The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

My bad I never really paid attenton to titor in the first place.
So does this mean we can finally stop wonderng whether or not he was a fraud, and just accept that he was?

Nahhhhh peoplestll beilieve we never went to the moon.

I honestly feel sorry for you if this is your way of thinking IC...

Here we go again - "no it isn't" "No it hasn't "No, you're wrong" Has it occured to you, that for all this time you've been saying this, you've been wrong. You ain't living in reality mate. You just don't have a clue at all and I told you before, I am having to to go digging into the archive, for someone who doesn't even know where he is or what is happening around him. For something I've seen discussed hundreds of times on ATS since I've been here.

You will find, just like before, everything I have said is right. I'll leave it to others members to tell you this too.

Yet, just to clue you in in some:

That seems to be the problem. You don't know. It hasn't changed aword in the Constitution. It can't.

Have you actually read the patriot act? To summarise you can be detained indefinitely, you don't get a judicial hearing and you can be prosecuted without proof. This is what in politics is called police powers. A state that has police powers is a police state.

You have no idea just how many children, families, men and women are tasered, have their homes broken into by police forces. Hey mate, that is WACO like events. Read the news, or go to a site who archives all this information for you such as prison planet from legitimate news agencies. There is an incident like this every week or day.

If you don't think children getting tasered, or shot for no reason at all, or "accidentally" so frequently is not stripping you of your rights. Then. Oh, I won't bother.

It's usually frowned upon when you make claims like this and don't back it up.

(btw, he never said anything like this)

Yes, it is, and I've been frowning on most of your posts. Even your little assetion in the brackets. It's funny you say "claims should be backed up" and then make a baseless claim right underneath it.

I feel bad for you. Just how much you are being shown up. Here you go again:

HALIFAX, Nova Scotia — President Bush yesterday challenged international leaders to create a new world order, declaring pre-September 11 multilateralism outmoded and asserting that freedom from terrorism will come only through pre-emptive action against enemies of democracy.
In his first major foreign-policy speech since his re-election, the president set out an expansive second-term agenda with three distinct goals: reforming multilateral institutions, prosecuting the war on terrorism and spreading democracy in the Middle East

www.washingtontimes.com...

And heres more, but this time from Blair, you know the puppet of the Bush government, saying exactly the same thing:

Tony Blair's plans for a new world order in which advanced nations would take armed action to remove brutal or failed regimes were blocked yesterday by fellow centre-Left leaders.


Tony Blair argued that world leaders could not 'walk by on the other side'
Mr Blair had argued that world leaders could not "walk by on the other side" if people were being brutally downtrodden.

At a conference attended by 14 Social Democrat heads of state or government at Bagshot, Surrey, several leaders refused to sign up to a far-reaching statement paving the way for military action to protect the world from repressive governments.

Brazil and Argentina were said to have led protests from those who believed the declaration would have altered agreements on international sovereignty. Others feared it appeared to be a retrospective justification for the war on Iraq.

www.prisonplanet.com...

Do you remember Titor said the NWO is formed in 2010. Here is yet another thing that supports his story.

3. Who cares what other people are saying (including you). They don't live here so there's no way they can know.

Yeah that makes sense. You know just like the Germans and Jews in Nazi Germany, when Hitler had passed laws just like patriot acts and setup fatherland security. No offence mate, but your country is full of sheep and sheeps do nothing but graze the fields all day. You need someone tell you from the real world, what's up.

What is funny about this, so many people in your own country are saying the same, even a congress man. You just are not in touch with reality, mate. Did you see Michael Moore's certain documentary and Alex Jones Police state vidoes, or is that all just liberal propoganda by the evil blues

Must be those fairies and elves because America certainly isn't preparing for an invasion of anyone right now (neither is GB).

lol. I have seen threats from US to Iran ever since 2005 started, there's one topic a week almost on this. It doesn't seem like you read any of these forums.

I would tell you to do more research, but the only way you will truely learn is if you lived here for a year or two. I can't make you see, you just have to see for yourself (how completely off base you are.)

In psychology we call this psychological projection and delusions. You really, seriously and completely, don't have a clue do you? It appearsThe more you are shown up the deeper those delusions become.

You don't surprise me, I hate to generalise, but most Bush supporters just don't have a clue at all and are not very smart(that's being generous) That is why Titor said "It would be better if half of America were dead"

[edit on 14-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

What I wonder is, we get self proclaimed visionaries and people with the most fantastic stories on many forums all the time, but in most of them are quickly dismissed by a healthy dose of skepticism,

Why was John Titor allowed to rise to stardom status ???

Could it be that the guys on Anomalies.net were IN on it with John Titor, I mean, I read the past chatlogs and the postings and I don;t see much critical questions , its my experience that if somebody starts doing exceptional claims, halve the forums will jump on your back and challenge it, could it be staged interviews by Anomalies.net to make a name for itselve ?



