The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

What part of STOP SPAMMING THIS THREAD is so hard to understand Roth? There are other threads where you can post that stuff. This thread is about Titor.

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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
What part of STOP SPAMMING THIS THREAD is so hard to understand Roth? There are other threads where you can post that stuff. This thread is about Titor.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

ABOUT ATS: General ATS discussion etiquette

Don't copy and paste entire pieces of content from other websites. In many cases, if that content comes from a news source, such activity is copyright infringement. In addition, it makes no sense to duplicate something here that exists elsewhere. If you see something that should be discussed here, just past the first one or two paragraphs, then the link. We may deleted these posts without warning, and if you are found to repeatedly engage in this activity, your account could be suspended, or penalized.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Terms and Conditions of Use

13.) You will not post messages that are clearly outside of the stated topic of any forums nor disrupt a forum by deliberately posting repeated irrelevant messages or copies of identical messages (also known as "flooding").......

Obviously you are very uncomfortable with the facts presented to you. If you cannot accept the truth don’t try to get your way by means of foul play.

I’ll accept whatever the outcome may be. Even if you would succeed in getting me banned, the information already provided by me to you cannot be denied. I sincerely express my hope to others on this board not to stop sharing their insights regarding John Titor and neither to be scared away by those attempting to muzzle their freedom of speech in this way.

Everything I posted was and is related to John Titor. The monthly “WACO-type events” steadily getting worse can be recognized by observing the same methods being used by law enforcement officers upon American civilians in the WACO massacre. They represent the many deadly and damaging taser incidents becoming apparent around 2004. And they are indeed steadily growing worse in this year 2005. It’s only a matter of time before organized groups opposing these methods "engage in maneuver and armed conflict."

To say it with Titor’s words: “What I feel is not anger, it is sadness that you cannot see what I see. The people who understand what they are seeing are not aggressive. Please, please wake up. Look at the signposts around you now.”

May I remind you:

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
The "civil conflicts" indeed have already started as a "war" of authorities against "minorities." Please don't tell me you think it's normal that law-enforcement officers can get away with tasering unarmed children and adults tasering to death.

Show me one of those incidents where the officer got away without dur process. Just show me ONE.

I have presented you many cases now. They are growing worse every week. Along with Officers of the Law being cleared time and time again from any prosecution for "wrongful death."

Originally posted by Roth Joint
According to Titor these WACO type events (methods) will grow into a "civil war" until it cannot be denied anymore around 2008 when it's on everyone's doorstep.

These WACO-type deadly and damaging taser incidents became apparent around 2004 and are steadily getting worse as clearly witnessed in this year 2005. Non-lethal taser use appearing to be quite lethal is a clear sign of this time period. It induces a fear among the US population as seen nowhere before. Would people be afraid in 1995 for their wives or children being tasered by their own officers of the law? Ofcourse not.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You're a fool if you think this country is worse than it was then.

I would say the opposite. You're a fool if you do NOT think this country is worse than it was then.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Titor clearly states that his family was merely avoiding conflict with the federal police and National Guard starting from 2006. [“From the age of 8 to 12, [ 2006 to 2010 ] we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and National Guard.”]
Again, with the situation in America as it is right now, we can see that clearly happening already

LOL
You're not American then. Because no where in America is the situation where people are afraid of the Federal Police and National Guard. The national guard aren't even called out anywhere!
I just went to a little kid's birthday party, his mother is a Fed. police officer. Not once did she threaten me

You won’t be laughing very long.

www.dailytexanonline.com...
-- A congressional report published last month said there is sufficient number of National Guard troops, who could be placed on the border within one month.

-- The congressional report further called on governors of Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico to request federal funding from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld for the mobilization of 36,000 National Guard troops.

-- Perry could not be reached regarding whether he has a plan to ask for the National Guard troops.

John Titor:
"However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal. Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, "In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems…" When they use the word "enemy", they're talking about YOU! You don't really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you?"

....."a Waco type event [WACO-methods] every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012."

….."There's not a great deal I know about Canada except to say they were pretty much in the same type of conflict."

WACO=
- Innocent/defenseless people being killed
- under false pretences
- by their own authorities
- while pleading for help, mercy or their lives
- while the law enforcement officers responsible for their death are cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death."
=Tasering innocent/defenseless people to death

"All those arrested are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law".....

WACO-type events = WACO-type methods:
"If the federal forces learned anything from WACO it was to install more reliable suppressors on their automatic weapons and don't use flash grenades that leave shell casings after the fire."

"Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?"

Definitions of "civil war”:
- Recent civil wars in Central America have been uprisings of poor, rural people who are the majority against a small ruling class made up of the wealthy elite and the military.

- Some civil wars are also categorized as revolutions when major societal restructuring is a possible outcome of the conflict.

[edit on 14-7-2005 by Roth Joint]

You obviously are very uncomfortable with the facts presented to you. If you cannot accept the truth don’t try to get your way by means of foul play.

