The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
can any of the titor supporters here answer 1 question honestly ?

Q: why do you beleive ?

The question should be turned, Why should you disbelieve?

We've seen Titors predictions come to light in several occasions over the past couple of years, we have on our table a reasonable amount of evidence and occurences (that can not be delegated to chance) that something is going on here.

Set aside the notion of Time Travel. Set aside the pictures, blueprints and videos that are still up for debate.

If a couple of years ago someone told you what was going to happen in the future and these predictions manifested, what is there left to prove?

Originally posted by Simulacra

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
can any of the titor supporters here answer 1 question honestly ?

Q: why do you beleive ?

The question should be turned, Why should you disbelieve?

We've seen Titors predictions come to light in several occasions over the past couple of years, we have on our table a reasonable amount of evidence and occurences (that can not be delegated to chance) that something is going on here.

Set aside the notion of Time Travel. Set aside the pictures, blueprints and videos that are still up for debate.

If a couple of years ago someone told you what was going to happen in the future and these predictions manifested, what is there left to prove?

very disappointing. I was hoping for an honest answer, not more argumentative postioning on who is right and why.



q: why do you beleive ?

Sphinx, I beleive you are intentionally or uninetentionally ignoring what he is saying, albeit indirectly. He has stated that there is quite of bit of evidense that would support the notion that JT was real. In the end there is enough evidense true, close to true, and arguably true for him to beleive that it is real. I suspect that the reverse is true, that there isn't enough "proved" yet for you to beleive in it yet. Right?

WHat do you think is the biggest evidense that JT was a "fake"? Is it some technical thing like Time Travel, or is it the hoakiness of it?

Cheers.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
The media would NEVER hide any armed conflicts between organized groups on our soil. Especially if our government is involved.
1. It's impossible.
2. It would be a ratings blockbuster. They would eat that up.

If they would know, yes they most certainly would. However, we now have Patriot Act II. It has changed everything. We all know that the federal police now has been given unconstitutional powers under Patriot Act II.

Interesting how John Titor could foresee this happening already in 2000. Let us consider a few of the powers of Patriot Act II (and thus the powers of the federal police):

Under Section 501 a US citizen engaging in lawful activities can be grabbed off the street and thrown into a van never to be seen again. The Justice Department states that they can do this because the person "had inferred from conduct" that they were not US citizens. Remember Section 802 of the First USA Patriot Act states that any violation of Federal or State law can result in the "enemy combatant" terrorist designation.

SECTION 201 of the second Patriot Act makes it a criminal act for any member of the government or any citizen to release any information concerning the incarceration or whereabouts of detainees. It also states that law enforcement does not have to tell the press who they have arrested, and they never have to release the names.

There you go Einstein II. You want to know what the federal police is doing to its US citizens? You want to know why the media isn't eating anything up? Because the juicy steakes are kept well hidden from them.

Roth:

1. None of what you wrote had anything to do with what I was talking about.

2. The PAII has NOT been passed.

3. Where in the world did you get your info from??

Originally posted by Passer By
Sphinx, I beleive you are intentionally or uninetentionally ignoring what he is saying, albeit indirectly. He has stated that there is quite of bit of evidense that would support the notion that JT was real. In the end there is enough evidense true, close to true, and arguably true for him to beleive that it is real. I suspect that the reverse is true, that there isn't enough "proved" yet for you to beleive in it yet. Right?

WHat do you think is the biggest evidense that JT was a "fake"? Is it some technical thing like Time Travel, or is it the hoakiness of it?

Cheers.

I guess for me its just the gut reaction, or sniff test. When I initially read the titor posts in the titor forum here, it was well before this thread was started. It just struck me as a very clever work of fiction. There are many levels on which the story doesn't pass muster for me. What first jumped out at me was the tone of the posts. They read to me like a parent warning a child, "if you continue to behave like this, bad things will happen" It all came together for me with the post that went like "in the future, you are all regarded as lazy" That to me was an insight into the motivation behind the posts.
How did people in 1970 view the people from 1940 who actually were involved in a world war that involved 2 hydrogen bombs being dropped ? Do we blame the citizens for being lazy or do we blame hitler and his madness ? He also posts how tired of war they all are. Well, the one constant in human history is war. The rape of nanking, holocaust, many many horrific events in human history never satiated our leaders lust for war. Citizens have always been tired of war, leaders never are. It feeds the rich while it buries the poor (sorry axl)
On another level, you have a culture that is ONLY 21 years removed from a nuclear holocaust, and they can't get their linux to run, but they can (or GE can) develop a time travel device that is portable, and can send you backwards and forwards in time ? And no nuclear winter or ecological disaster ? no ice age ?
On another level, if you can go back in time, wouldn't you use it for a higher purpose than an errand ? and if you were just picking up the groceries, wouldn't you brink back things that will have a bigger impact on your world than hardware ? Maybe something medical in nature, or vaccines ? wouldn't the military be more interested in getting weapons technology or uranium ?
On another level, if you know 4 billion people are going to die, don't you try to get on 60 minutes ? CNN? why go to an internet chat room ?

