Turkey's Syria invasion: Member of US Special Forces says, 'I am ashamed for the first time in my

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

In that case Trump is still abandoning allies to the wolves. Only now he's also a weak, ineffective, leader that bows down to the demands of other countries without getting anything in return.

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

What happens if the pressure gets to be overwhelming for the Kurds holding the ISIS fighters and the ISIS fighters are freed

Ergodan will recycle them to fight the Kurds.

a reply to: sooth

Yeah, it is a terrible situation for the Kurds. But just ask yourself, if the insane social justice left and the old war criminal NeoCon right are both in agreement about something do you think it would be prudent to wonder why?

Normal people are against genocide, odd notion to you maybes but...

The U.S. has been in a shadow war with China, Russia, Turkey, Iran, etc. for a good while.

How? putin owns trump, everything bonespur does helps Russia. Russia are now Turkey's main arms supplier and with them given the go ahead to wipe people out by the American president Turkey are gonna need more arms.
Bombing an empty warehouse in Syria wasn't dumb luck, Russia said bomb this, you'll look strong to your supporters and opponents can't knock you as nobody gets killed.
China haven't done anything of note in a lifetime while, Iran is always a target for conservatives despite not causing any trouble, ever really. Booting out the Shah and being invaded by US backed saddam hussein cant be seen as aggression by Iran, if your rational of course.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

In that case Trump is still abandoning allies to the wolves. Only now he's also a weak, ineffective, leader that bows down to the demands of other countries without getting anything in return.

He is not. This was the plan that Syria, Russia, Turkey and the USA had. This was going to happen and unfortunately, the Kurds did not go along with the plan. And the Kurds are doing just what they said they would do and everyone knew this was going to be how it was because of that stance. Get a grip.

When did everyone on conspiracy sites start to believe that all these moves weren't planned out decades ago? You think Trump was not planned out? Of course he was. And like the Kurds, who will not accept the plans, we have some leftist weirdos that don't agree. These people are going to go down, just like the Kurds will before the Turks. It's just a matter of time. All gamed out long ago too. Sheesh.

The plan is coming along nicely. Just have to remove the holdouts that refuse to play ball with it. Gonna happen. Watch and see. Not much in the political arena is an accident, mistake or on the fly planning. Flying by the seat of your pants is for idiots on the world stage. And the USA is not idiotic. LOL Even if y'all want to believe it, doesn't make it so. The Kurds were NOT abandoned. They could have moved on but they refused. It's their own stubbornness that will get them killed. You can not stop people from rushing to their dooms it seems. As any junkie can tell you as they make excuses why they can not get off the junk. LOL

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: Riffrafter

Oh yeah that's an excellent idea

Send prayers over for them Not much anyone else can do with the Turkish onslaught

I didn't say that.

I said there's not much any of *us* can do (from behind our keyboards I meant).

Why do you seem intent on picking a fight?

a reply to: Shamrock6

Whining about snark is pretty rich when it comes on the heels of telling somebody they must not support the military because they disagree with something you said.

Good point.

Touche.

heh, it's like clockwork, how yall flipped.

but yeah let me pretend to take yall serious.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Riffrafter

Are you suggesting we have a full scale invasion/war and steal land from Syria and/or other countries and give it to the Kurds?

I'm not suggesting anything.

I'm simply saying that Trump will probably face political fallout from all sides on this issue.

Do you disagree?

I disagree.

And it seems as though you agree with Trump, but you don't care he is doing what is right you are full of glee at how it can hurt him. It's shameful.

So you disagree that he will be on the receiving end of political fallout?

Just from the posts and threads here, I think that's obviously incorrect.

Why would you think I agree with Trump? Just because I'm not rabidly anti-Trump?

I am NOT a Trump fan, but I will give him the credit that he's due on accomplishing a few thorny things (Iran, etc) since he's been in office. I tend to judge people and issues independent of whatever the popular or unpopular opinion is.

I'm sure I don't always succeed, but don't mistake my giving him credit for an action for blind loyalty on my part, because nothing is further from reality. I judge politicians based on the position they hold on issues that I care about. And a few have changed my mind over the years. I try to not be rigid and dogmatic in my beliefs, although I'm sure it doesn't always come across that way. Text is a terrible medium for certain conversations - n'est pas?

a reply to: sybdragon

Turkey talked about this buffer zone a long time ago and Russia agreed with it in 2018. I would think Russia hasn't changed their minds.