You don't get it. I could care less if you posted thousands of taser incidents. But this thread is about Titor not tasers.

I sincerely express my hope to others on this board not to stop sharing their insights regarding John Titor and neither to be scared away by those attempting to muzzle their freedom of speech in this way.

When was the last time you posted anything regarding Titor?
For the past 20+ pages or so you've done nothing but push your anti-police agenda, or whatever it is. To save your posts from being booted out of this thread you post that extremely weak argument that these are somehow "waco type events" that Titor talked about. You know good and well they aren't. That's worse than comparing a feather (which in this case would be taser incidents) to a machine gun (Waco).
You still haven't answered my questions period but I really do want to know the answer to this question:
"What would be your alternative (to law enforcement officers since you are obviously against them)? You need law and order, so if you were in charge, how would you run a country of 300 million without law enforcement officers?"

Everything I posted was and is related to John Titor. The monthly “WACO-type events” steadily getting worse can be recognized by observing the same methods being used by law enforcement officers upon American civilians in the WACO massacre.

What a load of Bull. You don't even know what happened at Waco. If you did, you wouldn't be trying to make the comparison.
Plus are you saying there are only 12 taser incidents a year? That's GREAT! How does having just one a month show them getting worse?

They represent the many deadly and damaging taser incidents becoming apparent around 2004.

Are you kidding? Tasers have been around for years!

And they are indeed steadily growing worse in this year 2005. It’s only a matter of time before organized groups opposing these methods "engage in maneuver and armed conflict."

Not one of your posts showed things getting worse.
Only a matter of time? Please, it was supposed to start last year. It's only a matter of time before you get a clue.

I have showed you many cases now. They are growing worse every week. Along with Officers of the Law being cleared time and time again from any prosecution for "wrongful death."

Worse every week? Are you serious!? Wow
Your state of delusion is getting worse every week. You haven't even showed them getting worse the past 10 years let alone week to week.
And have your read why those officers were cleared? No, I bet you haven't. I suggest you do.

These WACO-type deadly and damaging taser incidents became apparent around 2004 and are steadily getting worse as clearly witnessed in this year 2005.

Nothing about the taser incidents even remotely comes close to what happen at Waco. Get that through your thick skull. You think that's saving you in this thread, but it's not.
I asked you before and of course never got an answer:
Taser incidents are in no way going to cause a civil war, so what other Waco events are happening monthly in which there is armed conflict that's growing worse?
Or is tasers your saving grace? Tasers is it? Taser incidents that don't even affect .0001% of the population is going to cause millions of deaths starting this year?

Non-lethal taser use appearing to be quite lethal is a clear sign of this time period.

Titor mentioned nothing about non lethal tasers.
Titor said NEW non lethal weapon SYSTEMS. I posted earlier what was 100% more closer to what Titor was talking about than tasers. You ignored it of course because again, it didn't fit your anti law enforcement agenda.
Or because you have to be right even if it means Titor, who this who thing is about, is wrong.

It induces a fear among the US population as seen nowhere before.

I'm sorry, are you serious?

Would people be afraid in 1995 for their wives or children being tasered by their own officers of the law? Ofcourse not.

What are you living in a bubble or something?
When was the last time you actually got out in the real world. NO ONE except you is going around fearing being tasered for no reason by the police. NO ONE.

I would say the opposite. You're a fool if you do NOT think this country is worse than it was then.

Digging up old post I see.
Nevertheless, if you knew anything about US history, you wouldn't have said what you just said.
What a sad sad person you must be if this is your way of thinking.

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Titor clearly states that his family was merely avoiding conflict with the federal police and National Guard starting from 2006. [“From the age of 8 to 12, [ 2006 to 2010 ] we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and National Guard.”]
Again, with the situation in America as it is right now, we can see that clearly happening already

LOL
You're not American then. Because no where in America is the situation where people are afraid of the Federal Police and National Guard. The national guard aren't even called out anywhere!
I just went to a little kid's birthday party, his mother is a Fed. police officer. Not once did she threaten me

You won’t be laughing very long.
Dude, alot of our national guard are still in Iraq.
Name one place in America where people are running scared of the National Guard and Federal Police.

www.dailytexanonline.com...
-- A congressional report published last month said there is sufficient number of National Guard troops, who could be placed on the border within one month.

-- The congressional report further called on governors of Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico to request federal funding from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld for the mobilization of 36,000 National Guard troops.

-- Perry could not be reached regarding whether he has a plan to ask for the National Guard troops.

We're talking about Americans being running scared, not illegal Mexicans (in rural areas not cities)!
lol

Definitions of "civil war”:
- Recent civil wars in Central America have been uprisings of poor, rural people who are the majority against a small ruling class made up of the wealthy elite and the military.

- Some civil wars are also categorized as revolutions when major societal restructuring is a possible outcome of the conflict.

