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Pence? Ivanka? Don Jr.? What Endgame?

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posted on Oct, 8 2019 @ 09:55 PM
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So, I'm something of a lurker here, but recently was encouraged by a another member to actually post, as they found me to be reasonable, logical and fair.

So..here I am. Ready for the punishment that only the Mud Pit can confer.

Impeachment. It's all anyone can talk about, regardless of the source. Heres my batch of opinions based on history, knowledge of human nature, and socioeconomic trends.

The endgame is what matters now. Yes, Trump wants to win (he always wants to, right?) But, he's actually messed up here. Look, we know he is neither a constitutional scholar, nor is he a politician. I believe that Trump didnt know/understand that his conversation with Ukraine, which contained obvious implications of tit-for-tattery and, yes...pressure to perform for DJT, was criminal. This is just how Trump works; how he gets stuff done. I can see him doing the same to a contractor or a lawyer, right? His ignorance of laws are not a defense that is going to work. We know this. He is therefore on borrowed time. The real issue is what happens after.

Things to consider:
1. Trump will resign ONLY if he is afforded immunity from prosecution regarding the current matters AND tax fraud. Please dont suggest that he is not in legal jeopardy...that it is all a hoax, because that (by virtue of filings and investigation) is simply not true. Trump *IS* in serious trouble, regardless of what we may think of it.

2. Mitch McConnell is the consummate, the ultimate insider and establishment politician. He has got to hate dealing with questions about Trump, to say nothing of his inability to govern effectively EVERY DAY.

3. Mike Pence clearly has no spine and is no Donald Trump.

End Game. What to watch for:
1. If Mitch McConnell (after the house is done and inevitably impeaches DJT) calls for a BLIND VOTE on the matter, it can ONLY mean that there are enough votes to remove Trump and Pence is in Mitch's pocket. Pence MIGHT pardon Trump, but thatll depend on polling and McConnell.

2. Trump might demand Pence resign or force him to (Trumps people are wiley...they GOTTA have something on Pence by now.) If so, this will be because
a) Trump wisely does not trust MM or MP
b) HE, Trump wants to replace Pence with a more trustworthy entity..perhaps Ivanka, Don Jr or Jim Jefords. Someone who will certainly pardon him.

Again, objectively... Trump has made an error which will be fatal to his presidency. Regardless of intent, knowledge or legal practice, he has messed up. He WILL be impeached in house, and the senate will have a trial. These things are going to happen.

The only questions are:
1. Can MM be trusted to protect Trump? No he cannot. He, IMO would prefer Pence or anyone that would make his own job easier.

2. Is Trump careful enough to see that Pence is a liability?


Discuss!




posted on Oct, 8 2019 @ 10:11 PM
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At this point it could go either way. Moscow Mitch might choose to go all in and protect Trump, and keep using him as the lightning rod everyone attacks so him and his cronies can continue working their black magic behind the scenes..

Or he could use the opportunity to rid himself and the Republican party of (what will be in the long run) the stain of the Trump presidency. What you want to watch for is a couple-three prominent Republicans turning on Trump. Most are too scared of losing that solid 30% of his base to step out of line right now. But as soon as a few people do it, more will pile out behind them. And then 6 months to a year from now they'll all claim they never supported him. By that time Trump will be running a news network out of the top floor of his hotel in Moscow.

Who will take his place if he's removed? Pence may be implicated in all this as well, so it's too early to tell. Maybe Mitt Romney. One thing I'm sure of though, is that there is no way in hell Nancy Pelosi will be allowed to take over the presidency.

One thing to remember, you can't trust Mitch McConnell. He's the biggest snake that ever lived. He'll support Trump right up until the point he doesn't.


+2 more 
posted on Oct, 8 2019 @ 10:15 PM
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a reply to: SparkyMcBurny



This is all "Political Theater"

Trump is not getting impeached. This is all for 2020 election narrative. 100% bad press for a year before election day.

We shall have a dozen more "whistleblower" complaints. A bunch of media hoopla, and never a vote to impeach will be taken until after the election if ever.



posted on Oct, 8 2019 @ 10:27 PM
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a reply to: SparkyMcBurny

Well Sparky, I see a lot of holes in your argument.



1. Trump will resign ONLY if he is afforded immunity from prosecution regarding the current matters AND tax fraud. Please dont suggest that he is not in legal jeopardy...that it is all a hoax, because that (by virtue of filings and investigation) is simply not true. Trump *IS* in serious trouble, regardless of what we may think of it.


Tax fraud?
I am assuming you have some evidence that the IRS has never found in the 40-50 years that Trump has been doing business?

Also immunity from prosecution over what current matters?
The Ukraine call?

