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The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

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posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 01:13 AM
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I don't know why i am posting still on ATS because every thread I have ever been involved in has been ignored and every post has barely received a reply and the ability to proceed with an intelligent conversation in any thread I have ever been involved in has been met with incompetent resistance. Anyway I just feel the need to chime in on Titor and 2005.

Whether or not this most likely fraud of a prophet is actually correct is meaningless compared to the actual message he is carrying should it be proven to be true. Let's play devil's advocate. If sometime in what's left of 2005 there is another terror attack in the United States I will go out and predict the following events that will immediately proceed it which include Civil War.

Situation Prototype: Nuclear, Chemical, Biological 911

Response: FEMA and the govt. order martial law, close the borders, lock down the cities and more Patriot Acts get passed through the Senate lobby than actual patriots. Then what happens? You have a domestic situation going out of control with people terrified and the government doing away with civil liberties. There also must be some sort of military response. An immediate mandatory draft would be started to go to war against whatever Arab nation is the flavor of the month. You honestly believe that EVERY American is going to go by this playbook? and if you think that these scenarios are impossible, well then you are obviously lacking in understanding the laws of this country that is based on previous and current policies.

You will have tens of millions in the streets demanding change but not the change they will end up getting. The government would have failed AGAIN to protect the people and you end up with literally a divided America feuding in the streets of every town, village and city. Another Terror attack would be the final FINAL straw that would burst this country's bubble of ignorance. You will then have your Civil War I promise you that much.




posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 10:04 AM
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I don't know RebelSaint.
It depends on alot of factors.

If it was just one terrorist attack like that (nuke, chem, bio) I really don't think a Civil War would necessarily come from that. Look what happened after 9/11. We unite after tragedies (we'd still be united if we had just focused on the war on terror and not went into Iraq). Imagine how much more united we'd be after a devestating attack like that.
I do think we'd probably close the borders for a couple days, and this country would be on lockdown. Only the city where the nuke went off would be under martial law. It's impossible to have the whole country under. There just aren't enough military and police officers for that.
And the military response will not require a draft. If fact, the military response has a good chance of lasting only one day. Those responsible and their host country would be wiped though.


Now if there were more than one nuke/chem/bio attacks. It would depend greatly on our response. With more than one, then a draft could be in place. And that would be to keep this country in order/under martial law. If most of the government has been wiped out in the attacks and there's a lasting power void or if the military keeps the country under martial law too long, then you'd be more likely to see a Civil War break out.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 01:23 PM
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thatsjustweird,
I really don't believe another attack would unify the country. I believe it would have the opposite effect and polarize the nation into defacto civil war.

I'm not so sure that only the cities affected would be under martial law. What about the fallout area and people need to be evacuated for hundreds of miles in all directions? There has to be some sort of coherent evacuation and I don't see millions of Americans able to accomplish this. That is a government duty. That's why martial law would be enacted.

What if the identified terrorists come from several different countries. maybe 4, 5, 6 different nations? Nukem all? What if they are home-grown terrorists? I think you would see a 21st century eviqualvent to the Salem Witch hunts taking place here. A Homeland Security Force made out of conscription would and will take place. That's the draft. You need people to protect the people from themselves.

Is the the possible future everyone would want? A president playing cowboy sitting atop a nuclear missile leading the country into armageddon? And I mean armageddon as in WW3, nuclear winter and massive death across the world.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by RebelSaint
thatsjustweird,
I really don't believe another attack would unify the country. I believe it would have the opposite effect and polarize the nation into defacto civil war.

How?

What's the difference between the 9/11, Pearl Harbor attacks and a nuke or other wmd attack? There is none except scale. If those attacks united this nation surley an attack on a much larger scale would. I don't see that not happening. You'd have millions of angry Americans wanting revenge. Most people don't think like the people here on ATS and automatically assume that the government did this for no reason.


I'm not so sure that only the cities affected would be under martial law. What about the fallout area and people need to be evacuated for hundreds of miles in all directions?

Well then you're talking more than a terrorist attack. Such a weapon would only be from a recognized country. It would be an act of war then.


There has to be some sort of coherent evacuation and I don't see millions of Americans able to accomplish this.

Perhaps you missed the news in the past few days?
The evacs from the hurricane...
Over a million people evacuated. That was nothing new. The evacuation of millions of people is nothing new, it happens almost every hurricane season.
You underestimate the American people.


That is a government duty. That's why martial law would be enacted.

A government duty to do what? If a city has been nuked, you think people would just stay around? They'd get out of there on their own! The government would only make sure no one gets back into that city.


What if the identified terrorists come from several different countries. maybe 4, 5, 6 different nations? Nukem all? What if they are home-grown terrorists?

Even if it was just one country, I don't think we'd nuke the whole country or use nukes at all. We have plenty of firepower to accomplish the same thing as nukes without all the radiation. If it was home grown terrorists, then them and their whole gang would meet a swift end.


