just please, everyone think long and hard about this. Picture America at it's worst point right now, and do you feel that it qualifies as even close to being a civil war? And yes i do speak for my blue state that i live in when i say NO ONE WANTS A CIVIL WAR! The US citizens didn't even want the Iraqi War when they found out the truth, do you really believe that we are going to go into a war with our own selves. People LOVE this country, to an extreme, no one is complaining about the lack of freedom, just some people are worried that the government may get too strict! This isn't England where you have Camera's all over the place, there are no camera's on the streets, we are not even close to becoming a dictatorship, or a totalitarian state. There will be NO marshall law in the United States, not even if we have another terrorist attack, unless of course it last for like a week. We are too damn free for any of that to happen, this is getting so annoying. Who ever thinks the US is in a civil war state now, or will be in 3 years is, quite frankly, living in a fantasy world. You need a reality check!

IC do you really think that worst stuff than what you have mentioned hasn't happened in YOUR country. Or in other countries around the world? Do you honestly believe that stuff is isolated to America?
Do you honestly think that in a country of 300 million people stuff like this isn't going to happen? Do you really believe that?
If you do, you're in a serious need of a reality check. This is the real world man. Nothing is perfect. It does not in any way shape or form show that we are living in a police state. Get that in your head.

And if you must know, I'm a democrat. You know, the "liberal" party you speak so highly of. I didn't answer because it was irrelevant then and it's irrelevant now. Nothing I said indicated I support Bush.
You'd be surprised at how many liberals don't believe we're in a police state (probably a 90+% majority). Just because we don't believe that doesn't mean we support Bush. It just means we're smart (I wish I could say the same for you).

*
Good post Ryanp

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
IC do you really think that worst stuff than what you have mentioned hasn't happened in YOUR country. Or in other countries around the world? Do you honestly believe that stuff is isolated to America?
Do you honestly think that in a country of 300 million people stuff like this isn't going to happen? Do you really believe that?
If you do, you're in a serious need of a reality check. This is the real world man. Nothing is perfect. It does not in any way shape or form show that we are living in a police state. Get that in your head.

So, because America is a bigger country, somebody innocent getting stunned, tasered or shot nearly everyday or some people getting interrogated by the FBI frequently, is excusable?

I will give you all the time you need to show any military operations burning down dozens of women, children and men alive, has happened in my country, UK and not been dealt with.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
IC do you really think that worst stuff than what you have mentioned hasn't happened in YOUR country. Or in other countries around the world? Do you honestly believe that stuff is isolated to America?
Do you honestly think that in a country of 300 million people stuff like this isn't going to happen? Do you really believe that?
If you do, you're in a serious need of a reality check. This is the real world man. Nothing is perfect. It does not in any way shape or form show that we are living in a police state. Get that in your head.

So, because America is a bigger country, somebody innocent getting stunned, tasered or shot nearly everyday or some people getting interrogated by the FBI frequently, is excusable?

I will give you all the time you need to show any military operations burning down dozens of women, children and men alive, has happened in my country, UK and not been dealt with.

Shall we include Ireland in this? Also, I think his point was that stuff like that happens everywhere. When you have 300 million people, even just .05% of the population being wacko is a large number. Also, the reason those things make the news is because they are unusual. If they were commonplace, they wouldn't make the news.

I have no idea why you hate the US so much and I doubt that you do, either.

It's sad, really, that you can preach hate against the US and call it something else.

As for Titor, like I have said elsewhere, his predictions (wrongly titled, since he came from the future they should be recollections) are crap. They are based on a few different sci-fi works and a left leaning preference. It's a great hoax just like Aussie Bloke was a great hoax.

There will be no big civil wars in the united states. We get along too well as a whole. We we start to get mad at each other, we take a breather or change topics. Only the most unbalanced individual on either side of the political spectrum would dream of taking up arms against fellow americans en masse. You are seeing an America that, quite frankly, doesn't exist.

Go ahead and call me a sheep and tell me that I have no idea what is going on around me.

IC, when John Titor was talking about half the population dying, he means the whole world's population, not just America's.

Though I agree what you said about John Titor, I take offense to things you said about America and its people.

