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The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

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posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 01:14 AM
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quote by Thatsjustwierd
o you even know how it all started? The ATF had arrest and search warrants for David, his people, and compound and were delivering them. Why? Because of the illegal weapons and explosives they had. Now if they had just cooperated and obeyed the law, what do you think would have happened?


1. Was it ever proved if they indeed had illeagal weapons and explosives?
2. Why didn't the ATF just wait for groups of the BranchDividians to come into Town to make arrests? Weaken there numbers first then sieze the compound at least try to arrest some of there leaders before a assault on there compound.
The BranchDividians believed that the end of the world was niegh, and they were preparing for it. To invade the compound IMHO was plain foolishness. However, this Was a Group, but I don't think they were ingaged in Arm Manuvers and Combat Against the Government untill the Government came for them, wearing full body Armor with assault rifles..ect..ect And BTW there feelings on the end of the world thing was correct.
Another thing, I would like to see a link about any Tazer deaths in the USA or anywhere else in the world before 2000/2001Or any "Non-Lethal" weapon systems deaths before 2000/2001. I can't provide a link right now but I believe total deaths due to Tazers in the USA since 2001 are 130 or more. If anyone can find out this info and post it here it would be cool.



Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?”




"If the federal forces learned anything from WACO it was to install more reliable suppressors on their automatic weapons and don't use flash grenades that leave shell casings after the fire."


Sorry if the Tazer talk on this thread bothers some people, but Titor mentioned "Non Leathal" weapons systems not me.

And BTW Just because Roth Joint Sees the USA the way John Titor described it would be doesn't mean he Wants a Civil War here, and personally you have to be a little off to accuse someone of that. It easy for me to see what side you would be on If/When this does happen.




posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by Roth Joint

31. Slowly, carefully, in a military setting, start sending people through time using little sweeties
32. And so forth...

That puts us at least at 2020 or further down the line, don't ya think??


I like your timeline, though I would say there is a huge time divergence between now and 2020, since you are using Titors time frame


The LHC is scheduled to start operation either this coming year or 2007... I would say it will be in full operation by 2008. Then afterwards will be producing large amount of information of about 15 to 25 Petabytes per year or more through a worldwide infrastructure..... "LHC Computer Grid"
There will be a security group watching this grid very closely, so information may be tough to get.
Though, Will be exciting times .........



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
There were WACO-type taser deaths starting out as isolated, monthly cases as covered by the media in 2004 and are growing worse into the civil war exactly as Titor "predicted" it.

lmao
1. "Waco-type taser deaths"?

Tanks, guns, fire > taser

No, WACO-type taser deaths as in:


WACO-type event
1) People were dying a cruel and unnecessary death by the hand of their own officers of the law while their deaths should have been avoided and while their voices and pleas haven't been listened to. - This is comparable to all the taser deaths that should and could have been avoided.

2) The law enforcement officers responsible for their deaths were cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death." - Reviewing all these taser death cases, not a single officer of the law has been prosecuted for "wrongful death." Not even one!

3) Authorities spreading disinformation regarding the incident to the mass media.

Those type of WACO-type taser deaths.



Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
2. Taser incidents have been happening sporadically since the '90s. Not 2004.

I can guarantee you the general public wasn’t aware of any taser deaths around the 90’s.
Only recently in 2000, TASER International of Arizona introduced the entire new ‘non-lethal’ taser weapon, the M26, which the company touted as being nearly four times more powerful than its predecessors. And 3 years after the M26 came the X26, offering “even greater stopping power.”

Now what’s interesting: Have we been informed of so many taser-deaths in the news around 2000? 2001? 2002? 2003? These instruments (or mobile electric chairs) were hardly known to the public in general at that time.
The media only recently started to cover these WACO-type taser deaths in 2004, starting out as isolated, monthly cases and now growing worse into the civil war exactly as Titor "predicted" it.

Only recently in 2004 a number of human and civil rights organizations have begun documenting deaths related to the use of Tasers including the American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the Canadian Police Research Center in Ottawa.

Furthermore Titor made it clear that Canada would be “pretty much in the same type of conflict.” And with taser-related deaths in Canada evolving qualitatively and quantitatively on a par with the United States, one can say this is indeed true.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
3. Titor not once mentions tasers. If taser are such a central part of the Civil War, then why in the world didn't he mention them?

As pointed out so many times on this thread, Titor is mentioning them. Just because you don’t want to see it doesn’t mean he didn’t forewarn us:

Now let us analyse Titor’s words:


John Titor
”However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal.”

A great many. Let’s assume John Titor meant a great many as in quantities as well as varieties. And those great many “non-lethal” weapon systems would turn out to be quite lethal. So clearly that wasn’t happening around the time he mentioned it.


John Titor
“Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons.”

I watch your television programs. No doubt John Titor is referring to…. our television programs during that time. Those television programs show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. What kind of new non-lethal weapons were the SWAT teams testing during the time John Titor mentioned it? Exactly! The newly developed “non-lethal” tasers shooting two fish-hook-barbed electrical wires travelling up to 21 feet delivering a 50,000-volt shock! Was John Titor referring to the SWAT teams or the use of new non-lethal weapons? The latter ofcourse. John Titor was trying to make something clear. He wanted to give an example. What was he trying to make clear when he referred to our television programs showing SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons? Let’s see…


John Titor
”They usually start out with, "In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems…"”

They. Who are they? The television programs John Titor was referring to ofcourse. And they usually start out with: “In the future, the army and police will fight it’s enemies with new weapons systems.” Apparently John Titor wanted to make clear that something would happen in the future. These “new weapon systems” would be used by the army and police to fight their enemies. But who are their enemies?


John Titor
”When they use the word "enemy", they're talking about YOU!”

Who….ME? Me the US civilian? Me the reader of John Titor’s quotes? YES! So the army and police as officers of the law will be my enemy? They will see me as their enemy? And they will fight me with their new non-lethal weapons? YES!


John Titor
”You don't really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you?”

Why would John Titor mention Marines jumping out of helicopters? Because this was the image that those television programs projected during that time. Titor was using a hyperbole in his language. An exaggeration of speech. It was about the relatively innocent “sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights” versus the deadly effects of those new “non-lethal” weapon systems. Titor was clearly referring to the new “non-lethal” weapon systems appearing to be quite lethal being used by authorities upon their enemies….YOU!

Who are these authorities? Firstly our own officers of the law, secondly the army. Titor made no mistake about it what he meant when mentioning WACO-type events steadily getting worse. Was he referring to WACO because of the great fire or because in his viewpoint the law enforcement officers were responsible for the death of innocent/defenceless people? Why don’t we let Titor say it himself:


John Titor
“Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?”

