It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

page: 30
31
<< 27  28  29    31  32  33 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 04:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by NoJustice
Using a scenario of a bum that made all these predictions, as if John Titor made specific predicitions. He didn't.


Nice try.


John Titor made another very clear "prediction" next to degrading US Foreign Policy, the war fought in Iraq under false pretences, the West becoming unstable and the major breakthrough at CERN:

The use of recent 'non-lethal' weapons appearing to be quite lethal.




posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 05:25 PM
link   
Just from your posts on this Internet Message Board I can tell you are one of the most confused and lost people I've ever had a discussion with. Seek help where available in your city.

[edit on 1-7-2005 by NoJustice]



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 08:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by NoJustice
Just from your posts on this Internet Message Board I can tell you are one of the most confused and lost people I've ever had a discussion with. Seek help where available in your city.

[edit on 1-7-2005 by NoJustice]


Funny, because it looks like Roth is doing a lot better than you in getting his point across. Perhaps if you for once, made a strong point in one of your arguments, you'd be at liberty to call another user "lost and confused."

How many more times do I have to hear on the news that someone has lost their life at the hands of a police officer using a taser gun? This is the "non-lethal" weapon that John Titor mentioned that "turned out to be quite lethal." If one of my kids, or my mother or father died because they didn't get out of the car fast enough, then yes, I would be willing to start a civil war. I don't want these things in the hands of police officers.

-Chris



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 08:45 PM
link   
I'm not convinced that the taser deaths will lead to cicil war, however I have heard rumbling on right wing radio about resistance being put up when gov't comes to take the lands lost under the new eminent domain ruling. Though the recent ruling was specific only to New London , CT, there were 31 additional state leagues that supported the state's side in amicus briefs.

CCM & 31 other

If there are pockets of armed resitance to the takings- this really could create a series of Waco type events. I think it is much more likely to be the cause than the taserings. Asuming that any of it takes place to begin with.

For the record, I think JT was an insightful prankster. Though I do believe that he probably was from Florida.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 10:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by Legend
Funny, because it looks like Roth is doing a lot better than you in getting his point across.

You haven't read through this whole thread then....


How many more times do I have to hear on the news that someone has lost their life at the hands of a police officer using a taser gun? This is the "non-lethal" weapon that John Titor mentioned that "turned out to be quite lethal." If one of my kids, or my mother or father died because they didn't get out of the car fast enough, then yes, I would be willing to start a civil war. I don't want these things in the hands of police officers.

lol
So you're willing to kill and go to war because someone dies accidently? Let me ask you, how many lives will you take before you've feel as though you've got your revenge? What if someone you know dies in a car accident that was the other drivers fault. Will you go be willing to start a civil war then?
These people aren't being tasered because they're not getting out of the car fast enough. They're being tasered because 1) they're in the process of breaking the law or 2) they're endangering their lives, the policeman lives or the lives of those around them. What would you have the police to do? Shoot them instead?
And how many times do you turn on the news and hear of a taser death? I can guarentee you it's not alot. Deaths are extremely rare.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 11:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Legend
These people aren't being tasered because they're not getting out of the car fast enough. They're being tasered because 1) they're in the process of breaking the law or 2) they're endangering their lives, the policeman lives or the lives of those around them. What would you have the police to do?



check your sources again please. These people that are being tasered to death are not a threat, they are not co-operating. So does that mean that they don't deserve a trail by jury? Nope, just strait to the Electric Chair.

This is a problem, whether you believe Titor was a time traveler or not.



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 03:23 AM
link   

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
And how many times do you turn on the news and hear of a taser death?


Exactly!

....."a Waco type event [WACO-methods] every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012".



WACO=
- Innocent people being killed
- under false pretences
- by their own authorities
- while pleading for help, mercy or their lives
- while the law enforcement officers responsible for their death are cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death."


"If the federal forces learned anything from WACO it was to install more reliable suppressors on their automatic weapons and don't use flash grenades that leave shell casings after the fire."

"Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?"



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 03:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by Legend

How many more times do I have to hear on the news that someone has lost their life at the hands of a police officer using a taser gun? This is the "non-lethal" weapon that John Titor mentioned that "turned out to be quite lethal." If one of my kids, or my mother or father died because they didn't get out of the car fast enough, then yes, I would be willing to start a civil war. I don't want these things in the hands of police officers.

-Chris


Exactly.



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 03:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
check your sources again please. These people that are being tasered to death are not a threat, they are not co-operating. So does that mean that they don't deserve a trail by jury? Nope, just strait to the Electric Chair.

This is a problem, whether you believe Titor was a time traveler or not.


Exactly.

When they use the word "enemy", they're talking about YOU! You don't really think the Marines are going to jump out of helicopters overseas with sticky goop, pepper spray and seizure lights, do you?"

Q: Will you readily be able to identify the enemy?
"They will be the ones arresting and holding people without due process."



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 04:55 AM
link   
May I remind you one more time:


www.cleveland.com.../base/lorain/111848257318490.xml&coll=2

Police use stun gun on 12-year-old
Lorain officer called to calm melee on school bus

Saturday, June 11, 2005
Carl Matzelle
Plain Dealer Reporter

Lorain- An empty CD case - that was all it took to spark a school bus fight Thursday that ended when police used a stun gun on a 12-year-old boy, police said.

The Masson Elementary School student had tried to take the case from another student and became enraged when the other boy refused, according to a report.

