The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

I would like to show you guys the evidence of what i'm about to say but I can't quite find it yet, since I saw it on the news and not on a website. There is a hideout chapple somewhere in Texas forgot where but fox has been keeping a close eye on it, and cops ect. The point i'm trying to get accross is that there is a guy in there in the top most wanted list and they're talking about another waco situation if they don't figure how what's happening just yet. I just thought I should share that with all of you declaring that there is no more waco type of events not going to happen, because this one might actually happen.

Originally posted by ithilin
I would like to show you guys the evidence of what i'm about to say but I can't quite find it yet, since I saw it on the news and not on a website. There is a hideout chapple somewhere in Texas forgot where but fox has been keeping a close eye on it, and cops ect. The point i'm trying to get accross is that there is a guy in there in the top most wanted list and they're talking about another waco situation if they don't figure how what's happening just yet. I just thought I should share that with all of you declaring that there is no more waco type of events not going to happen, because this one might actually happen.

I believe this has been discussed in this thread, I think the guys name is John Jakes, and his group left Utah and they are building limestone temples on a compound in Texas....very well could be another brewing Waco style thing sometime in the future.

Originally posted by LDragonFire

Originally posted by ithilin
I would like to show you guys the evidence of what i'm about to say but I can't quite find it yet, since I saw it on the news and not on a website. There is a hideout chapple somewhere in Texas forgot where but fox has been keeping a close eye on it, and cops ect. The point i'm trying to get accross is that there is a guy in there in the top most wanted list and they're talking about another waco situation if they don't figure how what's happening just yet. I just thought I should share that with all of you declaring that there is no more waco type of events not going to happen, because this one might actually happen.

I believe this has been discussed in this thread, I think the guys name is John Jakes, and his group left Utah

and they are building limestone temples on a compound in Texas....very well could be another brewing Waco style thing sometime in the future.

And ofcourse not to forget the "Jeff's clan"....... (I know... its the WashingtonTimes instead of the WashingtonPost... but not less true this time...)

www.washtimes.com...
Some fear a Branch Davidian fate for polygamy clan
November 27, 2005

DENVER -- Pueblo County sheriff's deputies pulled over a Ford Excursion weaving on U.S. Highway 50 last month and found more than a suspected drunken driver.

In the back of the vehicle was Seth Steed Jeffs, younger brother of Warren Steed Jeffs, the iron-fisted leader of the Jeffs' polygamy clan wanted by state and federal authorities for purportedly arranging the marriages of underage girls to older, married men.

With Mr. Jeffs were items likely intended for his brother, including $142,000 in cash in envelopes addressed to the fugitive; prepaid phone cards; debit cards; seven cell phones; and a donation jar with Warren Jeffs' photo labeled "Pennies for the Prophet."

It was a huge break in the manhunt for Warren Jeffs, 49, who disappeared months before an Arizona grand jury indicted him in June on charges of sexual misconduct with a minor. The president and prophet of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also is wanted by the FBI for sexual conduct with a minor, conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor and unlawful flight from prosecution.

Deputies searching the vehicle also found Warren Jeffs' personal tax documents and letters addressed to him. Then they found something not usually associated with the strict polygamous sect: At the wheel was a 27-year-old man who claimed Seth Jeffs paid him $5,000 for sex.

Seth Jeffs, 32, was charged Nov. 17 in U.S. District Court in Denver with harboring a fugitive. He also was cited by the Pueblo County Sheriff's Office for soliciting a prostitute. He was released on $25,000 bond and is scheduled to face trial Jan. 9 in Denver. Seth Jeffs has refused to divulge the whereabouts of his brother, telling the FBI that it would be "stupid to tell anyone where he is, because he would get caught."

The arrest occurred during a time of upheaval in the prosperous but secretive Jeffs clan. In 2002, Warren Jeffs became the prophet after the death of his 92-year-old father, Rulon Jeffs, and immediately began consolidating his rule. He excommunicated longtime members and assigned their wives and children to other men. He instructed followers to rely on his teachings and not the Bible, and banned virtually all contact with the outside world.