I think you would see a 21st century eviqualvent to the Salem Witch hunts taking place here. A Homeland Security Force made out of conscription would and will take place. That's the draft. You need people to protect the people from themselves.

America's more civilized than you think.
If it's found out it's Islamic terrorists then yeah you'd probably have some people trying to take out their anger on muslims or people of middle eastern decent here, but total chaos to the point where it's a civil war and a draft is needed? I seriously doubt that.


Is the the possible future everyone would want? A president playing cowboy sitting atop a nuclear missile leading the country into armageddon? And I mean armageddon as in WW3, nuclear winter and massive death across the world.

Whoever attacked us would be the one responsible for bringing about WW3. And like I said earlier, retaliation doesn't necessarily have to come in the form of nukes. Especially if it's not a country like Russia or China.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 04:28 PM
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want too see a tasering video that is totally unexceptable? have fun

www.big-boys.com...



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

How?

What's the difference between the 9/11, Pearl Harbor attacks and a nuke or other wmd attack? There is none except scale.


Well there's actually a great deal of similarity between the attacks on 9/11 and the Pearl Harbor attack and other supposed foreign attacks such as the Gulf of Tonkin incident. What I have come to understand through extensive research and investigation and I can supply you with more than enough sources so you can draw your own conclusions as well but the point is these were incidents either fabricated or allowed to happen by the administrations in power. Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen as an excuse to galvanize the people to enter WWII. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was a fabrication of the imagination of LBJ and it was used as propaganda for continued support of the war effort. 9/11 was the new Pearl Harbor event needed to galvanize American support for a policy of securing scarce resources that are crucial to the continued dominance and expansion of American interests and security. I think another major attack especially a WMD attack would no longer continue the problem-reaction-solution equation used by the elites in power but would instead finally be the breaking point where people say enough is enough and we won't tolerate incompetance at the highest levels regardless of complicity and guilt in the incident.


I'm not so sure that only the cities affected would be under martial law. What about the fallout area and people need to be evacuated for hundreds of miles in all directions?

Well then you're talking more than a terrorist attack. Such a weapon would only be from a recognized country. It would be an act of war then.



Perhaps you missed the news in the past few days?
The evacs from the hurricane...
Over a million people evacuated. That was nothing new. The evacuation of millions of people is nothing new, it happens almost every hurricane season.
You underestimate the American people.


Being an American citizen, I underestimate nothing when it comes to the resilience, strength, and heroic actions and attitudes of my fellow Americans. However those hurricane states were declared States of Emergency and drawing from the lessons of 9/11, whenever a state of emergency is declared FEMA becomes the governing body in charge of the nation. Yes, there would be evacauation and heroic actions on the part of regular citizens but there would also be tremendous anarchy in the affected areas and there's no denying that. This total loss of control would have to be stopped and only declaring a state of emergency and martial law would be proven methods to restore law and order.



A government duty to do what? If a city has been nuked, you think people would just stay around? They'd get out of there on their own! The government would only make sure no one gets back into that city.


What if the method of attack was chemical or biological? The city would be QUARANTINED. Which means no one is allowed to enter or leave except military personnel in order to stop the spread of whatever outbreak they are facing. Imagine the panic you would have with uninfected people trying to leave the city and the military blocades shooting at ordinary citizens for the greater good of the people? I promise you if a major city was quarantined you would not have everyone staying at home waiting with the patience of saints to find out the status of their future. People would take to the streets.



Even if it was just one country, I don't think we'd nuke the whole country or use nukes at all. We have plenty of firepower to accomplish the same thing as nukes without all the radiation. If it was home grown terrorists, then them and their whole gang would meet a swift end.


The question remains where are you going to find the manpower to deal with a possible domestic terrorism outbreak? Or another country that needs to be de-terrorized? American people will either be drafted to serve the Homeland or abroad or option B would be international troops coming to restore order and the majority of Americans will refuse at almost all costs to have a foreign army on our soil for whatever legitimate reason. The concern is that entire groups based on race, religion, affiliation would be targeted as possible terrorist suspects. This is precisely the slippery slope down the fascist pole.



America's more civilized than you think.
If it's found out it's Islamic terrorists then yeah you'd probably have some people trying to take out their anger on muslims or people of middle eastern decent here, but total chaos to the point where it's a civil war and a draft is needed? I seriously doubt that.


Whenever we are at war with someone we tend to demonize the enemy. If its the Islamic threat again then is it so far-fetched to imagine placing all American Muslims and worshippers of Islam into "camps" for their own protection? We did this to the Germans and Japanese Americans during WW2.



Whoever attacked us would be the one responsible for bringing about WW3. And like I said earlier, retaliation doesn't necessarily have to come in the form of nukes. Especially if it's not a country like Russia or China.


