Pence announces Turkish ceasefire in northern Syria

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets

originally posted by: LookingAtMars

originally posted by: Wayfarer
Maybe I'm crazy, but how is this anything other than Pence negotiating the unconditional surrender of all Kurdish territory and the immediate lifting of all sanctions on Turkey in exchange for nothing?

It is looking like the Kurds will get to keep some land to self govern in Syria now.

I thought Assad gave them protection in the north. And Kurds are all over the place, not just there. Everywhere they are there is conflict with whatever country they are in. Saddam if I recall, he use to have issues with them constantly. At one point he was poising their water in the marshes. For some reason they refuse to acclimate to whatever country they are in. That may be for good reason to since this has been going on for like a century or more.

I have always understood that the Kurds were good people and good fighters. You don't want to be on their bad side that's for sure. They got screwed when the Ottoman land was divided up and have no where to live.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: LookingAtMars

Only if they leave.

They haven't left yet.
I haven't seen any reporting claiming the kurd leaders have ordered them to comply and leave.

From my quote in the OP:

He said US forces had already begun to facilitate the safe withdrawal of Kurdish troops from the area.

a reply to: Oraculi

Seems like Pence is showing people that he CAN do the job of the president

So you will be voting for him in 2024.

Good to hear.

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

Saddam if I recall, he use to have issues with them constantly.

So Dam Insane was such a nice guy /s
The Kurds were the trouble makers /s

originally posted by: Wayfarer
Maybe I'm crazy, but how is this anything other than Pence negotiating the unconditional surrender of all Kurdish territory and the immediate lifting of all sanctions on Turkey in exchange for nothing?

... not to mention, without even have talked to the Kurds. :-) Anyway, isn't a ceasefire usually negotiated between the conflicting parties?

In effect, Turkey gets exactly what they prtend to want*. Trump gets what he wants as well, posing as the preventer of war. The Kurds get nothing. Now, if the Kurds do not leave their homeland, Turkey will resume fighting and Trump will say "Well, they could have left - they didn't, so it is their own fault now".

* It is not what they really want ... which is, according to some recent speeches, restoring Turkey in the borders before 1918, which includes then the town of Aleppo and more territory of northern Syria and Iraq, including Mossul.

a reply to: operation mindcrime

Didnt they just decide to also give part of syria to turkey also? Did syria/russia have any say with this agreement?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: operation mindcrime

Didnt they just decide to also give part of syria to turkey also? Did syria/russia have any say with this agreement?

Turkey controls some land that they took from Syria I think. The details are still being worked out. The main thing Turkey wanted was to get the Kurds off their border.

Text of agreement as being pubslished on twitter and liveupmap:

syria.liveuamap.com...


(hotlinks not allowed, copy and paste the URL)

a reply to: LookingAtMars

Syria did not take any land from Turkey, it is rather the other way around. :-)

a reply to: JustJohnny

you just have to have wars going at all cost don't you. Take it from an old vietnam police action vet , war sucks . When no one wins we all lose . Why not wait and see if this helps before shooting it in the foot .

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: manuelram16

So is there still a 4D chess match with NK or did America just lose????


I kept hearing about this 4D match then too, but we never got anything..

It's between Soros & Bannon....

a reply to: carport

lol, I noticed I got that backwards.

ETA -

Text of agreement as being pubslished on twitter and liveupmap

Claimed to be text of agreement.

Live Map Fixed
Thanks for posting that

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: operation mindcrime

Didnt they just decide to also give part of syria to turkey also? Did syria/russia have any say with this agreement?

Russia just got a multi-Billion dollar oil deal with SA...they're happy.
news.yahoo.com...

Syrian military is impotent.
GCC is embedded inside Syria to help Kurds.
Iran is hung out to dry in Syria.

a reply to: dawnstar

Well obviously Al Asad isn't standing for this and has send it's troops to confront the Turks. Russia is basically taking up the role of (very unbiased ahum) mediator supporting Syria while talking to Turkey.

I think Russia is really going to play this one out by allowing this #storm to continue and use the very good relation between US and Turkey...

Heaping praise on Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Trump said: "He's a hell of a leader. He did the right thing. I have great respect for the president.

And those pesky Islamist militants aka Ahrar al-Sharqiya (anti-Assad rebel group now fighting for Turkey) are never going to behave and war crimes are going to be pilled up to the ceiling. (Look up Hevrin Khalaf..)

Putin, as a permanent member of the Security Council with veto power will address these issues and try to emphasize the warcrimes by Turkey are done with the approval of the US...

Or something like that...nighttime here, bar, beer...brst ignore me.



Peace

a reply to: IAMTAT

Well good, now if Iran can get sorted out everyone in the ME should be happy.

O wait, I forgot about Israel.

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: LookingAtMars
Instant prediction...

Turkey will claim they did not move and continue eradicating then.

Your comment makes no sense... if they move, there will be nothing to eradicate, if they don't, Erdogan made it clear what would happen...

originally posted by: Wayfarer
Maybe I'm crazy, but how is this anything other than Pence negotiating the unconditional surrender of all Kurdish territory and the immediate lifting of all sanctions on Turkey in exchange for nothing?

In exchange for nothing? You call avoiding all out war nothing?

The Kurds have reached an agreement with Assad and will move out of the buffer zone (not sure if they will integrate into Syrian society, or move to some other unoccupied land in Syria).

This is the only sane, rational way for this to have played out.

Trump is a stable genius, and while I'm sure Pence did exactly as he was instructed to do by Trump, he did an amazing job too.

Pelosi, Schumer, Graham and the rest of the war hawks must really be twisting in their panties now. I hope Graham is man enough to admit Trump pulled of a masterful stroke here once the 120 hours expires and the deal is done.

originally posted by: Stupidsecrets
Nobody knows what is going on without bodies on the ground reporting in real time.

Actually, with modern satellite surveillance, this is not true at all.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Wayfarer
Maybe I'm crazy, but how is this anything other than Pence negotiating the unconditional surrender of all Kurdish territory and the immediate lifting of all sanctions on Turkey in exchange for nothing?

In exchange for nothing? You call avoiding all out war nothing?

The Kurds have reached an agreement with Assad and will move out of the buffer zone (not sure if they will integrate into Syrian society, or move to some other unoccupied land in Syria).

This is the only sane, rational way for this to have played out.

Trump is a stable genius, and while I'm sure Pence did exactly as he was instructed to do by Trump, he did an amazing job too.

Pelosi, Schumer, Graham and the rest of the war hawks must really be twisting in their panties now. I hope Graham is man enough to admit Trump pulled of a masterful stroke here once the 120 hours expires and the deal is done.

I'm not sure I'd agree that all out war was some inexorable and unavoidable conclusion. I have a hard time imagining any world in which Turkey opens fire on US troops. Simply leaving a small contingent there as collateral would have been (IMO) more than enough to secure the Kurd's safety....


Furthermore, its already apparent there isn't really any deal, as Turkey is already shelling the Kurd's as they evacuate. I can understand why it would be your prerogative to believe Ergodan when he says there is no shelling (FAKE NEWS! amirite?), but I'm personally more inclined to believe international reports/photo's/videos/eye-witness reports on the ground (to name a few) than a maniacal dictator.

a reply to: underwerks

That's what's wrong with the country today. You're going to take the word of a foreigner over your own Vice President.


FYI
Ceasefire: a temporary suspension of fighting, typically one during which peace talks take place.


Turkey: "It's not a ceasefire, it's a temporary suspension of military operations!"
Democrats: "You dummies! This isn't a ceasefire, Turkey said so!"

Unbelievable.