After living in the adjacent communities of Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah, for more than 70 years, the clan now is being relocated to Eldorado, Texas. About half of its estimated 10,000 members have moved to Eldorado to construct a community eerily reminiscent of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas.

"[Warren] is getting more extreme every day, more fanatical," said Pennie Petersen, who left the Jeffs clan 20 years ago, but whose sister remains a follower. "He's secluding the people, pulling them closer. This could end up as some kind of Waco deal."

The Branch Davidians, a religious sect led by self-styled prophet David Koresh, set up a compound in Waco, where more than 70 members perished during a siege by federal agents in April 1993 after a 51-day standoff.

Sorry for not replying the last few days, but I was disconnected from the internet by the German Telekom. My status of unemployment has also been canceled for reasons unknown to me at the moment.
I have to assume that a political/bureaucratic war of opinions has just broken loose about me and my stay here in Germany. This might even have to do with my connection to ATS. I know that some of my predictions that I have made in the past 25 years of the future outcome of politics here in Europe have upset many people in the past.
I'll post some more information about it asap.

Peter Paul
P.S. Please be patient. I have to catch up on all your posts since last Friday.

"This might even have to do with my connection to ATS."

dude, you registered two weeks ago

chill

Originally posted by LDragonFire
very well could be another brewing Waco style thing sometime in the future.

Well then Titor lied. He specifically said 2005, then said he missed a key and meant 2004. He never said anything about WACO events in 2006.

I say 2006, because we are headed to the middle of December, and if this story expands, it's going to happen in '06.

-Chris

I would think if even you said it was 2006 or not this thread leading to its topic will be locked as of January of 2006.

so


how is the american civil war of 2004 as predicted by john titor going ?


oh, wait, I forgot, it might be so small no one knows about it, or it might really mean gang wars, riots in france or the war in Iraq.

but it we are using JT's own definition of combat between organized groups, has anyone seen this occuring ?

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
but it we are using JT's own definition of combat between organized groups, has anyone seen this occuring ?

Link please? John Titor never said the combat between organized groups would start in 2004. He said that the (roots of) the civil war would start in 2004. Not the organized groups in combat.

So if you could give me a link where he specifically said that the organized groups in combat would begin in 2004 (please also provide me the exact month!) I would be very interested!

Roth.

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Link please? John Titor never said the combat between organized groups would start in 2004. He said that the (roots of) the civil war would start in 2004. Not the organized groups in combat.

So if you could give me a link where he specifically said that the organized groups in combat would begin in 2004 (please also provide me the exact month!) I would be very interested!

**
((8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???))

It's 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant � we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict. The first U.S. civil war lasted 4 years and the English civil war lasted 6. How long is too long?
**

Why would he define war as a conflict where organize groups engage and maneuver in armed coflict in the same breath as he stated when the civil war would start if he wasn't talking about the civil war?
He says the war starts in 2004
He then defines what war is

Waco was also oraganized groups engaging in armed conflict and he said the war would start as Waco type events.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
or
johntitor.com...

(plus some FAQs nobody cared to ask)
(including some answers my psychiatrist didn't care to listen too)

I was about to reply to some of the posts here at ATS on last Friday (2.Dec. 2005), when I suddenly realized that I had been disconnected from the internet by my provider the Deutsche Telekom. So I have been spending the last fews days trying to understand the reasons why.
A few days later I got a letter from my Health Insurance Company (DAK) that they received notification from the German Unemployment Office (ARGE) stating that I no longer receive any financial support. I don't know who made this final decision nor the true reasons for trying to get rid of me in such a manner, but it now appears to me that some high level decision has been made to try and silence me.

