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A little clarification requested.

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posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 12:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: Gorgonite

For a perfect call, the Trump administration sure isn't treating it like one.


Quote from the transcript of President Trump and the Ukrainian president's conversation where President Trump broke a law. Show me the money bud.




posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: Gorgonite

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Gorgonite

you seem to have not read the transcript but believe what some other outlet wants you to believe. I suggest reading the transript in it's entirety, then come back and see if what you stated, it what really happened.

With the transcript out, the whistle blower stuff isn't anything but crying. We know EXACTLY what was said.

it was not something I would have wanted Trump to say or ask for, but he did. I'd have rather had Barr go looking for the facts and Trump not bothering with that investigation. The one that has been going for a while now. The one John Durham is involved in. Perhaps you have heard of it?


I have read the transcript. Multiple times. I see wrongdoing there. What facts do you have that show otherwise. What other president has ever acted in this manner? What law allows this? etc? That is what I am looking for.

But the transcript is no longer the only piece of evidence supporting wrongdoing. Now there are multiple whistleblowers, text messages between Trump appointees, etc.

Here is the transcript:

LINK

Relevant piece:



President Zelenskyy: It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I’m very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps, specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike… I guess you have one of your wealthy people… The server, they say Ukraine has it


The Texts

LINK



Seriously?

You would go in front of a court and try to argue that President Trump attempted to withhold aid to Ukraine in an attempt to get info on a "political opponent " and this is what you would present as evidence?
I would like you to do us a favor though


And in that same courtroom you would also have the Ukrainian President as a witness (you know, the guy on the other line) stating that the president did NOT pressure him or hold funds for this reason...AS HE ALREADY STATED.

On top of all this you think it's okay for Pelosi and team to attempt to side step an official vote on an impeachment inquiry? That's okay?

You do know that the Republicans hold the Senate right? And I'm sure you are also aware that it takes a 2/3 Senate vote to impeach the President? Do you really think they will get that 2/3 Senate vote after trying to side-step an official house vote? Yeah not in your wildest dreams.

All of you can just kiss your impeachment fantasy goodbye.



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: toolgal462

I just want those guilty of crimes made to pay
for them.


The transcript has been released. Please quote from the transcript where President Trump broke a law?


I believe the 3 of us are all on the same page. He didn't commit any crime.



posted on Oct, 9 2019 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: toolgal462

originally posted by: Alien Abduct

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: toolgal462

I just want those guilty of crimes made to pay
for them.


The transcript has been released. Please quote from the transcript where President Trump broke a law?


I believe the 3 of us are all on the same page. He didn't commit any crime.


Ah, I see. Carry on comrade.



posted on Oct, 10 2019 @ 11:29 AM
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Those parties who are making the whistle blowing claims are acting out their personal political bias, not presenting factual claims. HUNTER biden is not trumps political opponent, I find it strange it's NOT ok for trump to discuss any investigation of his political opponents son, but it's NOT a problem for joe bidens som to have been on this board, potentially influencing his father so ability to use his public office in the best interest of the American people.

The same parties claiming this phone call as cause for trumps removal are the same parties who gave Russiagate, which itself is a story of curruption by CIA FBI and political actors in the US government attempting to control the outcome of the 2016 election, the faith in their ability to be nonpartisan is lost on many who are watching the process. I personally don't like trumps demeanor and would have preferred someone who behaved with the proper decorum expected of the Oval Office. However watching how the press and his political opponents have behaved and tossed aside standards to keep party first, it's hard not to support the president from such partisan actors.

The Ukraine president openly stated he did not feel pressured, the quid pro quo at BEST is inferred, nothing is explicitly stated. There's 0 precedent to impeach a sitting president from this type of conversation. Those who don't agree with impeachment view this as more political attacks from a currupt party, inside government actors and news networks to influence public opinion.

What's again telling this is entirely a hyperbolic political hit job, the entirety of those who are calling for impeachment are quiet or supportive of Bidens potential curruption at play in the Ukraine. How can you watch biden brag about withholding 1 billion$ to influence the Ukrainians, when they believed it to be a done deal through Obama? Is that not EXACTLY what you are accusing trump of? Clear Bidens name, support the investigation of Hunter Bidens involvement in the Ukraine. Instead we have the talking heads discount and brush that aside as somehow a non-issue.

It is a perfect issue to highlight the cognitive dissonance taking place here, if trump potentially influenced Ukraine policy using his public position, biden is at least equally deserving of being further looked into.


a reply to: Gorgonite



posted on Oct, 11 2019 @ 01:38 AM
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a reply to: Gorgonite

Just a quick aside here, I also notice the facts are not in Trump's favor, so as a Republican I would be worried about where you are putting your faith... what do you think is going to happen when everything that Trump is hiding from investigators comes out?