These are your definitions.
Not Titor's.
Not the dictionary's.
What is the purpose of this? If I say Ice cream is a hard, hot, black solid. That's my definition of Ice Cream. It doesn't matter what my definition is if it's false.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

You obviously are very uncomfortable with the facts presented to you. If you cannot accept the truth don’t try to get your way by means of foul play.

You don't get it. I could care less if you posted thousands of taser incidents. But this thread is about Titor not tasers.

I sincerely express my hope to others on this board not to stop sharing their insights regarding John Titor and neither to be scared away by those attempting to muzzle their freedom of speech in this way.

When was the last time you posted anything regarding Titor?
For the past 20+ pages or so you've done nothing but push your anti-police agenda, or whatever it is. To save your posts from being booted out of this thread you post that extremely weak argument that these are somehow "waco type events" that Titor talked about. You know good and well they aren't. That's worse than comparing a feather (which in this case would be taser incidents) to a machine gun (Waco).
You still haven't answered my questions period but I really do want to know the answer to this question:
"What would be your alternative (to law enforcement officers since you are obviously against them)? You need law and order, so if you were in charge, how would you run a country of 300 million without law enforcement officers?"

It's you who doesn't get it. As I said in my previous post: Non-lethal taser use appearing to be quite lethal is a clear sign of this time period. It's laughable you try to explain them away as if they would not be related to Titor's chronicles. Ofcourse they are. Titor mentioned these "non-lethal" weapon systems becoming quite lethal on several occasions.

The use of these monstrous weapon systems will induce a fear among the US population as seen nowhere before. Would people be afraid in 1995 for their wives or children being tasered by their own officers of the law? Ofcourse not.

You still aren't able to ask questions without pathetic insunuations. But that's apparently the character you are. I will answer your question with a question: Would you rather be pulled out of the car by your law enforcement officer or would you rather be tasered out of your car with the chance of instantly dying? Your choice. Now do you get it? Our law enforcement officcers have become so dependent on their tasers they will use them in the most ridiculous situations causing deaths time and time again where they simply could have been avoided by means of simple physical force!

ThatsJustWeird you are a ...! (sounds on boron too...)

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Jointl
Definitions of "civil war”:
- Recent civil wars in Central America have been uprisings of poor, rural people who are the majority against a small ruling class made up of the wealthy elite and the military.

- Some civil wars are also categorized as revolutions when major societal restructuring is a possible outcome of the conflict.

These are your definitions.
Not Titor's.
Not the dictionary's.
What is the purpose of this? If I say Ice cream is a hard, hot, black solid. That's my definition of Ice Cream. It doesn't matter what my definition is if it's false.

ThatsJustWeird, you are exhibiting such ludicrous pathetic behavior it's more than sad. These definitions come from our scientific oriented experts in history. en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Roth Joint
It's you who doesn't get it. As I said in my previous post: Non-lethal taser use appearing to be quite lethal is a clear sign of this time period. It's laughable you try to explain them away as if they would not be related to Titor's chronicles. Ofcourse they are. Titor mentioned these "non-lethal" weapon systems becoming quite lethal on several occasions.

No he didn't. He said there would be NEW non lethal weapons SYSTEMS that become lethal. I addressed this in a previous post. Tasers do NOT fit that description. It's not even close. It's YOU who is trying to make it fit into that description.
Besides how are tasers a sign of this time when they have been around for YEARS!?

Here's the post again, so you can't say you missed it:

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Anyway, can we please get off of tasers now?

Since you're too lazy to do your own research and have this one track mind of tasers tasers tasers....
You're completely missing things that are much more accurate to Titor's account of New weapon systems that are supposed to be non lethal but could be lethal.

Directed energy weapons

Military's Energy-Beam Weapons Delayed By BRIAN BERGSTEIN, AP Technology Writer
Sun Jul 10,11:22 AM ET

ARLINGTON, Va. - For years, the U.S. military has explored a new kind of firepower that is instantaneous, precise and virtually inexhaustible: beams of electromagnetic energy. "Directed-energy" pulses can be throttled up or down depending on the situation, much like the phasers on "Star Trek" could be set to kill or merely stun.

Such weapons are now nearing fruition. But logistical issues have delayed their battlefield debut — even as soldiers in Iraq encounter tense urban situations in which the nonlethal capabilities of directed energy could be put to the test.

I shouldn't be perpetuating the Titor myth like this (though I'm not really. I knew about such weapons for quite some time as I'm sure the author of the Titor story did) but I'm getting so sick of Roth talking about tasers. Do you really think tasers would be used in a war? Get real man.


More...

I have even more...
You would of course ignore it because you think Tasers are going to start a Civil War
What a ridiculous notion


You still aren't able to ask questions without pathetic insunuations. But that's apparently the character you are. I will answer your question with a question: Would you rather be pulled out of the car by your law enforcement officer or would you rather be tasered out of your car with the chance of instantly dying? Your choice.
1. If I'm told to get out, I'm going to get out on my own.
2. Not ONCE has anyone ever died instantly from a taser. NOT ONCE.