What is now happening to me is what has been happening to many others before. Not only here in Germany but all over the world. Even in the US and Canada. So the bad news of wars to come has now reached my doorstep. And it's going to get worse for many of us.
--------------------------------------
On Saturday the German Minister of Interior Affairs officially anounced it's newest laws. The authorities are now allowed to gather all telephone and internet and email connections without warrant and keep them in a database up to 6 months. Copy and save. Big deal. I've got the software that can even prove that they have been monitoring me for years. And they know it because I gave it to them in writing in 1999. I even got an answer stating that it can't be proven and that I'm "not supposed to care about it". Great. Thanks for letting me know that you want me to believe that you have no idea why you paid me to study what computers are for and why I worked for you. Well now I at least have it in writing that the highest authorities get paid to tell grown up people the nicest fairy tales since Robert Lewis Stephanson.
Or was that Lewis Carrol, The hunting of the snark? Right, I'm not quite up to date. It was just after Lord of the Gringos, starring Harry Plotter and Lewis Harmstrong in "Calypso now or beat it". Wait a minute! Someone messed up my databases.....

Well if you think Jon Titor doesn't apply to you, it sure applies to me....
Peter Paul

Hide you're data out of you're house. Keep them safe if they go at you're home and steal them. Good Luck peterpaul and continue the resistance against those fascist!!

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Link please? John Titor never said the combat between organized groups would start in 2004. He said that the (roots of) the civil war would start in 2004. Not the organized groups in combat.

So if you could give me a link where he specifically said that the organized groups in combat would begin in 2004 (please also provide me the exact month!) I would be very interested!

**
((8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???))

It's 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant � we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict. The first U.S. civil war lasted 4 years and the English civil war lasted 6. How long is too long?
**

Why would he define war as a conflict where organize groups engage and maneuver in armed coflict in the same breath as he stated when the civil war would start if he wasn't talking about the civil war?
He says the war starts in 2004
He then defines what war is

Waco was also oraganized groups engaging in armed conflict and he said the war would start as Waco type events.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
or
johntitor.com...

Exactly my point!

So there it is: Titor did NOT say the war would start in January 2004 or any other month of that year. He simply stated the year 2004. In my previous posts I make clear how it all started late 2004.

Furthermore he provides a definition of how that war would be remembered! He did NOT say the "organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict" would start in 2004.

WACO children with their parents an organized group engaging in armed conflict? Don't make me laugh. That is totally absurd!

Now here comes the interesting part. If I would have to tell you in a short sentence what World War II was about, I would probably do it in the same style of Titor:

((Roth says the second World War which starts in 1937 or 1938 (depending on the post) will end in 1945. ( So we have a SEVEN YEAR World War???))

It's 1937. I apologize for a missed key (very observant - we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where two great nations engage in armed and global conflict.

It is a mistake to give anyone your unwavering belief...but you will find that out yourself in 1938.

My goal is not to be believed. Most people do not take news of the war very well but I find that everyone believes it's inevitable.

en.wikipedia.org...
A debated starting date
On which date World War II started is a debated subject; historians do not all agree on which event signified the start of the war. The most common date used is 1 September 1939, marking the German invasion of Poland which resulted in the British and French declarations of war two days later. Other candidates include the Japanese invasion of China on 7 July 1937 (the start of the Second Sino-Japanese War) or the entry of Hitler's armies to Prague in March 1939. Some historians argue that the Italian occupation of Ethiopia (The Second Italo-Abyssinian War) which lasted seven months in 1935-1936 was the actual start of World War II. There are some historians that argue the war started on the start of the Manchurian Incident on 18 September 1931.

[edit on 9-12-2005 by Roth Joint]

For Peter Paul:

"In my experience, evil may be powerful, but they aren't very bright."

I am sure you will have a friend that will help you out.

"The word is still mightier then the sword."

Roth.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Hide you're data out of you're house. Keep them safe if they go at you're home and steal them. Good Luck peterpaul and continue the resistance against those fascist!!

