War: Can China take Russia with 200 million men?

And China's health care system? The United States has the best health-care system in the world, and it was even better until Hillary Clinton messed it up by trying to socialize it. Most other nations such as Canada, Britain, Germany, etc...have socialized health care systems, which aren't nearly as good.

With China having such a large population, there is no way they can have a socialized health care system that provides decent health care. It would have to be a private health care system, like the United States. Which again creates a problem, because then the Chinese are going to have to have a population that can all afford this health care system. The United States already has a problem with this, in that only 50% can actually afford the health care here to utilize it to its fullest. The poor folk are on government wlefare which pays for it, which is wrong. How the heck is a country with more than 1 billion people going to create a health care system that's all that great? Half of China's population is OVER 500 million, which is approximately 200 million more than in the United States right now. Meaning for the Chinese health care system to support half their population as well as the U.S. one does, it will have to support a population larger than the United States, still.

Which means this population is going to have to make some darn good money. And that isn't going to happen, because it would require too many resources economically to generate an economy that strong to support that many people. Also, the Chinese are going to have to create regulations in their manufacturing to make sure the corporations there pay the workers properly, which won't happen (there's a reason why so many corporations move to China; it's because of the CHEAP labor force).

Also, much of the successful industry in China right now is not under control by the government, meaning it can tell the government to go you know where if there is interference. Much of it is privately-owned by individuals who have clout with the government officials, and the other parts are foreign-owned.

Originally posted by WheelsRCool
And China's health care system? The United States has the best health-care system in the world, and it was even better until Hillary Clinton messed it up by trying to socialize it. Most other nations such as Canada, Britain, Germany, etc...have socialized health care systems, which aren't nearly as good.

With China having such a large population, there is no way they can have a socialized health care system that provides decent health care. It would have to be a private health care system, like the United States. Which again creates a problem, because then the Chinese are going to have to have a population that can all afford this health care system. The United States already has a problem with this, in that only 50% can actually afford the health care here to utilize it to its fullest. The poor folk are on government wlefare which pays for it, which is wrong. How the heck is a country with more than 1 billion people going to create a health care system that's all that great? Half of China's population is OVER 500 million, which is approximately 200 million more than in the United States right now. Meaning for the Chinese health care system to support half their population as well as the U.S. one does, it will have to support a population larger than the United States, still.

Which means this population is going to have to make some darn good money. And that isn't going to happen, because it would require too many resources economically to generate an economy that strong to support that many people. Also, the Chinese are going to have to create regulations in their manufacturing to make sure the corporations there pay the workers properly, which won't happen (there's a reason why so many corporations move to China; it's because of the CHEAP labor force).

Also, much of the successful industry in China right now is not under control by the government, meaning it can tell the government to go you know where if there is interference. Much of it is privately-owned by individuals who have clout with the government officials, and the other parts are foreign-owned.

actually that's quite not right, because many hospitals in china are run by the government, they give extreme cheap offers that can be accepted even by those ones who are not rich.

and all the government related jobs have pretty much a free care support

this is mainly due to the low income of the MDs in china, but in return, the MDs are awarded with other bonuses.

he major problem in china lies with its western terriories, because there are few people live in there, only a few hospitals are built to cover a huge area and the medical equipments are not advanced.

China is quite a strange country in the eyes of most westerners. thing are often working quite differently there. mostly due to the vast difference between the chinese society and white's society.

[edit on 7-6-2006 by warset]

Originally posted by WheelsRCool
And China's health care system? The United States has the best health-care system in the world, and it was even better until Hillary Clinton messed it up by trying to socialize it. Most other nations such as Canada, Britain, Germany, etc...have socialized health care systems, which aren't nearly as good.

Actually you don't, Australia has the worlds best health care system. From what I've read and heard America's health are is far from decent, unless of course you hvae a bit of amoney.
Also, AMericans are far less healthy, just look at your obesity rate and all teh health care problems associated with that.

Also, the Chinese are going to have to create regulations in their manufacturing to make sure the corporations there pay the workers properly, which won't happen (there's a reason why so many corporations move to China; it's because of the CHEAP labor force).

You mean like America and their illegal immigrant slave labour force. The workers in China may not have a high income on a direct monetary comparison of incomes, however teh purchasing power is about the same, actually it is better in China. A DVD player for example costs about 200 RMB ( $US25 ) and a brand new DVD costs about 10 RMB ( $US1.25 ).

