual people and the separation of church and state has been over-interpreted and misinterpreted."
Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, who gave us the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, were not even remotely spiritual as she uses that word. They were Deists and Humanists, as they often clearly stated in their own words.

Funny that fundamentalist keep bringing the church and state is not separation.

James Madison: "Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together. A just government, instituted to perpetuate liberty, DOES NOT NEED THE CLERGY (or the church)." And again: "These are the fruits of the legal establishment known as Christianity: pride and indolence in the clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, and in both clergy and laity, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

Then again we are a nation of many believes beside the Christ.

Arianna Huffington: "We need to welcome God back into our public schools."
1. Her brand of "God," no doubt. Have you ever noticed that it is only the Bible "God" they want back in the schools? Certainly not the unknown Mystery of Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, Native Americans, Classical Humanism and all the other dozens of intelligent concepts of that cosmic Mystery we call "God."

se1.com...

Matthew 4:11:

Blessed are ye when men revile you, and persecute you, and speak all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake.




Just because some of you are not Christians does not mean that others do not have the right to worship as they choose. For all your posturing and claims of loving freedom, you sure do spend a lot of time telling people that they ought not to be able to raise their kids how they bloody well please.

We are as free to live and worship in this nation as the rest of you, and it is hyocritical and arrogant as hell of all of you to try and tell us how things ought to be done based on your world-view, which you assume from its utter lack of moral standards is the superior..

One does not have to be in the minority to be free. Remember that.

Anyways, George Washington was a Mason, not a christian. So there goes founded on christian values.

Also, they have these things called private schools, where religon is taught as fact. Where the earth is flat, center of universe, only 6,000 years old, you know, "facts" supported by the bible. So why should a public governmnet funded school be forced to teach kids something that is wrong?

And who's religon? yours? Why not mine? The Pebble People should be represented. DawnStars religon should be taught, hell, her(her right? also, you know of a game called hyperiums? someone with the name dawningstar has been talking to me.... you two sound the same) religon far btter then yours, her's doesn't have any deaths/blood on it's hands. Unlike christianity which has killed more people then anything else but old age.(and using christian "logic", they have killed far more then that, for is sperm is life, and you kill a man, you kill his sperm, and you kill the kids he could have had, and those kids, so in the end you have trillions killed by christianity) Nice morals, kill anyone who doesn't worship our god. Tonights homeowrk go to the house of a jew/mauslim/atheist/witch/buddist/hindu and kill them. Great morals...

so Christians are stupid, and the religion should be banned?


how can you call yourself a lover of freedom, or of America, when you obviously believe that the only way is your own?

the suggestion is that we give religious parents the option of having their schools incorporate elements of the faith. note the "option" bit. you would still bel free to send your children to a secular school if you do not support any particular religion.

you want us NOT to have that option... you want to RESTRICT our freedom.

do you see that now?

Originally posted by Odd

the suggestion is that we give religious parents the option of having their schools incorporate elements of the faith. note the "option" bit. you would still bel free to send your children to a secular school if you do not support any particular religion.

Are you not free to send your child to a private school? The option is there for you. I still dont understand what the problem is? There is nothing that is stopping any parent who wishes to send their child to a private school, to do so.


JtL,

That was just a little untolorant, dont you think?

Originally posted by DrHoracid

Originally posted by intrepid
What about the rest of that post Doc, you know, the part you didn't quote?

Keep missing that for some reason.

One, no seperation ask and answered

Two funding ask and answered

Three ask and answered.

OK, I see I have to get the finger puppets out to point you in the direction you are conveniently missing. Will you answer this? Just once?

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by DrHoracid
The absence of religion in the schools I pay for is a violation of "MY" right of religion. "The congress shall make no law respecting religion"

Removing prayer from the schools is a 'state" support of religion.

Well, if you put it that way, I guess we'll just put everybody's rights on the shelf so you can have yours.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Again the 'tryany" of the minority is ruining "my" america. The "good" of the one does no outweight the "rights" of the many.

What's that I'm smelling here Doc? Could it be hypocrisy?

You stated two different reasonings here, to whatever suited you at the time. Don't worry though, I've got money on you ignoring this conundrum again.

BTW, when I Googled "school budget cuts" I was wondering why I got 2.7 million hits. Seems funny considering the previous data, don't you think?

I'm home now, so I can concentrate on this.

Kidfinger says:

“Are you not free to send your child to a private school? The option is there for you. I still dont understand what the problem is? There is nothing that is stopping any parent who wishes to send their child to a private school, to do so. “

We already did this discussion a page back, kid. Let me quote from a previous post on this thread:

“Of course, you will hear people ... say that anyone who chooses may send her kid to a private school; but that is a disingenuous argument, because the parent must, in addition to providing good education for her kid, also pay for the government-monopoly school (through her taxes) that she neither wants nor uses!”