The number of taser related deaths is growing gruesomely. No other “non-lethal” weapon has proven to be as lethal to the common US civilian as the new tasers being used by our own officers of the law, exactly as John Titor “predicted” it would happen.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
4. Thousands of people have been shot to death by police officers. THOUSANDS. In the US alone.

How many DEFENSELESS people are SHOT to death by their own authorities? Well? Were they unarmed and defenseless as with all those executed by taser?


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
In the past decade the total deaths from tasers is just over 100 in North America. Now, what makes you think that the use of deadly force that has been going on for decades won't cause a civil war, but a few incidents in which the only people who die are people high on drugs or have heart problems will cause a Civil War?

It’s the manner in which you are ridiculing and belittling the taser deaths that is a perfect example of provoking conflict. The ignorance is entirely by your side. What kind of mental disturbance makes it rightful for police officers to taser-execute defenseless people using medication or suffering health problems?

Furthermore tasers have killed people with or without a pre existing condition. Tasers can contribute to significant and potentially fatal health risks as healthy police officers have found out themselves:



www.yourlawyer.com...
Police Officers From Five States Sue Taser International for Serious Injuries Suffered During Stun Gun Training Classes
One officer, a Missouri police chief, alleges that he suffered heart damage and two strokes after he volunteered to be shocked with a Taser in April 2004, while hooked up to a cardiac monitor that was supposed to show the Taser was safe. The officer also claims he suffered hearing and vision loss as well as neurological damage.

Other injuries claimed by the officers involved include spinal fractures, burns, a dislocated shoulder, and soft-tissue damage. A previous lawsuit file in February 2004 alleged a sheriff’s deputy suffered a fractured back in 2002.

The lawsuits also allege Taser International withheld reports of injuries to at least 12 other police officers and that the company has ignored credible research suggesting the device can be extremely dangerous, if not fatal.

A recent training bulletin issued by Taser, however, advised police that “repeated, prolonged, and/or continuous exposures to the Taser may cause strong muscle contractions that may impair breathing and respiration, particularly when the probes are placed across the chest or diaphragm.”



Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Titor made it very clear that he referred to WACO because of the misbehavior of law enforcement using so called 'non-lethal' weapons, leading to the deaths of 25 defenseless children and their parents.

Since when are guns and tanks considered "non-lethal"?

It were the (always denied and lied about for 6 years) fired ‘non-lethal’ pyrotechnic tear-gas canisters which heated up in order to release the gas and caused the fire which killed innocent and defenseless children with their parents.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Well, we can rule out the children and their parents, can we? So that means 75 people who did not shoot at all.

Let me see, was David Koresh attacking those ATF officers or was he defending himself?

Clearly no "organized group in combat." Period.

The branch davidians weren't a group?

Do you even know how it all started? The ATF had arrest and search warrants for David, his people, and compound and were delivering them. Why? Because of the illegal weapons and explosives they had. Now if they had just cooperated and obeyed the law, what do you think would have happened?

So far for the lie. And now the truth:

The local sheriff investigated and found no basis for complaints against the Branch Davidians. The firearms on the ranch were legally owned and registered. Nevertheless, the BATF circumvented the local sheriff's department (in violation of the law) and proceeded to the ranch with a sealed warrant.

The warrant remained sealed until after the April 19, 1993 fire. Had the warrant been dissected while the siege was in progress, the fact the warrant was built on falsehoods and distortions might have become an important topic of discussion in the media, and might have created pressure for the federal government to pursue only peaceful outcomes. By the time the warrant was released, however, Mount Carmel was in ashes and the warrant was irrelevant.

The affidavit of BATF agent Davy Aguilera, which served as the supporting document for the search and arrest warrant, was flawed, inadequate, failing to establish a probable cause that a federal crime had been committed.

More important, no warrant was needed to investigate Koresh or his house. That part was left out of the affidavit. Koresh's gun dealer McMahon testified that he told ATF agent Aguilera he was more then welcome to inspect the ranch:


McMahon testimony
"So I walked back in the room, holding the cordless phone and said, 'I've got [Koresh] on the phone. If you'd like to go out there and see those guns, you're more than welcome to.' They looked at each other and Aguilera got real paranoid, shaking his head and whispering, "No, no!'" so I went back to the phone and told David they wouldn't be coming out.'"


Though the Branch Davidians had a different belief system, which hopefully will never be seen as a crime, they were law-abiding American citizens and they trusted the U.S. Constitution to ensure their political rights.

Furthermore, those children and their parents (around 75) who have died a gruesome death in the fire were NOT, I repeat NOT a group in combat with law enforcement! Get the video “Rules of Engagement,” or watch “Waco: A New Revelation,” or perhaps read the book “Armageddon in Waco.”



en.wikipedia.org...
Perhaps because most of the critical views were seen as coming from the political fringes of the right and left, most mainstream media discounted any critical views until a groundbreaking 1997 documentary, Waco: The Rules of Engagement [3]. This film avoided the sensational allegations made in the earlier films, and instead presented an extensive history of the Branch Davidian movement, critical footage of the Congressional hearings on Waco, juxtaposition of official government spokespeople with footage and evidence contradicting them, and research including infrared footage showing that the government did use incendiary devices to start the fire which consumed the building. It was nominated for an Academy Award and was followed by another film: Waco: A New Revelation. These two films caused government agencies to reverse many of their earlier statements regarding the siege in the face of clear evidence contradicting those earlier statements.


Maybe you could also start to read the information provided by entering this URL: www.saf.org...
The Tragedy at Waco
Paul H. Blackman

[edit on 10-12-2005 by Roth Joint]



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Roth Joint
...
Though the Branch Davidians had a different belief system, which hopefully will never be seen as a crime, they were law-abiding American citizens and they trusted the U.S. Constitution to ensure their political rights.

Furthermore, those children and their parents (around 75) who have died a gruesome death in the fire were NOT, I repeat NOT a group in combat with law enforcement! Get the video “Rules of Engagement,” or watch “Waco: A New Revelation,” or perhaps read the book “Armageddon in Waco.”
..




now we're again getting to the bottom of the issue, aren't we? namely that there is a sizeable (darwinist?) minority clandestinely defending murdering people who 'don't fit in', whom they just don't (want to ?) understand, or whom they consider inferior.....

ring a bell?



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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Here are some quotes from some interesting links I gathered the last few days. The John Titor timeline about a "civil war" by 2005 can also be seen from a more global view, when you consider that the Western World is not confined to the exact boarders of the USA. Anywhere American interests are represented in foreign countries by American Forces, events have taken place that can be seen as Waco typ events. A civil war is in a broader sense is a war among civilised people. But before a true war with weapons comes into sight there is a process that can be described as a war of opinions. The changes of the Constitution since 2004 have to be included as the beginning of this process.

