Giuliani was paid $500K by indicted associate's

originally posted by: Extorris
Rudy might be the actual TARGET of the Grand Jury investigation according to many sources.

Might be, according to many sources...

Riiiiiiiight.

I think I'll wait and see how this fleshes out... it isn't like there haven't been hundreds of things like this that ended up backfiring on the dimwits...

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Extorris
Rudy might be the actual TARGET of the Grand Jury investigation according to many sources.

Might be, according to many sources...

Riiiiiiiight.

I think I'll wait and see how this fleshes out... it isn't like there haven't been hundreds of things like this that ended up backfiring on the dimwits...

AG Bill Barr was in NYC, reviewed the Grand Jury evidence and gave the go on the arrests personally.

You think AG Barr is a dimwit?

a reply to: Extorris

Take a step back.

The investigation is looking into whether these guys were trying to take advantage of their relationship with Guiliani to improperly influence the Trump administration.

It does not follow that Guilliani necessarily did anything wrong. That's the nature of "influence."
I suppose it's possible he did, but that remains to be proven, and so far we're just seeing the Dems' usual tactic of smearing by association.

...and it's quite a coincidence that this happens as Guiliani and Trump are exposing Joe Biden's corruption with Ukrainian companies.

originally posted by: Extorris

Congress did subpoena these guys, but their attorney Dowd said since they were working with the "President's Attorney" on "Behalf of the President" there were "Privlidge" issues and they would not respond to the congressional Subpoena.

It intersects with the impeachment inquiry with these guys working for the Trump Campaign via Giuliani according to their attorneys.
They were also funded by a "Russian Foreign National" and paid Rudy 500k of those funds.

It's getting pretty funny to read the right-wing around here..."Nothing to see"

Their lawyer will say what he thinks will work in their favor, doesn't make it true. This is why two lawyers can argue one case 180 degrees from each other.

The 6 degrees here is to say OK we will accept what that lawyer suggests without the White House concurring with it, then we can say hey wait a minute we can connect them Rudy and since Rudy started as Trump lawyer in April this year we can then connect it all to Trump now and since it was a Super PAC in favor of Trump we can say Trump did it....

What we have is two men that were very big on fund raising for the Republicans in many directions and so connected to many politicians at fund raisers, including Trump with pictures that happen at fund raiser etc. Where they went wrong is they funneled 325k to a Super PAC and it looked suspicious and so the Super PAC never used it and put it into a separate account for future legal investigations. The only connection to Trump is the Super PAC that was pro Trump.

Then we have Mr. Rudy...He has worked with them on occasion and in this case his security company was used as a consultant, and that is where the 500k came from.

The 500k was paid to Giuliani Partners LLC, not Rudy, which is a 30 to 40 million dollar company with about 40 to 50 employees. I think they are mostly a lobbying entity that kind of lost its star power in 2006 when Rudy stepped down as CEO and chairman, but retained 30% stake in it.

In the end what does any of this have to do with Trump outside of their lawyer making claims he can not back up to protect his clients.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
The 500k was paid to Giuliani Partners LLC, not Rudy, which is a 30 to 40 million dollar company with about 40 to 50 employees. I think they are mostly a lobbying entity that kind of lost its star power in 2006 when Rudy stepped down as CEO and chairman, but retained 30% stake in it.

This kind of thing is often misrepresented -- willingly -- by what passes for the media in our country. And yes, conservative outlets do it against Dems, too.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
since Rudy started as Trump lawyer in April this year we can then connect it all to Trump

LAST year. Rudy started as Trump's Attorney in April LAST YEAR. A Few months before he collected the 500k from "Foriegn national 1".

Where they went wrong is they funneled 325k to a Super PAC and it looked suspicious and so the Super PAC never used it and put it into a separate account for future legal investigations.

Misleading or untrue and frankly BS spin. The Super Pac NOW has moved 325K to a sequestered account after the indictment. There is no indication what-so-ever they did so before SHTF. they moved the money now for PR purposes.

The only connection to Trump is the Super PAC that was pro Trump.

That and the whole thing about his Personal Attorney using these guys to manufacture BS in Ukraine and Trump's personal Attorney getting laundered money from these guys from a Russian Foriegn National, all the while working "Pro Bono" as Trump's personal attorney, etc. etc. etc.