Thanks for the tip Vitchillo, but I don't think that will work, because I did quite the contrary. I took the information the Unemployment Office didn't know about me, wrote it down on two pages and handed it over to them last October the 25th. I even told them a little more about it too. That was it.
I think it sort of "nuked" them silly. It has to do with personal data security. Now they can do nothing about it without breaking the law that they are supposed to work for and keep. And since I've worked internationaly my name is on file everywhere I ever had a job. Much of it was very confidential and that is exactly how I handle it. I can assure you that there was nothing illegal about it, but business contracts and projects belong to the companies and that is where the information still is. So in that case I have nothing to hide from anybody.
Now kicking me out of the Unemployment Office won't help them either, because that triggers off something else. Something I would call worse case. They forced me to tell them why I can't get a job and all I did was tell them the truth. Anyway they want to handle it now will inevetibly get them into trouble, but not with me. It is the companies I used to work for that can.

You know there is something very funny about the truth. You can hide ist behind a thousand lies and then - all of a sudden it pops up out of nowhere and when least expected. Just like John Titor.
Cheers
Peter Paul

uhm, whoever titor is, i would really appreciate if titor would come to my house and teach me everything he knows about physics and everything he knows about anything. you see, i have problems in my physics class because i'm not satisfied with the knowledge i get from my teacher. i can't blame him. every man has his own capabilities. if my teacher's performance is poor so be it. so, john titor, if you see this post, reply ASAP and i will give you my location. go here immediately. i would gladly help you in your work.

about the civil war, i don't think the predictions of john is correct. only for now. maybe it will happen some time later. if the predictions are indeed wrong, then its time for another prediction. maybe by card readers or anyone who has abilities to see the future. by time travel or psychic powers. one last thing, if there will be a war, its ok, i won't die anyway. i told my teacher that i am god and i will eat him. bye dudes....

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Exactly my point!

So there it is: Titor did NOT say the war would start in January 2004 or any other month of that year. He simply stated the year 2004. In my previous posts I make clear how it all started late 2004.

He said there would be a Waco type event each month. If he meant only certain months, then why didn't he say so?
And you make nothing clear in your previous posts. There were no Waco type events or any Civil Wars in 2004 or you would have heard about it.

Furthermore he provides a definition of how that war would be remembered! He did NOT say the "organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict" would start in 2004.

Stop it Roth. You're trying to twist words again. Not once did he say war would be rememberd like that, he said the war WAS that. Period. You do this all the time, trying to twist his words into yours.
Again, he said the WAR would start in 2004.
He defined WAR as organized groups engaging and maneuvering in armed conflict.
Period. You can't get around that.

WACO children with their parents an organized group engaging in armed conflict? Don't make me laugh. That is totally absurd!

Your limited knowledge of what happened at Waco is starting to make you look bad.

I'm curious....how did those ATF officers die?


You blabbing about WW2 is doing nothing to further your argument. Titor was supposedly from the the future and lived and fought in the war. What makes you think you know when the war started better than him?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Exactly my point!

So there it is: Titor did NOT say the war would start in January 2004 or any other month of that year. He simply stated the year 2004. In my previous posts I make clear how it all started late 2004.

He said there would be a Waco type event each month. If he meant only certain months, then why didn't he say so?
And you make nothing clear in your previous posts. There were no Waco type events or any Civil Wars in 2004 or you would have heard about it.

There were WACO-type taser deaths starting out as isolated, monthly cases as covered by the media in 2004 and are growing worse into the civil war exactly as Titor "predicted" it.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Furthermore he provides a definition of how that war would be remembered! He did NOT say the "organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict" would start in 2004.

Stop it Roth. You're trying to twist words again. Not once did he say war would be rememberd like that, he said the war WAS that. Period. You do this all the time, trying to twist his words into yours.
Again, he said the WAR would start in 2004.
He defined WAR as organized groups engaging and maneuvering in armed conflict.
Period. You can't get around that.

No need to get around anything, you are simply wrong. As clearly outlined in my previous posts, putting every piece of the puzzle together, Titor meant that we would grow into a second civil war and indeed starting in 2004, not as "organized groups in combat" but as WACO-type events (taser deaths).

Furthermore as Titor firstly mentioned the civil war starting as "WACO-type events" it wouldn't make any sense to provide a definition of those "WACO-type events" as "organized groups" a month later. Clearly Titor makes a distinction between those 2 concepts.