-Chris

He has never even visited America and said he never would, yet he believes he's qualified to judge us. And he thinks he knows what's going on, while we who live here don't. All based on what he reads off the internet.
How sad...

i dunno, i think the boston massacre speaks for itself, along with all the otherways the UK has mistreated different colonies and such.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
just please, everyone think long and hard about this. Picture America at it's worst point right now, and do you feel that it qualifies as even close to being a civil war? And yes i do speak for my blue state that i live in when i say NO ONE WANTS A CIVIL WAR! The US citizens didn't even want the Iraqi War when they found out the truth, do you really believe that we are going to go into a war with our own selves. People LOVE this country, to an extreme, no one is complaining about the lack of freedom, just some people are worried that the government may get too strict! This isn't England where you have Camera's all over the place, there are no camera's on the streets, we are not even close to becoming a dictatorship, or a totalitarian state. There will be NO marshall law in the United States, not even if we have another terrorist attack, unless of course it last for like a week. We are too damn free for any of that to happen, this is getting so annoying. Who ever thinks the US is in a civil war state now, or will be in 3 years is, quite frankly, living in a fantasy world. You need a reality check!

You're right Ryan. No one in blue America is the least bit angry that our right-wing boomer political elite and their Democrat enablers are driving this country into bankruptcy, decimating our civil liberties, rolling back free speech, destroying our traditional alliances, shredding the last strands of the social safety net, selling off Washington to the worst corporate special interests, selling out the middle class and working people, leading us into costly and unnecessary wars, behaving with craven irresponsibility on matters of global and civilizational importance (from global warming to the world court to land mines to the ABM treaty), not to mention *disappearing* and *torturing* people to death.

If you want to hack for the right-wing bullies and monsters running this government, at the very little don't pretend to speak for the rest of us.

Cheers.

[edit on 16-3-2005 by greenturtle]

excuse me but i never said that liberals don't have complaints with the government, HOWEVER there are absolutely NO RATIONAL liberals who would want, or are thinking of starting a civil war. END OF STORY. I SPEAK FOR ALL LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES WHO HAVE AN OUNCE OF RATIONAL THOUGHT IN THEIR MINDS!

Good Day Sir.

what would make you fight against the government? if the government started to round people up?? or declared martial law??

Looking back at the stuff that set off our forefathers if they were alive now they would have already drafted some sort of declaration.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
NO RATIONAL liberals who would want, or are thinking of starting a civil war. END OF STORY. I SPEAK FOR ALL LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES WHO HAVE AN OUNCE OF RATIONAL THOUGHT IN THEIR MINDS!

You are speaking for yourself. Bauldrilard says that the most efficient way to change a system is to revolt against it. I agree with him.

As do I with my forefathers who revolted against the oppresive british government. Remember that entire American Revolution thing?

Would you not call them rational liberals?

Revolution is as American as apple pie.

Originally posted by Simulacra

Would you not call them rational liberals?

Revolution is as American as apple pie.

Nope, I'd call them rational conservatives. They felt that they had a right to exercise personal responsibility without interference from the government. They wanted to worship God as they saw fit, not in line with some of the changes being made in the Church of England. They wanted freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM it.

Now, here is an interesting thing, does anyone know what the founding fathers' prophecies or predictions about thier country was?

Thanks Green and Simulacra. So TJS and Ryan, take mine, green and Simulacra opinions, as well as others on this forum oops, eastcoat kid, infinite(also British) soficrow and many others. We are not making comments like "I can see the whitehouse outside of my window, therefore I would be the first to know if we were a police state" most of us are even ready for a civil war.

You really are speaking for yourself when you say there will not be a civil war or there is not a sizable minority that are quite simply pissed off and want their freedom back. Open your eyes, there a lot of people in your country who are ready to fight for their freedom.

Accept it now and don't be surprised later. By accepting it, you are not agreeing with blues/liberals you're simply seeing that they are there. You are seeing that there is a problem - there is an enemy. If you are the Bush supporters, then you are their enemy, and they, yours. So as long as you support and encourage the tyranny, you may just come in the line of fire of the blues.

You might not recognise that there is a movement, but eventually you will be affected by it. As Titor said, by 2008 everybody will be affected by it.

[edit on 19-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

I'm not sure why you're not getting this through your head, but he also said that it WOULD NOT be a war against Democrat vs. Republican.