[edit on 7-6-2006 by rogue1]

No, the United States has the best health care. Australia utilizes a socialist health care system, which is never as good as private health care. In socialist health care, you don't get near the quality of treatment for different things as the salary of doctors and physicians is pretty much set. They don't have any incentive to work harder.

You are right, the health care system in the U.S. is a bit screwy unless you have a lot of $$$, thanks to the prior damage done to it. As for Americans themselves, their health has nothing to do with health care, it has to do with their eating habits, which are very bad.

As for the "illegal immigrants," they are not slaves. Slaves don't come to a nation on their own accord and receive the benefits of public education and health care without paying taxes, as the illegal immigrants do, which is why people want them out.

200 mill is a lot my guess more like 20 mill thats how many more men than
women they have and Russia would DOMIATE. China would run home to mommy.

Originally posted by Crazy_Mr_Crowley

China would never fight Russia as they are now allies and there are growing military ties between the two and among others.

Yeah..
Just like India and Russia are good friends and have military exercises every year..
no wait.. India has em' every year with the US as well!
and the French!
and the Israelis..
Military exercises and purchases don't govern friendships, common interests do. Russia and China do have a few common interests but they have massive differences too.

Originally posted by WheelsRCool
No, the United States has the best health care. Australia utilizes a socialist health care system, which is never as good as private health care. In socialist health care, you don't get near the quality of treatment for different things as the salary of doctors and physicians is pretty much set. They don't have any incentive to work harder.

Erm no, we have both private and public health care, we just have a much much better public health care system than the US, our private system is just as good and quite possibly better than the US as well.

As for Americans themselves, their health has nothing to do with health care, it has to do with their eating habits, which are very bad.

Which is what I said, combine that with the laziness of americans and you hvae one hell of a health problem, just look at your kids. Doesn't bode well for teh future.

As for the "illegal immigrants," they are not slaves. Slaves don't come to a nation on their own accord and receive the benefits of public education and health care without paying taxes, as the illegal immigrants do, which is why people want them out.

They also get paid jack# in teh US as well. Whose going to do teh jobs once the illegals are gone no one - teh american people think they are too good to do most of teh jobs they allow illegals to do.

", the Bush Administration "collapsing?" America will be lucky to survive its present "economic situation" for another 10-15 years? You've also got to be kidding me if you expect me to believe China is building all of these refineries and cities. The Chinese economy will keep growing, then level off at some point, simply because resources are limited"


Actually i was referring to federal reserve chairman stated before he left office, that America cannot sustain deficit spending any longer. It must begin to balance its budget or suffer the consequences. You do understand financial stements, right?

China is building more refinieries than any other nation on earth. It is also signing exclusive and equity contracts with 22 oil producing nations.
Read more, talk less.






"America has a population of around 300 million, with about on average 1 million people with a net worth of $1 million dollars or more. China has a population of over a billion, with about 375,000 people with an equivalent net worth of $1 million or more. Big difference in how the wealth is spread."

Apples and Oranges, money is relative to the locale. the cost of living in China is very low, middle class in China live better than middle class in USA. Nobody here crys about not having time to spend with family.






"As for the American economy, it has proven itself to be very formidable. The Chinese economy has had no such threat to test it. And by the way, you forgot one BIG source of strength of the Chinese economy: FOREIGN INVESTMENT. If the U.S. economy ever fails, how the heck is the economy its locked into, the Chinese economy, going to survive? Your statement that "America will be lucky to survive its present economic situation in the next 10-15 years" doesn't even make sense"

you dont know your history. China has had many cultural and economic reforms. China and Europe have more trade than the CHina-USA, you need to recheck your statistics. China is no more locked into the USA than the USA is locked into Mexico.
If America continues the deficit spending of the Bush Adminstration, it cannot sustain itself another 10 years. i stand by that statement. Maybe you dont understand how economics works, but CHina is supporting the USA, not the other way around.






"The Bush Administration is probably one of the few decent administrations we've had in recent years"

Yes, its great to bomb people and invade nations without thinking it though, isnt it....USA is spending almost 1 billion a day in Iraq, with nothing to show for it but dead iraqis and americans.