[edit on 14-3-2005 by Silenus]

What sets Titor apart from the rest of the faceless claimants of extraordinary claims on the internet. Is that he is actually willing to provide evidence. He provided photographs, technical documents, scematics.

So there you go right away, he's already set himself apart from everyone else. There is physical tangible evidence. Look at this for example, just look at the level of compexity of these schematics.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So if titor was indeed hoaxing this, he went into all this trouble in creating model of a time machine, schematics, technical documents and hoaxing a photograph of a distortion field bending a laser. So we know for a fact Titor is very serious about this.

Then the fact that for several months he posted on this forum as a time traveller and there was not a single hole in his story, not even in his science and physics. It really seemed like he was telling the truth.

Then for even the names he used "GE" gravity distortion unit and CERN on the verge of microsingularities. Even these check out. Not many actually know about the gravity distortion unit developed at GE. Nor, did he make any reference to it to corroborate his claims. It was only later discovered such a device does indeed exist and is designed by GE.

Nor were the plans of CERN planning to create microsingulaities public information. It may have been specialist information however. So Titor really must have researched his case to a T. So again, this person is serious. A lot is consistent with Titor's story.

So what did he do all this for? He has perplexed many, there is even a book written on him. If he wants he can come out of the woodworks and turn this into a money making enterprise. Why isn't he doing this?

Then the fact that his predictions are consistent with other so called time travellers, such as Al Biek of the Philidelphia experiment and Billy Meier, both who have predicted similar events. Yet, the difference is, both have turned this into a money making enterprise. Titor, hasn't.

Finally, the fact that so many of Titor's predictions are consistent with the progression of events today, now makes it plausible that Titor was indeed genuine. All we have to do is wait out 2005. Can you do that?

I have a reason to believe that Titor could be genuine. I am not certain, but I am not going to be so close-minded and arrogant, to not even give him a chance. Just wait him out, please

[edit on 14-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

I found this about the IBM 5100

www.postbulletin.com...

I found it here

johntitor.com...

Someone has come forward to substantiate Titors claims about the IBM 5100.

Now to me that suggest that either Titor was real or that the hoaxer was very close to the people who made the IBM 5100.

Yet, even more evidence to support Titor. Now, we are going to hear how he must have worked for IBM or was some computer genius. As well as a physics genius.

lets assume you can travel in time. You are hoping to stop W from being re-elected. You want to stop a civil war, WWIII.

Do you;
a) send an assassin back to take out W
b) send a floozy to claim she slept with W, or somehow throw the election to kerry
c) send someone to get a part from an IBM 5100.........and post his story on an internet conspiracy forum


I think titor is a disgruntled democrat with a lot of time on his hands.....
1) he gives out his timeline and family name, but his lawyer tells you that you can't contact the family, but you can buy a t-shirt or book

I'm surprised that bit of evidence isn't used more.

Titor said it best

I will examine the web site you mentioned. I believe the 5100 is unique in its ability to run assembler language on the 360-machine platform and still be portable. I�m not sure if that fact was ever made public so it�s the best �proof� I have. I would like to examine the software you mentioned; perhaps I can further justify my side-trip.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 14-3-2005 by Burgess]

[edit on 14-3-2005 by Burgess]

Originally posted by syrinx high priest


lets assume you can travel in time. You are hoping to stop W from being re-elected. You want to stop a civil war, WWIII.

Do you;
a) send an assassin back to take out W
b) send a floozy to claim she slept with W, or somehow throw the election to kerry
c) send someone to get a part from an IBM 5100.........and post his story on an internet conspiracy forum


I think titor is a disgruntled democrat with a lot of time on his hands.....
1) he gives out his timeline and family name, but his lawyer tells you that you can't contact the family, but you can buy a t-shirt or book

You don't get it, do you? Titor said there were infinite time lines. If you stop certain events in one time line to save the people, then what about the people in other world lines?

Titor did not say he was here to stop the wars. He was here to get an an old IBM computer, because of a problem in the Unix systems in 2036. So, he was only here to help his own world line. Not to help ours. As our worldine was the closest to his own, so he could obtain this computer.

You could not actually travel in your wordline. You could only jump from one to the other.

so you're saying they could make a time machine, but their unix box was crashing so they came back to get an IBM part ? Did titor get it on e-bay ?


ok, in my timeline, titor is a hoax. He can be a time traveller in your time line, hows that ?

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Have you actually read the patriot act? To summarise you can be detained indefinitely, you don't get a judicial hearing and you can be prosecuted without proof. This is what in politics is called police powers. A state that has police powers is a police state.