Titor made it very clear that he referred to WACO because of the misbehavior of law enforcement using so called 'non-lethal' weapons, leading to the deaths of at least 17 defenseless children and their parents.

Speaking of misbehavior:

www.allheadlinenews.com...
Police Hit Grandmother Five Times With Taser Gun
December 8, 2005

Franklin, OH - Police in Columbus, Ohio hit a 68-year-old grandmother with a Taser gun five times for trying to leave the police station. Beverly Kidwell, 68, was arrested for hitting her granddaughter. She was in the waiting room of the station when the incident occurred, police said.

Kidwell said she had been waiting for a long time and got up to leave. She was then hit with the Taser. "I don't know if he thought I was going to get up and leave or what, but he pulled his gun. I thought it was a gun. I'd never seen a Taser gun in my life and I thought, 'Oh my God. He's going to shoot me. He's going to kill me," Kidwell said.

The police lieutenant in the case said he is the victim, reports WCMH. He adds that she was resisting arrest. Kidwell alleges that the officer ordered her to get up and continued to shock her, even after she was lying immobilized on the floor. Kidwell was taken to an area hospital.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
WACO children with their parents an organized group engaging in armed conflict? Don't make me laugh. That is totally absurd!

Your limited knowledge of what happened at Waco is starting to make you look bad.

I'm curious....how did those ATF officers die?

Well, we can rule out the children and their parents, can we? So that means around 75 people who did NOT shoot at all.

Let me see, was David Koresh attacking those ATF officers or was he defending himself?

archives.cnn.com...
An audiotape of a Branch Davidian's panicked 911 call saying the compound was under attack by federal agents was played in court Wednesday on the third day of a $675 million wrongful-death lawsuit against the government.

Wayne Martin was also heard saying women and children were in the compound, called Mount Carmel, which the Christian apocalyptic sect called home. "I have a right to defend myself. They started shooting first," Martin yelled on the tape as gunfire popped in the background.

Six Branch Davidians and four federal agents were killed in the raid, which led to a 51-day standoff between sect members and the FBI.

Now let me get this straight, who was behind the fire and what was the cause of the fire taking the lives of around 75 innocent and defenseless children and their parents?

archives.cnn.com...
The standoff ended on April 19, 1993 when the FBI tear-gassed the wooden complex outside Waco and a fire engulfed the building. Some 80 Branch Davidians died either in the fire or from gunfire.

The government's actions at Waco are at issue in the wrongful-death lawsuit, which is expected to last about a month. The plaintiffs -- surviving Davidians and relatives of those who died -- are challenging the government's conclusion that the cult members started the fire and shot first during the raid.

On the 911 tape, Wayne Martin is yelling into a speakerphone to McLennan County Sheriff's Lt. Larry Lynch. Other sheriff's officials expressed frustration that they could not contact agents on the scene. "No one is responding to the damn radio," one official was heard saying.

Wayne Martin died on April 19, 1993. His widow, Sheila Martin, who also lost four children in the fire, was in the courtroom Wednesday.

On that day, FBI tanks dropped tear-gas canisters into the compound in a bid to flush out the Branch Davidians. Sect members and the families say the canisters, which heated up in order to release the gas, caused the fires that engulfed the compound.

The government says the fire was set by the Branch Davidians, who were under orders from their leader, David Koresh, to die rather than surrender.

Given the way the Government lied about its later use of incendiary devices (and the Justice Department denying eyewitness reports for 6 years! of what it now admits is true), should anyone believe the official story from the Government?

I'd rather believe the survivors: "the canisters, which heated up in order to release the gas, caused the fires that engulfed the compound."

Clearly no "organized group in combat." Period.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You blabbing about WW2 is doing nothing to further your argument. Titor was supposedly from the the future and lived and fought in the war. What makes you think you know when the war started better than him?

You can't get around it, can you? I provided you an indisputable example of how Titor did NOT mean that the civil war would start in 2004 as "organized groups engaging in manoeuvre and armed conflict."