(on a side note, the blue state vs. red state thing is bunk. There may be just one or two states that are truley blue. The rest of the "blue" states are only blue around huge population centers)

Thanks Green and Simulacra. So TJS and Ryan, take mine, green and Simulacra opinions, as well as others on this forum oops, eastcoat kid, infinite(also British) soficrow and many others. We are not making comments like "I can see the whitehouse outside of my window, therefore I would be the first to know if we were a police state" most of us are even ready for a civil war.

Quite frankly, I don't care what your opinions are. Because they're just that. Opinions.
It's like you trying to convince me that it's cold outside, when it's 80 degrees. Not matter how many times you say "it's cold", it's still not going to make it cold.

btw, you don't think the Nation's capitol would be on lockdown if we were in a civil war/police state?

You really are speaking for yourself when you say there will not be a civil war

I'm not speaking for anyone. I'm stating fact. There is no way that a civil war will pop up out of the blue without the majority of this country and our military being devastated first. There is no way that a civil war will pop up out of the blue as our quality of life is just too great right now. There is no way people will give up their lifestyle just like that. Or fire on and actually kill their neighbors just like that. There is no way that a civil war will pop up out of the blue as there are no boundaries at all that would seperate enemy for ally.
These are facts.

Open your eyes, there a lot of people in your country who are ready to fight for their freedom.

Including me. I would fight in a heartbeat if our freedom was threatened.
This is the case in every country including yours.

But having a civil war against our government is not an effective way to bring about change.
1. You will not win.
2. Once you are defeated, what do you think will happen? The exact opposite of what you were fighting for.
3. Even if you do win. Do you honestly think this country would be better? Our country will never be the same should we fall into civil war now. We'd be trillions of dollars more in dept. Our infastructure would be devastated. Millions of people would be dead, etc. The US would not be able to recover. And that's just with the civil war! Add a nuclear war on top of that.
I know Titor paints a picture of stuff getting better especially tech wise (as they are now able to make time machines), but that's definately not reality (especially not in just 30 years).

You really are speaking for yourself when you say there will not be a civil war

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I'm not speaking for anyone. I'm stating fact. There is no way that a civil war will pop up out of the blue without the majority of this country and our military being devastated first. There is no way that a civil war will pop up out of the blue as our quality of life is just too great right now. There is no way people will give up their lifestyle just like that. Or fire on and actually kill their neighbors just like that. There is no way that a civil war will pop up out of the blue as there are no boundaries at all that would seperate enemy for ally.
These are facts.

Lets be fair here. How can our post be opinions when yours can be fact?. I would venture to say that any prediction about the future state of America would simply be an opinion, not a fact.

Lets be fair here. How can our post be opinions when yours can be fact?

Duh, because he can see the white house out of his window and everythings seems fine and dandy

Indigo_Child, I just read through this thread again (and your "Channelling RA Zoroastria" thread) and my advice is this: Relax, friend.

In your other thread, you are humbly asking for advice. In this thread, you are making such statements as:

apathetic(and pathetic), irresponsible and sheep-minded you Americans are. [...] What a pathetic excuse for a human.
[...]
you're mindless sheep, and Titor is right, half of you should be dead.
[...]
To put very simply, you are pathetic excuses for humans, and you quite simply suck.

...Now, when a person is humble and seeking in one thread, but vitriolic and hateful in another, it's an indication of some kind of imbalance. There is nothing Christ-like about what you are saying here.

You recall, of course, that Titor was not speaking to Americans, he was speaking to EVERYONE alive on Earth when he said "The future does not like you." That means you because you are alive right now on the very Earth which JT condemned. Do you want half of the people you love to die in a nuclear war, because that's what JT wanted.

As for the atrocities of our "Police State" in America, I'll be the first one to condemn the shadow government that runs our country, but you must understand that most Americans are unaware of the shadow government or its existence. They simply cannot conceive it. Therefore, when they look at Bush I or II or Clinton, they do not see evil demons, they see men wearing the halo of the American Constitution. It is the OFFICE of the President which causes American soldiers to follow the orders given, not the man who happens to hold that office. When these soldiers learn that the executive office has been hijacked, you will see a massive response beginning with a large-scale turning-off of American television sets.