1. A police state is where such acts are commonplace and are the rule not the exception. As one who actually lives in the US and not 2000 miles away, I can tell you for a FACT that such acts aren't commonplace for US citizens.

2. Which constitutional rights have been taken away? You still haven't answered that.

You have no idea just how many children, families, men and women are tasered, have their homes broken into by police forces.

No, YOU have no idea. You're getting your info from the internet. I'm getting it from real life.

Hey mate, that is WACO like events.

Do you even know what Waco was??

Read the news, or go to a site who archives all this information for you such as prison planet from legitimate news agencies. There is an incident like this every week or day.

Ok, show me. Show me wher all this stuff is going on for absolutely no reason.
Here's the link. Show me where.
www.prisonplanet.com...

If you don't think children getting tasered, or shot for no reason at all, or "accidentally" so frequently

Again, show me the stats that this stuff has been on the rise. I want to know.

I feel bad for you. Just how much you are being shown up. Here you go again:

HALIFAX, Nova Scotia — President Bush yesterday challenged international leaders to create a new world order, declaring pre-September 11 multilateralism outmoded and asserting that freedom from terrorism will come only through pre-emptive action against enemies of democracy.
In his first major foreign-policy speech since his re-election, the president set out an expansive second-term agenda with three distinct goals: reforming multilateral institutions, prosecuting the war on terrorism and spreading democracy in the Middle East

www.washingtontimes.com...

lol
That's the only thing you can come up with?
1. Bush didn't say anything about creating the NWO as in the control all government system.
2. You obviously don't read the Times that much do you
They do this type of stuff all the time.

Do you know who owns the washington times?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do you remember Titor said the NWO is formed in 2010. Here is yet another thing that supports his story.

You like putting dates on stuff. I don't remember him putting a date on it I do remember:

JT - "Yes, I think the New World Order idea tried to establish itself. I would consider them the combination of the old U.S. federal system, Europe, Canada and Australia."

question - and who are those involved with breathing life into this supposed NWO, that many people in our current world-line are so afraid of?

JT - On my worldline, we are no longer afraid of the "NWO". Are you afraid of Nazis?

Yeah that makes sense. You know just like the Germans and Jews in Nazi Germany, when Hitler had passed laws just like patriot acts and setup fatherland security. No offence mate, but your country is full of sheep and sheeps do nothing but graze the fields all day. You need someone tell you from the real world, what's up.

If you, getting info off the internet, think you know more than someone who actually goes out into the "real world", then you're sadly mistaken.

Did you see Michael Moore's certain documentary and Alex Jones Police state vidoes, or is that all just liberal propoganda by the evil blues

Their views are clearly biased so why should I believe them over someone with bias on the other side?
In two months I can make 2 videos (and I may try this one day). In one vid, I can make the US look like the best country ever created. In the other I can make this place look like hell. It's honestly not that hard.

lol. I have seen threats from US to Iran ever since 2005 started, there's one topic a week almost on this. It doesn't seem like you read any of these forums.

1. No one is threatening invasion. If we attack, it'll be mainly airstrikes (maybe a few special ops here and there).
2. Like I said before, no one is even preparing for an invasion right now. Invading Iran would require a lot of prep. None of this has taken place so far.

You don't surprise me, I hate to generalise, but most Bush supporters just don't have a clue at all and are not very smart(that's being generous)

You're an idiot
1. I never said I was a Bush supporter.
2. What does Bush have to do with Titor? Because I don't believe Titor means I'm a Bush supporter? Or what? Because I don't take what bias internet sites say as gospel, makes me a Bush supporter?
Get real man.

That is why Titor said "It would be better if half of America were dead"

He also said that it wouldn't be a Democrat vs. Republican fight, so what are you talking about?
Besides you don't even live in America. How would you know which is the better half?

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
so you're saying they could make a time machine, but their unix box was crashing so they came back to get an IBM part ? Did titor get it on e-bay ?


ok, in my timeline, titor is a hoax. He can be a time traveller in your time line, hows that ?

What do gravitational distortion fields have to with a UNIX programming language? It does not mean if you can build a time machine, that you will be immune to errors in code. In 2000, we had supercomputers and nanocomputers. Yet something as simple as the Millenium bug had us in mass panic.

It's a bit like saying why do alien space ships crash, when they are so advanced - because technology is not infallible. In Titors worldline in 2036, time travel is possible. So, if they can obtain an old IBM computer to help them, why not do it?

As for Titor being a hoax, and this is just because you don't believe, eh? This means he's a hoax. Umm, okay. Be honest with yourself and wait out 2005. There is not that long to wait to determine whether Titor is a hoax or not. I think he deserves this much, considering just how much evidence is supporting him.

Now this is fun, trying to talk sense into a butt head.