Our military force is spread too thin already. Opening another front even if it was CUBA or an insignificant nation with a minimal threat to us would still require MORE TROOPS. We can't get them from the international community so the only place to find more cannon fodder for wars of resources would be from the citizenry.

The point is we are approaching a perfect storm of events that are threatening our very way of life. It is terrorism + American foreign and domestic policy + scarce resources (peak oil) = a global conflict already underway but hasn't reached full apex yet. But it will very very soon.

Just ask yourself these questions as they relate to America's future based on the current political atmosphere.

Which is more likely to happen in the near future? Peace or terror?

Which is more likely to be the dominant ideology in 10 years? War or Peace?

God Bless America. God Help America.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by ithilin
want too see a tasering video that is totally unexceptable? have fun

www.big-boys.com...


Absolutely horrific. This is the US police torturing innocent and defenseless women and children for fun. These monsters are our officers of the law. And it will get much worse this year.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by RebelSaint
It is terrorism + American foreign and domestic policy + scarce resources (peak oil) = a global conflict already underway but hasn't reached full apex yet. But it will very very soon.


It's already happening. Oil prices will increase and won't come down. OPEC is already delivering at near full capacity. And our own law enforcement officers will light up the rest of the fire.

Ofcourse ThatsJustWeird will deny everything. I have to admit, it's a strategy one can use even if it makes one look a bit silly.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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Another WACO-type event/method in which "non-lethal" tasers used upon innocent and defenseless US civilians cause another tragic loss of life.

www.dallasnews.com...

Teen dies 2 days after Taser shots

Tarrant County: It's 4th death since November to be linked to device

08:50 PM CDT on Tuesday, July 12, 2005

By DEBRA DENNIS / The Dallas Morning News

A Grapevine teenager died Tuesday, two days after Euless police say they shot the youth three times with a Taser while he was high on drugs.

Kevin Omas, 17, was critically injured when he was taken to John Peter Smith Hospital early Sunday.

Mr. Omas is the fourth person in Tarrant County since November to die after being shot with a Taser.

Final rulings haven't been made in Mr. Omas' death and a Fort Worth death last month. In two earlier deaths in Fort Worth, the medical examiner ruled that the victims died from coc aine intoxication.

The Tarrant County medical examiner's office is conducting an autopsy to determine how Mr. Omas died, officials said.

Euless police are also investigating the incident, Assistant Police Chief Harland Westmoreland said.

Through a hospital spokesman, Mr. Omas' family members declined to comment Tuesday.

Officers were called to a home in the 800 block of West Ash Lane about 4 a.m. Sunday after reports that Mr. Omas had overdosed, Chief Westmoreland said.

"The people who were with him are saying he ingested four hits of '___' and two tabs of ecstasy," Chief Westmoreland said. "He ingested them all at the same time, and that caused him to lose control."

Mr. Omas, police said, was belligerent and refused to obey police orders.

"He charged officers repeatedly," he said.

A supervisor who was on the scene fired all three shots. Tasers project small darts, delivering 50,000 volts of electricity with each shot, police said.

The first shot failed to stop Mr. Omas from charging officers.

"The Taser was the only way for us to get control," Chief Westmoreland said.

A second round from the Taser was fired after Mr. Omas stood and flailed his arms at officers. He was handcuffed after a third shot, and five officers were able to restrain him, police said.

"They were able to put him down after the third time," he said.

Mr. Omas was treated at the scene by paramedics and transported to the hospital, Chief Westmoreland said.

Criminal justice and medical experts have said most deaths associated with Tasers happen to victims with lethal amounts of drugs in their systems or those who are in poor health. Policing experts say that Tasers remain the best option for subduing people and that every nonlethal policing method will end in some deaths.

Fort Worth police are also awaiting autopsy results after a 35-year-old woman died 90 minutes after an officer shot her with a Taser.

Carolyn Daniels, 35, died last month at a Fort Worth hospital. Police used a Taser after she began attacking a vehicle and disobeying police orders. Ms. Daniels appeared to be intoxicated. A crack pipe was found in her possession, police said.

In April, Midland architect Eric Hammock, 43, led Fort Worth officers on a car and foot chase after trespassing on private property. Authorities said Mr. Hammock, who was in Fort Worth on business, tried to hit an officer before he was shot with the Taser. The medical examiner ruled the cause of death coc aine intoxication.

The first of the four deaths occurred in November, when Robert Guerrero, 21, died after being shot with a Taser by police. His cause of death also was listed as coc aine intoxication.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 09:27 AM
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it is difficult for anybody to say they are a time traveler without them soundin crazy.

if john titor was tellin the truth about all this, then we would still find it hard to believe becuase we do not understand time travel yet, only in theory.

maybe in 2036 we will see if he was real or not and we can all look back and think whethter you wasted a few hours reading the full story of john titor

there is one thing that JT said that will always make we wonder, "if you went back in time, what would you have to say to make people believe you"?

regardless if this is true or not it is a good read if you havent read it yet read it NOW. some crazy stuff in that story, intriging



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by Roth Joint
Absolutely horrific. This is the US police torturing innocent and defenseless women and children for fun. These monsters are our officers of the law. And it will get much worse this year.