ThatsJustWeird, you are exhibiting such ludicrous pathetic behavior it's more than sad. These definitions come from our scientific oriented experts in history. en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
It's you who doesn't get it. As I said in my previous post: Non-lethal taser use appearing to be quite lethal is a clear sign of this time period. It's laughable you try to explain them away as if they would not be related to Titor's chronicles. Ofcourse they are. Titor mentioned these "non-lethal" weapon systems becoming quite lethal on several occasions.

No he didn't. He said there would be NEW non lethal weapons SYSTEMS that become lethal. I addressed this in a previous post. Tasers do NOT fit that description. It's not even close. It's YOU who is trying to make it fit into that description. Besides how are tasers a sign of this time when they have been around for YEARS!?

You make me laugh. Don't tell me innocent/defenseless people were continually tasered by their own law enforcement officers in 1995. Furthermore, we have discussed this already where I have told you in a previous post that Titor was merely referring to that term being used by the media.

Whatever you say, whatever meaningless empty words, accusations, insinuations or pathetic personal attacks you use, you are not able to deny increasing "non-lethal" taser use with most deadly results as " predicted" by John Titor.

And yes, as you wish, they will light up the fire of intensity of the US civil war. Don't forget, it all started in 2004..... and it's getting worse....

Originally posted by Roth Joint

You make me laugh. Don't tell me innocent/defenseless people were continually tasered by their own law enforcement officers in 1995.

If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Just because you weren't paying attention doesn't mean stuff didn't happen. Tasers have been around since the '70s. In the '90s is when it took off.
But you knew that already because you do all your own research[/sarcam]

Furthermore, we have discussed this already where I have told you in a previous post that Titor was merely referring to that term being used by the media.

The media says "taser"

Whatever you say, whatever meaningless empty words, accusations, insinuations or pathetic personal attacks you use, you are not able to deny increasing "non-lethal" taser use with most deadly results as " predicted" by John Titor.

Can you not read?
Not once did Titor mention taser. So how can he have predicted increasing taser use?
He said new weapon systems would be developed. Period. That's it. He did no say they would increase in use. He just said they'd be used. I posted stuff that again you ignored on what he could have been refering to. Those are new weapon systems. Not old weapons like the taser.
Not once have you shown that deaths have been on the increase. You posted articles where people have died of drugs or heart conditions. In not one of those articles did it say taser deaths have been on the increase.

And yes, as you wish, they will light up the fire of intensity of the US civil war. Don't forget, it all started in 2004..... and it's getting worse....

This is why I asked the question I asked before, and of course never got an answer.
How?
Tell me how tasers will lead to a civil war. Step by step.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint

You make me laugh. Don't tell me innocent/defenseless people were continually tasered by their own law enforcement officers in 1995.

If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?
Just because you weren't paying attention doesn't mean stuff didn't happen. Tasers have been around since the '70s. In the '90s is when it took off.
But you knew that already because you do all your own research[/sarcam]

Sigh. We'll have to repeat the loop over and over again until you ThatsJustWeird will finally learn to read and comprehend. Don't worry, we will do it with little baby steps for you. Patience is a good characteristic I suppose. Those NEWLY developed tasers have become so much more lethal since 2000 my friend:

www.corpwatch.org...
But those early Tasers were a far cry — a long, agonized scream, victims might say — from the powerful weapons being used by police today. In 2000, TASER International of Arizona introduced the M26, which the company touted as being nearly four times more powerful than its predecessors. Looking like something out of a sci-fi movie, the gun shoots two fish-hook-barbed electrical wires that can travel up to 21 feet and deliver a 50,000-volt shock in a cycle that lasts five seconds. It can also be fired by placing the weapon in direct contact with clothing or skin. The shock renders the recipient instantly immobile, and the five-second cycle may be increased if the officer continues to hold the trigger down. The M26, with bright yellow striping across a black body, comes equipped with “built-in laser sights and an onboard data chip that records the time and date of each firing to back up an officer’s use of force reports.”

As confirmed by the above quoted factual information, the newly developed tasers have become very lethal indeed since 2000. And the law enforcement officers will most definitely not stop using them as the US Civil War grows in it’s intensity.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Furthermore, we have discussed this already where I have told you in a previous post that Titor was merely referring to that term being used by the media.

The media says "taser"

Sigh again. I understand the media says "taser" ThatsJustWeird. But a " taser" is a so called "non-lethal" weapon right? And as I have shown to you above, the NEWLY developed tasers since 2000 have become quite lethal. And THAT's what John Titor meant when he said: "However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal. Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, "In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems…" When they use the word "enemy", they're talking about YOU!

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
How? Tell me how tasers will lead to a civil war. Step by step.

O how a fool can ask more questions than a wise man could ever answer.... you look but you cannot see.... you will see when 2008 has arrived....