Here are some links to further that understanding:


Bush Plan For Total War
8-15-4
As Juan Cole, an Iraq expert at the University of Michigan, notes, the Waco-style" Najaf attack, especially if "Sayyid" (a putative descendant of the Prophet Muhammad) Muqtada is killed, will most assuredly result in "a long-term low-intensity guerrilla war, similar to what Sunni radicals and Arab nationalists have done in the Sunni heartland for the past 16 months."
Full report here:
rense.com...

Non-lethal weapons
Copyright Joe Vialls, 20 February 2003
Instead of VX nerve gas, these, “humane” 1,000# chemical weapons are loaded with Valium aerosol, designed, in the exact words of the demented American Defense Secretary, “only to pacify” the Iraqi people. Take it from me, anyone within 20 meters of the bomb burst will choke to death instantly on the concentrated aerosol, and all small woman and children within 50 meters of the bomb burst will choke to death somewhat more slowly. There is no such thing as a “non-lethal” gas weapon, but Bush has given Rumsfeld the nod to use them anyway.
Full report here
www.vialls.com...

Lack of Radiation Confuses "Experts"
Copyright Joe Vialls, 21 October 2002, Updated 13 February 2003
Claiming “amazing chemical skills” for the bombers is seriously understating the case. Any alchemist out there who could transmute potassium chlorate detergent into a critical plutonium nuclear weapon of the kind detonated at Kuta Beach, would instantly win the Nobel Prizes for chemistry and physics, before being politely but forcibly inducted into the American nuclear program at Los Alamos Laboratories.
Full report here
homepage.ntlworld.com...


"Do a Waco" on the Birthplace of Christ
Joe Vialls, 15 April 2002
www.vialls.com...



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
And BTW Just because Roth Joint Sees the USA the way John Titor described it would be doesn't mean he Wants a Civil War here, and personally you have to be a little off to accuse someone of that. It easy for me to see what side you would be on If/When this does happen.

LDragonFire, thank you for making that clear.


Roth.



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by Roth Joint
No, WACO-type taser deaths as in:


WACO-type event
1) People were dying a cruel and unnecessary death by the hand of their own officers of the law while their deaths should have been avoided and while their voices and pleas haven't been listened to. - This is comparable to all the taser deaths that should and could have been avoided.

2) The law enforcement officers responsible for their deaths were cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death." - Reviewing all these taser death cases, not a single officer of the law has been prosecuted for "wrongful death." Not even one!

3) Authorities spreading disinformation regarding the incident to the mass media.

Those type of WACO-type taser deaths.

Ummm...this thread is about Titor. Why are you quoting yourself? Are you Titor?
No one cares about your definition of a Waco type event. We're talking about Titor's.




Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
2. Taser incidents have been happening sporadically since the '90s. Not 2004.

I can guarantee you the general public wasn’t aware of any taser deaths around the 90’s.

See.
Why do you keep saying stuff like this? I hate to keep on repeating myself.
AGAIN, just because YOU weren't paying attention doesn't mean everyone esle wasn't. I knew of Taser deaths in the '90s. In fact, there's probably the same amount of people who knew of taser deaths in the '90s as there are now.
If someone was keeping track of these deaths, then wouldn't that mean someone is aware of them?



Only recently in 2000, TASER International of Arizona introduced the entire new ‘non-lethal’ taser weapon, the M26, which the company touted as being nearly four times more powerful than its predecessors. And 3 years after the M26 came the X26, offering “even greater stopping power.”

This is irrelevant. Tasers were still used before 2000.


Now what’s interesting: Have we been informed of so many taser-deaths in the news around 2000? 2001? 2002? 2003? These instruments (or mobile electric chairs) were hardly known to the public in general at that time.
The media only recently started to cover these WACO-type taser deaths in 2004, starting out as isolated, monthly cases and now growing worse into the civil war exactly as Titor "predicted" it.

lmao

It's stuff like that....the reason I know for sure you're just pulling our chains.


Only recently in 2004 a number of human and civil rights organizations have begun documenting deaths related to the use of Tasers including the American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the Canadian Police Research Center in Ottawa.

ATS has rules about posting blatantly false information. This is blatantly false info and you know it.
More proof you're trying to twist your own twisted world into Titor's/



As pointed out so many times on this thread, Titor is mentioning them. Just because you don’t want to see it doesn’t mean he didn’t forewarn us:

Now let us analyse Titor’s words:


John Titor
”However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal.”

And I have pointed out several times in this thread (helping the Titorites side of the argument out a bit because they sure do need it - page 35 is the first time I believe) what those "new weapon systems" (as Titor stated) could be. Those were much more relevant to what Titor was talking about, yet Roth just completely ignored it because he's so high on his taser trip. It's sad really. He won't even accept help because he HAS to be right.
Titor said that well over 100 million people in the US would die from this war. In Roth's world, that means over 100 million people in the US would be tasered to death


And again, (Roth, you can't keep ignoring this stuff) Titor also stated that the Waco type events and the start of the Civil War would be covered in the media like Waco. Meaning 24/7 wall to wall coverage. That's not happening. Period. We're 2 years into it, it should have happened by now. It hasn't. Period.
Stop ignoring Titor Roth.



John Titor
”You don't really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you?”

Why would John Titor mention Marines jumping out of helicopters? Because this was the image that those television programs projected during that time. Titor was using a hyperbole in his language. An exaggeration of speech. It was about the relatively innocent “sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights” versus the deadly effects of those new “non-lethal” weapon systems. Titor was clearly referring to the new “non-lethal” weapon systems appearing to be quite lethal being used by authorities upon their enemies….YOU!

Just to help you out a bit. Titor said, you don't really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters using that stuff "OVERSEAS"
Meaning they're developing that stuff for HERE. There was no exaggerations, etc.



The number of taser related deaths is growing gruesomely.

No, it really isn't.


No other “non-lethal” weapon has proven to be as lethal to the common US civilian as the new tasers being used by our own officers of the law, exactly as John Titor “predicted” it would happen.

Wow.
Please read the other links I have provided throughout this thread concerning non lethal weapons.


How many DEFENSELESS people are SHOT to death by their own authorities? Well? Were they unarmed and defenseless as with all those executed by taser?

Yes, that's what I'm talking about!



Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
In the past decade the total deaths from tasers is just over 100 in North America. Now, what makes you think that the use of deadly force that has been going on for decades won't cause a civil war, but a few incidents in which the only people who die are people high on drugs or have heart problems will cause a Civil War?

It’s the manner in which you are ridiculing and belittling the taser deaths that is a perfect example of provoking conflict. The ignorance is entirely by your side. What kind of mental disturbance makes it rightful for police officers to taser-execute defenseless people using medication or suffering health problems?

Are you serious or do you really not understand my post? I put it in simple words, a child should be able to understand that.
I'll try to make it simpler for you.
Where did you get off thinking that I condone taser deaths? Not once in my posts did I come close to saying anything like that!! Do you have a reading comprehension problem (not trying to get on you! It's an honest question).
I stated that for decades thousands upon thousands of people have been killed by police officers, yet no Civil War has broken out.
What makes you think that the use of tasers (which has killed only people high on drugs [BAD drugs - not medication you....nevermind] and people with heart conditions) will cause a civil war?


Furthermore tasers have killed people with or without a pre existing condition. Tasers can contribute to significant and potentially fatal health risks as healthy police officers have found out themselves:

see below (what I wrote to Dragon)


Titor made it very clear that he referred to WACO because of the misbehavior of law enforcement using so called 'non-lethal' weapons, leading to the deaths of 25 defenseless children and their parents.

No, he used Waco as a reference because that was the last time a group had a deadly standoff with the US government on that scale. That's what he made clear. DEADLY and LETHAL weapons were used at Waco. Please take a look at the autopsy reports....


The local sheriff investigated and found no basis for complaints against the Branch Davidians. The firearms on the ranch were legally owned and registered.

Nevertheless, the BATF circumvented the local sheriff's department (in violation of the law) and proceeded to the ranch with a sealed warrant.

Dude, do you even read the links your provide. The sheriffs asked for help from the ATF after gernades were delivered to the compound. That lead to a SEVERAL MONTH investigation where they found several weapon violations.

AFTER everything and they searched the ruins of the compound, DOZENS of machineguns and IEDs were found.


Though the Branch Davidians had a different belief system, which hopefully will never be seen as a crime, they were law-abiding American citizens and they trusted the U.S. Constitution to ensure their political rights.

Polygamy was practiced - illegall
There were serious reports of child abuse - illegal if true
Some of the weapons and IEDs they had - illegal
Resisting arrest - illegal
Murder of federal police officers - illegal

from the link you provided:

The Davidians' motives are also unclear. An article run in the Washington Post [1] posits that the Davidian's actions, namely, taking up arms and fortifying themselves in light of a potential ATF strike, contrast with their claims of being law-abiding citizens. Ignoring value judgements for the moment, resisting law enforcement acting in their legal capacity is illegal. The ATF obtained proper search and arrest warrants for the firearms and explosives charges.


It's stuff like that, that Titor considered to be the begining of the civil war. People taking up arms against what they feel is an overopprssive government.
In taser incidents, you just have police officers subdueing someone. There's no back and forth. There's no statements being made. And there's not anger being raised in the public because of it. Now if something like Waco happened each month, then the public would be in uproar.
THAT'S what Titor was talking about.



Dragon:


1. Was it ever proved if they indeed had illeagal weapons and explosives?

Yeah, pre and post investigations....


2. Why didn't the ATF just wait for groups of the BranchDividians to come into Town to make arrests? Weaken there numbers first then sieze the compound at least try to arrest some of there leaders before a assault on there compound.

This is part what they were criticized for. You're going to have to ask the higher ups at that time why....
The Davidians knew that the raid was going to take place, and the ATF knew the Davidians knew. Raiding the place was only asking for trouble and....well...you know the rest.



Here's one link
news.enquirer.com.../20050222/COL05/502220309/1004
[url]

But here's a real news story that is not actually semi-true: "More than 80 deaths have been reported since 1999 after victims were shocked with stun guns," said USA Today last week.

The "80 deaths" are greatly exaggerated. In the original Arizona Republic news story cited by USA Today, Tasers were a contributing cause of death three times, and were not ruled out three times.

In the rest of the 70-something deaths, Tasers were used, but the causes of death were something else: drug overdoses, medical conditions, injuries from violence during the arrest or before police arrived, etc.

Only six possible Taser fatalities is not as sensational or misleading as "80 deaths," but from what I can tell, a lot of reporters are not doing their homework. A quick look on Google shows dozens of news stories that parrot the "80 deaths" claim, while quoting outraged left-wing groups such as Amnesty International and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference to back it up.

Here's what the Taser scare stories don't say:

Tasers are used about 100,000 times a year by 6,000 police departments. That's five "possible" deaths in about a half-million Taser uses.

And in Cincinnati and other cities, injuries to cops and suspects drop sharply when cops are equipped with Tasers. According to Taser International of Scottsdale, Ariz., more than 4,000 lives have been saved by Tasers since 1999, including cops, potential suicides, suspects who resist arrest and mental patients who could harm themselves or kill someone else.

Before '99 use and any deaths weren't really recorded, but they were being used. They were first introduced in the '70s. They became popular among the police departments in the '90s. The LAPD has been widely using them since the early '90s.


Sorry if the Tazer talk on this thread bothers some people, but Titor mentioned "Non Leathal" weapons systems not me.

And like I said early, I've provided links more relevant to what Titor was talking about.


And BTW Just because Roth Joint Sees the USA the way John Titor described it

No, Roth sees the world as Roth sees the world. His world and Titor's don't match.

And if he didn't want a Civil War so bad, why is he doing all this? Trying desperately to prove a non existent civil war exists. I have yet to see anything from Roth that would tell me he doesn't want a Civil War.

peter:

The John Titor timeline about a "civil war" by 2005 can also be seen from a more global view, when you consider that the Western World is not confined to the exact boarders of the USA. Anywhere American interests are represented in foreign countries by American Forces, events have taken place that can be seen as Waco typ events. A civil war is in a broader sense is a war among civilised people.

Titor mentioned specific things that would happen in the US and specific things that would happen world wide.
And no a civil war in a broader sense is not a war among civilized people, every definition of Civil War states that it's a war between factions in the same country.


[edit on 10-12-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Roth Joint

Originally posted by LDragonFire
And BTW Just because Roth Joint Sees the USA the way John Titor described it would be doesn't mean he Wants a Civil War here, and personally you have to be a little off to accuse someone of that. It easy for me to see what side you would be on If/When this does happen.

LDragonFire, thank you for making that clear.

Roth.