I will also add that this shadow government is world-wide, including Europe or wherever it is that you live. As history shows, corruption and vilness tend to lurk in the halls of power. It has always been so. Police-thuggery and similar evil from anyone who is polarized toward Service-to-Self happens not only in America, it happens everywhere. It happens in Iraq (both before and after the war). It happens in China. It happens in Sweden. It happens inside Catholic orphanages around the world where kids are tortured by nuns and priests and it happens in Muslim countries where women are treated like cattle. By isolating America, you aren't helping anyone gain a better picture of such atrocities or their nature. You also aren't suggesting any kind of solution if your only solution is civil war in America. That will not help ANYBODY on earth, I assure you.

Administrations come and go, but your lack of faith in us 250 million Americans as a people is a sign of spiritual blindness. Even if the administrative offices have been hijacked, Americans do not know this yet, so how can you condemn us so quickly? I advise you to have the patience of Christ, who died on a cross KNOWING that the next 2000 years would be like this. Christ was patient enough to endure all of this silliness before the situation was to be sorted out so why can't you be patient for at least a decade or so? It takes time for pus to emerge from a wound, and it will take time before Americans see the true nature of their elected officials.



[edit on 20-3-2005 by smallpeeps]

Small Peeps,

Small peeps, that is exactly it. I am not like Christ. I am very intolerant when it comes to stupidity, apathy and ignorance. I cannot be a selfless saint, even if I wanted it. At not least not yet - not today - not at this moment. I certainly do not espouse teachings like "turn the other cheek" perhaps one day I will appreciate this. Just not now. Not today. Not at the time where we are about to go through absolute hell.

What I am doing here is pointing out the root of this NWO. I am showing you what has made the NWO. The NWO is actually a societal system - a very old societal system in that. That is maintained by collective ignorance and hate. That is why the people are accountable.

I am simply making an observation, not a judgement when I say US society is full of mindless and stupid sheep. It is full of mindless and stupid sheep. It is full of people who allow their government to burn down their own innocent women, children and men. It is full of people who allow their government to invade sovereign countries using their own tax paying dollars.

Americans, if they still want to, can end this right now. We don't have to go into a world war for nothing. Yet, American pride is supporting these wars.

I have seen so many Americans beat the drums of war at home. So, there should be no question of them not being innocent. As always we displace blame onto others. We never own our own problem.

The NWO is not the creation of "some" it is our creation. We are responsible. Everything is just a manifestation of the collective consciousness. Remember the part in the channeling about the NWO being a chakravu. Society itself are the lifeless walls of this Chakravu.

How can you break entry into the Chakravu, without breaking down those walls on your path in? Truth is the path in, as was said. And the truth really does mean recognising that society are the walls and are your entrapment.
Can you ever respect something that traps you? Makes like difficult for you.

The NWO only exists - because people support it. Now, tell me, how do you respect people who support NWO's? I can't do it.

Now in America I see a lot of immortality, debauchery, crime, ignorance, arrogance. I see a demonized society. They are responsible for what is happening in their country.

Just like the Nazi Germans were responsible for allowing Hitler to come to power. They were cheering him on, did you know? And I'm just human, but I say anyone who cheers on criminals, "sucks" to use modern lingo.

I am a very brutally honest person. I don't pretend to be someone I am not. I don't sugar-coat what I am going to say. I don't do politics. I say what is the truth.

And the truth is, the majority of Americans "suck" they are worthless humans and because of what they are doing to their country, there will be a civil war. There will be world wars. And when 3-4 billion are dead and the surviors are having to drink poisoned water and live brutal lives, and if you happen to be one of them. Which I hope you are(the opposite is being dead) then you will look back at those people and say yourself "You suck"

I have no compassion for such people. Maybe, it's after hearing so many Americans/Bush supporters views on this forum, that I have such a low view of most of them. Seriously, however, can you bring yourself to respect such people?

I am not sure which version of Jesus Christ stories are correct, as there are many. However, in the "temptation of Christ" Christ says "I wanted to kill them" when he saw the mob throwing rocks at Mary Madeline and I would not be surprised if he did think that.

When Jesus told Judas what his secret was, it was "I pity you"

Anyone honest and who respects god's creation and his Mother Earth, is going to react with anger, when he sees so many just completely walk over god's creation and hurt each other. I am only human. While, Jesus the saint he was, "pitied" I pity and also condemn.