Please tell me you think this is the norm. Please tell me you think this happens all the time. Please tell me.
It would confirm so much stuff. So please, please tell me.



Rebel Saint:
As I said before, the vast majority of the people don't think that way. If there's a WMD attack on US soil only hard core conspiricist will automatically assume that the US government is responsible without hearing or seeing any evidence.
(a little OT, but I really would like to see any evidence you have that made you come to the conclusion Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen)


Yes, there would be evacauation and heroic actions on the part of regular citizens but there would also be tremendous anarchy in the affected areas and there's no denying that. This total loss of control would have to be stopped and only declaring a state of emergency and martial law would be proven methods to restore law and order.

Yeah declaring martial law in the affected areas would be what happens.




I promise you if a major city was quarantined you would not have everyone staying at home waiting with the patience of saints to find out the status of their future. People would take to the streets.

You're talking about people in the affected city taking to the streets? I seriously doubt that. If we're talking about a chem or bio attack, we're talking about some serious stuff. I doubt many would leave their homes.
If you're talking about people in other cities taking to the streeets, well....that's not happening. It would be pointless.




The question remains where are you going to find the manpower to deal with a possible domestic terrorism outbreak?

Define domestic terrorism "outbreak"?
Unless you're talking about 10s of thousands of domestic terrorists, you're not going to need a draft.


Or another country that needs to be de-terrorized?

You still wouldn't need a draft. With our technology (plus our 1.4+ million troops), proper military planning is all you need (something that happened somewhat for Afghan, but not for Iraq).




Whenever we are at war with someone we tend to demonize the enemy. If its the Islamic threat again then is it so far-fetched to imagine placing all American Muslims and worshippers of Islam into "camps" for their own protection? We did this to the Germans and Japanese Americans during WW2.

Depending on the scale of the attack this is not far-fetched....but it is. There could be a sizeable amount, but definately not all. We didn't send all Japanese and all German Americans to those camps.




Our military force is spread too thin already. Opening another front even if it was CUBA or an insignificant nation with a minimal threat to us would still require MORE TROOPS. We can't get them from the international community so the only place to find more cannon fodder for wars of resources would be from the citizenry.

I don't think you realize the amount of our troops not fighting right now and are still active. Over a million.
Plus, we're talking about a nuke, bio, or chem attack here. If we were WMDed, we'd have every country on our side. The international community would be behind us 100%.


Which is more likely to happen in the near future? Peace or terror?

If you're talking about here on American soil and overall, it would be peace. OK city, 1st NYC bombing, 9/11. Just 3 events in the past 15 years here on American soil. Abroad is a different story


Which is more likely to be the dominant ideology in 10 years? War or Peace?

Like most things, this also goes in cycles. I can see a war ideology in the next 10 years. But unless something drastic happens (which is possible), I don't think there'll be another major war for a while.


Roth again:

It's already happening. Oil prices will increase and won't come down. OPEC is already delivering at near full capacity. And our own law enforcement officers will light up the rest of the fire.

Ofcourse ThatsJustWeird will deny everything. I have to admit, it's a strategy one can use even if it makes one look a bit silly.

You're a (rhymes with boron).
When and where in this thread have I ever talking about oil? How could you possibly know how I feel about oil. My goodness man, are you really such a.....such a....(bannable word)??
Seriously, look through this thread again, the only think I told you was that there was a Peak Oil section here on ATS.

The general trend since the early '90s has been up for oil prices (along with most other things) with a big dip in '99. That upward trend is likely to continue. It'll be a few years at least before they hit near '81 prices.



(also, you seem to be very anti-law enforcement, which begs the question......what would be your alternative? You need law and order, so if you were in charge, how would you run a country of 300 million without law enforcement officers?)

(also, are you saying that all the people at Waco were high on drugs and died that way? Why else would you be comparing people who died of drugs to Waco?)

Anyway, BACK TO TITOR! When was the last time you mentioned Titor Roth?



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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Rebel Saint:
As I said before, the vast majority of the people don't think that way. If there's a WMD attack on US soil only hard core conspiricist will automatically assume that the US government is responsible without hearing or seeing any evidence.
(a little OT, but I really would like to see any evidence you have that made you come to the conclusion Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen)


The following took 3 minutes of googling and some of my bookmarks.

www.supportthetruth.com...
www.bigeye.com...
www.geocities.com...
www.apfn.org...
whatreallyhappened.com...