"So anyhow, essentially in your view, come 2020, America will collapse (which would collapse the Chinese economy), with its source of strength and wealth cut out from under it, plus the fact the world can't supply enough raw materials, will magically continue to grow You my friend are nothing but an America-hating, Chinese fan-boy"

no, i said America will be lucky to survive the next 15 years. No nation on earth can survive the debt load this Admininstration has placed on its citizens.
And you still confuse who supports who; china buys USA debt, if china ever stops, the USA economy collapses, end of story.

I trade raw materials...how much do you want..? i can buy millions of tons of any product from almost any country on earth. As prices move up, deposits come back into production. Supply and Demand.

I love america. I hate what the Bush Family has done to it. Take off your blinders and travel the world. See the truths for yourself instead of talk show hosts telling you how to think.

many of you say that the Chinese Economy will surpass the US economy in 10 15 years....what do you mean by that ......The US GDP per capita is approx 7 times than that of China .....u want to mean that it will surpass the 7 times gap in a matter of 10-15 years?

Or you want to say that the Chinese GDP will surpass the US one in 10 -15 years ...if you speak about GDP then it may be possible for China under today's circumstances....but dont forget that China has a very big population to support under this big GDP ...so in the next 100 years China is not going to Surpass America...whatever be its GDP its GDP per capita will remain lower than Russia for years to come ...forget USA

Originally posted by toolman

you dont know your history. China has had many cultural and economic reforms. China and Europe have more trade than the CHina-USA, you need to recheck your statistics. China is no more locked into the USA than the USA is locked into Mexico.
If America continues the deficit spending of the Bush Adminstration, it cannot sustain itself another 10 years. i stand by that statement. Maybe you dont understand how economics works, but CHina is supporting the USA, not the other way around.

Well why don't you present some statistics rather than going off half cocked ? The US is very important to the CHinese economy, if their relationship ceased over night, both vountries and the world would go into a deep depression. They are locked together.
Asfor Europe the US GDP is greater than the EU as well as PPP ( of course ) inverstment spending is double the EU's and unemployment is half of what teh EU has. The EU is a wanna be stillborn superpower. To say teh EU is more important to CHina than America is quite frankly wrong.

And you still confuse who supports who; china buys USA debt, if china ever stops, the USA economy collapses, end of story.

As has been said, teh 2 economies are inextricably linked. THey would both suffer. You think the communists would survive if the Chinese economy went into a depression due to a US collapse in the next 15 years. Do you think that poeple would accept their lot with no prospects, I think not.
As they say, teh bigger they are teh harder they fall.

I love america. I hate what the Bush Family has done to it. Take off your blinders and travel the world. See the truths for yourself instead of talk show hosts telling you how to think.

LOL, as a person who has travelled the world extensively, I wouldn't say your opinions are right.

The bilateral trade volume between China and the European Union amounted to 157.79 billion US dollars in the first three quarters, up 23.3 percent over the same period last year, statistics from the General Administration of Customs showed.

The EU remains China's biggest trade parter. The United States ranks the second place, with Sino-US trade volume reaching 153.54 billion US dollars during the period, a rise of 25.6 percent.

Japan remains China's third biggest trade partner with a trade volume of 134.55 billion US dollars, an increase of 10.5 percent.

The trade volumes of Hong Kong and the Asean Free Trade Area (AFTA) with the Chinese mainland came to 94.69 billion US dollars and 94.54 billion US dollars, respectively, in the first nine months of the year.




USA trade with CHina slipped to second place, and will continue to slip each year, while China's trade with the rest of the world will increase. This is due to several factors, but the refusal of the White House to promote trade with China, and the outreach to china from the rest of the world continues.

Yes, the bigger they are, the harder they fall. The Bush white house is selling America a house of cards that will collapse unless the direction changes quickly.


"LOL, as a person who has travelled the world extensively, I wouldn't say your opinions are right"

you are wrong about USA being more important to China than the EU, as per trade data above, maybe you need to travel a bit more..?


Trends are what we are discussing. The trend for the USA is a slow downward spiral, while China is looking at 10% average growth per year the next 12-15 years.
WHy? because China welcomes Business. They roll out the red carpet for serious business from germany, japan, brazil, england, france, sweden, finland, everyone.

I meet business people from all over the world here, most with the support of their governments, except for the USA. We send dog and pony shows, little to no support for serious business outreach.
this is a serious mistake, one that will cost America dearly as time passes, and international trade truly engages itself.