A police officer had to board the bus and used a Taser on the boy after the boy head-butted her when she tried to restrain him, police said.
A crowd of 20 or 30 people surrounded the bus, pounding on windows and demanding that police leave the boy alone, the report said.

The 12-year-old faces juvenile charges of robbery, assault on a police officer and disruption of public service, police said. He also could be expelled from school, Lorain schools spokesman Dean Schnurr said.


www.wthr.com...

Woman claims excessive force in Taser use

Roger Harvey/Eyewitness News

Hamilton County, May 31 - Police car video of a traffic stop late one night in November of 2003 shows two officers questioning a suspected drunk driver at a gas station at 116th Street and Brooks School Road.
Minutes later, Hamilton County Sheriff Deputy Greg Lockhart made a declaration as the woman reached into her car for her cell phone.

"It's Taser time."

"It felt like he was trying to pull my arm out of the socket. It was an incredible pain, an incredible pain."

Jennifer Marshall, five-foot five and 105 pounds, says she couldn't believe an officer who outweighs her by nearly three times, along with a second deputy, used a Taser.

"It was almost like it was a malicious, vindictive movement like, drop to the ground but I am just going to keep pushing this button and I know you can't fall. It was just very horrible."


www.wsoctv.com...

Police Report Shows Taser Use Up Almost 3,000 Percent

POSTED: 6:06 pm EDT May 12, 2005
UPDATED: 11:47 pm EDT May 12, 2005

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- A new report shows that in the four years they've been using Taser guns, Charlotte-Mecklenburg police have shocked more than 160 people.


www.mercurynews.com...

Officers cleared [again] in Taser case

POLICE FOLLOWED PROCEDURE WHEN DEATH OCCURRED, DA SAYS

By David Herbert

Mercury News

For the second time in four days, the San Mateo County district attorney has cleared police officers for their roles in deadly confrontations on the Peninsula.

District Attorney James Fox determined Friday that three Pacifica officers were following procedure when they fired Taser stun guns nine times at a drug-addled man who died shortly after a Jan. 2 struggle with police.

Prosecutors found that Gregory Saulsbury Jr., 30, was a danger to police and family members, and the officers were trying to calm him when he lunged at them. The official cause of death was ruled cardiopulmonary arrest stemming from coc aine in his system, his forcible restraint and the shocks he received from the Taser guns.

Police across the country have been embracing Tasers, which can deliver a 50,000-volt shock, as non-lethal alternatives to bullets. But criticism is mounting in Northern California, where Tasers have been connected to at least eight deaths since August.

"I think this is and will continue to be part of a national debate on the usage of Tasers,'' said John Burris, the Saulsbury family's attorney who is suing the Pacifica Police Department, alleging officers used excessive force and failed to permit emergency crews to treat him at the scene.

Burris said the district attorney's decision was "disappointing but not surprising,'' and that the family would press on with a civil suit.

In Saulsbury's death, Burris took issue with how liberally the police used their stun guns. Two officers activated their Tasers a total of 11 times, with six of those hitting Saulsbury. In the struggle, two officers were hit a total of three times, and Saulsbury's father was also shocked twice when he tried to intervene.

The coroner's report detected 22 marks on Saulsbury's body, and noted that a single activation lasts five seconds, meaning that Tasers could have struck Saulsbury more than once with each pull of the trigger.

"The number and frequency was what was most shocking to the family,'' Burris said.


www.saveourcivilliberties.org...

Another death from the 'non-lethal' taser. They claim 50,000 volts didn't have any effect on the man four times--interesting claim, considering no test has shown it NOT to have an effect immediately. The main effect, however, was fatal.

Waco man dies after police subdue him with Tasers

6/15/2005 12:06 PM
By: Associated Press

WACO, Texas -- A 62-year-old Waco man has died after police officers fired a Taser gun at him four times, then forcibly subdued him with handcuffs.

Police responding to a domestic-dispute call yesterday found Robert Earl Williams in his backyard just off Interstate 35 near downtown Waco.

Officers learned he was wanted after his bail had been revoked on a previous resisting-arrest charge.

Officers say that when they advanced, the six-foot, 350-pound man brandished a piece of rebar. They fired Taser darts at him four times without effect, so five officers forcibly subdued and handcuffed the man.

Police say Williams was sitting on the ground when he complained of difficulty breathing. They say he stopped breathing before an ambulance arrived, and efforts to revive him failed.

Five police officers are on routine paid leave pending an investigation.



www.sun-sentinel.com...

Stun weapons face increasing opposition
Police use pistol-like stun guns to incapacitate suspects with pulses of electricity

By Andrew Ryan
Staff Writer
Posted June 19 2005

The lives of Kerry O'Brien and Timothy Bolander ended in much the same way: Each was in a delusional rage and each struggled with police. And each died after being shocked with a Taser.

But autopsies didn't blame either death on the pistol-like stun guns, which incapacitate suspects with pulses of electricity.......


Protest heats up on Taser use
Residents storm out of meeting

By Ihosvani Rodriguez
Miami Bureau
Posted June 16 2005

More than 300 demonstrators gathered outside Miami-Dade's government center on Wednesday afternoon to demand that the county's Police Department stop using Tasers until more medical research is conducted on the controversial stun guns.

The demonstration, led by area church leaders and members of civil rights organizations, was perhaps South Florida's largest protest against the controversial weapons.

It played out hours before the county's safety committee met to discuss a proposal that prohibits Miami-Dade police officers from zapping minors.

But what started as a demonstration featuring gospel singing and children playing in the yard at the government center ended with an angry walkout after the group's leader exchanged heated words with a county commissioner and the Police Department's director during the committee meeting.