Then we have Mr. Rudy...He has worked with them on occasion and in this case his security company was used as a consultant, and that is where the 500k came from.

I used to think you held close to honesty. The company is a shell corp. Rudy got the $$. Not a mystery.

The 500k was paid to Giuliani Partners LLC, not Rudy, which is a 30 to 40 million dollar company with about 40 to 50 employees.

Not anywhere close. They were maybe 10 years ago. They are little more than a cash receivables account for Rudy now. Looking at company profiles, LI, WSJ etc. it looks like it is Just Rudy and some admins now. His only partner on the security end just resigned 5 days ago..timing and such.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
a reply to: Extorris

Take a step back.

The investigation is looking into whether these guys were trying to take advantage of their relationship with Guiliani to improperly influence the Trump administration.

It does not follow that Guilliani necessarily did anything wrong. That's the nature of "influence."
I suppose it's possible he did, but that remains to be proven

Correct.

Rudy's fate hinges on whether the Grand Jury has evidence or obtains evidence and testimony that Rudy knew he was getting paid by a Russian Foreign national for the work. No question about where the money came from, but rather was Rudy aware of the original source.

Trump's fate hinges on the same.

What is not in dispute is Rudy's activity on behalf of Trump regarding Ukraine was paid for by a Russian Foreign National.

Wittingly or unwittingly? That is what determines charges.

So the question is WHY a Russian Foreign national and several of his minions would break laws over a period of years to pay people working on the Trump Campaign to execute a Trump Campaign agenda?

Any answer for me?

a reply to: Xtrozero

And this:

Federal investigation of Rudy Giuliani includes counterintelligence probe

Kenneth McCallion, a New York attorney, says that investigators first approached him earlier this year to ask about Giuliani's ties to Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, two Giuliani associates indicted last week on campaign-finance related charges.
McCallion says FBI counterintelligence agents in February or March asked questions about some of Giuliani's Ukrainian business dealings.

www.cnn.com...

a reply to: Extorris


I guess we will just wait and see how this plays out...

originally posted by: Xtrozero
a reply to: Extorris


I guess we will just wait and see how this plays out...

Indeed.

I for one hope the POTUS is just insanely gullible. The alternative that a healthy portion of the country elected a POTUS intent on serving Russian interests is a very painful thing to imagine for my country. Anyone that can't prove gullibility as a defense I want to see punished to the full extent of the justice system.

originally posted by: Extorris

I for one hope the POTUS is just insanely gullible. The alternative that a healthy portion of the country elected a POTUS intent on serving Russian interests is a very painful thing to imagine for my country. Anyone that can't prove gullibility as a defense I want to see punished to the full extent of the justice system.

The other side of this is Trump is not a politicians and what politicians on both sides do that may be rather shady is seen by all of them as just doing business like they always have done. Trump comes along and now there is a spot light on him to find any shady practices that two years ago were seen as the norm by the political society from the White House to Congress and on downward. There is no way Trump had a single care, interest or knowledge about 325k funneled to a PAC, or Rudy's company gets 500k...

Trump is not inventing anything here and he most likely cares little outside of what he sees as his agendas he wants to get done. There might be a level of ignorance, but it is funny how many of these people around him that were put up on charges were brought to him by the RNC. Obama, Hillary and DNC has more collusion ties with Russia than Trump will ever have since they have had a lifetime of connections, and the Steel dossier with its direct ties is simple proof of many.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
Trump comes along and now there is a spot light on him to find any shady practices that two years ago were seen as the norm by the political society from the White House to Congress and on downward.

Please.

I have been around here longer than my avatar.

I remember you better than this.

There was no spotlight on Pres. Obama? The man who was excoriated on Fox News for weeks for fist bumping his wife?
The last guy got a free pass?

Trump is just doing what has always been done, but NOW there is scrutiny upon the POTUS?

For effs sake, salvage some reason I can take you seriously so I can still believe ATS has legitimate debaters.

a reply to: Extorris

Did they at Least get a Receipt ?

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
a reply to: Extorris

Take a step back.