I could go on and on, but there seems to be a pathological need for some people to believe this story. They don't listen to reason. they stretch the truth to fit the mold, they are constantly scanning the news for anything waco-esque. I don't know, maybe so they can pound their chests and declare "I told you so !" when the american civil war starts, even though that will mean women and babies start dieing.

on another level, I noticed noone that believes has moved to canada like titor suggets. If you REALLY believe this, wouldn't you be getting ready ? its 8/05 for crying out load, the end is near !

If you have an open mind, and read the razimus.com stuff I have posted, the case is closed. There are 2 very good suspects named as titor possibilities, and a real scientist speaks about the technology and ENERGY required to time travel, and he declares titor a fraud

good enough for me
Its really not that hard to look at current trends and make predictions. I bet if ATS had a contest, you could have a handful of people nail 8-10 predictions for the next 5 years.

Excellent post syrinx

Can we now shutdown all threads related this topic?

I guess for me its just the gut reaction, or sniff test. When I initially read the titor posts in the titor forum here, it was well before this thread was started. It just struck me as a very clever work of fiction. There are many levels on which the story doesn't pass muster for me. What first jumped out at me was the tone of the posts. They read to me like a parent warning a child, "if you continue to behave like this, bad things will happen" It all came together for me with the post that went like "in the future, you are all regarded as lazy" That to me was an insight into the motivation behind the posts.

If you came back from the future you'd feel pretty superior. Perhaps Titor expressed this superiority by telling us all how much we've screwed up our future. I think there is a certain amount of enjoyment you could get out of that. He also, I believe, lost his wife in the War - this would clearly make him bitter and angry against the people he says allowed that war to happen- us.

On another level, you have a culture that is ONLY 21 years removed from a nuclear holocaust, and they can't get their linux to run, but they can (or GE can) develop a time travel device that is portable, and can send you backwards and forwards in time ? And no nuclear winter or ecological disaster ? no ice age ?

Titor did say there were problems, obviously, after the nukes fell (forgive me for not quoting exactly what he said, I can't be bothered - it's late here - maybe I will later). And it's stupid to speculate on the speed of development of science - you cannot predict it, but it's clear that this speed has accelerated rapidly even during my lifetime. Could people in the 1930's get their heads round the fact that in little more than 30 years, man would land on the moon?

On another level, if you can go back in time, wouldn't you use it for a higher purpose than an errand ? and if you were just picking up the groceries, wouldn't you brink back things that will have a bigger impact on your world than hardware ? Maybe something medical in nature, or vaccines ? wouldn't the military be more interested in getting weapons technology or uranium ?

Time Travel was in its early stages in 2036, indeed it was only officially unveilled in 2034 I think. Titor even says that many people do not believe in time travel in 2036, showing that even then it's not a widely-accepted concept. Seeing as it's in it's early stages perhaps they were content in doing smaller jobs, testing it out if you will. Or maybe they were doing bigger jobs, who knows.

On another level, if you know 4 billion people are going to die, don't you try to get on 60 minutes ? CNN? why go to an internet chat room ?

Because he would have been laughed at and ridiculed, possibly put in a mental instiution or even "silenced" by the government. Clearly, he wouldn't have wanted this.

I don't particularly believe in Titor but I'm just showing how there's two sides to every story and numerous possibilities. The supposed lack of Waco-type events for example: perhaps Titor didn't really understand exactly what Waco entailed? Or perhaps Waco went down a different way on his timeline? Therefore, his definition of a Waco-type event would be different to ours.

Gah. See what I mean. There's little point in arguing because nothing can be proved unless either the hoaxer comes out of the woodwork and admits it all or there's no US civil war/WW3 in the timescale Titor "predicted". I'm willing to wait until then instead of wasting my time arguing about it.