I agree with that myself. Nobody in his right mind is trying to prove a "civil war" exists just for the fun of having it happen. It is a rightful concern of everyone to seek out, analyse and filter all possible sources of information if such a war is real or not. It is a basic and valid way of searching for all indications if John Titor's message is TRUE or FALSE.
Neglecting it alltogether just because he claims to have come via timemachine is in the light of true occurences a matter of neglecting what is truely happening on a world-scale level. That machine is of secondary importance, maybe just a highlight to get people to look into what else might be valid to move us into further and deeper investigation. And that one thing that might be of greater importance is to be more critical towards mainstream news that is just trying to "put us asleep". Those who are trying to debunk John Titor might just be the ones who don't want you to realize what is really going on at this very moment. Censorship and Propaganda are the means by which many voices tempt us to believe everything is in the best of order.
John Titor is telling all to be aware of things to come. His message is loud and clear: don't fall asleep and keep searching for the things to rightfully believe in. Don't leave it up to others to make the decisions for you. Don't follow blindly what others might want to say to put you in a state of security, when there are enough warning signs spelling otherwise.
John Titor is not what I would define a prophet. Not like the many hundert prophets I have studied in the past 40 years who lived before our time and always talked of "things to come". He might not even be a time-traveller. But his message coincides with the description of the events that will happen.
If his message has any meaning, then this: use it to further your own understanding and sharpen your senses for the meaning of right and wrong.

Peter Paul



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 03:40 PM
link   


Ummm...this thread is about Titor. Why are you quoting yourself? Are you Titor?
No one cares about your definition of a Waco type event. We're talking about Titor's.

by ThatsJustWeird]


Of all the ignorant sentances you ever wrote, I would just like to point out something very clear to you: You are stating your very own opinion here. And when you write the words "no one cares about your defintion....", then I would like to know if you include me too. I never gave you any right or authority to represent me or include me in your way of thinking.
I would greatly advise you to exclude me from this kind of interpretation in the future. I talk for myself and am allowed to do so as a man of free will and with a mind of my own. How are you to tell or even know that "no one" cares? Are you the sole representaive of more than 6 billion people?
It is the right of every single being to express themselves and interpet the messages and news to the best of their very own understanding. And if you think that "no one cares", then you are the very first here to hear my answer: I care very much what others on this string have to say, no matter how absurd or far fetched. You know you just reveiled to me that you have a strange way of discriminating others and their very own interpretation. I've just come to a point where I think that "you don't care" to be respected by others. And that "you don't care" to respect or consider other people's very own understandings.
Peter Paul



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 05:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Ummm...this thread is about Titor. Why are you quoting yourself? Are you Titor?
No one cares about your definition of a Waco type event. We're talking about Titor's.

Your wrong and you knew that ofcourse already. Again, here’s what Titor meant with a WACO-type event: the method of action by law enforcement killing defenseless law-abiding US civilians. Let’s hear it from Titor himself again:


John Titor
“Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?”

There you go. Titor wasn’t referring to organized groups in combat when he mentioned WACO and WACO-type events. He clearly referred to the method of action by law enforcement.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
I can guarantee you the general public wasn’t aware of any taser deaths around the 90’s.

See.
Why do you keep saying stuff like this? I hate to keep on repeating myself.
AGAIN, just because YOU weren't paying attention doesn't mean everyone esle wasn't. I knew of Taser deaths in the '90s. In fact, there's probably the same amount of people who knew of taser deaths in the '90s as there are now.
If someone was keeping track of these deaths, then wouldn't that mean someone is aware of them?

Also here you know that you have no argument. Titor mentioned ‘non-lethal’ weapons in development, so clearly he wasn’t referring to the older batons that were used in the ‘90s. The newly developed M26 and X26 taser devices are an entirely new “non-lethal” weapon, shooting 50,000 volts of wired electricity upon the opponent and sticking to the body for at least 5 seconds! as opposed to the older batons that weren't able to shoot anything at all!


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Only recently in 2000, TASER International of Arizona introduced the entire new ‘non-lethal’ taser weapon, the M26, which the company touted as being nearly four times more powerful than its predecessors. And 3 years after the M26 came the X26, offering “even greater stopping power.”

This is irrelevant. Tasers were still used before 2000.

Again, those older batons were not what Titor was referring to.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Now what’s interesting: Have we been informed of so many taser-deaths in the news around 2000? 2001? 2002? 2003? These instruments (or mobile electric chairs) were hardly known to the public in general at that time.
The media only recently started to cover these WACO-type taser deaths in 2004, starting out as isolated, monthly cases and now growing worse into the civil war exactly as Titor "predicted" it.

lmao

It's stuff like that....the reason I know for sure you're just pulling our chains.

Well, I would say try to prove me wrong.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Only recently in 2004 a number of human and civil rights organizations have begun documenting deaths related to the use of Tasers including the American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the Canadian Police Research Center in Ottawa.

ATS has rules about posting blatantly false information. This is blatantly false info and you know it.
More proof you're trying to twist your own twisted world into Titor's/

I am well aware of ATS rules and I dare you to provide evidence that I have provided false information. The information I have given is verifiable and factual.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
As pointed out so many times on this thread, Titor is mentioning them. Just because you don’t want to see it doesn’t mean he didn’t forewarn us:

Now let us analyse Titor’s words:


John Titor
”However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal.”


And I have pointed out several times in this thread (helping the Titorites side of the argument out a bit because they sure do need it - page 35 is the first time I believe) what those "new weapon systems" (as Titor stated) could be. Those were much more relevant to what Titor was talking about, yet Roth just completely ignored it because he's so high on his taser trip. It's sad really. He won't even accept help because he HAS to be right.
Titor said that well over 100 million people in the US would die from this war. In Roth's world, that means over 100 million people in the US would be tasered to death


You are wrong again. Titor meant the newly developed taser devices as outlined above. At the time Titor referred to our television programs showing SWAT teams using new ‘non-lethal weapons’ those SWAT teams were testing the newly developed “non-lethal” tasers shooting two fish-hook-barbed electrical wires travelling up to 21 feet delivering a 50,000-volt shock!

Let’s hear it from TASER International itself:



www.taser.com...
In 1998, the company began Project Stealth: the development of the higher power weapons to stop extremely combative, violent individuals who were impervious to non-lethal weapons. The result of Project Stealth was the ADVANCED TASER M26. Models of the ADVANCED TASER were successfully tested on various Arizona police SWAT team members, each of whom were knocked down and subdued by the device, without injury.

There you go. The M26. Exactly the same new “non-lethal” weapon used by our officers of the law nowadays.

