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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Any examples of a modern national economy that is both successful and based enitrely on capitalism?
originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Gryphon66
There are pure socialism societies...The vast majority of tribal societies were 100% socialism..
"Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment. I knew that age well; I belonged to it, and labored with it. It deserved well of its country."
“I am certainly not an advocate for frequent and untried changes in laws and constitutions. I think moderate imperfections had better be borne with; because, when once known, we accommodate ourselves to them, and find practical means of correcting their ill effects.”
"Laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths disclosed, and manners and opinions change with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also, and keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."
originally posted by: dfnj2015
The left believes government has a role in regulating businesses and ensuring free-markets, protecting consumers, protecting workers rights with public policies, and tempering the excesses and inequalities created by laissez faire capitalism.
It's kind of mind boggling to me the way the right thinks. It's always all or nothing. I see government has a role in curbing the abuses of power by having so much wealth concentrated into so few hands.
“Every sanction or weapon or policy or procedure – including law where law survives distinct from authority – which the State commands against both human beings and against other principalities carries the connotation of death, implicitly threatens death, derives from and symbolizes death … Enumerate the usual prerogatives of the State and it becomes plain that each and every one of them embodies the meaning of death: exile, imprisonment, slavery, conscription, impeachment, regulation of production or sales or prices or wages or competition or credit; confiscation, surveillance, execution, war. Whenever the authority of the State is exercised as such ways as these, the moral basis of that authority remains the same: death. That is the final sanction of the State and it is the only one.”
originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JustJohnny
There is a big difference between best idea and "perfect" isn't there?
Of course, their idea still worked out fairly well when it allowed the loose framework call the COTUS to be Amended because eventually most people decided that those things needed to change.
And you're right, the Founders would have laughed at the idea that what they left was perfect which is exactly why they added the Amendment process so things could change as needed. The problem most of you have these days is with the idea that if *you* think a thing is moral, then everyone needs to think that way and if not everyone does then you need to wave your magic wand and force everyone to through the law.
It doesn't work out quite that way. For moral and social issues, you have to use persuasion because there is no science to back you up, just like there is no science to back up the existence of God.
originally posted by: dfnj2015
I am sick and tired of being called a communist or socialist. My problem with people on the right is they are always trying to label people. People on the right are always determined to define what it means to be on the left. I'm sure people could possibly perceive the left as being the same way with the right. But I don't think people on the left have the "my way or the highway" mentality as strong as the people on the right do.
Recently I was in a thread and someone posted the following:
"The right believes in small government, and big freedom. "
"the left believes in big gov and restriction of rights"
This is a rather derogatory and negative way of looking at the left. So given than I am a liberal Democrat and much further to the left the many of the Trump cultists posting on ATS everyday here is my way of characterization left versus right. I tried to do this a little more fairly but it is impossible for me not to be a little derogatory of the right.
The right believes in anarchy, laissez faire capitalism, exploitation of workers, gouging consumers, freedom from consumer protections laws, and paying politicians to pass laws preventing competition in order to have monopolies and cartels.
The left believes government has a role in regulating businesses and ensuring free-markets, protecting consumers, protecting workers rights with public policies, and tempering the excesses and inequalities created by laissez faire capitalism.
It's kind of mind boggling to me the way the right thinks. It's always all or nothing. I see government has a role in curbing the abuses of power by having so much wealth concentrated into so few hands. However, if you say anything at all, even the most mildest regulation, the response is like a nuclear bomb of absolutes like calling someone a "communist". If you propose one small law at all for regulating business you are supposedly eliminating private ownership of companies in some people's eyes. It's either absolute freedom or communism. There is no in between.
I think government has a role in promoting the commonwealth and general welfare. I think the words of FDR best characterize what in means to be liberal Democrat.
"An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.
For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.
Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government."
Speech before the 1936 Democratic National Convention
I don't think Republicans and people on the right get to define what it means to be on the left. I think what it means to be on the left is mostly the responsibility of people who ARE on the left.
I do not have much hope things are going to change with people on the right. People are the right are not going to evolve into having the ability to make compromises.
Until the dollar collapses to nothing in value the majority of people really do not care much about politics. And if they did I'm not sure the way the system is rigged anyone could really do anything about it. The real owners of this country are never going to allow any real change from our scarcity economy no matter how much gains come in productivity from automation. Scarcity and controlling access is the source of the billionaires power.
originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Bloodworth
Your post: opinion or claim?