Why would Russia changed their minds ? The best case scenario would that the Kurds will make an alliance with the Damascus which will bring the Kurds under the Russia - Iran influence. As for Turkey plans for a buffer zone is nothing more than an excuse to remove the Kurd population from that area and replace them with the arab sunite population that are friendly to Turkey. That is not a genocide but an ethnic cleansing. Just as happen before.

1. Armenians in Turkey (1915-1918)
2. Greeks in Asia Minor and Thrace (1915-1923)
3. Serbs in Croatia (1941-1945)
4. Jews in Nazi Germany (1941-1945)
5. many more

You get the picture.

The EU refused to help Turkey fund the refugee camps they have and Turkey is deporting Syrians and others because according to all accounts, the Syrian engagement is over.

Not true at all. Turkey is receiving from the EU 3 Billion € every year for the refugees.

I actually pity the EU at this point. Sucks to be them.

Actually you should pity USA and not EU. USA showed the world how weak they are by bowing down to Erdogan and breaking their alliance with the Kurds. Turkey would have never attacked the Kurds as long USA ( around 1000 US -Soldiers spread over Northern Syria) was beside the kurds.

They had plenty of time to move out of there and didn't.

No they didn´t. They found out when President Trump made the announcement. By that time was too late.

The USA is NOT the world's policeman. We should NOT have to be. Take care of your own crap. Surprisingly, people bitch and moan about the USA being a bully. And when we leave they bitch and moan about how we left them in a lurch

No they are not. They simply go in make a mess and let the world deal with the consequences when they leave. In Syria conflict however they allied with the Kurds to eradicate ISIS, which costed the live of 10000 Kurds sofar.

I actually pity the EU at this point. Sucks to be them. War is coming to them and it will be on their own soil. The USA will NOT help with it as it's an internal matter and we have our own internal war going on in the USA.

Then it´s high time for the USA to remove all their soldiers and bases from the EU and break the NATO alliance with the EU- Countries that they are part of. Is that what you are suggesting ?

They are the ones that are resisting this and will get no help besides the protection of civilians if they get that.

Of course they are resisting as the defend their land. Would you have let any country creating a 20 mile buffer zone inside USA ? Would you have resisted or let it happen ?

Just like the EU is going to handle all their citizens or visitors to their countries.

I am sure the EU will deal with it when the time comes.

Findings include:

1. Of a total estimated 3,922 – 4,294 foreign fighters from EU Member States, around 30% have returned to their home countries.

2.A majority of around 2,838 foreign fighters come from just four countries: Belgium, France, Germany, and the United Kingdom, with Belgium having the highest per-capita FF contingent.

3.There is no clear-cut profile of a European foreign fighter. Data indicates that a majority originate from metropolitan areas, with many coming from the same neighbourhoods, that an average of 17% are female, and that the percentage of converts among foreign fighters ranges from 6% to 23%.

4.The radicalisation process of foreign fighters is reported to be short and often involves circles of friends radicalising as a group and deciding to leave jointly for Syria and Iraq.

The Foreign Fighters Phenomenon in the EU

Fighting Turkey, their mortal enemy for life, and leaving this camp/prison unguarded for all those criminals to flee to the EU and parts unknown.

Well they will be forced to abandon those camps with their 11000 ISIS fighters, and go and defend the Northern part of Syria from the Turkish invasion. Which will result in a new mess in the Middle East.

Peace

a reply to: sybdragon

That was a really well thought out response.

My hat is off to you.



I see you're a new member - I think this was your 9th post. Well done!

It bodes well for ATS and it's existing members if new members have a mind and an ability to articulate their positions as well as you do.

Welcome!

I'll see you 'round the threads!

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

In that case Trump is still abandoning allies to the wolves. Only now he's also a weak, ineffective, leader that bows down to the demands of other countries without getting anything in return.

What allies? What do you think Trump should do for them? What is the end game, what is the goal?

a reply to: Riffrafter

The fallout I see is mostly liberals wanting to make a huge deal over something they actually agree with.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Riffrafter

I suggest he come back to the USA and help reduce the number of Americans killed by citizens and illegal aliens. That's where our #1 priority should be.

"Wouldn't it be pretty to think so?"

My apologies to Hemingway for borrowing one of his lines from "The Son Also Rises"

But this man is a soldier. And soldiers follow orders. Period.