Apparently, John Titor also had foreknowledge of other new ‘non-lethal’ weapons being used upon US civilians in general in the future with an even deadlier effect. That’s why he mentioned “a great many "non lethal" weapon systems” and also made a reference to the new microwave crowd-control weapon called the “active-denial system” falling under the category “Directed Energy Weapons” (DEW) when he said: “anyone for microwave popcorn?”


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
And again, (Roth, you can't keep ignoring this stuff) Titor also stated that the Waco type events and the start of the Civil War would be covered in the media like Waco. Meaning 24/7 wall to wall coverage. That's not happening. Period. We're 2 years into it, it should have happened by now. It hasn't. Period.
Stop ignoring Titor Roth.

Also here you are wrong. Clearly the one who is trying to twist facts here is you. You say that “Titor also stated that the Waco type events and the start of the Civil War would be covered in the media like Waco.” I say you are a lousy liar. Titor never stated that. What Titor stated was:


John Titor
”I don't remember a great deal about media coverage during the civil conflicts. I would probably characterize it the same way you see coverage of Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez.”

So the truth is:
Words as “don’t remember a great deal” and “probably” leave us only to speculate. John Titor could not specifically tell us if these civil conflicts would be covered by the mass media.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint

John Titor
”You don't really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you?”

Why would John Titor mention Marines jumping out of helicopters? Because this was the image that those television programs projected during that time. Titor was using a hyperbole in his language. An exaggeration of speech. It was about the relatively innocent “sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights” versus the deadly effects of those new “non-lethal” weapon systems. Titor was clearly referring to the new “non-lethal” weapon systems appearing to be quite lethal being used by authorities upon their enemies….YOU!

Just to help you out a bit. Titor said, you don't really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters using that stuff "OVERSEAS"
Meaning they're developing that stuff for HERE. There was no exaggerations, etc.

lol. Titor solely referred to those television programs indeed showing Marines jumping out of helicopters overseas. Just as those same television programs were showing the M26 and X26 newly developed tasers.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
The number of taser related deaths is growing gruesomely.

No, it really isn't.

Yes it is and they are growing every month.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
No other “non-lethal” weapon has proven to be as lethal to the common US civilian as the new tasers being used by our own officers of the law, exactly as John Titor “predicted” it would happen.

Please read the other links I have provided throughout this thread concerning non lethal weapons.

Please read up on recent taser deaths. No other new ‘non-lethal’ weapon since Titor mentioned them has proven to be as lethal to the common US civilian as the new tasers being used by our own officers of the law.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
How many DEFENSELESS people are SHOT to death by their own authorities? Well? Were they unarmed and defenseless as with all those executed by taser?

Yes, that's what I'm talking about!

Well, if that’s true, that really shows us that WACO-type events are growing worse. But I doubt you can show me 50+ cases where a police officer killed a defenseless US citizen by using a gun this year…


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
In the past decade the total deaths from tasers is just over 100 in North America. Now, what makes you think that the use of deadly force that has been going on for decades won't cause a civil war, but a few incidents in which the only people who die are people high on drugs or have heart problems will cause a Civil War?

You are twisting facts again. There is no decade to review taser deaths from the newly developed M26 and X26 because they were distributed only a few years ago.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
It’s the manner in which you are ridiculing and belittling the taser deaths that is a perfect example of provoking conflict. The ignorance is entirely by your side. What kind of mental disturbance makes it rightful for police officers to taser-execute defenseless people using medication or suffering health problems?

Are you serious or do you really not understand my post? I put it in simple words, a child should be able to understand that.
I'll try to make it simpler for you.
Where did you get off thinking that I condone taser deaths? Not once in my posts did I come close to saying anything like that!! Do you have a reading comprehension problem (not trying to get on you! It's an honest question).
I stated that for decades thousands upon thousands of people have been killed by police officers, yet no Civil War has broken out.
What makes you think that the use of tasers (which has killed only people high on drugs [BAD drugs - not medication you....nevermind] and people with heart conditions) will cause a civil war?

Since when are medications against high blood pressure and antidepressants bad drugs? People that were solely using their prescribed medication have died as a result of being tasered.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Titor made it very clear that he referred to WACO because of the misbehavior of law enforcement using so called 'non-lethal' weapons, leading to the deaths of 25 defenseless children and their parents.

No, he used Waco as a reference because that was the last time a group had a deadly standoff with the US government on that scale. That's what he made clear. DEADLY and LETHAL weapons were used at Waco. Please take a look at the autopsy reports....

Bottom-line, you have just confirmed that Titor indeed referred to the method of action used by law enforcement in WACO and NOT to organized groups in combat. Thank you. Finally we agree on something here.


John Titor
“Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?”



Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
The local sheriff investigated and found no basis for complaints against the Branch Davidians. The firearms on the ranch were legally owned and registered.

Nevertheless, the BATF circumvented the local sheriff's department (in violation of the law) and proceeded to the ranch with a sealed warrant.

Dude, do you even read the links your provide. The sheriffs asked for help from the ATF after gernades were delivered to the compound. That lead to a SEVERAL MONTH investigation where they found several weapon violations.

AFTER everything and they searched the ruins of the compound, DOZENS of machineguns and IEDs were found.

David Koresh was a collector of these items. That’s not a huge crime, isn’t it?

Then again, I never said that David Koresh was a saint. While Koresh may well have made some inert grenade hulls into live grenades and selling them at gun shows in an attempt to make some money for the Branch Davidians no probable cause was established by the evidence presented in the BATF affidavit.

Owing a machine gun around that time was legal as long as the owner pays a certain tax on the gun. So the BATF raid was launched because the Branch Davidians were suspected of possibly owning a machine gun that they had failed to pay the tax on.

Apparently Koresh and some of his followers attended gun shows, but the BATF already knew that. Just as the BATF knew that massive force was not needed. Apperently you haven’t read the link I provided you, so here’s a quote with regards to Koresh’ compliance with law enforcement in earlier investigations:


The Tragedy at Waco by Paul H. Blackman
www.saf.org...
The indications are that Koresh was sincere, and that there was no need for violence, even if Koresh were in violation of federal gun laws. He had, after all, submitted without incident to an earlier arrest and seizure of guns for attempted murder in 1987. The district attorney at the time "recalled, 'We had no problems' with arresting the Davidians. The sheriff and a deputy simply called Koresh and told him that charges were pending and that he and his associates would have to turn themselves in and surrender their weapons. Deputies went to the compound and the suspects readily complied." (Lee, 1993a:23)

Koresh had also submitted to a warrantless investigation by Joyce Sparks, of the Texas Department of Human Services, who went to the compound on at least two occasions to investigate possible child sexual abuse charges against Koresh. On the second visit, on April 6, 1992, he reportedly escorted her through the compound and showed her some of his guns, and where he did some target shooting. (Aguilera, 1993:7-9) Earlier, in compliance with a Michigan court order, he had allowed a child to be removed from the compound.7 (Wattenberg, 1993:32)