1. A police state is where such acts are commonplace and are the rule not the exception. As one who actually lives in the US and not 2000 miles away, I can tell you for a FACT that such acts aren't commonplace for US citizens.

2. Which constitutional rights have been taken away? You still haven't answered that.

No, clueless. A police state is a state with police powers. And, acts of police powers being used are very common actually. You just don't have your eyes open - only your mouth.

As for which constitutional rights are taken away.

You can get shot by the police on suspicion
You can be detained indefinitely
You can be relocated in camps outside of US
You can get arrested without a warrant
You can be prosecuted without a judicial hearing
You can be searched without a warrant
You can be imprisoned as a terrorist for dissenting against state
You are are liable to death penality for any federal crime punishable by 1 year+


So, what do you think has changed, Einstein?

Here read these:

www.prisonplanet.com...
www.prisonplanet.com...
prisonplanet.tv...

No, YOU have no idea. You're getting your info from the internet. I'm getting it from real life.

I am curious, "what information are you getting"?

Do you even know what Waco was??

Yes I do. I know a lot about the atrocities and brutalities your government has perpetrated against people. And this military operation against innocent children, women and men and burning them alive is just the kind of brutality I read about everyday in US.

Ok, show me. Show me wher all this stuff is going on for absolutely no reason.
Here's the link. Show me where.
www.prisonplanet.com...

So, I now have to help you navigate the site too. Alright then:

Well on the front page:

www.fox30online.com...

Milton Woolfolk from Lake City died after police shot him with a taser. Woolfolk had a history of psychiatric problems and around noon on Friday, Columbia county sheriff's deputies attempted to take him into custody for a psychiatric evaluation.

I can vouch personally. At least once in a week, I hear about such brutality. Bookmark this site and check it everyday.

If you don't think children getting tasered, or shot for no reason at all, or "accidentally" so frequently

www.prisonplanet.com...

Excerpt: A veteran South Tucson police sergeant is under investigation for firing his stun gun to subdue a handcuffed 9-year-old girl.

At the request of Chief Sixto Molina, the Pima County Sheriff's Department is trying to determine if the sergeant committed a crime when he sent a jolt through the child's body.

The police officer used a Taser on the girl at about 5:30 p.m. May 8, Molina said. The nonlethal weapon uses a pulsating electrical charge to immobilize a person for several seconds.

"I'll be the first to admit, you've got a veteran sergeant Tasing a 9-year-old girl, it doesn't look good," said Molina.

Excerpt: MILWAUKEE -- A woman who hadi] just talked a friend out of suicide had her pet cocker spaniel shot to death by a police officer called to her house.

Then the officer handed Valerie Mueller a $120 citation for having her dog, Sprite, outside without a leash.

``I will fight that ticket,'' said Mueller, 33, a special education teacher with Milwaukee Public Schools.

Excerpt: May 23, 2003 -- Residents of a Bronx building are outraged after getting an unexpected morning "greeting" yesterday from a police drug squad, which burst into their homes, waved guns at children and then left after finding nothing.
"At 7:50 a.m., they burst down the door to the building," said Joe Celcis, a teacher whose mother and sister live in the home.

"After an hour and a half, they said, 'Sorry wrong house,' and left."

The cops were armed with a warrant that allowed them to search all the units at 3629 Olinville Ave., a four-family apartment building.



They smashed open a door, handcuffed several people and put a gun in the face of 12-year-old Jennifer Espady before going though everyone's belongings, witnesses said.

"They came in with guns drawn and pushed me," Jennifer said.

Excerpt: January 7, 2003

A Detroit police officer with a knife cut off the finger of a 45-year-old woman he was trying to handcuff in a parking lot on 8 Mile.

Excerpt: An accountant claims that he was kept for more than 24 hours in "leg chains" and denied food and water after flying into New York's JFK airport with his wife.

David Pattison, 52, of Beeston, Norfolk, was held by US security officials because an Interpol notice alleged that he was wanted in Qatar for debts of up to $10,000 (£5,800).

He was deported on Monday night without having been allowed to enter America.

Mr Pattison, who disputes the alleged debt, said he was subjected to "inhumane and degrading" treatment by the US authorities and a "lack of assistance" by the Foreign Office.

Excerpt: Three minutes and seven seconds tells the story of a dog named Patton.

The dog, which was shot at close range Jan. 1 by a Cookeville policeman during a felony traffic stop, belonged to the James Smoak family of Saluda, N.C. At the time, the Tennessee Highway Patrol suspected the Smoaks — James, his wife, Pamela, and his stepson, Brandon Hayden — were involved in a Nashville-area robbery.

Excerpt: The sound of heavy machinery, exploding grenades and blaring announcements cracked the early morning silence.