[edit on 25-8-2005 by Lurch]

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

If you have an open mind, and read the razimus.com stuff I have posted, the case is closed. There are 2 very good suspects named as titor possibilities, and a real scientist speaks about the technology and ENERGY required to time travel, and he declares titor a fraud

I wouldn't say they are very good suspects, no evidence suggest either of the two are the hoaxer. If there was it would be case closed. From the evidence that I have seen here, it is very poor. Until whenever....case still open.

syrinx high priest do you believe time travel is possible?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Roth:

1. None of what you wrote had anything to do with what I was talking about.

2. The PAII has NOT been passed.

3. Where in the world did you get your info from??

1. Your partly right.

2. Your partly right.

3.

The following URLs might give you some more insights of what's to come over us:

www.alternet.org...
On July 29th, the Senate reauthorization of the PATRIOT Act was approved by a process known as "unanimous consent." The week prior, the House majority voted to reauthorize the PATRIOT Act (257-171).

President Bush is expected to sign the reauthorized and largely permanent PATRIOT Act into law on Sept. 11, 2005, pending an ironed-out version between the House and the Senate once the legislative session resumes.

www.sierratimes.com...
It should be very clear to every American citizen that 1) something is terribly wrong with our “representative government,” and 2) our representatives and their corporate partners are recreating public law. Our rights as American citizens are being systematically, purposefully eliminated. Therefore, our opinions about this social condition and that cultural trend are pointless. In the very near future, changes could occur in America that will make all partisanship null and void. Martial Law knows no partisanship and cares not for opinion. It knows only military-style dictatorship.

www.theorator.com...
www.fas.org...
Statement of Senator Patrick Leahy:

Whether or not there have been abuses under the PATRIOT Act, the unchecked growth of secret surveillance powers and technologies with no real oversight by the Congress or the courts has resulted in clear abuses by the Executive Branch. We have seen secret arrests and secret hearings of hundreds of people for the first time in U.S. history; detentions without charges and denial of access to counsel; misapplication of the material witness statute as a sort of general preventive detention law; discriminatory targeting of Arabs and Muslims; selective enforcement of the immigration laws; and the documented mistreatment of aliens held on immigration charges. Such abuses harm our national security as well as civil liberties because they serve as recruiting posters for terrorists, intimidate American communities from cooperating with law enforcement agencies and, by misusing limited anti-terrorism resources, make it more likely that real terrorists will escape detection.

Beyond this, the Administration has used brutal and degrading interrogation techniques against detainees in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Guantanamo Bay that run counter to past American military traditions, practices and ideals. Information about these disgraceful acts continues to trickle out in large part because of a persistent press and the results of a lawsuit filed under the Freedom of Information Act, or FOIA. Meanwhile, the Administration continues to stonewall, releasing information only when it is self-serving to do so, or when ordered to do so by the courts.

The Department of Justice has been particularly obstinate in its refusal to release information. Justice Louis Brandeis said, "Sunshine is the best disinfectant." But despite its claims that the Department of Justice redacts information only to protect national security and privacy, DOJ held back a considerable amount of potentially embarrassing information when it released FBI email traffic last December in response to the FOIA lawsuit. Some of these documents are several pages in length, yet are entirely redacted.

www.aclu.org...
August 25, 2005
FBI Uses Patriot Act to Demand Information with No Judicial Approval From Organization with Library Records

Every single article you just posted is in regards to the Patriot act.

Not the proposed Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 (aka Patriot Act II) that your directly quoted from.

I came across this on a web site i have tried to insert a link but i still do not know how. it is about the us goverment warning other govts. not to interfere with upcoming domestic problems. This ties in with all miliatry leave cancelled. and john titor


whatdoesitmean.com/index808.htm sorry gents and ladies

[edit on 26-8-2005 by RaiderJose]

Originally posted by RaiderJose
I came across this on a web site i have tried to insert a link but i still do not know how

. it is about the us goverment warning other govts. not to interfere with upcoming domestic problems. This ties in with all miliatry leave cancelled. and john titor


whatdoesitmean.com/index808.htm sorry gents and ladies

If this website is true, there will be, like john titor said, a major civil war and the others country will be fighting against the city of the federal thing and not against the free people who live outside of those cities...

Is this source (whatdoesitmean.com) credible??

Originally posted by XPhiles

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

If you have an open mind, and read the razimus.com stuff I have posted, the case is closed. There are 2 very good suspects named as titor possibilities, and a real scientist speaks about the technology and ENERGY required to time travel, and he declares titor a fraud

I wouldn't say they are very good suspects, no evidence suggest either of the two are the hoaxer. If there was it would be case closed. From the evidence that I have seen here, it is very poor. Until whenever....case still open.

syrinx high priest do you believe time travel is possible?

