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California governor pardons 3 convicted immigrants to help block deportations

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posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 02:42 PM
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www.msn.com...






California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Friday he’s pardoning three immigrants who've been convicted of crimes as part of an effort to protect them from deportation to their home countries.





The three men -- originally from El Salvador, Iran and Cambodia --- broke the law as teens or young adults, served their sentences and have taken steps to rehabilitate themselves, the governor’s office said.


While I have no problem pardoning people who are attempting to turn their life around, pardoning people just to protect them from deportation seems somewhat extreme, but then again it is Cali.

There it is ATS.

Have at it.




posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 02:51 PM
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a reply to: highvein


But Newsom’s pardons do not completely shield the men from deportation. The move instead erases the mens' criminal records to prevent past offenses from being considered in their deportation cases. All three men live in Los Angeles County and were brought to the U.S. legally as children, the governor’s office said.


So, legally came to the US as children. Legal residents of US. Committed crimes as juveniles and got rehabilitated in our own system and got released, legally.

What are you suggesting be done with them? Why do you feel pardoning them is wrong, since you say "then again this is Cali?"



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: Oraculi




So, legally came to the US as children. Legal residents of US. Committed crimes as juveniles and got rehabilitated in our own system and got released, legally.


If they are here legally, then how would they get deported in the first place? Why would the Gov of Cali say that is why he is pardoning them? He is the one that said it.



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 02:57 PM
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a reply to: Oraculi

Let's see what the facts are first. Instead of just going by what the governor's office considers "legal" about their entry into the country.



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 03:06 PM
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originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: Oraculi




So, legally came to the US as children. Legal residents of US. Committed crimes as juveniles and got rehabilitated in our own system and got released, legally.


If they are here legally, then how would they get deported in the first place? Why would the Gov of Cali say that is why he is pardoning them? He is the one that said it.


Exactly, can you answer that?

Why would they even be deported? It says nothing in that article that anyone tried to deport them in the first place.

And he did not say that was why he pardoned them, you just linked really crappy reporting that puts a spin on it.

Here is the statement from the Governor's office:


SACRAMENTO – Governor Gavin Newsom today announced that he has granted four pardons and two commutations.

The California Constitution gives the Governor the authority to grant clemency, including in the form of a pardon. A clemency grant recognizes a person’s subsequent efforts in self-development. A clemency grant does not forgive or minimize the harm caused by the crime.

A pardon may remove counterproductive barriers to employment and public service, restore civic rights and responsibilities, and prevent unjust collateral consequences of conviction, such as deportation and permanent family separation. A pardon does not expunge or erase a conviction.

The commutation grants will allow the inmates to go before the Board of Parole Hearings for a hearing at which the Parole Commissioners determine whether the inmate is suitable for release from prison.

The Governor regards clemency as an important part of the criminal justice system that can incentivize accountability and rehabilitation, increase public safety by removing counterproductive barriers to successful reentry, and correct unjust results in the legal system.

The Governor weighs numerous factors in his review of clemency applications, including an applicant’s self-development and conduct since the offense, whether the grant is consistent with public safety and in the interest of justice, and the impact of a grant on the community.

Copies of the gubernatorial clemency certificates announced today can be found here.

Additional information on executive clemency can be found here.


Link

Can you show me where it says this was done to prevent active deportations?



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: Oraculi




Can you show me where it says this was done to prevent active deportations?



From your link.




and prevent unjust collateral consequences of conviction, such as deportation


Your welcome.



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: Oraculi




Can you show me where it says this was done to prevent active deportations?



From your link.




and prevent unjust collateral consequences of conviction, such as deportation


Your welcome.


I see, you're refusing to discuss facts regarding your own OP. I am not going to copy that whole quote again, but the context is in there if you're interested in the truth.

I'll ask again: Can you show me where it says this was done to prevent active deportations?