"This is why we say that this county is insensitive to its people. They won't listen to us," the group's leader, Bishop Victor Curry of New Birth Baptist Church, shouted as he stormed out of the County Commission chambers.

During the afternoon protest and later at the meeting, Curry joined members of the American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International and the NAACP in rallying around family members of Stanley Wilson, 44, of Miami-Dade, who died last month after he was shocked with a stun gun. Demonstrators likened the Taser to "mobile electric chairs" and attributed more than 100 deaths to Tasers nationwide.

"It's like the wild, wild West days again," said Adora Obi Nweze, president of the Florida NAACP. "We're not against police using Tasers; we're only asking to take a closer look at them, and stop killing people."

At the center of the daylong ordeal is the Police Department's policy on Tasers. The policy has been revised three times since a Miami-Dade officer zapped a 6-year-old boy last year. Administrators have adopted a stricter policy on using a Taser weapon on minors but argue that banning it altogether could put officers and children in danger in life-threatening situations.

On Wednesday, the county's Community Outreach, Safety and Healthcare Administration Committee looked at a request from County Commissioner Barbary Carey-Shuler to ban using Tasers on children younger than 12.

The committee took no action on the proposal
, which goes to the County Commission next month.

During the meeting, Miami-Dade police Director Robert Parker revealed that since 2003, officers have used a Taser on 31 people younger than 18. The department has used the Taser in 324 incidents.

Things got especially tense when Parker testified that an autopsy showed Wilson died of "acute coc aine psychosis" and not from being shocked. Wilson's sister walked out crying during Parker's testimony. Parker said the true problem is an epidemic of drug use, and he accused demonstrators of distorting the facts.

At one point, Parker looked toward Curry and others and questioned whether certain clergy members were fulfilling their "role in telling people how to be good citizens."

Most of the audience hissed after Parker's comment. Local community activist and church leader Richard Dunn demanded an apology to the clergy. That set off a series of simultaneous heated exchanges between audience and committee members.

County Commissioner and committee member Natacha Seijas tried to restore order and ordered Curry to sit down. Most in the room, about 100, walked out shouting in anger. Group leaders vowed to return next month when commissioners take up the issue.



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 05:17 AM
link   
John Titor: "There's not a great deal I know about Canada except to say they were pretty much in the same type of conflict."

WACO=
- Innocent people being killed
- under false pretences
- by their own authorities
- while pleading for help, mercy or their lives
- while the law enforcement officers responsible for their death are cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death."

WACO-type incidents: fifth Taser-related death in B.C. in just over a year.


www.canada.com...

Surrey man dies after RCMP use Taser
Woman says her husband was 'paranoid and scared' when police shocked him multiple times

Brad Badelt and Jennifer Miller
Vancouver Sun

July 1, 2005

A Surrey man is dead after being shocked with a Taser weapon by Surrey RCMP in his home early Thursday. It was the fifth Taser-related death in B.C. in just over a year.

Surrey RCMP would not confirm how many times the victim, Gurmeet Sandhu, 41, was hit with a Taser, but the victim's wife, Harjinder Sandhu, who was home at the time, alleges her husband was shocked multiple times.

"At least four or five times," Sandhu said.

"There were two Tasers involved."

Surrey RCMP arrived at the home on 84A Avenue around 3:30 a.m. after receiving a 911 call about a domestic dispute taking place, Const. Mark Searle said.

When officers arrived, they were "immediately confronted by a highly agitated and combative" man who proceeded to assault the woman "in plain view" of the officers, Searle said.

Searle said the victim began fighting with police after an officer stepped in to arrest him, prompting the officer to make an emergency call for more help.

"In effect you're sending out your own 911," he said.

Searle said it is not known how many officers responded to the call or how many times the victim was shocked with a Taser before his death.

Sandhu's wife, who was married to him for 22 years, alleges between eight and 12 officers tried to subdue her husband.

Sandhu also said her husband did not assault her, or any other female, as reported by RCMP.

"He was paranoid and he was scared -- he was trying to hold onto me because he was so scared," she said.

She also alleges her husband was kicked in the chest by an officer.

According to Sandhu, her husband awoke in a violent and delirious state that culminated in him throwing a glass through the front window. She said she told her downstairs neighbour to called 911.

"I wanted an ambulance -- that's what I wanted," she said.

Sandhu said she did not know why her husband awoke in such a state -- he had dinner and drinks with the downstairs neighbours earlier in the night before going to bed, she said.

Nicole Saville, a downstairs neighbour who called 911, said she called police to settle down Sandhu, who she described as a "one of the best guys you'd ever meet."

"It's sad -- you phone these people for protection and they cause a death," she said.

Searle said officers performed CPR on Sandhu until emergency medical help arrived, but he was later pronounced dead at the hospital.

Sandhu was not known to police and his death is being considered an "in-custody death," which always results in an investigation, Searle said.

"This incident is being treated with the utmost importance," he said.

The death comes just two weeks after the Victoria police department released a report that said Taser weapons -- which deliver up to a 50,000-volt shock through two barbed darts -- should not be used multiple times.

RCMP spokesman Tom Seaman said officers can deploy the weapon more than once if the situation warrants.

A recent report by Amnesty International found 103 people had died from Tasers in Canada and the U.S. over the past four years. Earlier this year, Chicago police stopped using the device.