The transcript was released and shows nothing in it, history and recent news stories have proved that phone calls and meetings between US presidents/candidates and other world leaders have always had a bit of “Rub my back and I’ll rub yours”
Obama and Putin’s PM
John Kerry and un-named world leaders
Bill Clinton and Tony Blair...just to name a few
But none of that happened.




2. Mitch McConnell is the consummate, the ultimate insider and establishment politician. He has got to hate dealing with questions about Trump, to say nothing of his inability to govern effectively EVERY DAY.


If it wasn’t for the Democrats 3 years running butt hurt feelings, MM wouldn’t have to answer questions about Trump or be unable to govern effectively.
Thank the Democrats for that.




3. Mike Pence clearly has no spine and is no Donald Trump.


Don’t underestimate Pence, he is doing exactly what he was brought on to be.....insurance for the Democrats butt hurt feelings I mentioned above.
But if the Dems are able to catch a unicorn and find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow and oust Trump, Pence will be another nightmare for them.


edit on 8-10-2019 by RazorV66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2019 @ 11:20 PM
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a reply to: RazorV66

I have an odd sense of humor so I got a kick out of Trump promising that he would release his tax returns when he was done being audited.

I once worked for Phillips Petroleum.

In a corner wing of the headquarters there is a satellite office of the IRS.

Phillips (now Conoco-Phillips) is currently being audited.

They will be audited 24/7.... forever.

They have been under audit since I think 1974.

Because they are so big and there are so many transactions, the IRS just gets a satellite office and audits in realtime forever.

I'm assuming Trump's business is the same, since he has been under audit since 9 years before he became President.

He will always be under audit.

For the people who think the guy is somehow evading taxes or defrauding the IRS, just...

LMFAO.

The IRS signs off on what he does every. single. day.

So if it's good enough for the IRS, I'm going to assume that he isn't breaking any laws.

The Dem's desperate search for him to release his tax returns is just another part of them attempting to find something and sensationalize it.

All for possible political points and nothing more.



edit on 8-10-2019 by Lumenari because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2019 @ 11:37 PM
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originally posted by: RazorV66
a reply to: SparkyMcBurny

Well Sparky, I see a lot of holes in your argument.



1. Trump will resign ONLY if he is afforded immunity from prosecution regarding the current matters AND tax fraud. Please dont suggest that he is not in legal jeopardy...that it is all a hoax, because that (by virtue of filings and investigation) is simply not true. Trump *IS* in serious trouble, regardless of what we may think of it.


Tax fraud?
I am assuming you have some evidence that the IRS has never found in the 40-50 years that Trump has been doing business?

Also immunity from prosecution over what current matters?
The Ukraine call?

The transcript was released and shows nothing in it, history and recent news stories have proved that phone calls and meetings between US presidents/candidates and other world leaders have always had a bit of “Rub my back and I’ll rub yours”
Obama and Putin’s PM
John Kerry and un-named world leaders
Bill Clinton and Tony Blair...just to name a few
But none of that happened.




2. Mitch McConnell is the consummate, the ultimate insider and establishment politician. He has got to hate dealing with questions about Trump, to say nothing of his inability to govern effectively EVERY DAY.


If it wasn’t for the Democrats 3 years running butt hurt feelings, MM wouldn’t have to answer questions about Trump or be unable to govern effectively.
Thank the Democrats for that.




3. Mike Pence clearly has no spine and is no Donald Trump.


Don’t underestimate Pence, he is doing exactly what he was brought on to be.....insurance for the Democrats butt hurt feelings I mentioned above.
But if the Dems are able to catch a unicorn and find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow and oust Trump, Pence will be another nightmare for them.



Fair enough. But let's suppose for a minute that he's facing a trial in the senate.

I think we can agree that if a secret vote is called for, it's because MM is moving against Trump. I just hope Trump is smart enough to recognize it and remove Pence from the board.



posted on Oct, 8 2019 @ 11:51 PM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: SparkyMcBurny



This is all "Political Theater"

Trump is not getting impeached. This is all for 2020 election narrative. 100% bad press for a year before election day.

We shall have a dozen more "whistleblower" complaints. A bunch of media hoopla, and never a vote to impeach will be taken until after the election if ever.




When you say "impeached" do you mean removed from office? I ask because Trump *will* be impeached in the House of Representatives; that's fait accompli.

You may be right about it all being theater, but I'm not so sure. If you look at McConnell's career and his downright chilling ability to get what HE wants, if he has the means to install someone he can manipulate or intimidate in the Oval office.... Mitch *WILL* do it.

What then?



posted on Oct, 8 2019 @ 11:52 PM
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a reply to: SparkyMcBurny



I just hope Trump is smart enough to recognize it and remove Pence from the board.