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Sigh. We'll have to repeat the loop over and over again until you ThatsJustWeird will finally learn to read and comprehend. Don't worry, we will do it with little baby steps for you. Patience is a good characteristic I suppose. Those NEWLY developed tasers have become so much more lethal since 2000 my friend:

Sigh. I pray someday you'll get over your irrational fear but I'm not counting on it.
Titor said in 2001 that new weapon systems are being devloped.
In 2001 he said this.
New - meaning not old
Weapon systems - meaning something like I described in my previous post that you continue to ignore.
Tasers are not a new weapons system. They're just not. Whether new ones come out or not, unless it changes into something other than a taser it won't be a new weapon system. Period.

As confirmed by the above quoted factual information, the newly developed tasers have become very lethal indeed since 2000. And the law enforcement officers will most definitely not stop using them as the US Civil War grows in it’s intensity.

Nothing in that quote said anythig about it's lethalness.
And when have tasers ever been used in a war?
Those new weapon systems I posted about in the previous post are war time weapons. Something Titor would be talking about.

Sigh again. I understand the media says "taser" ThatsJustWeird. But a " taser" is a so called "non-lethal" weapon right?

No. Non lethal is part of how it's described. They're called tasers in the media. Period.

And as I have shown to you above, the NEWLY developed tasers since 2000 have become quite lethal. And THAT's what John Titor meant when he said: "However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal.

So John Titor said MANY. Hmmm...
Tasers are just one type of system.
Titor said "weapon systems in development". Hmmm....
Tasers have been around since the '70s

Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, "In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems…" When they use the word "enemy", they're talking about YOU!

More proof Titor wasn't talking about tasers. The SWAT and Army use more effective weapons (weapons as described in my post but you keep ignoring because of your anti law enforcement agenda). Police officers use tasers.

So these new weapon systems will be
1. New
2. The 'systems' is plural, so there'll be many
3. They'll be used by the Army and SWAT
Neither one of those describe tasers.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
How? Tell me how tasers will lead to a civil war. Step by step.

O how a fool can ask more questions than a wise man could ever answer.... you look but you cannot see.... you will see when 2008 has arrived....

Why can't you just answer the question?
And why do I have to wait until 2008? Titor said the war (in which organized groups engage and manuver in armed conflict) begins in 2004.

And please answer the question of, what's you alternative to police officers in a country with 300 million people?

dude with the matrix icon....your an idiot..you make us americans look bad...

I think Roth_Joint makes some good points...

however, my own view on Titor is that he's most a fraud. But importantly, no one has DISproven what he has said, either by

* science
* details in his story
* or tracking him down

it's open-ended how this all plays out...

Originally posted by BeyondTheTruthOfLies
dude with the matrix icon....your an idiot..you make us americans look bad...

Why thank you for that wonderful and insightful post. I can see already you are going to be a valued member of this community. Keep up the good work . Your expertise in time travel, national, and international affairs is astounding and I can only hope to attain the level of knowledge you have presented. Your mastery of words in unparalled. I can truely rest easy now knowing that people like you populate this earth. It's people like you who I just want to.....ugh.....give you all a big hug. Where would society be without people like you!? Again, thank you for your presence in this thread and on this site. Please....continue to grace us.

And hey, look at this! It's not just me who wants to say thank you!

Wow. Special company.

What's that? More thanks?


Unbelievable. You're a special person.




That's it. You've shown me the right way. From now on, I'll do my best to become more like you. Again, thanks for your time. Thanks for your contribution.


[edit on 15-7-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]

Originally posted by spikenigma
I think Roth_Joint makes some good points...

however, my own view on Titor is that he's most a fraud. But importantly, no one has DISproven what he has said, either by

* science
* details in his story
* or tracking him down

it's open-ended how this all plays out...

Finally Titor talk!
In relation to what Titor said, Roth has NOT proven or shown that taser incidents are equal to or greater than Waco. Titor specifically said that in 2004 a Waco type event would happen each month. Tasers incidents have been going on for years, so why would Titor specify a "Waco type event" each month and not "more taser incidents" each week/month/year, if he was talking about tasers? Waco was a shootout-standoff-shootout between the ATF and FBI and an organized cult/militia (hence, Titor said the war would be between organized groups). Taser incidents are regular police officers using tasers to subdue out of control or disobeying/resisting arrest suspects. It's not even close.

The only reason why Roth keeps going on with the tasers is because Titor, in a different context, said there would be new weapon systems developed. Titor said these would be used by the Army and SWAT teams. Tasers aren't used by the army and SWAT teams, and they aren't new weapon systems.
However these are non lethal weapons that can be deadly and are new weapon systems as Titor talked about:
Directed Energy Weapons
More on DEWs
More still.... (glossary)
Even more - the Marines Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Program

THESE are things Titor was talking about. Not tasers.