”That is analogous to the government telling me that, yes, I may buy a Scion tC for my personal car, but I must also buy the Government Chevy Cobalt, even if I end up leaving it in my garage.”

Originally posted by Off_The_Street


We already did this discussion a page back, kid.

I realize this OTS. The statement was repeated, so I repeated the same answer. Sometime people dont like to read the whpole thread and they have to be told agian of a previous answer given.


Oh, thats Kid with a Capital K. Thanks

[edit on 3/7/05 by Kidfinger]

Which part Kidfinger? They teach the earth is 6,000 years old, which is wrong. Or the history part? The part of the wars, trials, inquisitions, slaughters, and using the christian logic of abortion is murder, masturbation is murder, then all men with sperm are millions dead, all the kids they would have had and then those kids and then those kids and then those kids who were never born are killed by the church, so you have trillions killed.

And I am not being sarcastic, or smug, or smartasses about that, which part is intolerant? It is the truth is it not? Do these people not teach the earth is 6,000 years old? That creation is right and all that evidence is put there by satan? All dino, mammal, whatever fossils were put there by satan, and not older then 6,000 years old, but put there by satan. That the Grand Canyon was created by the world flood of Noah, not by millions of years of erosion........ Sounds like they teach the wrong things to me.

wow, james, that is sensationalist and inaccurate to an extreme.

I'm not going to bother saying any more than that... you believe what you like.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Which part Kidfinger?

Calm down there partner. I was only trying to say as politely as possible that we are all entitled to believe in whatever faith we choose, and as such, we should at least respect that someones opinion differs. We are made up of a very divers religous melting pot here in America, which is one of the main reasons America was founded. A fact we should never forget.

Kid it is, Kid.

I guess that makes us both "capitalists" LOL!

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Kid it is, Kid.

I guess that makes us both "capitalists" LOL!

Well. I do still spell America with a 'c' so I guess so............

Originally posted by DrHoracid

If a child can't bow their head and give thanks at lunch thats "undone". If the ten commandments can't be posted as a reference of how society should act, that's "undone". The schools have them more hours per day than the parents.

Don't take my taxes at "gunpoint" then tell "me" how to teach my child anything.

Practicing someone's cultural habits is NOT what a public school is for.

Originally posted by Aether

Originally posted by DrHoracid

If a child can't bow their head and give thanks at lunch thats "undone". If the ten commandments can't be posted as a reference of how society should act, that's "undone". The schools have them more hours per day than the parents.

Don't take my taxes at "gunpoint" then tell "me" how to teach my child anything.

Practicing someone's cultural habits is NOT what a public school is for.

Your right and teaching so called "multi-culturalisim" which is basically every religion other than Christianity and the perversion of real american history, that is what public schools are for?

Someone please tell the the "HARM" is allowing parents to send their kids to a "values" based school? What are all you afraid of?

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Again the 'tryany" of the minority is ruining "my" america. The "good" of the one does no outweight the "rights" of the many.

This make no sense at all. First off, it's not "your" America, it belongs to everyone. I see no ones rights being violated by this practice.

BTW, if you polled people, you would find that you are the minority on this issue.

wrong interepid, America does not belobng to everyone, it does not for example belong to you, you are not American. America belongs to Americans

ya know, I grew up in a small village....there wasn't that much here back then....but we did have a Catholic School, don't think there was any for the Jewish Faith, or the Protestant Faith, just a Catholic School. I imagine that the Jewish Congregations or The Protestants, or whatever could have had their own school too, if they wanted too....

A Good friend I hadback then was Catholic. I think she had something like five or six brothers and sisters, and they weren't rich. But, they managed to send all those kids to that school....The same with my cousin, but there was only her and her brother.

Now, there is still the Catholic School, and I'm not sure if there is any more. And, there are various church groups operating day care, preschool, and the like. They don't recieve funding directly from the government, but many of their customers are recieving some sort of benefit from the government to help them pay for it.. Social Service will be happy to refer you to these places, if you ask...I have no idea just how "religous" anything is in the place. I doubt if there is much, but do you really need to bring in the word God or religion to teach kids how to get alone with others or play nicely anyways (love thy neighbor as theyself)?

Still don't see any Jewish school around, and well, there should be some of that faith, we have the temples.

Simply put, I don't see what is wanted here. Seems to me, it's the Jews who should be protesting or something. (there very well could be a private school for them I don't know about but, well...) And, in the meantime, any concessions that we give the christian commuity, we would also have to give all the other belief systems also.....
And, I'm serious, if any tax money is going to fund these schools they need to be closely monitored, as far as the content of what is taught.....all of them, not just the ones of the ISlamic faith, since that wouldn't be equal treatment......just to be sure that we aren't funding the training of kids so they can overthrow our government by bombing our malls and such.

And, well, be prepared for some new age oriented schools around....because, I imagine there would be some. I know that there's enough interest, people, and wealth in this area to make it a reality.

[edit on 8-3-2005 by dawnstar]