I have seen the Hilo Tribune Herald newspaper with the headline "JAPAN MAY STRIKE OVER WEEKEND" dated NOVEMBER 30TH. The actual attack took place December 7th. I have it from a documentary I downloaded that I would glady take a snapshot of if someone would explain to me the proper way of doing so. The point is the US knew of Japanese intentions before they attacked.

Another attack would have nothing to do with conspiracist and I didn't even know about any of these "conspiracies" 6 months ago and still regret ever getting into this whole mess. The point is another attack would finally be the last straw that would ignite some sort of radical change.



You're talking about people in the affected city taking to the streets? I seriously doubt that. If we're talking about a chem or bio attack, we're talking about some serious stuff. I doubt many would leave their homes.
If you're talking about people in other cities taking to the streeets, well....that's not happening. It would be pointless.


So if a chem or bio attack happened in your area and you didn't think you were infected but you wanted to get your family out but the military would not let you leave the quarantine zone you would do what? go back peacefully to your home? Yeah right.




Define domestic terrorism "outbreak"?
Unless you're talking about 10s of thousands of domestic terrorists, you're not going to need a draft.


Domestic terrorism in the context I meant it in would be all who dissent against the government and the state during a state of emergency. Martial Law would be used to quell the citizens who are protesting what is happening.


You still wouldn't need a draft. With our technology (plus our 1.4+ million troops), proper military planning is all you need (something that happened somewhat for Afghan, but not for Iraq).


1.4 million is fine and dandy but your not being realistic with these assumptions of American military strength. Yes we can destroy 90% of a country before a marine sets foot in it but another invasion into ANY country would require a draft. Plain and simple.



Depending on the scale of the attack this is not far-fetched....but it is. There could be a sizeable amount, but definately not all. We didn't send all Japanese and all German Americans to those camps.


No not all of them. JUST EVERY JAP ON THE WEST COAST.
We sent SEVERAL THOUSANDS to the camps. Go see for yourself.

www.teacheroz.com...


I don't think you realize the amount of our troops not fighting right now and are still active. Over a million.
Plus, we're talking about a nuke, bio, or chem attack here. If we were WMDed, we'd have every country on our side. The international community would be behind us 100%.


What good is it having world opinion on your side? We act unilaterally when we deem it necessary. We had the favor of the world during 9/11. We didn't have it during the Iraq War. What difference did it make? If we were attacked by a WMD, I promise you the world would not want us to strike back with a WMD because the implications would be a thermonuclear world war. And if not, other nuclear ready countries can justify using their WMD arsenal offensively or whenever they want to because the US has done so.


If you're talking about here on American soil and overall, it would be peace. OK city, 1st NYC bombing, 9/11. Just 3 events in the past 15 years here on American soil. Abroad is a different story


Wow, can I buy some pot from you? There hasn't been peace in this country in a long time. All 3 events you named have so many suspicions about them that they are acts of war in my opinion. Each one is DOMESTIC TERRORISM. OK city is its own giant conspiracy. The 1993 bombing WAS ADMITTED BY THE FBI TO BE THEIR OWN WORK AND PLANNING. THIS WAS BLOWN UP BY A NY TIMES ARTICLE and Ahmad Salom or whoever the lead terrorist was TAPERECORDED THE FBI TELLING HIM TO GO AHEAD WITH THE BOMBING. It's public record. The FBI admits it. Why is it so hard to assume that 9/11 was not also a domestic plot by our own intelligence forces?


Like most things, this also goes in cycles. I can see a war ideology in the next 10 years. But unless something drastic happens (which is possible), I don't think there'll be another major war for a while.


Well if it goes in cycles, then I have yet to see a 50 year period in history that a major war did not take place in. The entire 20th century was one giant continuous battlefield. I hope another major war won't happen but all signs point to the opposite. Iran, Nuclear Korea, Taiwan's days as free are numbered. Too much American interests everywhere around the world that requires our military response a great portion of the time.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

The general trend since the early '90s has been up for oil prices.
It'll be a few years at least before they hit near '81 prices.



Where have you been? This Year, OIL broke all time records and was well above the 1981 high. You said it would be a few years before it got back to the 1981 prices. If by "in a few years" you really meant A FEW MONTHS AGO. Then you would have been correct. Seriously, what are you smoking?



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
Where have you been? This Year, OIL broke all time records and was well above the 1981 high. You said it would be a few years before it got back to the 1981 prices. If by "in a few years" you really meant A FEW MONTHS AGO. Then you would have been correct. Seriously, what are you smoking?


Like I have said before, you'll learn alot of stuff when you get to High School.
Look at the chart again. Look at now, then look at 1981. Tell me, why is it lower now than it is in '81?
Also read the print. It says "1996 dollars". What does that mean? Isn't all money the same?
Ah ha! Inflation!
In 1981 the price of oil was an astounding $39 dollars.
In 2005 dollars that is $94.48.