But as you suggest above, he can only do that by shaming him or blackmailing him. An outright public attack would be recognized by the Republicans for what it was and would not back him in that move. At least i don't think they would.



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 05:07 AM
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originally posted by: SparkyMcBurny

Things to consider:
1. Trump will resign ONLY if

2. Is Trump careful enough to see that Pence is a liability?

Discuss!



1 : Hell freezes over

2 : Bet your boots he is.

I know your on the other side of the fence a bit to me but still lovin the way you go about it.

On a side note, glad you came out of that shell. Keep it up.

edit on 9-10-2019 by CthruU because: 1



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 05:21 AM
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1. He won’t.
2. Of course.

All these clown shows On msm, what are really distracting us from, that’s my question.



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 05:22 AM
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a reply to: SparkyMcBurny

We have the transcript. Quote what in the transcript is illegal and source why.



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 05:24 AM
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a reply to: SparkyMcBurny

Are you sure about that? The problem with a formal impeachment is that it will give Republicans extra subpoena powers. The Democrats want to prevent that at all costs, which is why we have what we have, an informal investigation.



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 07:30 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04


We have the transcript.


Wasn't it headed as a memo though?

I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not it is indeed the full transcript. And with it being headed as a memo, it's kind of hard to definitively say it is a full transcript.



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 08:10 AM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: OccamsRazor04


We have the transcript.


Wasn't it headed as a memo though?

I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not it is indeed the full transcript. And with it being headed as a memo, it's kind of hard to definitively say it is a full transcript.


LOL so lets impeach him LOL.




posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: putnam6


LOL so lets impeach him LOL.


That's not what I'm eluding to.

Impeachment should only be done if there are enough facts to warrant it under the guidelines.'

Just merely pointing something out.



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 08:25 AM
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It is now being reported that Ukraine reopened the investigation of Biden business dealings long before Trump made the phone call.
How does this affect the narrative?



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 08:45 AM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: putnam6


LOL so lets impeach him LOL.


That's not what I'm eluding to.

Impeachment should only be done if there are enough facts to warrant it under the guidelines.'

Just merely pointing something out.


So we are on a fact-finding mission?

Is it gonna be like the Russian collusion fact-finding mission or Judge Kavanaugh fact-finding mission, cause they all smell the same, LOL I the M.O for the left is always the same I expect the new whistleblower in the Ukraine to be Catherine Blasey Ford.



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 08:52 AM
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originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: putnam6


LOL so lets impeach him LOL.


That's not what I'm eluding to.

Impeachment should only be done if there are enough facts to warrant it under the guidelines.'

Just merely pointing something out.


So we are on a fact-finding mission?

Is it gonna be like the Russian collusion fact-finding mission or Judge Kavanaugh fact-finding mission, cause they all smell the same, LOL I the M.O for the left is always the same I expect the new whistleblower in the Ukraine to be Catherine Blasey Ford.


I'm always about finding the facts. I believe I was the first member to post a thread looking into Hunter's foreign dealings (my focus at the time was his involvement in Chinese companies).

At this point my only bias is skepticism of everyone in government. If you held a gun to my head right now, I'd say I have a hair more faith in some on the right... But I'm still going to call it how I see it.

So yes, if someone says that it was a full unedited transcript, I'll ask the question do we know that for sure, because context points to it's probably not.



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 09:16 AM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: putnam6


LOL so lets impeach him LOL.


That's not what I'm eluding to.

Impeachment should only be done if there are enough facts to warrant it under the guidelines.'

Just merely pointing something out.



So we are on a fact-finding mission?

Is it gonna be like the Russian collusion fact-finding mission or Judge Kavanaugh fact-finding mission, cause they all smell the same, LOL I the M.O for the left is always the same I expect the new whistleblower in the Ukraine to be Catherine Blasey Ford.


I'm always about finding the facts. I believe I was the first member to post a thread looking into Hunter's foreign dealings (my focus at the time was his involvement in Chinese companies).

At this point my only bias is skepticism of everyone in government. If you held a gun to my head right now, I'd say I have a hair more faith in some on the right... But I'm still going to call it how I see it.

So yes, if someone says that it was a full unedited transcript, I'll ask the question do we know that for sure, because context points to it's probably not.


So we are going to have a full inquiry into impeachment over this transcript a transcript that the even the Ukrainians say they weren't coerced. We re going to throw away all the time that the congress should be doing real work on ANOTHER fact-finding mission. Its politically motivated just like Clintons was politically motivated and they both stink of partisan politics. Its a joke if its impeachable then vote, it should be obvious and undeniable.



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: putnam6

You're putting implications in my mouth.

I simply corrected someone's statement and you're making me out to be dog whistling for impeachment.



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