If you don't want to show me that, I'll play along; what else do you want to talk about, pick a topic? Since you don't want to discuss your OP honestly, we can talk about whatever else you want to.



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 03:29 PM
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originally posted by: Oraculi
a reply to: highvein


But Newsom’s pardons do not completely shield the men from deportation. The move instead erases the mens' criminal records to prevent past offenses from being considered in their deportation cases. All three men live in Los Angeles County and were brought to the U.S. legally as children, the governor’s office said.


So, legally came to the US as children. Legal residents of US. Committed crimes as juveniles and got rehabilitated in our own system and got released, legally.

What are you suggesting be done with them? Why do you feel pardoning them is wrong, since you say "then again this is Cali?"


"The three men -- originally from El Salvador, Iran and Cambodia...38-year old Victor Ayala, who in 2001 at age 21 was convicted of felony robbery and sentenced to probation for pushing a security guard while shoplifting from an electronics store, The Sacramento Bee reported. He also had four prior misdemeanor convictions for theft and a hit-and-run in,
41-year-old Thear Seam, who at age 18 was convicted of robbing a man’s wallet and backpack. He was convicted as an accessory the next year after leading police on a high-speed chase while helping another man, a car thief whole stole a separate vehicle, evade arrest, KTLA reported. Arnou Aghamalian, 42, who as a 22-year-old in 1999 was convicted of helping his cousin set a nightclub owner’s unoccupied car on fire after a dispute. " www.msn.com...
They sound like the typical DemaLib member from Kalifornia. Definatly West Coast role models. Pardoning a felon robber, a high speed thieving car jacker involved in a hit an run, and an arsonist. What could go wrong.



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: Violater1

18 to 41 is 23 years ago.
21 to 38 is 17 years ago.
22 to 42 is 20 years ago.

What do you feel is a long enough time to grant someone clemency after they have been rehabilitated and have not re-offended?

How much does them not being born here have to do with your opinion? And what does this have to do with deportation in the first place? They are all legal residents and none of the people were getting deported in the first place.

If anything, they fit in very well in our society. 29.5% of ALL American adults are criminals and have a criminal record. 8% of all adults are felons. When you walk through your Walmart, or the mall or go to your kids' football game, every 12th adult that walks by you is a felon. 1/12th of the parents and family in the bleachers at the high school game are felons.

What could go wrong?



edit on 19-10-2019 by Oraculi because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: Oraculi

I'd imagine where the disconnect here lies, is they have likely not become citizens yet and were not born here, so as convicted criminals, they could be deported. The article likely assumes people would get that. Gaining citizenship is not automatic. My guess anyway.

I suspect you know that and you're just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse.

The OP said..

I have no problem pardoning people who are attempting to turn their life around, pardoning people just to protect them from deportation seems somewhat extreme


..which is a fair statement to make. It's not even partisan thinking to be honest.
edit on 10/19/2019 by Blaine91555 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 04:41 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Oraculi

I'd imagine where the disconnect here lies, is they have likely not become citizens yet and were not born here, so as convicted criminals, they could be deported. The article likely assumes people would get that. Gaining citizenship is not automatic. My guess anyway.

I suspect you know that and you're just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse.

The OP said..

I have no problem pardoning people who are attempting to turn their life around, pardoning people just to protect them from deportation seems somewhat extreme


..which is a fair statement to make. It's not even partisan thinking to be honest.


Very fair statement to make, if you ignore the facts in this matter. I expect you did not read through all the replies and did not get all the facts before you called someone obtuse.

Now that you know these people offended 20 years ago, got rehabilitated and have not re-offended, has your opinion changed?



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: Oraculi

Can you show me where it says this was done to prevent active deportations?



California governor pardons 3 convicted immigrants to help block deportations


it's in the title to the article linked in the OP. Thick much?



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 04:57 PM
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a reply to: Oraculi




I see, you're refusing to discuss facts regarding your own OP. I am not going to copy that whole quote again, but the context is in there if you're interested in the truth.


What? I answered your question.