Which is higher? The current price which is around $60 or $95?

Gas in 1981 reached a $1.60!
"But, but I'm paying $2.00 now!"
Ahh that pesky inflation again. In 2005 dollars it was over $3.00.


What am I smoking?
-Knowledge
-Facts

What are you smoking?



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by RebelSaint
I have seen the Hilo Tribune Herald newspaper with the headline "JAPAN MAY STRIKE OVER WEEKEND" dated NOVEMBER 30TH. The actual attack took place December 7th. I have it from a documentary I downloaded that I would glady take a snapshot of if someone would explain to me the proper way of doing so. The point is the US knew of Japanese intentions before they attacked.

I'm fully aware they knew Japan was up to something. I have had the privilage of going over an analysing alot of now declassified documents and info the OSS and our other unorganized intelligence agencies had. We had no idea where most of their fleet was and we knew they were on the move. The thinking by alot of people at the time was they would strike the Philipines but Hawii was definately in the mix too as possible targets. So we didn't know where they were, we didn't know how many there were, we didn't know where they would strike, we only had a general idea of when they would strike....what were we going to do?
Plus all those links still don't show how the US government orchestrated the attack.



The point is another attack would finally be the last straw that would ignite some sort of radical change.

The last straw of what? A change to what?
Like I said, people aren't going to automatically blame the government. That's just not going to happen.



So if a chem or bio attack happened in your area and you didn't think you were infected but you wanted to get your family out but the military would not let you leave the quarantine zone you would do what? go back peacefully to your home? Yeah right.

If a chem or bio attack happened in my area, I would not leave my house. I would not let my family leave the house until everything is free of any and all traces of whatever was used. I will not risk my life nor the life of my family just for....what? Just to get out of the house? No. Chemical and Bio weapons are NOTHING to play with. Whether I feel like I wasn't affected or not, yes I will wait until I know for sure my area and my family is safe.




Domestic terrorism in the context I meant it in would be all who dissent against the government and the state during a state of emergency. Martial Law would be used to quell the citizens who are protesting what is happening.

I'm still not sure I get what you're talking about.
Are you saying that if a Nuke, Chem, or Bio attack happens in LA. And LA is put under martial law to keep people from leaving or coming. People in....I don't know....Miami, who aren't under anything would have to be put under martial law too because of people protesting LA being put under martial law?
I don't think so.
1. Martial law has never been declared because of protests.
2. I seriously doubt the people of Miami (or elsewhere) would care if possibly infected people in LA would be put under martial law.


1.4 million is fine and dandy but your not being realistic with these assumptions of American military strength. Yes we can destroy 90% of a country before a marine sets foot in it but another invasion into ANY country would require a draft. Plain and simple.

Depends really. If it's a country that's like Afghanistan, there wouldn't be a need.
Plus, what would be the point of invading after an attack like that?



No not all of them. JUST EVERY JAP ON THE WEST COAST.
We sent SEVERAL THOUSANDS to the camps. Go see for yourself.

www.teacheroz.com...

I know what happened. But several thousand on the west coast is much more duable than several million around the country. And it's not like you can just spot a supporter of Islam off hand.



What good is it having world opinion on your side? We act unilaterally when we deem it necessary. We had the favor of the world during 9/11. We didn't have it during the Iraq War. What difference did it make?

It's a huge difference in that it takes alot of the burden off our back. We don't have to stretch our army thin. Plus I was just saying that because you said we wouldn't have international support and I can guarentee you we would.


If we were attacked by a WMD, I promise you the world would not want us to strike back with a WMD because the implications would be a thermonuclear world war.

No they wouldn't want us to use WMDs in retaliation. Most of the people here in the US wouldn't want us to use them either. I have no problems with that. We would have every right to, but we have enough firepower and technology to do the job without them.


And if not, other nuclear ready countries can justify using their WMD arsenal offensively or whenever they want to because the US has done so.

No. The US would be doing to in retaliation. In most of the treaties signed, this is allowed.


Wow, can I buy some pot from you? There hasn't been peace in this country in a long time. All 3 events you named have so many suspicions about them that they are acts of war in my opinion. Each one is DOMESTIC TERRORISM. OK city is its own giant conspiracy. The 1993 bombing WAS ADMITTED BY THE FBI TO BE THEIR OWN WORK AND PLANNING. THIS WAS BLOWN UP BY A NY TIMES ARTICLE and Ahmad Salom or whoever the lead terrorist was TAPERECORDED THE FBI TELLING HIM TO GO AHEAD WITH THE BOMBING. It's public record. The FBI admits it. Why is it so hard to assume that 9/11 was not also a domestic plot by our own intelligence forces?


This was not about who was responsible for the events.
If only 3 events in the past 50 years is considered terror, what do you consider peace?