Neighbors looked out their windows Oct. 17 to see an armored truck rolling down the street. They saw at least 45 officers armed with shotguns and assault rifles entering a trio of houses, standing guard at alleyways and blocking traffic lanes.

Officers wouldn't explain to startled residents what was going on.

Police pulled four people - including a nude woman and another woman wearing only underpants and a T-shirt - from their beds and kept them in handcuffs in a room of one of the houses for several hours. One woman reported that an officer covered her head with a black fabric bag and removed it only when she agreed to cooperate.


Neighbors later learned that officers had served a search warrant at three adjacent houses near West Fifth Avenue and Adams Street, where police suspected people were growing marijuana.

The raid sparked immediate outrage among more than a dozen neighbors and friends of the property owners and in recent weeks has become a rallying point for community organizers. The fact that police found no marijuana plants or weapons has only angered neighbors further.

Again, show me the stats that this stuff has been on the rise. I want to know.

There you go, I could actually post even more. It is so obvious US is a police state and it's very easy to prove. However, this is all just biased and taken out of context propoganda, right? Come on, I know you American sheep too well now. I can predict everything you are going to say. Even if it's all put in front of you, you still won't have a clue.

lol
That's the only thing you can come up with?

1. Bush didn't say anything about creating the NWO as in the control all government system.
2. You obviously don't read the Times that much do you

They do this type of stuff all the time.

Do you know who owns the washington times?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now, why doesn't it surprise me that you attacked the source. You said, rather foolishly, that Bush didn't say this. I've shown you he has and proven you wrong once again.

Yeah that makes sense. You know just like the Germans and Jews in Nazi Germany, when Hitler had passed laws just like patriot acts and setup fatherland security. No offence mate, but your country is full of sheep and sheeps do nothing but graze the fields all day. You need someone tell you from the real world, what's up.

If you, getting info off the internet, think you know more than someone who actually goes out into the "real world", then you're sadly mistaken.

No, I am getting all this information from reliable media sources and US media sources itself.

Their views are clearly biased so why should I believe them over someone with bias on the other side?

There you go again. Denial of facts.

In two months I can make 2 videos (and I may try this one day). In one vid, I can make the US look like the best country ever created. In the other I can make this place look like hell. It's honestly not that hard.

LOL, there is already enough propoganda on CNN that makes US look like the best country ever created. What you don't understand, that Moore and Jones can only show what there is to show.

In Moores documentary we saw how homeless Americans were being drafted for war and how people were being visited by the FBI for Anti-bush comments. Your country is so ridiculous and full of arrogant sheep, that people are having to support the government and it's policies, just to prove their patriotism. And those who who do have a problem with the illegal wars and the stripping away of their rights, are the evil liberal blues.

1. No one is threatening invasion. If we attack, it'll be mainly airstrikes (maybe a few special ops here and there).
2. Like I said before, no one is even preparing for an invasion right now. Invading Iran would require a lot of prep. None of this has taken place so far.

Finally, you concede to something.

1. I never said I was a Bush supporter.
2. What does Bush have to do with Titor? Because I don't believe Titor means I'm a Bush supporter? Or what? Because I don't take what bias internet sites say as gospel, makes me a Bush supporter?
Get real man.

Your apathy, ignorance and arrogance, the typical qualities of a Bush supporter, is what makes me think you are.

Besides you don't even live in America. How would you know which is the better half?

The typical show of mentality I have seen by a Bush supporter in this forum.

[edit on 14-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

i like how incredibly liberal this forum is. Guess what, the majority of America is a Bush supporter, and guess who voted Kerry, the LOWER CLASS! Hhahahahahahah, nice, we are dumber for supporting Bush, yet we make more money, talk about hypocrisy. But to get to the point the United States is controlled by Republicans at this very moment, so that must mean they are doing something right. Oh yeah, and guess what else, America is the most powerful nation on the planet, so you saying your dumb for being a Bush supporter is quite hysterical, i will summarize the facts up for you.

-America is the most powerful nation on Earth
-Bush is the leader
-Bush was re-elected by the majority
-The people who didn't vote Bush were typically the lower class/impoverished/college students.
-You claim that people who vote Bush are dumb
and to restate my first point and 3rd point
-Bush WAS re-elected
-America IS the most powerful Nation on the Planet.


Idiot.

Now, back to Titor, he is wrong, why do you guys want there to be a civil war in America. For the foreigners who would you rather have as your Super Power, America or China? For Americans, you are just sick.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
i like how incredibly liberal this forum is. Guess what, the majority of America is a Bush supporter, and guess who voted Kerry, the LOWER CLASS! Hhahahahahahah, nice, we are dumber for supporting Bush, yet we make more money, talk about hypocrisy. But to get to the point the United States is controlled by Republicans at this very moment, so that must mean they are doing something right. Oh yeah, and guess what else, America is the most powerful nation on the planet, so you saying your dumb for being a Bush supporter is quite hysterical, i will summarize the facts up for you.