Disproving Titor by science -
Fairly easy. Time travel is impossible, period. Nothing Titor said has proven otherwise. There's a really good site (I'm almost sure it's in another thread, but I think it's also linked in this one) that breaks his "science" down even further. (I'll post it when I find it)

details in his story -
He was educated for sure, but most of the technical and scientific details of his story can and have been debunked. As far as his predictions....
There's really nothing he said that hasn't been said before. Anti government groups have been claiming for years that our rights are slowly being taken away. This is not new. The waco events that were supposed to happen each month, the Civil War starting, the west collapsing, all details in his story that haven't happened yet but were supposed to. The other details in his story were ripped from other works of fiction, most notebly Alas Babylon.

tracking him down -
Well the mods of most of the sites he visited knew what was up.
Are you talking about tracking him down in real life? Well he said John Titor was a real name, he didn't say it was his though.


Ahhh your post is a breath of fresh air. Please continue the Titor talk as this thread was orignally purposed!


[edit on 15-7-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Why thank you for that wonderful and insightful post. I can see already you are going to be a valued member of this community. Keep up the good work

. Your expertise in time travel, national, and international affairs is astounding and I can only hope to attain the level of knowledge you have presented. Your mastery of words in unparalled. I can truely rest easy now knowing that people like you populate this earth. It's people like you who I just want to.....ugh.....give you all a big hug. Where would society be without people like you!? Again, thank you for your presence in this thread and on this site. Please....continue to grace us.

And hey, look at this! It's not just me who wants to say thank you!
(pic)
Wow. Special company.

What's that? More thanks?
(pic)

Unbelievable. You're a special person.
(pic)

That's it. You've shown me the right way. From now on, I'll do my best to become more like you. Again, thanks for your time. Thanks for your contribution.

I am truly sorry to spam the thread with this, but I seriously think you deserve my vote for Way Above.

I am starting to lean toward John Titor being a hoax. I mean...I agree TJW. Tasers can't possibly compete with Waco. I know some of these taser deaths are horrible, but WACO...I can't even put into words. Sorry, Roth, but TJW's points are more valid than yours.

John Titor said that there would be a Waco-type event. I know your definition of Waco is "killing innocent and defenseless people," but how can you compare a taser with Waco? That's like comparing 9/11 with an RC plane running into a glass of water. There is just no way to fight this anymore. There is no civil war. We're not going to get nuked. John Titor is not a time traveller...

-Chris

[edit on 7/15/2005 by Legend]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Sigh. We'll have to repeat the loop over and over again until you ThatsJustWeird will finally learn to read and comprehend. Don't worry, we will do it with little baby steps for you. Patience is a good characteristic I suppose. Those NEWLY developed tasers have become so much more lethal since 2000 my friend:

Sigh. I pray someday you'll get over your irrational fear but I'm not counting on it.
Titor said in 2001 that new weapon systems are being devloped.
In 2001 he said this. New - meaning not old Weapon systems - meaning something like I described in my previous post that you continue to ignore. Tasers are not a new weapons system. They're just not. Whether new ones come out or not, unless it changes into something other than a taser it won't be a new weapon system. Period.
***
So John Titor said MANY. Hmmm...
Tasers are just one type of system.
Titor said "weapon systems in development". Hmmm....
Tasers have been around since the '70s

You can bend or twist it however you want it, but the newly developed taser stun-guns are the new “non-lethal” weapon systems John Titor was referring to. Without a doubt there are other “non-lethal” devices but none have proven to be as lethal as the new tasers being used by our own officers of the law, exactly as John Titor “predicted” it.

Titor was referring to the newly developed “non-lethal” tasers. No other new “non-lethal” weapon has proven to be as lethal as the new tasers being around at the time Titor “predicted” their lethalness. And yes there are MANY of them around nowadays and used by our officers of the law. As I addressed in a previous post to you: Have we been informed of so many taser-deaths in the news around 2000? These instruments (or mobile electric chairs as they are called nowadays – I wonder why?) were hardly known to the public in general at that time. These newly developed tasers are indeed the “non-lethal” weapon systems Titor was referring to and appearing to be quite lethal.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, "In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems…" When they use the word "enemy", they're talking about YOU!

More proof Titor wasn't talking about tasers. The SWAT and Army use more effective weapons (weapons as described in my post but you keep ignoring because of your anti law enforcement agenda). Police officers use tasers.

So these new weapon systems will be
1. New
2. The 'systems' is plural, so there'll be many
3. They'll be used by the Army and SWAT
Neither one of those describe tasers.

1. Mmmh lets see. Let’s take a look at the old tasers:
”Since the 1950s, guards at jails and prisons have used stun batons — cattle prods — and stun belts on prisoners considered to be dangerous. Those devices carry a jolt of about 5,000 to 10,000 volts. Then in the early 1970s, police began using early-generation TASERS — an acronym for Thomas A. Swift’s Electric Rifle. The punch these early Tasers carried was equivalent to or slightly stronger than that of a stun baton.