Well if it goes in cycles, then I have yet to see a 50 year period in history that a major war did not take place in. The entire 20th century was one giant continuous battlefield. I hope another major war won't happen but all signs point to the opposite. Iran, Nuclear Korea, Taiwan's days as free are numbered. Too much American interests everywhere around the world that requires our military response a great portion of the time.

50 years? lol I wasn't thinking that long. ~10-15 years is more like it.

If we let them (unlikely) Isreal could take Iran if something drastic developed. But, even better, the people of Iran could take care of Iran. Iran (not the government) is one of the most pro western states in the middle east.
I seriously doubt China would do anything to Taiwan until they are sure they are equal to the US. How long will that take?
North Korea.....well, it certainly wouldn't be in their best intrest to try anything, but....does lil Kim care about that?



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 08:41 PM
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Another innocent and defenseless victim, another loss of life by officers of the law

www.sfgate.com.../news/archive/2005/07/13/state/n161421D81.DTL

Autopsy finds toddler killed by LA police in shootout

By GREG RISLING, Associated Press Writer

Wednesday, July 13, 2005

(07-13) 18:04 PDT Los Angeles (AP) --

A toddler who was at times held by her father as a shield during an hours-long gunbattle with police died of a single gunshot wound fired by a rifle from a police officer, authorities told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

County coroner's spokesman Craig Harvey released the autopsy reports of Suzie Pena, a 19-month-old, and her father Jose Pena, 34, who were both killed in a shootout at Pena's auto repair business on Sunday.

The girl died from a single gunshot wound to the head, and her father died of multiple gunshot wounds, the reports said.

A toxicological examination to determine whether Pena had drugs or alcohol in his system will take several weeks, Harvey said.

"Our hearts, prayers, thoughts go out to the family, particularly the mother," Police Chief William Bratton told a news conference Wednesday afternoon. Although Bratton has adamantly maintained that Pena was responsible for his and his daughter's deaths, he said the realization that it was a police officer who actually shot the girl was hard to take.

"Believe me, as chief of police, and for the officers involved, it is very tough to deal with that," Bratton said.

Ultimately, the chief said, he expects an investigation now under way will clear all of the officers involved in the gunbattle.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 08:47 PM
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John Titor: "However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal."

www.corpwatch.org...
But those early Tasers were a far cry — a long, agonized scream, victims might say — from the powerful weapons being used by police today.

In 2000, TASER International of Arizona introduced the M26, which the company touted as being nearly four times more powerful than its predecessors. Looking like something out of a sci-fi movie, the gun shoots two fish-hook-barbed electrical wires that can travel up to 21 feet and deliver a 50,000-volt shock in a cycle that lasts five seconds. It can also be fired by placing the weapon in direct contact with clothing or skin.

The shock renders the recipient instantly immobile, and the five-second cycle may be increased if the officer continues to hold the trigger down. The M26, with bright yellow striping across a black body, comes equipped with “built-in laser sights and an onboard data chip that records the time and date of each firing to back up an officer’s use of force reports.”

www.dailytexanonline.com...

APD's Taser use up 27.7 percent in 2004
Overall use of force, most other categories of force down from 2003

By Adrienne Lee
7/13/2005

The Austin Police Department's Taser use has increased significantly, while the use of other categories of force has decreased, according to its Use of Force Report for 2004, compiled in June.

Tasers, which emit electronic shocks that disrupt the muscles, were used 66 times, accounting for 5.7 percent of all reported uses of force. That number jumped in 2004 to 334, or 33.4 percent of all reported uses of force. The report shows decreases in nearly every other area where information was gathered.

Overall uses of force dropped by 10.5 percent between 2003 and 2004.

The report attributes reductions in officer and subject injury to the availability of Tasers. In 2004, Austin City Council approved the purchase of 750 Tasers, giving all patrol officers and their supervisors the device once they complete training. In 2003, the report stated, 160 Tasers were available to the department.

From 2003 to 2004, APD had a 43.6-percent decrease in the use of soft-hand control, including pushing and pulling techniques and a 40-percent decrease in hard-hand control, which includes hand and leg strikes and sometimes neck restraints.

"The decreased physical contact between officers and subjects in a use of force situation seems to have contributed to fewer injuries overall for officers and few serious injuries for subjects," the report states.

The report also notes that APD's use of force policy, as well as its policy for using weapons, is evaluated "on an ongoing basis to take into account subject and officer safety."

This year, the council approved a $75,291 contract to buy 90 police Tasers. Anti-Taser advocates fought the purchase and had been protesting the use of weapons by police officers since a Houston man died in February after being tasered three times by Houston police.

Austin Spokescouncil, an anti-Taser advocacy group, is studying APD's Taser use. The group's Web site has a Taser report hot line for people who have been tasered by Austin police. The group's spokeswoman, Debbie Russell, said Spokescouncil research shows that the 334 reported cases of Taser use is an inaccurately low number.