In addition, after a neighboring farmer, Robert L. Cervenka, complained to the sheriff's office that he had heard machinegun fire in January and February 1992 (Aguilera, 1993:4), the sheriff's office investigated the incidents. "He [Koresh] escorted local sheriff's deputies...through the compound after they had called beforehand to say they were coming. Koresh even invited one of the deputy sheriffs to come back and fish in their lake, according to McLennan County Sheriff Jack Harwell." (Wattenberg, 1993:32)

Koresh showed the sheriff that he was using something similar to the Hellfire device, which allows a semi-automatic to be fired in a manner almost replicating in speed and regularity a machinegun burst. Koresh and the Branch Davidians checked with the sheriff to make sure that the devices were legal and did not require registration or federal tax payment. (McMahon and Kilpatrick, 1993:58-59; Pate, 1993c:47)

As the Christian Science Monitor noted: "In the past, upon learning that local authorities were concerned about the types of weapons the Branch Davidians might possess, sect members elected to take samples in for examination to prove the weapons were legal." (Pendleton, 1993; Hinds, 1993:8)



Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Here's one link
news.enquirer.com.../20050222/COL05/502220309/1004

Nice taser propaganda ThatsJustWeird. Too bad I can read through that. Nicely stimulated by TASER itself. But a death following exposure to a taser is a taser-related death.



A quick look on Google shows dozens of news stories that parrot the "80 deaths" claim, while quoting outraged left-wing groups such as Amnesty International and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference to back it up.

WOW! What a downright dirty piece of sophistry! A “real news story that is not actually semi-true?”


Here’s a real story:


www.yourlawyer.com...
Police Officers From Five States Sue Taser International for Serious Injuries Suffered During Stun Gun Training Classes
One officer, a Missouri police chief, alleges that he suffered heart damage and two strokes after he volunteered to be shocked with a Taser in April 2004, while hooked up to a cardiac monitor that was supposed to show the Taser was safe. The officer also claims he suffered hearing and vision loss as well as neurological damage.

Other injuries claimed by the officers involved include spinal fractures, burns, a dislocated shoulder, and soft-tissue damage. A previous lawsuit file in February 2004 alleged a sheriff’s deputy suffered a fractured back in 2002.

The lawsuits also allege Taser International withheld reports of injuries to at least 12 other police officers and that the company has ignored credible research suggesting the device can be extremely dangerous, if not fatal.

A recent training bulletin issued by Taser, however, advised police that “repeated, prolonged, and/or continuous exposures to the Taser may cause strong muscle contractions that may impair breathing and respiration, particularly when the probes are placed across the chest or diaphragm.”



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 06:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by peterpaul


Ummm...this thread is about Titor. Why are you quoting yourself? Are you Titor?
No one cares about your definition of a Waco type event. We're talking about Titor's.

by ThatsJustWeird]


Of all the ignorant sentances you ever wrote, I would just like to point out something very clear to you: You are stating your very own opinion here. And when you write the words "no one cares about your defintion....", then I would like to know if you include me too. I never gave you any right or authority to represent me or include me in your way of thinking.
I would greatly advise you to exclude me from this kind of interpretation in the future. I talk for myself and am allowed to do so as a man of free will and with a mind of my own. How are you to tell or even know that "no one" cares? Are you the sole representaive of more than 6 billion people?
It is the right of every single being to express themselves and interpet the messages and news to the best of their very own understanding. And if you think that "no one cares", then you are the very first here to hear my answer: I care very much what others on this string have to say, no matter how absurd or far fetched. You know you just reveiled to me that you have a strange way of discriminating others and their very own interpretation. I've just come to a point where I think that "you don't care" to be respected by others. And that "you don't care" to respect or consider other people's very own understandings.
Peter Paul

Peter Paul, great post and I entirely agree upon it.



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 10:20 PM
link   
i found either
1. John Titor
2. The guy that john titor pretty much took his story from then ran with it
3. a guy that basically collaborates with titor in many ways

www.theyfly.com...

basically the last one where america goes into two civil wars, one right after the other, leading to the country breaking into 5 parts.....yea that pretty much convinced me by that point that something was going on.



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 10:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by grimreaper797
i found either
1. John Titor
2. The guy that john titor pretty much took his story from then ran with it
3. a guy that basically collaborates with titor in many ways



©2005 Michael Horn


Try someone who took TITOR'S story and tried to run with it. Anymore useless links to throw at us?

-Chris

[edit on 12/10/2005 by Legend]



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 10:40 PM
link   
im simply tellin everyone where he got his story from then. you make your own decisions on which but i personally he ran with this guys story as well.

anyone wish to discuss this? or just wanna pass it off as a coincidence and try to hold on to the pretty much stolen titor story. like i said i personally think that this guys story was the original and titor just had alot of fun with it. any other opinions?



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 06:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by grimreaper797
i found either
1. John Titor
2. The guy that john titor pretty much took his story from then ran with it
3. a guy that basically collaborates with titor in many ways

www.theyfly.com...

basically the last one where america goes into two civil wars, one right after the other, leading to the country breaking into 5 parts.....yea that pretty much convinced me by that point that something was going on.

Very interesting find grimreaper797.


It's especially interesting having in mind the following parts of the Henoch Prophecies were presented by Quetzal on February 28, 1987!


Henoch Prophecies by Quetzal - Feb 28, 1987
Destruction in North America
Far in the West, it will be different; the United States of America will be a country of total destruction. The cause for this will be manifold. With her global conflicts which are continuously instigated by her and which will continue far into the future, America is creating enormous hatred against her, worldwide, in many countries. As a result, America will experience enormous catastrophes which will reach proportions barely imaginable to people of Earth. The destruction of the WTC, i.e., the World Trade Center, by terrorists will only be the beginning.

Yet all the apocalyptic events will not only be brought about due to the use of unbelievably deadly and destructive weapons—such as chemical, laser and others—and by cloned murder machines; but in addition to this, the Earth and nature, maltreated to the deepest depths by the irresponsible human beings of Earth, will rise up and cause destruction and bring death onto the Earth. Enormous firestorms and gigantic hurricanes will sweep over the USA and bring devastation, destruction and annihilation, as this from time immemorial never before will have happened [sic].

Not only will America, but also all other Western industrial countries which still live at the beginning of the new millennium in the delusion that they could dominate and rule over underdeveloped nations, i.e., Third World countries, will not only soon lose influence over these but must defend themselves against them.