My suggestion would be to anyone that disagrees with this "policy" go ahead and become commander-in-chief and then our troops will follow your orders.

But until that day arrives, feel free to express your opinion but understand that that's all it is - an opinion.

And the soldier cares nothing about opinions.

He can't afford to.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Riffrafter

The fallout I see is mostly liberals wanting to make a huge deal over something they actually agree with.

I'm sure they hate it when that happens too.

As would anyone.

originally posted by: Seed76
a reply to: sybdragon


2.A majority of around 2,838 foreign fighters come from just four countries: Belgium, France, Germany, and the United Kingdom, with Belgium having the highest per-capita FF contingent.

3.There is no clear-cut profile of a European foreign fighter. Data indicates that a majority originate from metropolitan areas, with many coming from the same neighbourhoods, that an average of 17% are female, and that the percentage of converts among foreign fighters ranges from 6% to 23%.

4.The radicalisation process of foreign fighters is reported to be short and often involves circles of friends radicalising as a group and deciding to leave jointly for Syria and Iraq.

Well they will be forced to abandon those camps with their 11000 ISIS fighters, and go and defend the Northern part of Syria from the Turkish invasion. Which will result in a new mess in the Middle East.

Peace




Sorry, had to get rid of some characters so I deleted most of that so I can have more characters.

Are you saying the Kurds were so stupid they didn't know the USA was going to leave? This wasn't the first time Trump tried to pull the USA outta there. Our goal there is done. Our goal was not to protect Syrian land but to take out ISIS. ISIS holds no land in Syria and the USA is done. If the Kurds didn't realize this, they are idiots. The USA has already told the Kurds they would not get a 'homeland' out of this because Syria wouldn't allow it. That's Syria's call, not the Kurds. The Kurds are nothing. They are under Syria's law and control. IF Syria doesn't fight Turkey, why are the Kurds?

The only mess is going to be the ones that drink the kool-aid and think they can carve out a country without any help from other countries. Which the Kurds do not have and do not expect as they have been told directly, "IT'S NOT HAPPENING." Not one country down there is willing to give the Kurds their own country, USA or not. If they do, Turkey will attack them as Turkey has already promised to do. The Kurds should NOT be running to this fight. That camp/prison is not in the buffer zone and the Kurds would be safe there but they are leaving and walking right into Turkey's fire. This was not done on the fly. Why do you think it was? This crap has been being talked about for years now. No surprise in any of this stuff.

The Kurds told Turkey if they come, the Kurds would meet them in battle. Syria obviously wants nothing to do with it or they would have sent some troops to guard that border but they are not. Russia is not. This is an age old fight between age old enemies. The USA needs to butt out of their affairs and mind their own business.

Our goal was done. Once the job is done, you get paid and you leave. Do you usually hang around after you finish a job or something? Just so you can butt in someone's business you have no right to be in? When does this crap end? Never?

The EU may be paying some but according to Turkey it's not enough for the bills. Turkey is tired of paying because Turkey was not suppose to pay as Turkey was helping the EU out. Like Erdogan stated, "I will open the floodgates and let them flow into the EU." That wasn't a threat. It's a fact.

Some history you might not think is relevant but I do. I remember Gaddafi. I remember when he told the world that if he left Libya, Africans would rush into Europe. Everyone thought he was nuts. He wasn't. What he stated came true. You can look at the USA and their problems with illegal aliens. Notice Mexico is now acting like a gatekeeper at their southern border whereas before they were just letting them walk on through. Turkey is the EU's Mexico holding back those people. If Turkey steps out of the way, the EU will be flooded with people. But you don't have to believe me. So the EU is paying Turkey but Turkey says it's not enough so Turkey has started deporting people.

Turkey wants this buffer area to shove people into that are not Turks. Guess you think he should allow them to walk on through to the EU? Turkey doesn't want them in their country either. Just like when the Mexicans found out they were stuck with those migrants instead of them just traveling through. They are not happy about that these days.

It doesn't matter why Turkey wants that buffer or how big it is. All the big players have approved it. The Kurds are the only holdouts and will get no help. It doesn't matter how or where one gets radicalized. What matters is you did and you are a citizen of somewhere. The EU countries don't want to take back any of them and are looking for ways to remove citizenship from them. Hell, even some of those punks are from the USA, radicalized in the USA but the USA took them off and are putting them on trial. We aren't just leaving them to rot there.