Now lets take a look at the newly developed tasers:
”Looking like something out of a sci-fi movie, the gun shoots two fish-hook-barbed electrical wires that can travel up to 21 feet and deliver a 50,000-volt shock in a cycle that lasts five seconds. It can also be fired by placing the weapon in direct contact with clothing or skin. The shock renders the recipient instantly immobile, and the five-second cycle may be increased if the officer continues to hold the trigger down.”

No doubt about it. This newly developed taser device is an entire new “non-lethal” weapon.

2. Yes there are a great many newly developed “non-lethal” tasers in use by our own law enforcement officers.
www.policeone.com...
......now carried by officers in more than 7,000 of the nation's 18,000 law enforcement agencies.

Without a doubt there are other new “non-lethal” weapons but none have proven to be as lethal to the common US civilian as the new tasers being used by our own officers of the law, exactly as John Titor “predicted” it.

3. Now let us analyse Titor’s words:
”However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal.”
A great many. Let’s assume John Titor meant a great many as in quantities as well as varieties. And those great many “non-lethal” weapon systems would turn out to be quite lethal. So clearly that wasn’t happening around the time he mentioned it.

“Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons.”
I watch your television programs. No doubt John Titor is referring to…. our television programs during that time. Those television programs show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. What kind of new non-lethal weapons were the SWAT teams testing during the time John Titor mentioned it? Exactly! The newly developed “non-lethal” tasers shooting two fish-hook-barbed electrical wires travelling up to 21 feet delivering a 50,000-volt shock! Was John Titor referring to the SWAT teams or the use of new non-lethal weapons? The latter ofcourse. John Titor was trying to make something clear. He wanted to give an example. What was he trying to make clear when he referred to our television programs showing SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons? Let’s see…

”They usually start out with, "In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems…"”
They. Who are they? The television programs John Titor was referring to ofcourse. And they usually start out with: “In the future, the army and police will fight it’s enemies with new weapons systems.” Apparently John Titor wanted to make clear that something would happen in the future. These “new weapon systems” would be used by the army and police to fight their enemies. But who are their enemies?

”When they use the word "enemy", they're talking about YOU!”
Who….ME? Me the US civilian? Me the reader of John Titor’s quotes? YES! So the army and police as officers of the law will be my enemy? They will see me as their enemy? And they will fight me with their new non-lethal weapons? YES!

”You don't really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you?”
Why would John Titor mention Marines jumping out of helicopters? Because this was the image that those television programs projected during that time. Titor was using a hyperbole in his language. An exaggeration of speech. It was about the relatively innocent “sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights” versus the deadly effects of those new “non-lethal” weapon systems. Titor was clearly referring to the new “non-lethal” weapon systems appearing to be quite lethal being used by authorities upon their enemies….YOU!

Who are these authorities? Firstly our own officers of the law, secondly the army. Titor made no mistake about it what he meant when mentioning WACO-type events steadily getting worse. Was he referring to WACO because of the great fire or because in his viewpoint the law enforcement officers were responsible for the death of innocent/defenceless people? Why don’t we let Titor say it himself:
“Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?”

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Titor said the war (in which organized groups engage and manuver in armed conflict) begins in 2004.

He never said that. However he said: ”The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.”

WACO=
- Innocent/defenseless people dying
- while pleading for help, mercy or their lives
- while the law enforcement officers responsible for their
death are cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death."
- authorities spreading disinformation regarding the incident to the mass media

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
And please answer the question of, what's you alternative to police officers in a country with 300 million people?
***
(weapons as described in my post but you keep ignoring because of your anti law enforcement agenda).

Your insinuations are sickening. I will have to correct the absurdity of your statements. Stop trying to pretend as if I am against law, order and rights. Ofcourse I have nothing against law enforcement officers practising their honourable duty.

However I do detest officers of the law using methods upon innocent/defenceless civilians, weapons that are inflicting such severe pain, irreversible damage and death which aforementioned easily could have been prevented simply by the use of old fashioned physical force, either with or without the use of the old fashioned baton.

But it seems that we are ironically losing law, order and rights simply because of the “wild west” attitudes of our own officers of the law using tasers randomly in the most ridiculous and unnecessary circumstances. What happened to old fashioned physical force?

Not comparable to what happened in WACO??? Don't make me laugh. The amount of the overwhelming deadly force used upon a handful of shooters in a building together with 75 unarmed and defenseless men, women, fathers, mothers and children??? Is that not comparable to the amount of the overwhelming potentially deadly force of a 50,000 volt fish-hook-barbed electrical wires shooting taser electrocuting the bodies of unarmed and defenseless men, women, fathers, mothers and children for at least 5 seconds??? Think again, please. In both cases an overwhelming force in no comparison to the force of it's opponent. Look around you and open your eyes and even more important, your hearts and common sense!

You only use 50.000 volts sticking to the body for at least 5 seconds in the worst possible scenario and NOT on defenceless men, women or children!!! You are simply an animal of the worst kind if you agree upon that. Period!