I sure do. One of my favorite books is "lightning" by dean koontz.

I'd have to say I believe more in time travel to the future, but in a way thats really just taking advantage of the concept that as you approach the speed of light, time slows. Kinda like in the original planet of the apes. You put some folks into suspended animation, send them into a speed of light trip, and they come back as themselves, but in their future.

The problem, of course, is propulsion and fuel to get a ship and some travellers to go the speed of light, or at least near the speed of light. The more fuel you carry, the more fuel you need.

We will need some sort of radical propulsion system that doesn't burn fuel to accomplis this.


Time travel to the past I beleive IS impossible. Just my view.

"no evidence suggest either of the two are the hoaxer"


it was coincidence the ONLY web page on the net that contaned ALL 3 terms about gravity lock, etc was a guy who posted on the net about time travel a year before titor appeared ???

Originally posted by QuietSoul
Every single article you just posted is in regards to the Patriot act.

Not the proposed Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 (aka Patriot Act II) that your directly quoted from.

I hope you haven't forgotten "HR 2417" and the convenient date it was stealthily signed into law: december 13, 2003, under cover of Saddam's capture... aka the 'Salami' technique... one down... two to go...

Comments of Ron Paul, Congressman for Texas on HR 2417:
"It appears we are witnessing a stealth enactment of the enormously unpopular "Patriot II" legislation that was first leaked several months ago. Perhaps the national outcry when a draft of the Patriot II act was leaked has led its supporters to enact it one piece at a time in secret. Whatever the case, this is outrageous and unacceptable. I urge each of my colleagues to join me in rejecting this bill and its incredibly dangerous expansion of Federal police powers."

Whitehouse Statement on HR 2417
www.whitehouse.gov...

Ever heard of "blimps?" They will become our next reality... soon...

www.cbsnews.com...

Blimps Against Terror
July 7, 2004

Over hostile territory, at altitudes of up to 70,000 feet, the air ship would be hard to spot, even harder to shoot down.

(CBS) On its first test flight near Washington D.C., there were 2,000 reported UFO sightings.

As CBS News Correspondent Mark Strassmann reports, it's actually a helium air ship, a low-cost, low-hanging satellite and quite possibly, America's next weapon for national defense.

Steve Huett, director of airship programs of Naval Air Systems Command, sees the helium air ship having a clear potential for border patrol and national defense.

"Absolutely, without a doubt,'' Huett says.

What the Pentagon suddenly can envision is a fleet of these air ships guarding America's coastlines.

On board would be surveillance sensors, video cameras and a wireless communications package. Unmanned air ships could stay aloft for days, even months, depending on the mission and the altitude, relaying suspicions to operators on the ground.

Another possibility: airships could patrol the skies of Iraq and protect U.S. soldiers from above.

"Imagine if you have a convoy running down the road and we have eyes on the road four to five miles ahead of it," says Huett.

Over hostile territory, at altitudes of up to 70,000 feet, the air ship would be hard to spot, even harder to shoot down.

A radical redesign created by Mike Lawson's company includes a second inner bag to hold the airship's helium.

"So a hole is not going to make that much of a difference,'' he says.

Even under attack, this airship would be a survivor. All of its outer skin is made of spectra, a synthetic that's ten times stronger than steel, and because of the pressure of the helium inside, a bullet hole or any puncture would become, at worst, a slow leak, not a catastrophe."

"Even putting a thousands rounds would not take it out," says Lawson. "It would descend slowly."

Within the next few years, dozens of airships could be on patrol, to keep terror away from American soil.

Maybe you would be interested in this...

In this link you find clear comparisons made between WACO and the Utah Rave.

www.rense.com...


When in the past 12 years have we had an actual event with the same similarities as we have with WACO and the UTAH Rave.

If you don't know what happened at the UTAH RAVE ... LOOK IT UP!

I know i didn't hear about it on the news, I had to find out on the internet.


This is starting to get a little scary. I better buy that piece of land in Pennsylvannia that I was looking at and prepare for the worst. bunker down. good luck to the rest of you.

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Ever heard of "blimps?" They will become our next reality... soon...

www.cbsnews.com...

What are you talking about?
Our next reality??
Blimps have been around for decades. Since the begining of the 20th century. lol, have you been living under a rock or something?


And what does this have to do with Titor?