-America is the most powerful nation on Earth
-Bush is the leader
-Bush was re-elected by the majority
-The people who didn't vote Bush were typically the lower class/impoverished/college students.
-You claim that people who vote Bush are dumb
and to restate my first point and 3rd point
-Bush WAS re-elected
-America IS the most powerful Nation on the Planet.


Idiot.

Now, back to Titor, he is wrong, why do you guys want there to be a civil war in America. For the foreigners who would you rather have as your Super Power, America or China? For Americans, you are just sick.

The measure of a man is their decency in victory - not defeat - and by that standard your post suggests at the very least a certain lack of graciousness. The fact of the matter is that Bush's largest margin of victory was among the white working class, even though working class African-Americans and Latinos trend strongly Democrat. Bush also had a strong showing among white, exurban middle and upper middle class Americans, but on the other hand the Democrats have owned the inner suburbs and the "new economy" middle class (of all races) - software developers, engineers, animators, IT managers, etc - since the 1992 election. As for the wealthy, again they're split, with "old economy" money (mining, real estate, manufacturing, farming, etc) going to Bush and "new economy" money (Silicon Valley, Hollywood, biotech, the media, etc) going to Kerry.

The country, you'll recall, is pretty well split down the middle.

Bush won this election because Americans are scared out of their wits about the possibility of someone flying an airplane into their respective place of work, not because anyone but the super-rich is crazy about his economic policies, or because anyone but the fringe religious right is crazy about his social policies. Americans support Bush's foreign policy of Arab democratization, but this country has an isolationist soul, and the American people simply want this whole mess to be over with as soon as possible. We're a decent but tired people and at the very least you can be certain that the neoconservative dream of a "new American century" is little more than a fantasy.

Arab democracy is coming - and thank God for that - but the old American-dominated geopolitical order is also dying at the same time. By the end of the "war on terror" there will be a new international order emerging, with a strong China, a growing India, a unified Europe, and a deeply indebted America whose people are tired of spending so much of their GDP policing the world and so little on their own. Churchill saved Britain from Nazism, and was promptly booted from office for the most socialist prime minister Britain has ever had. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen here.

As for civil war, well, I doubt it, but the extreme right domestic policies of the Bush adminstration, to say nothing of the utter lack of grace and class displayed by many Bush supporters is certainly radicalizing a rather large minority of the American people. And it doesn't take a majority to launch an insurrection, or revolution.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
No, clueless. A police state is a state with police powers. And, acts of police powers being used are very common actually. You just don't have your eyes open - only your mouth.

"A police state is a state with police powers"
hmmm....ok. Name one country without a police force. Name one country with 300 million people without a police foce. Name one country that doesn't need a police force. I can't think of one.
By your definition every country on the planet is a police state.

As for which constitutional rights are taken away.

You can get shot by the police on suspicion
You can be detained indefinitely
You can be relocated in camps outside of US
You can get arrested without a warrant
You can be prosecuted without a judicial hearing
You can be searched without a warrant
You can be imprisoned as a terrorist for dissenting against state
You are are liable to death penality for any federal crime punishable by 1 year+

You're a smart one aren't you. Read our constitution then get back to me. Read the PA then get back to me.

I am curious, "what information are you getting"?

Real information. Unfiltered and not propagandadized.

Yes I do. I know a lot about the atrocities and brutalities your government has perpetrated against people. And this military operation against innocent children, women and men and burning them alive is just the kind of brutality I read about everyday in US.

You're a complete moron if you think that type of stuff goes on everyday. Man, one of my pet peeves is stupidity and you're really pushing that button. If you have something like that happen more than once a decade it's a shocker.
Get real man.
It's ok for the US not to be as evil as you're trying to make it.

So, I now have to help you navigate the site too. Alright then:

Well on the front page:

www.fox30online.com...

Milton Woolfolk from Lake City died after police shot him with a taser. Woolfolk had a history of psychiatric problems and around noon on Friday, Columbia county sheriff's deputies attempted to take him into custody for a psychiatric evaluation.

lol, I knew you were going to post that (I must be from the future too).
Did you read the article?


The rest of the stuff well:
cnn.law.printthis.clickability.com... 1&urlID=13541735&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2005%2FLAW%2F03%2F14%2Fatlanta.shooting%2Findex.html&partnerID=2013

This is why police are always on their toes. They need to be.

There you go, I could actually post even more. It is so obvious US is a police state and it's very easy to prove. However, this is all just biased and taken out of context propoganda, right? Come on, I know you American sheep too well now. I can predict everything you are going to say. Even if it's all put in front of you, you still won't have a clue.