[edit on 15-7-2005 by Roth Joint]

Once you expand titor's predictions to include recently conquered american territory it becomes clear that the civil war is indeed escalating...

I CAN SUM IT UP, IT STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN, I NEED SOME WADERS .

....."I have nothing against law enforcement officers practising their honourable duty. However I do detest officers of the law using methods upon innocent/defenceless civilians, weapons that are inflicting such severe pain, irreversible damage and death which aforementioned easily could have been prevented simply by the use of old fashioned physical force, either with or without the use of the old fashioned baton."

www.channel3000.com...

Police Shoot Naked Man With Taser Gun

POSTED: 6:46 am CDT July 15, 2005
UPDATED: 7:12 am CDT July 15, 2005

MADISON, Wis. -- Police shot a 29-year-old man with a Taser gun on Madison's east side early Friday.

Residents reported an unnamed man approaching people in the North Sherman Avenue area around 3 a.m. and officers found him at the Citgo on Fordem Avenue. Police said the man advanced on the officers and fought with them before they sprayed him with OC spray shot him with a Taser gun.

The man and two officers were taken to a local hospital for treament of minor injuries.

News 3 and Channel 3000 will have more information later today.


WACO=
- Innocent/defenseless people dying
- while pleading for help, mercy or their lives
- while the law enforcement officers responsible for their
death are cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death."
- authorities spreading disinformation regarding the incident to the mass media

In this case the subject didn't die but surely disinformation regarding the circumstances leading to potentially lethal taser use has been spread:

www.thenewsdispatch.com...

Police, witnesses' stories don't jibe

Rick A. Richards, City Editor
Friday, July 15, 2005

I wasn't at Stop 2 Sunday night, so I didn't see what happened between Michigan City police officer Marty Corley and 22-year-old Aaron Hampton.

About the only thing everyone agrees on is that Corley pulled a Taser and zapped Hampton, who was arrested for disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.

Anything else is up for debate.

According to the police report, Hampton was uncooperative and threatened Corley.

Hampton disagrees, telling me he never threatened anyone. He said he was tossing a football with friends, and that he playfully faked a toss at Corley.

Corley wrote in his report that he told Hampton and his friends he wasn't at the beach to play and that Hampton should "tone it down."

Hampton said he then told a friend to check out an officer's legs (by this time, other officers, some of whom were wearing shorts, had arrived). Hampton said he made the aside in fun.

In his report, though, Corley wrote that Hampton said derogatory things about police, and told Hampton to leave the beach or be arrested.

Things then got chaotic. Hampton and his friends, not happy about being told to leave, started walking down a path toward the parking lot at Stop 2 near Colfax and California. Apparently they weren't moving quickly enough and words were exchanged between police and Hampton. Corley said Hampton threatened to kill him, a charge Hampton and his friends deny. The police report says that's what led to Hampton getting a five-second zap from Corley's Taser.

"My friends told me I was flopping around on the ground like a fish," Hampton said.

What's happened since, however, is what has me scratching my head. I've gotten nearly a dozen telephone calls and e-mails from people who saw the incident - some of them are Hampton's friends - who all describe a situation that was handled poorly by police.

A friend of Hampton's e-mailed me saying, "The situation began when the officer came to the beach telling people to get off 'his' beach."

She said that after Hampton was Tasered, "The expression on the officer's face was disturbing. It appeared as if he was thrilled to be given this opportunity."

A U.S. Army veteran who just got home from Iraq told me, "What happened just wasn't right. He (Hampton) was doing everything police told him and they still Tasered him."

A New Buffalo, Mich., man wrote that he took his nephews to the lakefront to watch the fireworks and was so disgusted by what he saw, that he left. "I and the tons of people who were down there were stunned. These men did not one thing to be treated this way . . . "

Another e-mail read, "This does not sound like the Aaron I know. It sounds like sometimes the officer isn't always right."

A couple who knows Hampton wrote, "In the time we've know Aaron, not once has this young man been disrespectful to us or any other adult.

"We have been . . . Michigan City resident(s) all our life. I work, shop and do everything in Michigan City . . . It's a shame that I have to tell our child to stay out of Michigan City, go to Chicago, go to Pine Lake, (to) stay away (from) Michigan City beaches."

The stories simply don't jibe. Maybe we'll start to get some answers on Monday, when this whole mess gets its first hearing in Superior Court 4.

[edit on 15-7-2005 by Roth Joint]

John Titor:

"For a few months now, I have bee trying to alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war in the United States in 2005. Does that seem more likely now?"

......."perhaps its more interesting to consider what I won't be doing to try and stop that war."

"Once you expand titor's predictions to include recently conquered american territory it becomes clear that the civil war is indeed escalating..."



so all you have to do is stretch his fantasies and fiction to conform to current events and he's legit ?

nice technique.

please see my sig