Originally posted by toolman
you are wrong about USA being more important to China than the EU, as per trade data above, maybe you need to travel a bit more..?

Well a few billion dollars. Lets not forget teh EU's economy isn't exactly booming. Also you should be comparing the trade surplusses China has with teh various nations not just overall trade.

Trends are what we are discussing. The trend for the USA is a slow downward spiral, while China is looking at 10% average growth per year the next 12-15 years.

And the EU ? America is ahead of them in every important category.

I meet business people from all over the world here, most with the support of their governments, except for the USA. We send dog and pony shows, little to no support for serious business outreach.

The governemnt doesn't have to, US corporations are wuite capable of doing it themselves. Just look at Walmart paying for CHina's legal defence when tehy were brought up on anti-dumping charges.

As far as I have researched, the United States has the best medical facilities and doctors, but the system is screwy. If you can provide a reliable source that shows that Australia's health care is in fact better, than I will stand corrected.

toolman, exactly what has the Bush Administration done to the United States to cause it to "collapse" in fifteen years? You can't really be serious, I hope. And no, contrary to popular thought, the U.S. economy is not dependent on China, the Chinese economy is dependent on the U.S. If the U.S. pulled out of China, it would cripple the Chinese economy and have severe repercussions for the U.S. economy, but the more powerful economy (the U.S.) is what would survive. It isn't as simple as "buying debt = U.S. economy lives, stop buying debt = U.S. economy dies."

But neither will ever happen because both countries are interlocked economically. And your statement that the U.S. just "invaded" another country based on the premise of nothing is flat-out wrong. I've said it a couple of times before, I'll say it again, the U.S. did not invade Iraq solely on the premise of WMDs. That was something the media took and twisted out of proportion (and you accuse me of listening to talk show hosts?). There were seven reasons the U.S. invaded Iraq, which were presented to the UN by Colin Powell, number one of which, Saddam broke the cease-fire, so the U.S. had every right by law to blow him to smithereens, really.

Bush, on the contrary, is doing what Clinton should have done years ago, which was stop the terrorists before they grew in power, but he never did. It is his fault in a sense that 9/11 even happened. Had he went after the terrorists after the WTC bombings in 1992, they probably could have squelched the situation before it ever gained momentum.

You seem to think that the U.S. cannot afford this war in Iraq right now, I don't know why you think that. The economy is supporting it fine, it will support it fine if they decide to invade iran as well; the problem with Iran is manpower (which again, thanx to Clinton, was lowered too far).

China and Russia will never go to war with eachother. Just watch and see.

Russia has scientists in Iran that will get killed and China owns lots of oil in Iran. These two countries support Iran and when America attacks China and Russia won't be attacking eachother.

China and India are now allies too. They are looking for ways to defeat US imperialism.

In big wars like the one coming up neighbouring countries don't war with one another unless one of them is under total US control.

Sorry but China and Russia going to war isn't going to happen as they have a common enemy. When countries have a common enemy threatening them they realize the importance of sticking together. Russia and China are smart enough to know that a war between them is totally uncalled for. They know they have no reasons to fight eachother. However China/Russia against the US now that is an alliance they know that they need in order to defeat the US. Along with many other countries helping them out.

Haven't you noticed that the world hates the US now?

[edit on 9-6-2006 by Crazy_Mr_Crowley]

=.=...........i thought this thread is about China vs Russia

guess another China vs USA thread has been created.....(just like the previous china vs taiwan thread)

i guess ppl just like that better....

[edit on 9-6-2006 by warset]

Originally posted by Crazy_Mr_Crowley
China and India are now allies too. They are looking for ways to defeat US imperialism.

Gee that must be why, India is developing strategic nuclear weapon systems to directly counter CHina Lets be realistic here.

In big wars like the one coming up neighbouring countries don't war with one another unless one of them is under total US control.

They know they have no reasons to fight eachother. However China/Russia against the US now that is an alliance they know that they need in order to defeat the US. Along with many other countries helping them out.

LOL, right. You're talking complete BS. China and Russia aren't going to align to attack the US, oh wait what about India as well, hahaha. You obviously know little about geopolitics.

Haven't you noticed that the world hates the US now?