Do you think it won't? The House has direct constitutional authority over the Presidency in an impeachment process. This is not a criminal court. In the worst-case scenario for Democrats, they have to hold a vote first.

It seems to me as if many of you know Trump is guilty, and the next step you will take is to smear investigators with whatever you can find. Dirty tactics. I'm not sure I agree with that.
edit on 11amFri, 11 Oct 2019 01:39:39 -0500kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

edit on 11amFri, 11 Oct 2019 01:40:15 -0500kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 11 2019 @ 05:33 AM
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a reply to: Gorgonite

First of all, if you're looking for what factual evidence can still be found on ATS, the Mud Pit is not the place for it. This is a forum where blatant partisanship is allowed. Yes, I am aware of the irony.

You said though that you're interested in facts, so I'm willing to give it a shot here although I'm trying to make it a policy not to interact in the Pit ... while "high crimes and misdemeanors" doesn't necessarily require actual criminal acts ... what law/laws/regulations do you consider Mr. Trump transgressed in his actions regarding Ukraine?

A quid pro quo (which is obvious) is not necessarily illegal. Yes, the House can deliver Articles of Impeachment with a simple majority vote, but that could easily be shown to be based on POLITICAL motives rather than factual ones.

What did Trump do that is illegal, immoral, unethical, harmful to the US or the Constitution, etc. What merits impeachment in this case more than other past cases where the President's illegal activities were blatant?

Thanks for your response.



posted on Oct, 11 2019 @ 05:36 AM
link   
a reply to: Gorgonite

First of all, if you're looking for what factual evidence can still be found on ATS, the Mud Pit is not the place for it. This is a forum where blatant partisanship is allowed. Yes, I am aware of the irony.

You said though that you're interested in facts, so I'm willing to give it a shot here although I'm trying to make it a policy not to interact in the Pit ... while "high crimes and misdemeanors" doesn't necessarily require actual criminal acts ... what law/laws/regulations do you consider Mr. Trump transgressed in his actions regarding Ukraine?

A quid pro quo (which is obvious) is not necessarily illegal. Yes, the House can deliver Articles of Impeachment with a simple majority vote, but that could easily be shown to be based on POLITICAL motives rather than factual ones.

What did Trump do that is illegal, immoral, unethical, harmful to the US or the Constitution, etc. What merits impeachment in this case more than other past cases where the President's illegal activities were blatant?

Thanks for your response.



posted on Oct, 11 2019 @ 10:40 PM
link   



a reply to: Gorgonite

I have read the transcript. Multiple times. I see wrongdoing there. What facts do you have that show otherwise. What other president has ever acted in this manner? What law allows this? etc? That is what I am looking for.

But the transcript is no longer the only piece of evidence supporting wrongdoing. Now there are multiple whistleblowers, text messages between Trump appointees, etc.

Here is the transcript:

LINK

Relevant piece:



President Zelenskyy: It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I’m very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps, specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike… I guess you have one of your wealthy people… The server, they say Ukraine has it


The Texts

LINK



You may want to try reading the transcript again without being biased. You see wrong doing because Trump said "I would like you to do us a favor though..." but let's see how that part of the conversation ended:

" There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, the whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance , but they say a lot of it started in Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible."


1st, stop with the media spin that Trump is using his power to have a political opponent investigated. NO, Trump is asking Ukraine to assist with an active investigation into the origins of the 2016 election debacle.

2nd, "Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible." how can you possibly read that and think Trump is threatening anything? You don't go around threatening people like "excuse me, it would be nice if you could possibly maybe don't do this. If that's ok?"

3rd The so-called whistle blowers are no longer important. Nobody is denying the call took place, and in fact, the transcript has been released. We don't need whistle blowers to give their interpretation of the conversation.

4th You realize the democrats had 3 years to investigate the 2016 election? They could not find any proof of wrong doing, and now it's the Republicans turn to investigate. After all, the election is important. i think everyone would like to know what REALLY went on. I don't think it's unreasonable for both sides to have their own investigation. You mention that there is no proof Biden did anything? Well, why would they release proof if the investigation isn't over yet, and isn't the point of an investigation to FIND proof? There is more than enough probable cause to start an investigation (he literally confessed on video).

5th To say there are text messages stating there was a quid pro quo is laughable. There was one person sending a text saying Trump is using the aid for leverage and that's wrong... Then you have the other person in the conversation responding that, that is not what is happening at all. Anyone with your phone number can send a text to you and say "OMG I can't believe you sexually assaulted me. " Would that make you guilty?



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