By condemning, I am saying "this is wrong" please people do the "right" thing. Please, people, love one another. Please, people, form a united human family, don't segregate. Please, people, it's just common sense!

What is as stake here? Nothing? If Titor is right and we are heading for a world war. Which means all of us. Why? What is the reason?

Why are so many Americans supporting wars? What for? You either war or don't war. So why war? Why should thousands die? It seems the only answer is for the pride of people at home. Again, saying such people suck is to me not a judgement, but an observation.

I don't have faith in most Americans, but I do in some, and I think they will bring about a positive change in your society. The Nazi germans did not even fight against Hitler. At least there are Americans who are ready to fight. That is admirable.

For the record, I am not saying it is only America this problem exists in. It is nearly everywhere. It is a human problem. However, as we are talking about US in this topic and civil war there, that is why we are concentrating on America.

[edit on 20-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

When I first read the Titor story I didn't believe it. Now it is really starting to bother me.

I'm hoping this is some major hoax. People should be aware and prepared just in case.

Maybe, it's after hearing so many Americans/Bush supporters views on this forum, that I have such a low view of them. Seriously, however, can you bring yourself to respect such people[?]

I would answer in this way: It was not until the age of reason that we had any idea on what axis the Earth turned. It wasn't until the modern age, hundreds of years later that we had any understanding of how the human brain worked. Now, hundreds of years later, we are actually beginning to understand psychoanalysis as a science. This understanding of a simple thing like cognitive dissonance has taken centuries of work to accomplish. We now know that when a human is faced with an unpleasant truth, and is in a hopeless situation, their mind will scamper away into a place of safety, which means defending SkullnBones/Clinton, and falling into lock-step with the NWO.

Yes, I can cut those two-party loyalists some slack because I'm one of the first to wake up and I see that they are still asleep. Am I supporting the NWO if I do not judge those sleeping ones? Am I complicit in the PNACs quest for global hegemony if I suggest patience? No, because the NWO is supported by CASH (specifically taxation) and not votes. If I wanted to stop supporting the NWO, I would quit my job, go on a tax-strike and refuse to pay taxes or engage in any above-the-table work of any kind. I haven't done that, so I cannot give myself an absolution. Only my God can absolve me.

Imagine this: Let us say that there are 200,000 prisoners inside Dachau (the first Nazi concentration camp). It could be said that these 200,000 people had a huge opportunity to be HEROES because they could have done two things: (1) Made the Nazi final solution impossible or impractical by disobedience, hunger strikes and sabotage, and (2) stated loudly that no attempt by the Nazis to use slave labor to fuel their war machine would work. If those souls had sat on their hands or gummed up the working of the camp, yes, they would have been massacred, but non-cooperation would have severely affected the Nazi plans. Why did they capitulate by being sent obediently to the slaughter? What would have been the Nazi outlook on future death camps if Dachau had gone poorly with massive revolts and courageous disobedience? The Nazis used this camp as a model and went on to build many more and to use the camp labor to build bullets, shells and weapons of war. Clearly there would have been less bullets and shells if the prisoners had organized and made themselves into purposed martyrs.

My point is this: How could anyone expect the prisoners to do such a thing? Similarly, how can you expect Americans to revolt and give their lives up when human nature shows that ALL people will tolerate a horrible situation so long as there is a chance that THEY THEMSELVES will survive?

I'm not saying it's like Dachau in America, of course, but Americans DO feel a similar sense of powerlessness and futility when it comes to solving the divison in our country. At the same time, no Americans will engage in a tax-strike (which has historical precedence in America) because the giant boot of the NWO collection agency (the IRS) will put them in jail.

You can't ask people to be martyrs when they have no idea of the evil they face. Those people in Dachau told themselves, "Oh, this isn't so bad... I'll probably live through this." and they made a mistake. Similarly, Americans are telling themselves, "Oh, this isn't so bad, I'll probably live through this." and they are equally wrong, if things continue on the current path. I am suggesting that in the latter case, when the true nature of our elected leaders is made evident (which I believe it will be), then we Americans will react with the traditional disobedience that we're famous for. We will turn off our TVs and we will stop obeying the administrators. They will be replaced, but I do not think that we will shoot at each other in a civil war.