Another funny comment. Plenty of #ries dislike each other, it's not just the world against the US, such comments are ridiculous.

Someone needs to do some reading, at least a little.

It is utterly hilarious how some of you are all excited about this absurd and entirely hypothetical situation, which, and this is the key here, will never happen (at least in the near future). Here you are with all your references, statistics and CNN articles demonstrating military mobility, oil barrels and whatnot. I'll let you in on a little secret - it does not matter.

China invade Russia...and WIN?

bwahahahahahahahahahaha, well that just made my day.

Russia's nuclear policy is pretty straightforward; anyone attacks us and we nuke them. Russia will nuke China into tomorrow and oblivion. China stands NO CHANCE against Russia. Period. There is no need to go into intense patriotic debates and that BS. China cannot stop a Russian nuke, and when Russia aims a few dozen at China the “war” (actually more like a comedy) will have already ended.

Originally posted by The Crow
Russia's nuclear policy is pretty straightforward; anyone attacks us and we nuke them. Russia will nuke China into tomorrow and oblivion. China stands NO CHANCE against Russia. Period. There is no need to go into intense patriotic debates and that BS. China cannot stop a Russian nuke, and when Russia aims a few dozen at China the “war” (actually more like a comedy) will have already ended.

LOL, well I guess Russia wouldn't mind losng most of her cities either. China is more than capable of wiping out most of Russia's cities with her missiles as well. Russia wouldn't go nuclear to stop an invasion of Siberia, that's absurd.

Then whole thread is absurd, as is you answer.

"toolman, exactly what has the Bush Administration done to the United States to cause it to "collapse" in fifteen years? You can't really be serious, I hope. And no, contrary to popular thought, the U.S. economy is not dependent on China, the Chinese economy is dependent on the U.S. If the U.S. pulled out of China, it would cripple the Chinese economy and have severe repercussions for the U.S. economy, but the more powerful economy (the U.S.) is what would survive. It isn't as simple as "buying debt = U.S. economy lives, stop buying debt = U.S. economy dies."


America Must sell 2 Billion dollars of debt every day. This means the Bush adminstration is borrowing 2 billion each and every day, which is creating unsustainable burdens on the American Economy , which it has never faced before.
This debt now stands at roughly 7 trillion dollars, Owned by China, Japan, indonesia, Russia, and the EU. The US pays interest on that Debt, which amounts to hundreds of billions each year. this will increase annually

President Clinton left a 3 trillion dollar surplus. Bush has created a 7 trillion dollar deficit.

At some point between now and the next 12-15 years, that debt load will create a mass exodus out of US denominated currencies into Stronger ones. When that occurs, the US economy collapses.


Why do you think the world traders are cutting exposure to USA ? Petroleum used to be sold in Petrodollars, a reference to USD settlement of Oil contracts that were required to be in US Dollars. That is no longer the case; russia, iran, china, and other nations are increasingly settling in euro and other currencies.
Gold has doubled in 3 years..? this is incredible move to hard assets. This is usually a precurser of high inflation and fiat ( runaway) currency.
I work with commodity traders, currency traders, and international Bankers. They are not yet pulling resources from the USA, but are certainly planning if things do not change.


The USA is dependant on China, they can never pull out, that is my point. China holds almost all the cards now, in 10 years they will hold all of them.


This if course can be avoided by responsible fiscal management by the Bush administration, but there is clear lack of any restraint or sound policy.
You are literally watching the seeds of a nations financial demise being planted.


dont be frightened, Take control; pay off all your debts, purchase hard assets, place some money in foreign currencies. Hard assets will be king.

Originally posted by The Crow
Russia's nuclear policy is pretty straightforward; anyone attacks us and we nuke them. Russia will nuke China into tomorrow and oblivion. China stands NO CHANCE against Russia. Period. There is no need to go into intense patriotic debates and that BS. China cannot stop a Russian nuke, and when Russia aims a few dozen at China the “war” (actually more like a comedy) will have already ended.

China has about the same nuclear policy as Russia
If Russia goes nuclear, China will go nuclear just the same, and Russia cannot stop a Chinese nuke neither
So what's your point?


but a war with Russia is quite absurd and entirely hypothetical, it's just like saying US want's to fight EU
people forget what does the Shanghai Cooperation Organization stand for?

[edit on 10-6-2006 by warset]