I asked you to show me that stuff was on the rise. You have failed to do so.

Now, why doesn't it surprise me that you attacked the source. You said, rather foolishly, that Bush didn't say this. I've shown you he has and proven you wrong once again.

wtf? So the source doesn't matter?
Please show me again btw where Bush said that. I saw that the newspaper said that, but I didn't catch that quote from Bush.

No, I am getting all this information from reliable media sources and US media sources itself.

"reliable" like prisonplanet?

Their views are clearly biased so why should I believe them over someone with bias on the other side?

There you go again. Denial of facts.

Name one fact that I denied? I asked a question. You failed to answer.

LOL, there is already enough propoganda on CNN that makes US look like the best country ever created. What you don't understand, that Moore and Jones can only show what there is to show.

So CNN is propaganda but Moore is not?

LMAO!!!
Good one!

I pity you if you actually believe that. I hope you never find the truth, it may be too much for you to handle.

In Moores documentary we saw how homeless Americans were being drafted for war and how people were being visited by the FBI for Anti-bush comments.

wow, just wow.

Your country is so ridiculous and full of arrogant sheep

Have you even been to the United States? I honestly doubt it. Until you've been here for a substatial period of time you views on how the US populace is , means NOTHING.

1. No one is threatening invasion. If we attack, it'll be mainly airstrikes (maybe a few special ops here and there).
2. Like I said before, no one is even preparing for an invasion right now. Invading Iran would require a lot of prep. None of this has taken place so far.

Finally, you concede to something.

What did I concede? I said no invasion before, I'm still saying no invasion.

Are you talking about "a lot of prep"?
That's common sense genius. And I said none of that is taking place.

Your apathy, ignorance and arrogance, the typical qualities of a Bush supporter, is what makes me think you are.

I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not. Are you?
I hope so.

Besides you don't even live in America. How would you know which is the better half?

The typical show of mentality I have seen by a Bush supporter in this forum.

Again, I'm hoping this is a joke, no?
What type of menality am I showing btw? I asked a question (which, again, you failed to answer).

Originally posted by greenturtle
The measure of a man is their decency in victory - not defeat - and by that standard your post suggests at the very least a certain lack of graciousness.

So, another words, i should just sit here and let you call me an idiot, as you did earlier in this topic? Is your way of thinking, "Take my abuse but i won't take yours?" Hypocritical to say the very least!

The fact of the matter is that Bush's largest margin of victory was among the white working class, even though working class African-Americans and Latinos trend strongly Democrat. Bush also had a strong showing among white, exurban middle and upper middle class Americans, but on the other hand the Democrats have owned the inner suburbs and the "new economy" middle class (of all races) - software developers, engineers, animators, IT managers, etc - since the 1992 election. As for the wealthy, again they're split, with "old economy" money (mining, real estate, manufacturing, farming, etc) going to Bush and "new economy" money (Silicon Valley, Hollywood, biotech, the media, etc) going to Kerry.

I dont know why you believe that the upper class is split on Republican vs. Democratic. You may be looking for the phrase a Moderate-Republican, someone who is willing to vote out of their party if they really like, or dislike, a candidate.

The country, you'll recall, is pretty well split down the middle.

Yes it is pretty split down the middle, HOWEVER, we currently have one of the least liked Presidents in office, and it showed on the day of the election that America is trending Republican.

Bush won this election because Americans are scared out of their wits about the possibility of someone flying an airplane into their respective place of work, not because anyone but the super-rich is crazy about his economic policies, or because anyone but the fringe religious right is crazy about his social policies. Americans support Bush's foreign policy of Arab democratization, but this country has an isolationist soul, and the American people simply want this whole mess to be over with as soon as possible.

Sure, Americans may be scared that someone is going to run a plane into their office building, however, that isn't even close to the whole story. If that was so, then America wouldn't have voted nearly all republicans into office, including voting out Tom Daschel (D). He won, mostly, because you don't take a leader out of office when you are fighting a war, or so the saying goes. He also won because Kerry was a stiff, and very shady to say the least. Yes we want this mess to be over with.

Arab democracy is coming - and thank God for that - but the old American-dominated geopolitical order is also dying at the same time. By the end of the "war on terror" there will be a new international order emerging, with a strong China, a growing India, a unified Europe, and a deeply indebted America whose people are tired of spending so much of their GDP policing the world and so little on their own. Churchill saved Britain from Nazism, and was promptly booted from office for the most socialist prime minister Britain has ever had. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen here.