The USA has no business there. The USA made no promises to the Kurds. This was a planned move and everyone there knew about it. It was not a shock to anyone but the ones that were not looking at that area. The Kurds are in the wrong. Turkey is calling them terrorist and at this time, attacking Turkey and not going along with the deal their own government made is called treason and rebellion where I'm from. What do you call it?

originally posted by: Riffrafter
a reply to: sybdragon

That was a really well thought out response.

My hat is off to you.

I see you're a new member - I think this was your 9th post. Well done!

It bodes well for ATS and it's existing members if new members have a mind and an ability to articulate their positions as well as you do.

Welcome!

I'll see you 'round the threads!

Thank you. I can get long winded at times. LOL See ya 'round the threads.

a reply to: sybdragon

Sorry, had to get rid of some characters so I deleted most of that so I can have more characters.

No worries. You could just quote the relevant parts instead of the whole reply, by using [.quote] TEXT [./quote] without the dots. That way you will have more characters to your disposal. And welcome to ATS.

Are you saying the Kurds were so stupid they didn't know the USA was going to leave?

No. All i am saying is that the kurds were promised protection by the USA. And as long were US-Troops there spread out on the North Syria, Turkey would have never attacked. But after a call by Erdogan to Trump on the same day Trump ordered the withdraw of the US-Troops from the North part.

For weeks, the two Nato allies have been working to set up a buffer zone along the Syrian-Turkish border, in an attempt to keep US-backed Kurdish forces at least 32km from Turkey.

However, Ankara has been growing frustrated with the progress, and began to prepare for an assualt into Kurdish-held areas of northeast Syria to clear them of the YPG militia.

Though Turkey considers the YPG an arm of the outlawed PKK militant group, the Kurdish militia has been the US's principal partner on the ground in its fight against the Islamic State group (IS).

Work with us in Syria or get out of our way, Erdogan told Trump

If they do, Turkey will attack them as Turkey has already promised to do.

Attack who ? Bashar-al-Assad ? Like to see that to happen since Assaf is backed by Russia and Iran.

Our goal was done. Once the job is done, you get paid and you leave. Do you usually hang around after you finish a job or something?

Nope, but i am placing safeguards for the fall that something goes wrong. And certainly i am not going away without ensuring those safeguards are in place. President Trump removed those safeguards( pulling out Troops).

The EU may be paying some but according to Turkey it's not enough for the bills.

It´s more than enough, but the problem of Erdogan is that he wants 100% of the money to be government money. Currently the 3 Billion € that Trukey receiving is split between the NGO´s that catering the refugees camps. The rest goes directly to Erdogan.

Some history you might not think is relevant but I do. I remember Gaddafi. I remember when he told the world that if he left Libya, Africans would rush into Europe. Everyone thought he was nuts. He wasn't. What he stated came true.

Well he stated the obvious. But here is some piece of information that you might find relevant and offtopic concerning Gaddafi taken out by NATO.

This gold was accumulated prior to the current rebellion and was intended to be used to establish a pan-African currency based on the Libyan golden Dinar. This plan was designed to provide the Francophone African Countries with an alternative to the French franc (CFA).

Hilary Emails Reveal NATO killed Gaddafi to stop Lybian creation of Gold-baked Currency

What do you call it?

I call it a win for Bashar al-Assad.

The winner of today’s American withdrawal and any future war between Turkey and the Syrian Kurds will be Assad. And that will be a sad end to a revolution.

Bashar al Assad is the real winner of Trump abandoning the Kurds in Syria

Peace

originally posted by: Riffrafter

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: Riffrafter

Oh yeah that's an excellent idea

Send prayers over for them Not much anyone else can do with the Turkish onslaught

I didn't say that.

I said there's not much any of *us* can do (from behind our keyboards I meant).

Why do you seem intent on picking a fight?

Lost me on this one and I expect you misread it but all respect to you and love too.............. None of the sort about any intentions I was being genuine as prayer is good, as a Christian I pray all the time for a better world and more love

I think this is a stratigick move by the US and Turkey. The US are not pulling out they are just making room for Turkey to do some shaking.

Putin have already said that Turkey could be setting free ISIL fractions by doing this. Russia is watching Turkeys every move.

a reply to: Seed76

Protection against who? For how long? What was the end goal?