[edit on 2-7-2005 by Roth Joint]



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 08:46 AM
link   
John Titor: "How can you possibly criticize me for any conflict that comes to you? I watch every day what you are doing as a society. While you sit by and watch your Constitution being torn away from you".......

boortz.com...

Friday -- June 24, 2005

THE END OF PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS

I cannot remember being more dismayed at a court ruling, and this includes the occasional ruling against me when I was practicing law. What ruling? Just in case you don't already know, the United States Supreme Court yesterday issued a ruling that goes a long way toward destroying private property rights in this country. [full text of ruling]

Background. The Fifth Amendment to our Constitution restricts the government's right of eminent domain. It does not, as I heard so many commentators say yesterday, grant a right of eminent domain, it restricts it. The right of eminent domain was assumed as a basic part of English Common Law. The Fifth Amendment merely said that government could not exercise this right for a public use without paying for it. The exact working is "nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation."

For hundreds of years the term "public use" was interpreted to mean use for something like a school, library, police or fire station, power transmission lines, roads, bridges or some other facility owned and operated by government for the benefit of the general population. As politicians became more and more impressed with their own power they started to expand this definition of public use.

The new theory is that increasing the property taxes paid on a parcel of property is a public use. Increasing the number of people who can be employed by a business located on a particular piece of property can also be a public use. This would mean that government would be free to seize private property if it can be handed to a developer who will redevelop the property so as to increase the property taxes paid or the number of people employed. This is the theory that was validated by the Supreme Court yesterday in its ruling approving just such a private property seizure in New London, Connecticut. As Justice Sandra Day O'Connor said in her dissent, this decision renders virtually all private property vulnerable to government confiscation.

Bottom line: If you own property, and the government wants that property --- you're screwed. You now own your private property only at the pleasure of government; and that means that you own your property, be it your home, your business or a piece of investment real estate only at the pleasure of the local controlling politicians.

Read more at:
boortz.com...



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 09:02 AM
link   
It occurs to me that guns may be considered "non-lethal," say as for shooting yourself in the foot. The principle is Orwellian to be sure, but consider such things self directed.

Apparently that is the entire core of the problem, since our public servants now consider themselves our lords and masters, and we are named as mere civilians or worse chattel slaves in all effect. If former citizens are now property of the state, then they are no better than animals in the overall effect of things. Our original concepts are being crippled daily by a tide of self serving hypocrits, basically bad actors who wear of mask of service or do not even bother to do so.

Once again the point is that officials may as well redefine their guns as non-lethal, especially when they shoot themselves in the foot as for the most basic principles of our social structure. The whole thing may be non lethal to they themselves, but fatal to every previous social structure comprising the layer upon layer of archaeological records of failed and fallen civilizations.



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 11:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by SkipShipman
It occurs to me that guns may be considered "non-lethal," say as for shooting yourself in the foot. The principle is Orwellian to be sure, but consider such things self directed.

Apparently that is the entire core of the problem, since our public servants now consider themselves our lords and masters, and we are named as mere civilians or worse chattel slaves in all effect. If former citizens are now property of the state, then they are no better than animals in the overall effect of things. Our original concepts are being crippled daily by a tide of self serving hypocrits, basically bad actors who wear of mask of service or do not even bother to do so.

Once again the point is that officials may as well redefine their guns as non-lethal, especially when they shoot themselves in the foot as for the most basic principles of our social structure. The whole thing may be non lethal to they themselves, but fatal to every previous social structure comprising the layer upon layer of archaeological records of failed and fallen civilizations.


SkipShipman

I like the way you say it.

"Young people need wisdom. The captain of the ship knows where the lifeboats are."[/]



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 11:56 AM
link   
The term "Western world" or "Western civilization" can have multiple meanings depending on its context. Originally defined as Europe, most modern uses of the term refer to the societies of Europe and their genealogical, colonial, and philosophical descendants, typically also including those countries whose ethnic identity and dominant culture derive from European culture.
en.wikipedia.org...


John Titor:
“Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency."
……”political situations are dependant on Western stability, which collapses in 2005”
“The West will become very unstable”…….


www.washingtonpost.com...

The End of Europe
By Robert J. Samuelson

Wednesday, June 15, 2005; Page A25

Europe as we know it is slowly going out of business. Since French and Dutch voters rejected the proposed constitution of the European Union, we've heard countless theories as to why: the unreality of trying to forge 25 E.U. countries into a United States of Europe; fear of ceding excessive power to Brussels, the E.U. capital; and an irrational backlash against globalization. Whatever their truth, these theories miss a larger reality: Unless Europe reverses two trends -- low birthrates and meager economic growth -- it faces a bleak future of rising domestic discontent and falling global power. Actually, that future has already arrived.

Read more at:
www.washingtonpost.com...



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 01:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
check your sources again please. These people that are being tasered to death are not a threat, they are not co-operating. So does that mean that they don't deserve a trail by jury? Nope, just strait to the Electric Chair.

This is a problem, whether you believe Titor was a time traveler or not.

Are you serious? YOU need to check your sources again. Show me one place where they were not a threat, or - Hey look at your quote again. lol, You're right they are NOT cooperating! I knew you'd see the light. If they weren't a threat or were cooperating or weren't conducting a illegal activity......why did someone call the police on them!?

Also show me where a person without a precondition or high on drugs have died from a taser. There may be a couple, but like I said before, it's VERY rare.



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 01:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Are you serious? YOU need to check your sources again. Show me one place where they were not a threat, or - Hey look at your quote again. lol, You're right they are NOT cooperating! I knew you'd see the light. If they weren't a threat or were cooperating or weren't conducting a illegal activity......why did someone call the police on them!?