Umm... America is going to EASILY make that money back once everything is over with. You forget that China is on the brink of a war between them and Tawain, which would then involve The US, Japan, and Australia to say the very least. Did you know that California makes a profit of 1 trillion dollars every year? America is 7 trillion dollars in debt, and before these wars and the PLANNED economic drop, although 9/11 made it much worse, America was pulling in around 13 trillion dollars a year. The ecoonomy will grow, mainly because of the Republican base in power, as that is what they are known for. A war between China and the US would pretty much collapse China's economy. As for India, i agree that they are growing, and they are being smart about it, but they still have some very bad blood with their neighbors, Pakistan. The US could easily survive a war with China, although Target would take the place of Walmart, or some other store.

But, lets get this topic back on track, John Titor is nothing more than a fraud, who was incredibly vague, and all the information he provided is yet to come true. Trust me, as a US citizen living in a BLUE state, i can assure you that no one is that upset that they are going to start a civil war. America is starting to regain some juice in it's economy and people are happier.

[edit on 14-3-2005 by Ryanp5555]

Indigo Child,

Wow, you seem to have a lot of links and pinned down anger about the patriot act. However, I must ask, have you ever read the patriot act? I ask this not to be smug, but rather to mention the patriot act is mostly a collection of ammendments to previous bills and laws. That is, if you're expecting a relatively easily to read set of law (oxymoron, I know), then you'd be very disappointed when you take a look at it.

If I had to guess, I would be more inclined to believe that you have read many articles written by people who have read it. And oddly enough, most people who write articles about such thing do so in such a way to offer a view point. For the sake of previous debates, I have gone through most of what the patriot act ammends, taking the time to look at the laws that it changes line by line. Ironically, most of the rights that you claim to be taken away actually refer to those who are not american citizens. The patriot act rarely refers to American citizens.

For those interested, here is the actual patriot act (not an editorial about it):
www.epic.org...


I'd be more than willing to debate any of your alleged taking away the rights of American citizens if you're willing to refer to them by paragraph and section number in the bill.

With respect to NWO talk, it was --interestingly enough-- Darwin who was one of the first to predict that mankind will eventually form a one world government (for those interested, I can quote him). We all knew evolution was satan's work, right? :-P In all seriousness, however, what examples you can find regarding the abuse of citizens are few and far between when you compare all the correct behavior that does occur. There are typically a few bad apples in every field. A key note that we need to observe is that abuse against the Jews and their kin were directly supported by the government in NAZI Germany, while in these cases, it is not directly the policy of the police in the U.S. to behave that way.

Just remember, rational comes from the root word ratio; the perfect balance. Not everything has to fall with or against one's ideology.

Originally posted by Silenus
Could it be that the guys on Anomalies.net were IN on it with John Titor, I mean, I read the past chatlogs and the postings and I don;t see much critical questions , its my experience that if somebody starts doing exceptional claims, halve the forums will jump on your back and challenge it, could it be staged interviews by Anomalies.net to make a name for itselve ?

Silenus, I'm not going to be hostile here but you suffer from lack of knowlege. Let me clue you in here.

First of all John Titor never posted on Anomalies. He first posted on Art Bell's BBS, then on www.timetravelinstitute.net.

Second, there are those on Anomalies who did post back and forth with John Titor, but most are debunkers. JohnTitor.com even lists Anomalies as the "debunker" site on the web. The Anomalies site began long before John Titor started posting. They were doing just fine on their own before John Titor posted. They are not "in" on it, nor did they stage an event.

Third, there were several that asked critical questions, they slapped John Titor around... still John Titor said that it didn't matter if they believed him or not.

Next order of business..... Indigo_child, you rock. If I knew how to rate you for the way above award, I'd do it.

I moderate a timetravelforum. I sit on the fence on whether or not time travel is possible today or even 40 years from now. However, what JT says intrigues me. If everyone would start reading what he has to say, instead of wondering if timetravel is possible or looking at the cheesy photographs, I believe the disbelievers would come to a different conclusion.

Things to consider:

JT's fax to Art Bell in 1998 where he mentions a missing skyscraper.

Cern's recent announcement.

Hawking's changing his mind and agreeing with JT

No WMD found in Iraq

100,000+ people dying


Just one more thing. The JT believers I come in contact with hope that JT isn't real. They research in hopes to debunk the person(s) that posted 5 years ago about our possible future. They don't have a doomsday attitude. They have an attitude that it is better to be prepared than to panic. Read everything you can get your hands on and you may change your mind on what John Titor said.

I have heard that American troops would NOT shoot American people
if a Civil war was to occur in America...

I have also heard that America has some 2 million + FOREIGN troops on herr soil who wouldn't think twice about shooting American people in the event of a civil war.

Can't figure why America would have 2 mill + foreign troops ???
can anyone confirm this for me.


???
Also Titor said 2005 Civil war would start but not become obvious until 2008