Still, she said, the reported number is still higher than it should be.

"It's getting out of control," Russell said. "Police are using it as the first point of contact. They don't even talk to people first."

APD could not be reached for comment.

Russell said Tasers can cause injury, but there are not enough studies on Taser injuries to strengthen the argument.

According to the report, APD policy calls for officers to use the "minimum level of force" needed to control a situation. APD requires that an officer who uses force fill out a form to document the incident.

Only 2.5 percent of the 48,802 arrests made in 2004 resulted in a use of force report. All area commands saw decreases in use of force reports, and 82.6 percent of officers reporting use of force were not injured. Serious injuries to subjects also decreased by about 82 percent from 2003 to 2004.

Though an APD representative did not return phone calls, Chief Stan Knee issued a statement in January that all use of force is "misconstrued" to mean excessive force.

"Missing from the discussion of use of force is the professional policing that is being done by my officers," Knee said in the statement. "This is the most professional department in the country. Community policing would not be as effective as it is without the professionalism of my officers."

[edit on 13-7-2005 by Roth Joint]



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps

Where have you dug this up?


He's a jerk for the fact that he called our whole planet a bunch of sheep and said that we'd be better off dead.


Is he not true? we are all sheep, following this, doing that.. We basically are just like them. We grow up and get proscessed, and they use us to do things for them. school > work.

Frankly, I agree with what he says there. Most of the world is just too blind to see.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Absolutely horrific. This is the US police torturing innocent and defenseless women and children for fun. These monsters are our officers of the law. And it will get much worse this year.

Please tell me you think this is the norm. Please tell me you think this happens all the time. Please tell me.
It would confirm so much stuff. So please, please tell me.


Oke.

www.4utah.com...

Man In Wheelchair Zapped By Taser Gun, Accused Of Assaulting Police
LAST UPDATE: 7/13/2005 9:05:46 PM

Watch Video

(ABC 4 News)-- A 72-year-old Utah man is in trouble with the law, over a recent dispute in which he allegedly pinned a Salt Lake County Sheriff's Deputy with his wheelchair. However, the man claims it was the officer who harrassed him --and zapped him with a taser gun.

On July 4th, Tom Snyder arrived at a local discount store to do some shopping. However, Snyder has had past troubles with personnel at the store, and when employees spotted him the deputy asked him to leave.

"He asked me to follow him, which I did," Snyder told ABC 4 News. "Then he told me, 'I'm going to teach you some respect.'"

The man says he took offense to the deputy's behavior, and told him so. That's when the officer reportedly reached for his stun gun.

"He started zapping me with that stun gun," Snyder said.

However, authorities tell a different story. They claim that Snyder got upset when he was told to leave, and started yelling profanities. Moments later, he allegedly drive his wheelchair straight into the legs of the deputy, pinning him against the produce section.

Officials say Snyder kept ramming the officer with his wheelchair and refused to stop. At that point, authorities claim, the deputy pulled the stun gun and took defensive action.

While Snyder admits to pinning the deputy with his chair, he claims it was an accident. He says the electronic gear-box malfunctioned.

"I remember being up against him and he was pinned... he was hollering for me to back off," Snyder said. "I had it in reverse... and nothing was happening."

Officials say Snyder's behavior was also out of line. They claim he used foul language in front of women and children, and refused to cooperate.

This is not the first time Snyder has had a run-in with the law. In June, he was given a citation for disorderly conduct at the same store. On a different occasion, a similar complaint was made against Snyder, but no charges were filed.

"Just because you are in a wheelchair... you don't have the right to offend all of these people," said Sergeant Paul Jaroscak, of the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Department.

Snyder now faces a felony charge of disarming a police officer. He is also charged with assault and interfering with a peace officer.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 09:39 PM
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Mmmmh, difficult to make people believe the healthy dog died from coc aine use and not from the taser.......

www.wweek.com...

DOG DIES AFTER TASER SHOCKS

BY ANGELA VALDEZ

A healthy 50-pound male pit bull died last month after Portland cops shot it repeatedly with taser stun-guns, the city's first canine fatality involving the weapons. Police insist the tasers didn't kill the dog; rather, they say it died from "over-excitement" after multiple 50,000-volt zaps.

Police tangled with the dog when two officers responded to a call to a Northwest Naito Parkway apartment on the night of June 5. Tenant Aaron Palfoss wasn't home, so police used a janitor's key to enter. Police spokesman Sgt. Brian Schmautz says the pit bull attacked an officer, who responded by shooting the dog with his taser.

Though the initial shock knocked the dog to the floor, it got up and continued to attack the officers, Schmautz says. The cops hit the dog with at least two more taser darts before it collapsed and died.

Minutes later, Palfoss returned with a friend, Taylor Brotherton, who says the apartment was strewn with feces from the frightened dog. Palfoss could not be reached for comment.



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