Also show me where a person without a precondition or high on drugs have died from a taser. There may be a couple, but like I said before, it's VERY rare.


I wonder how the families of the innocent tasered victims would feel about your comments. Maybe it's time you read up on this:

www.corpwatch.org...

US: Torture by Taser

by Peter Gorman, Fort Worth Weekly
June 24th, 2005

Robert Guerrero may have died because he wouldn’t come out of a closet.

The small-time crook had been looking to steal some electricity. When he tried to illegally reconnect a neighbor’s electrical meter at the North View apartment complex near the Fort Worth Stockyards last November, someone called the cops. And when the officers arrived, someone else pointed them to the closet in Apartment M where he was hiding.

Guerrero, 21, wasn’t a violent criminal. His rap sheet was littered with convictions for things like misdemeanor theft and burglary of a coin-operated machine. Normally, theft of electricity won’t even get you arrested — just reported to the electric company. But when Fort Worth police arrived at the apartment on Clinton Street that afternoon, they treated Guerrero like a dangerous character.

Two officers entered the apartment and pulled open the door to the closet, where Guerrero was hiding under a black plastic trash bag. Officer P.R. Genualdo, a six-year veteran, told him to step out of the closet. When the 143-pound Guerrero refused, Genualdo unholstered his Taser and shot him in the chest, sending electricity through Guerrero’s body. A police report of the incident indicated that Genualdo held the Taser’s trigger down for 10 seconds — double the normal length of time. Worse, in the next minute he jolted Guerrero three more times with five-second blasts before pulling him from the closet floor.

A few minutes after the officers pulled him from the closet, Guerrero stopped breathing. Neither the officers nor paramedics could get his heart started again, and Guerrero was declared dead when an ambulance got him to John Peter Smith Hospital a short while later.

The Tarrant County Medical Examiner’s Office later listed the cause of death as heart failure brought on by “acute coc aine overdose,” but a member of the ME’s staff —who asked not to be named — told Fort Worth Weekly that “the amount of coc aine found in Guerrero’s blood would not normally have caused him to have heart failure.”

What about the Taser hit? Manufacturers of the Taser maintain that no one has ever died from their “nonlethal” weapon, which is zooming in popularity among police agencies. But the Taser that hit Guerrero that day was no minor-league cattle prod. It delivered a 50,000-volt lightning strike to Guerrero’s chest like a Mack truck — and delivered that jolt four times.

His was one of two deaths following Taser use by Fort Worth police in the last year. The other Taser victim, Midland architect Eric Hammock, died in April after he ran from police, tried to take on an officer, and ended up suffering heart failure — like Guerrero, after getting hit repeatedly with a Taser while he had coc aine in his system. The Fort Worth cases are part of a tide of Taser-related deaths that is rising with the weapon’s popularity — more than 5,000 police agencies across the country have purchased them since 2000. In a massive report released late last year, Amnesty International documented hundreds of cases in the last three years in which Taser-happy police used the weapon on everyone from disturbed children to old men and women who didn’t follow orders fast enough to a Florida man — strapped down on a hospital bed — who wouldn’t provide a urine sample.

Fort Worth officers, who all receive at least a two-second jolt as part of their training with the Taser, are supposed to refrain from using the weapon until they face “active resistance” from a suspect — which could include fighting, fleeing, or showing a weapon. They are also supposed to limit the blasts to five seconds. Genualdo, who faced no such resistance from Guerrero, was suspended for 16 days without pay, both for using the Taser at all in that situation and for delivering a 10-second jolt. The second officer present received a three-day suspension.

Such punishments are rare. In similar cases around the country, Taser abuse has been found to violate no police policy. Despite the explicit rules that most law enforcement agencies follow about employing various levels of force, police in many parts of the country are using the devices, not like potentially death-dealing weapons, but more like light taps from the old beat cop’s baton — as if they were capable only of producing a little pain and punishment to encourage obedience. Meanwhile, a growing number of those hit with the Tasers, like Robert Guerrero, are turning up dead.

Fort Worth Police spokesman Dean Sullivan got shocked with a Taser as part of his training before being allowed to carry one. When the bolt hits, “you just lock up. There is no fighting it. Imagine the worst charley horse you’ve ever had in your whole life, and now imagine it from your head to your toes,” the lieutenant said. “It will definitely get your attention. And it hurts. It really, really hurts. But as soon as it’s over, it’s over. You can function and think and move. You don’t want to get it again. It is hard to imagine someone needing to get hit more than once.”

Since the 1950s, guards at jails and prisons have used stun batons — cattle prods — and stun belts on prisoners considered to be dangerous. Those devices carry a jolt of about 5,000 to 10,000 volts. Then in the early 1970s, police began using early-generation TASERS — an acronym for Thomas A. Swift’s Electric Rifle. The punch these early Tasers carried was equivalent to or slightly stronger than that of a stun baton.

But those early Tasers were a far cry — a long, agonized scream, victims might say — from the powerful weapons being used by police today. In 2000, TASER International of Arizona introduced the M26, which the company touted as being nearly four times more powerful than its predecessors. Looking like something out of a sci-fi movie, the gun shoots two fish-hook-barbed electrical wires that can travel up to 21 feet and deliver a 50,000-volt shock in a cycle that lasts five seconds. It can also be fired by placing the weapon in direct contact with clothing or skin. The shock renders the recipient instantly immobile, and the five-second cycle may be increased if the officer continues to hold the trigger down. The M26, with bright yellow striping across a black body, comes equipped with “built-in laser sights and an onboard data chip that records the time and date of each firing to back up an officer’s use of force reports.”