I'll ask again: Can you show me where it says this was done to prevent active deportations?


Where in the OP did I address active deportation if context is on any consent?

Once again, and just once more will I point out the part of Your link that addresses deportation.




A pardon may remove counterproductive barriers to employment and public service, restore civic rights and responsibilities, and prevent unjust collateral consequences of conviction, such as deportation


It doesn't mention whether it is active deportation in your link.



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: Oraculi

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: Oraculi

I'd imagine where the disconnect here lies, is they have likely not become citizens yet and were not born here, so as convicted criminals, they could be deported. The article likely assumes people would get that. Gaining citizenship is not automatic. My guess anyway.

I suspect you know that and you're just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse.

The OP said..

I have no problem pardoning people who are attempting to turn their life around, pardoning people just to protect them from deportation seems somewhat extreme


..which is a fair statement to make. It's not even partisan thinking to be honest.


Very fair statement to make, if you ignore the facts in this matter. I expect you did not read through all the replies and did not get all the facts before you called someone obtuse.

Now that you know these people offended 20 years ago, got rehabilitated and have not re-offended, has your opinion changed?


So you feel that pardoning these three men, non Americans, is more important than perhaps looking into some who might still be doing time for drug possession, in a state that now legalizes the same? I only ask, as you seem passionate about these men. Although that attitude is common place among lefties. Immigrants before citizens.



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 05:02 PM
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a reply to: Oraculi




If anything, they fit in very well in our society. 29.5% of ALL American adults are criminals and have a criminal record. 8% of all adults are felons. When you walk through your Walmart, or the mall or go to your kids' football game, every 12th adult that walks by you is a felon. 1/12th of the parents and family in the bleachers at the high school game are felons.


That would depend on how far your want to break down statistics.



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: Oraculi

First, you may not be aware I'm neither a Republican or Democrat, so my views are those of a moderate Independent.

I do not think anyone should ever be pardoned to protect them from deportation. I am not against them being pardoned due to good behavior.

I responded that way because of your tone and I'll admit the Pit is not my cup of tea, so my apologies. I prefer civil conversation without the badgering.

That they came here legally does not mean they remained legal after committing crimes. I'm not that bothered by the Governor doing that, but I'm not keen on governors who try to circumvent federal law and act like they are a separate country.

I am a bit biased since my sister in-law was murdered by an undocumented immigrant in a sanctuary city. He was arrested three times prior to that happening for assaulting other women and yet a sanctuary city policy let him keep doing it. They just kept letting him go the same day he was arrested. Turned out he'd been convicted of 5 brutal rapes in Mexico before crossing the border with corrupt guards help.

I understand it's not relevant to this, but it might explain my views. Victims and families of victims are not so keen on criminal immigrants or sanctuary cities and states. We have enough of our own criminals, without importing them.



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

sorry for your loss.



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 05:33 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555
OMG!
Blaine, I never knew. I'm sorry for your loss.
edit on V342019Saturdaypm31America/ChicagoSat, 19 Oct 2019 17:34:23 -05001 by Violater1 because: ryj



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

Don't worry, I didn't take your 'obtuse' comment that hard. You learn not to take things personally when you have to battle 20 people at once all the time. I feel like a Spartan against dozens of Persians every time I post.


Back on topic, I know what you're saying, and I agree fully, but this is disinformation. The whole premise of this article and the post itself is to imply that these people were being deported and the governor stopped it.

Not true. Not factual.

These are 3 of 6 people that got pardoned, and these three happen to not have been born here. That's the story. 3 people not born here got pardoned.

Nobody issued an order to deport them, nobody was trying to re-arrest them, they did not re-offend. They got pardoned 20 years after they offended, along with 3 other people.

Only some want to make it look like something it is not. That's all I was trying to point out with all these facts.



posted on Oct, 19 2019 @ 06:10 PM
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a reply to: Oraculi

how many non citizens get a pardon each year in California?



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