The investigation is looking into whether these guys were trying to take advantage of their relationship with Guiliani to improperly influence the Trump administration.

It does not follow that Guilliani necessarily did anything wrong. That's the nature of "influence."
I suppose it's possible he did, but that remains to be proven

Correct.

Rudy's fate hinges on whether the Grand Jury has evidence or obtains evidence and testimony that Rudy knew he was getting paid by a Russian Foreign national for the work. No question about where the money came from, but rather was Rudy aware of the original source.

Trump's fate hinges on the same.

What is not in dispute is Rudy's activity on behalf of Trump regarding Ukraine was paid for by a Russian Foreign National.

Wittingly or unwittingly? That is what determines charges.

So the question is WHY a Russian Foreign national and several of his minions would break laws over a period of years to pay people working on the Trump Campaign to execute a Trump Campaign agenda?

Any answer for me?

Wow, that's a pretty severe leap in logic, chief. Guiliani's company had these guys as a client. That does not mean Rudy was getting paid by the Russians.

Oh how juicy!!

a reply to: Sookiechacha

a reply to: Extorris

What wrong with getting paid for work. People do that all the time. The US Ambassador is corrupt and even the Ukraine prime minister knows it. She thinks she can order Ukraine to indict who and who not to indict including Biden's criminal enterprise.

What they are charge for is not register as a foreign lobbyist same crime as Manafort and half of Democrats, but the law only applies to Trump supporters.

originally posted by: Extorris
AG Bill Barr was in NYC, reviewed the Grand Jury evidence and gave the go on the arrests personally.

You think AG Barr is a dimwit?

Nope... but I was talking about Rudy, not the two who were arrested.

You seem to be equating the two.

a reply to: Extorris

You think AG Barr is a dimwit?

nope
he made the correct determination on the muller report when muller did not
AG Barr is a straight shooter, right?

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
a reply to: Extorris

Take a step back.

The investigation is looking into whether these guys were trying to take advantage of their relationship with Guiliani to improperly influence the Trump administration.

It does not follow that Guilliani necessarily did anything wrong. That's the nature of "influence."
I suppose it's possible he did, but that remains to be proven

Correct.

Rudy's fate hinges on whether the Grand Jury has evidence or obtains evidence and testimony that Rudy knew he was getting paid by a Russian Foreign national for the work. No question about where the money came from, but rather was Rudy aware of the original source.

Trump's fate hinges on the same.

What is not in dispute is Rudy's activity on behalf of Trump regarding Ukraine was paid for by a Russian Foreign National.

Wittingly or unwittingly? That is what determines charges.

So the question is WHY a Russian Foreign national and several of his minions would break laws over a period of years to pay people working on the Trump Campaign to execute a Trump Campaign agenda?

Any answer for me?

Wow, that's a pretty severe leap in logic, chief. Guiliani's company had these guys as a client. That does not mean Rudy was getting paid by the Russians.

These guys had no money of their own and their companies were SHELL companies without clients.

They conned people out of money for fake movies, fake investments...spent all the il gotten funds and then moved on to laundering money for Russian Official 1.

Reading the indictment and looking at their debt, foreclosures, lawsuits etc.
They laundered money for an unnamed Russian.
YES the 500k Rudy got came from Russian Official 1.

There is also no evidence what-so-ever that Giuliani did any work for this shell company.

Rudy has refused to show any documents or proof any work was ever done involving this shell company.
He refused a subpoena for documents about the work.

Again, the question that matters most is if Rudy knew where the money came from.



Florida man tied to Giuliani Ukraine work leaves trail of debt
www.miamiherald.com...

Their relationship with Parnas dates back to 2010, long before House investigators started asking questions about him and Fruman. Parnas solicited Michael Pues for a $350,000 bridge loan to help finance a movie called “Anatomy of an Assassin,” according to a lawsuit filed in 2011.

“He financially ruined us,” Dianne Pues said. “Our lives have not been the same since the day we met him.”

Giuliani’s arrested associates have tangled past
www.ft.com...

www.buzzfeednews.com...

originally posted by: ambassado12
a reply to: Extorris

What wrong with getting paid for work. People do that all the time.

What was the work?