Three years after the M26 came the X26, offering “even greater stopping power.” The company now markets both models worldwide and has sold them to more than 7,000 police agencies as well as to some units in the United States military. TASER International says the weapons are intended for use against “dangerous, combative, or high-risk subjects that may be impervious to other non-lethal means,” but also says the relatively low-amperage of the electric current (.004 amperes) prevents them from causing permanent damage to those the guns are used on. Tasers, the company literature suggests, lower the risks for suspects as well as police, because the guns give law enforcement officers a “less-lethal” form of force to incapacitate and then subdue an unruly or dangerous person. The company tagline, in fact, is “Saving Lives Every Day.”

But for a weapon whose makers crow about its “stopping power,” Tasers occupy a strange place in the police rulebook. Law enforcement officers learn what is called a “use of force continuum” to determine what means or weapons they may use in different situations. The “continuum” begins with simple police presence, then moves up to issuing commands, then the use of open hands, and after that, pepper or other chemical sprays, closed hands (including elbows and knees and other takedown moves), the use of a hard baton, and finally, the use of lethal force.

You might think Tasers would fit somewhere near the “lethal force” end of that list, right before a gun. Instead, however, many police agencies place Tasers immediately after the “issuing commands” force level — which suggests to officers that using a Taser is less serious even than a push or pepper spray. Which also means that if an officer asks you to produce your driver’s license and you ask “Why?” rather than immediately complying with the order, there’s a chance, in some jurisdictions, that you could, within their rules, be hit with a Taser for refusing the command. That’s in part how Tasers have begun to be used, not as serious, life-threatening weapons, but as a bully’s tool of compliance, something to get people in line — with sometimes egregious consequences.

In Florida, Orlando police figured Antonio Wheeler for a drug dealer. When they stopped him on the night of March 4 this year, he ran. Police gave chase, and when they caught him, Wheeler made the mistake of telling officers he’d swallowed some coc aine. (Officers had found a Chapstick tube where Wheeler had been stopped, filled with 0.8 grams of the drug.)

“Wheeler was taken to the hospital emergency room after he admitted he’d eaten coc aine because the police on the scene didn’t know how much he’d eaten,” Sgt. Brian Gillian, public information officer for the Orlando Police Department told the Weekly. “The officers were actually trying to save his life there, protect him from overdose.”

The 18-year-old was handcuffed to a hospital bed and ordered to give a urine sample — already a violation of his constitutional rights. When he didn’t produce one, he was strapped to the bed, and a nurse started to insert a catheter into his penis. Not surprisingly, Wheeler began thrashing around. At that point, Officer Peter Linnenkamp jumped on the bed and put his knees on Wheeler’s chest. When even that failed to get the desired results, Linnenkamp pressed his police-issue Taser against Wheeler’s leg — not once, but twice. “After the second shock,” Linnenkamp wrote in his report, Wheeler “calmed down enough to be given the portable urinal.”

Wheeler had another version. He was terrified, he said. “I basically felt like I was being raped.”

Within six weeks, Linnenkamp’s actions had been reviewed internally by the Orlando Police Department, and he was indicted for assault. The 18-year veteran of the department could lose his job and pension if he’s found guilty. It’s possible, but less likely, that he’ll do jail time.

The only thing surprising to Thomas Luka about Wheeler’s case is that an officer is actually being prosecuted for what happened. The Florida defense attorney has brought suit against several officers in Orlando and two neighboring counties over allegations of Taser abuse (though he isn’t representing Wheeler). He said that, in agencies where Tasers are used frequently, the weapon has changed the way police work is done, and not for the better. “Cops now approach suspects with a completely hands-off investigative technique,” he said. “They used to have to talk with people, do some real police work. Now it’s ‘Do what we say or we’ll Taser you.’ The cops are way over the top in their use of these things despite what they tell you,” he said. “A lot of them are just plain Taser-happy. And the police policies justify that approach.”

Among the cases Luka is handling is one in which police were called to a domestic disturbance involving a father and his adult son. When the officers arrived the argument was over. Nonetheless, the police ordered the father to leave the house. “He told the police he wasn’t leaving because it was his house,” Luka said. “So he turns around to walk to the kitchen, and they taser him in the back.”

It gets worse, the lawyer said. “I’ve got one guy tasered 12 times. The police report says he wouldn’t follow their commands. How could he? He was on the ground nearly paralyzed.”

None of Luka’s cases have been to trial yet. But David Henderson, an attorney in Bethel, Alaska, won a $1.08 million judgment for a client last October for torture in connection with Taser use. “My client was drunk, and he took his aunt’s snowmobile without permission,” Henderson said. “She sees it gone and calls the police, and they pick my guy up and put him in the local one-cell jail — which just happens to be guarded by his cousin. So in the morning, his cousin lets him grab a smoke outside, and he decides to wander off to go visit his girlfriend. A trooper goes to apprehend him, and my client resists. The trooper tasers him, my client falls down in the snow, and the trooper gets on top of him and handcuffs him. All legal so far. My client, by the way, weighs 140 and is hung over; the trooper is six-four and weighs 220.

“But then,” continued Henderson, “the trooper tasers him seven additional times — while he’s on the ground, face in the snow, and handcuffed. That’s not police work, that’s torture.”

At the trial, Henderson said, a representative of TASER International “testified that the Taser couldn’t leave scars. Well, my client was covered in them. And the fellow says, ‘Those are not scars, those are just skin discolorations.’”