According to the prophecies of Henoch, the truth about industrialised countries is that they only seem to appear to be true civilisations, but in fact they are not; because more and more, at the end of the 20th century and at the beginning of the third millennium, they will disregard all true love, true freedom and true wisdom as well as true peace along with all values of humaneness and all values of men's and women's true being.
But not even all the terrible happenings will hinder the USA in continuing to proceed with her actions against all countries. Even when the North American continent will be stricken by the most terrible catastrophe which has ever been recorded, evil military powers will wreak havoc with computerised and nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, whereby it will also happen that computerised weapons become independent and cannot be controlled any longer by human beings. Overall, this is the most important part of Henoch's prophecies.

Civil wars and anarchy in America
Yet the misery on Earth will continue, as two terrible civil wars will break out in America, whereby one will follow the other. Afterwards, the United States of America will break apart and deadly hostility will prevail among her, which then leads to the division into five different territories; and it cannot be prevented that sectarian fanatics will play a dictatorial role.
Anarchy will be the worldwide condition that will prevail and torment human beings over a long period of time, as human beings will also be tormented by the many epidemics and diseases, many of them new and unknown to human beings and for this reason incurable. Due to this fact, the bodies of many human beings will slowly and miserably decay, while unbearable pain will also occur as well as blindness and terrible respiratory problems that lead to suffocation. The consciousness of many human beings will become impaired and succumb to feeblemindedness and insanity. And all these gruesome occurrences will be traceable to biological and chemical weapons, which are the cause of not fast, but gruesome and slow deaths; and this will also occur due to the use of ray and frequency weapons which are already being developed today.

Finally, the words of Henoch may be specifically mentioned, which include that mankind of Earth, in pursuit of technology for mass destruction and greed for power, hatred, vengeance and riches, will ignore all values of Creation and will trample upon all values of love, wisdom, freedom and peace, as ancestors of the Henoch lineage have done before, to plunge the world into screaming misery, death, destruction and annihilation and into the most severe catastrophes mankind of Earth will ever have experienced. ∞


[edit on 11-12-2005 by Roth Joint]



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 09:30 AM
link   
I think this will tell you enough:



nbc15.madison.com...
Taser Manufacturer Removes "Non-Lethal" Classification
Sep 29, 2005

The makers of a stun gun used by many Wisconsin law enforcement departments, is taking their non-lethal description off their weapon.

Taser International is removing the words from their marketing materials. Deaths and injuries related to the gun's use have caused some departments to stop using it and others to question circumstances under which it should be used.

Taser International's gun is used by about a fifth of the nation's law enforcement agencies including the Madison Police Department.



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 09:48 AM
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Very well done grimreaper, and the same goes to you Roth Joint. That is the proper approach and right way of investigating the background of the John Titor messages. In the end the others will slowly but surely realize that is of no real importance if John Titor is a fake or not.
If you look and study all he had to say very closely, you should notice that it is not what he said (wrote) that is important, but what he DID NOT say. Those are the vital parts that you have to fill in yourself. He was just pointing in a direction you yourself have to go on to find out for yourself. The world around you will always try to put you back to sleep and make you think everything is in perfect order and harmony. Don't listen to those who keep repeating that it's not worth it to find the truth or that life doesn't have a higher meaning.
Even if you find other things that doen't fit in right away, that might just mean you haven't found all the missing pieces of the puzzle yet. So keep searching and you will find more. The more you understand, the more you will be able to make the right decisions what to believe and what not.
Peter Paul



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 12:10 PM
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You three HAVE to be kidding me. That was written in 2005, like I just said. Note the copyright. Do you seriously believe that Titor ran with a story that was written 6 years after his time? Good lord.


-Chris



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Legend
You three HAVE to be kidding me. That was written in 2005, like I just said. Note the copyright. Do you seriously believe that Titor ran with a story that was written 6 years after his time? Good lord.


-Chris


Nope. It was February 28, 1987. All of the information is verifiable.



www.nexusmagazine.com...
In the 215th Contact, known as the Henoch Prophecies, special emphasis was placed on America and the very times we are in. (These prophecies are contained in the 2004 book, And Still They Fly!) More recent comments by Meier have also carried harsh and heavy warnings about the current American administration and leadership and the danger of its leading the world into a cataclysmic Third World War.

• 215th Contact, February 28, 1987:
Known as the Henoch (or Enoch) Prophecies, this contact contained a forewarning of the destruction of the World Trade Center (WTC) by terrorism, the series of worldwide wars that the US would subsequently launch, and military actions involving Russia, China, France, Germany, Spain, England, Scandinavia and many Third World and other countries.
Corroborated: September 11, 2001, the WTC was destroyed; the United States has already attacked Afghanistan and Iraq as of the time of this writing.

Absence of Erroneous Prophetic Information
If, as some people might think, Meier somehow guessed or fabricated all of this specific, prophetically accurate information, it would be logical to assume that there would have to be an even more enormous body of randomly generated erroneous information.
Unfortunately for the sceptics, there simply is no such voluminous body of inaccurate work. And it's easy to prove this, since most of the information validated so far has been culled from a couple of thousand pages of the earliest English translations of the Contact Reports, published by Meier primarily between 1975 and 1979, with additional information excerpted from contacts in the 1980s and 1990s. Let me also add that there are still thousands of pages of untranslated German texts and some unofficial English translations that contain additional, already published, prophetic information awaiting scrutiny.



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 01:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by Legend
You three HAVE to be kidding me.


I agree, this is total junk, especially when people start linking the Jeff Rense web site and now the "NEW Nostradamus + UFO Contactee + Titor = aka Billy Meier" lol.. what a joke.... Oh please.......... The Titor story is not even remotely close about prophecies or UFO's............

It's about Titors future not ours.

Titor:
"what if I told you I did go forward to “your” 2036 and it looks nothing like mine. It is quite possible"
Yes, this is true. If I go forward on this world line, the future will not be my future

13 December 2000 12:44 (predictions for the future) 151
(Also if this theory is correct we may be 2% divergent from TT_0 but going forward in
this time line he is 98% divergent from us. My logic is pretty good here, how's my facts?)
Your deductions are quite accurate.
.


Plus, anyone can see it is pointless to even argue of when or if Titors civil war occurs. It happened on Titors world line not ours.

It does not take a genius to know that a country can break apart in civil war... It's just common sense of the possibilities. Give a 10 year old some history lessons, then ask him what if.... the child would probably predict a situation like this. LOL...

Get real... Meier is known to cling to anything that is in the spotlight for his own personal gains. There is no connection here unless we are talking about the Space-Time Continuum lol.......



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