As can be derived from ALL of Titor's quotes, those groups would develop later on.

Again:

It's 1937. I apologize for a missed key (very observant - we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where two great nations engage in armed and global conflict.

Can you see how I can give you a definition of World War II in Titor style without it happening that way in 1937 but later on? We all know the US only entered the conflict in December of 1941 after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Yet, I have given you a clear and simplefied definition of what would commonly be remembered as World War II.

[edit on 9-12-2005 by Roth Joint]

What's the motto of ATS Roth?

Since you don't know anything about ATS outside this thread, I'll tell you. It's to "DENY Ignorance".
Do you know what that means Roth?

It means to stop embracing ignorance. When the truth is there, don't continue to persue lies. Embrace the truth even though it may be against your belief system. It's unhealthy to know the truth but to keep denying it, just because it's not what you want to hear.

I mean seriously, take a look at your posts. You can't possibly be serious.

I'm laughing because I know you're not serious, if you were serious.....I'd seriosuly be crying. I'm a firm believer that humans are able to grasp simple concepts. You'd be shaking that belief if you were serious.


Just for ..... and giggles let's look at your latest masterpiece.

Originally posted by Roth Joint
There were WACO-type taser deaths starting out as isolated, monthly cases as covered by the media in 2004 and are growing worse into the civil war exactly as Titor "predicted" it.

lmao
1. "Waco-type taser deaths"?
Tanks, guns, fire > taser

2. Taser incidents have been happening sporadically since the '90s. Not 2004.

3. Titor not once mentions tasers. If taser are such a central part of the Civil War, then why in the world didn't he mention them?

4. Thousands of people have been shot to death by police officers. THOUSANDS. In the US alone. In the past decade the total deaths from tasers is just over 100 in North America. Now, what makes you think that the use of deadly force that has been going on for decades won't cause a civil war, but a few incidents in which the only people who die are people high on drugs or have heart problems will cause a Civil War?

Titor made it very clear that he referred to WACO because of the misbehavior of law enforcement using so called 'non-lethal' weapons, leading to the deaths of 25 defenseless children and their parents.

Since when are guns and tanks considered "non-lethal"?



vs.

Well, we can rule out the children and their parents, can we? So that means 75 people who did not shoot at all.

Let me see, was David Koresh attacking those ATF officers or was he defending himself?

Clearly no "organized group in combat." Period.

The branch davidians weren't a group?

Do you even know how it all started? The ATF had arrest and search warrants for David, his people, and compound and were delivering them. Why? Because of the illegal weapons and explosives they had. Now if they had just cooperated and obeyed the law, what do you think would have happened?


Again, I still don't believe you're actually serious.
You still haven't answered the question of why you want this civil war to take place so bad that you go as far as to make stuff up and twist people's words just so you'll be right. It doesn't make sense. You bet someone or something?
Here we are. 2006. Halfway to 2008 when the war will have spread across the most powerful nation on earth. Yet...nothing on the news about it. I've traveled across the US this year and the only sign of a civil war I saw was.....well....nothing. There were no signs. How do you explain that? If it started in 2004 (even late 2004) and was supposed to get progressively worse, then you definately would have heard something by now.

Originally posted by Roth Joint
For Peter Paul:
"In my experience, evil may be powerful, but they aren't very bright."
I am sure you will have a friend that will help you out.
"The word is still mightier then the sword."
Roth.

For these very few words you have passed on to me I will only request the following: may the one and only that has led me to this site give you the true insight and true understanding needed to make sure you needn't waste time nor energy upon those that are trying to distract you from your path of understanding. For those who see and know have no need to battle the blind and unknowing. Learn to protect those that have not yet the knowledge and the light to protect themseslves. They have no sword to protect themselves and that is what they are complaining about.
I would like to invite you to Germany and show you what you might like to see and know. I am sure if you had a chance to do so, that no man would ever challenge you in such a humilitaing way as I have to read on this thread.

If your looking for a way to understand, let's see if there is a way
Peter Paul