The Bethel Police Department, which is appealing the judgment, claimed that Henderson’s client refused to cooperate, which is why he had to be hit with the Taser so many times.

Nonsense, Henderson said. “If that trooper didn’t have the Taser, he’d have had to do real police work — just wait my client out ’til he settled down. Now the police are all in a hurry to go get that next café latte, and the Taser makes things quick.

“To be honest, there are situations where they’re useful, but too often, giving a police officer a Taser is like giving a kid a new squirt gun,” he said. “Doesn’t matter that you tell him not to use it, he just has to go out and try it. And that’s when it can become a tool of torture. In my opinion it’s like giving police a portable electric chair.”

The cases recounted by Luka and Henderson are anything but rare. In the 97-page document released last Nov. 30, Amnesty International reported finding hundreds of instances between 2001 and 2004 in which the use of a Taser was at best a poor choice of force, at worst criminal. Among the most egregious cases:

— In Baytown, Texas, “a man who had reportedly suffered two epileptic seizures was touch-stunned in an ambulance when, confused and disoriented, he resisted while being strapped onto a stretcher.” The same police department blasted Naomi Autin — 59 years old and disabled — three times with a Taser for banging on her brother’s door with a brick. Autin was collecting mail for her brother while he was away and became worried after she couldn’t reach his house-sitter. She was the one who had called the police for help. In both cases, the officers were cleared of any wrongdoing, and no disciplinary action was taken against them.

— In Oregon, police used a Taser on people “after stopping them for nonviolent offenses, such as littering and jaywalking, selling plastic flowers without a license, and failing to go away when told to.” Amnesty also reported that Oregon police jolted an elderly man after he dropped “onto his hands and knees instead of lying flat on the floor, as ordered by police.” And 71-year-old Eunice Crowder was hit with a Taser jolt after ignoring police orders not to enter a trailer where Portland city employees had placed rubbish they had legally removed from her yard. Crowder won a $145,000 settlement from the city after it was learned that two officers “struck Ms. Crowder (who was blind in one eye) in the head with a Taser, dislodging her prosthetic right eye from its socket. She was also tasered in the back and on the breast as she lay on the ground.”

— In Mesa, Ariz., police shocked an unarmed suspect in a house burglary who had climbed into a tree to escape from four guard dogs. The man fell, landing on his head and leaving him partially paralyzed. In Chandler, Ariz., police told a man who was “standing on the sidewalk yelling and screaming at the sky” to be quiet. He continued screaming and was Tasered. He fell to the ground but “as the subject began to get up, the Taser was cycled a second time.”

—In Seattle, police shot a 16-year-old four times with a Taser on the back of the neck when the car in which he was a passenger was stopped for a faulty headlight. Police decided to frisk the youngster outside the car because they claimed he “made furtive movements in the back seat” and used the Taser on him repeatedly when he resisted.

— In Kansas City, Mo., a 66-year-old African-American woman was tasered twice in her home after she resisted being handed a ticket for honking her car horn at a police car.

— In Colorado, “a man was shocked in the genitals for continuing to resist” — while he was already handcuffed and sitting in the back of a police car. In another case in that state, police took an apparently intoxicated and possibly suicidal man to a hospital where he was put into restraints on a bed. The man, who was screaming for his wife, was “told to be quiet, and when he did not comply [the officer] placed the Taser against his chest and tasered him.”

In Guerrero’s death in Fort Worth, Officer Genualdo was at least disciplined. But in the cases cited by Amnesty, no police officers were found guilty of any wrongdoing. Amnesty did note that in several instances, following highly publicized and controversial Taser use, law enforcement agencies tightened their officers’ restrictions on future use — in most cases by prohibiting Taser use on those who simply don’t comply with police commands or offer passive resistance. Some agencies have implemented rules against using Tasers on children, pregnant women, and the elderly. None however, restrict the weapon’s use to potentially life-threatening situations. Amnesty officials noted that it is still a common practice in many police agencies to use the high-powered Tasers “to secure compliance in routine arrest and non-life-threatening situations.”

“Initially, our policy was that if someone resisted arrest — even passively, like not presenting hands when told to — we could use the Taser,” said Orlando Police Sgt. Gilliam. “Now, in light of reports that some officers have overstepped that boundary, we’ve changed the policy to where we won’t use it unless they’re actively resisting arrest — not just talking, but getting physical with us. But that includes fleeing. We’re not gung-ho on using it. ... Most of us, anyway.”

Still, the abuses continue. In January, officers assigned to security for the Fiesta Bowl college football game in Salt Lake City used the Taser on at least 24 fans who tried to rush the field in celebration after their team won.

And in Houston, the police department has issued 3,600 Tasers to its officers since November 2004. Added to the 100 such weapons already in use there, the city has the highest number of Tasers of any department in the country. And officers seem to be using them right and left.

Between November 2004, when the Houston Police Department began issuing Tasers to a large segment of the force, and the end of January 2005, cops in that city used their Tasers 194 times, according to Randall Kallinen, president of the Houston chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union — including 14 times when people were blasted simply for “verbal aggression.” That means, he said, “that, in the first three months of having these new Tasers ... HPD thought being told to ‘jump in the lake’ by someone they were talking to was reason enough to taser them.”

The weapons “were sold to the city with the promise that excessive police force against civilians would diminish, particularly shootings,” he said. “Well, in 2004 there were 10 civilians shot by HPD. It’s now June, and we have the Tasers, and while we still have had five civilians shot by HPD to date this year, we also have had several hundred uses of Tasers — which means that deadly force against civilians is remaining the same, but excessive force is increasing wildly.”

Tasers are to batons what bombs are to hand-to-hand combat, he said. “With the baton the officer hears the sound, watches you grimace, hears your scream. With the Taser, you just fall down and shake. You can’t scream. It gives the officer a more comfortable distance from the experience.”

Despite lawsuits and some highly publicized fatalities, Taser abuse by police seems to be growing rather than diminishing. Probably the most disturbing fact in the Amnesty report is that deaths following Taser attacks seem to be rapidly increasing. According to Amnesty, between 2001 and 2004 more than 70 deaths occurred in the United States and Canada to people in police custody within hours or days of their being hit with a Taser. But in 2005, those kinds of deaths reached 103 just by March — and there were at least two additional deaths in April, including Eric Hammock’s in Fort Worth.

While TASER International has repeatedly released reports to the press saying that no Taser has ever been proven to be a “direct cause” of a fatality, Amnesty International points out that “some medical experts believe Taser shocks may exacerbate a risk of heart failure in cases where people are agitated or under the influence of drugs or have underlying health problems.”

In reviewing the information on 74 deaths reported since 2001 — including autopsy reports on 21 — Amnesty points out that nearly all the deaths occurred in males between 18 and 59 years old, of varying ethnic origin. Most of them involved the M26 Taser, which is used much more frequently than the newer X26. The majority of those who died following Taser shocks had high quantities of drugs or alcohol in their systems, and “violent struggle, positional asphyxia, and excited delirium were cited in some cases as a sole or contributory factor leading to sudden cardiac arrest.” Amnesty investigators, however, believe that the Taser had a role in at least some of the deaths, suggesting the shock “could have exacerbated breathing difficulties caused by factors such as violent exertion, drug intoxication, or other restraint devices, triggering or contributing to cardiac arrest.”

Medical examiners in at least five cases included the Taser as a contributing factor in the deaths, though that number could be higher, according to an independent forensic pathologist who reviewed 16 of the autopsy reports for Amnesty.

Most disturbing is the fact that few of the people who died were engaged in violent criminal activity, which would normally be an assumption in deaths while in police custody. “In only 11 cases were suspects reported to be armed,” the Amnesty report noted. “While most of the deceased had been engaged in disturbed or agitated behavior, and some were reportedly combative during arrest, few appeared to pose an immediate threat of substantial physical harm at the time force was used.”

Several deaths, like Guerrero’s, occurred after incidents began with suspects being tasered while passively resisting arrest or “refusing to comply immediately with an order.” Those cases include one in which James Borden, 47, a mentally disturbed man, was jolted with a Taser six times for refusing to step out of his shorts while being booked into a jail in Monroe County, Ga. — and several of those jolts were administered while he was pinned down by four officers. He died almost immediately. Glenn Richard Leyba, 37, of Glendale, Colo., was blasted five times while he lay on the floor of his home in a drug-induced stupor. He died while being wheeled to an ambulance. Gordon Randall Jones, 37, was jolted at least 12 times with a Taser after he’d been disruptive outside a hotel in Orange County, Fla. “and refused to leave and pulled away from deputies.” After the 12th hit, he accompanied officers to an ambulance and died en route to the hospital.

More than 25 of those who died after being attacked with Tasers had a history of mental illness; several others were “ill through drug intoxication,” and at least two more had been shocked immediately following epileptic seizures. “Many of these individuals were not involved in criminal behavior at the time they were taken into custody. Amnesty International believes that the appropriate response in such cases should have been to seek medical attention or ... mental health crisis intervention rather than a law enforcement response,” the report said.

In all, four deaths following Taser use have occurred in Texas, including the one that occurred this spring when a 43-year-old architect driving across the state made an unexplained — and ultimately fatal — detour in Fort Worth.

Eric Hammock, 43, was on his way home from Louisiana to Midland on the night of April 3, when he got of I-30 at the Riverside exit at about 8:20 p.m. Autopsy results would later show that he was high on coc aine. For some unknown reason, he drove into the nearby Waste Management truck depot, which was closed at the time, and being guarded by off-duty Fort Worth Police C.P. Birley, a 20-year veteran. When Hammock ignored Birley’s request to stop his car, Birley radioed for backup, then followed Hammock in his civilian car when Hammock left the facility a few minutes later. After a short chase, Hammock — almost certainly unfamiliar with the area — drove onto a dead-end street, then abandoned his car and fled on foot. Birley and the backup officers caught up with him in the backyard of a house on Retta Street. According to Birley, Hammock tried to hit him, and the officer discharged his Taser, hitting Hammock in the chest. Hammock pulled the wires from his chest and had to be wrestled to the ground, during which period he was hit by the Taser multiple times. When he was finally subdued, Hammock complained that he couldn’t breathe. Police called for an ambulance, and Hammock was taken to John Peter Smith hospital, where he was pronounced dead 40 minutes later.

The medical examiner’s report, released on April 28, showed that Hammock suffered from heart disease and that he was jacked way up on coc aine. The official cause of death, in layman’s terms, was heart failure caused by coc aine intoxication. As in the Guerrero case, the Taser was not considered a contributing factor in Hammock’s death, despite the multiple jolts he had received. The case is still under investigation by Fort Worth police, and no officers have been disciplined.

Hammock’s family has hired an attorney. His widow told the Midland Reporter Telegram that a Retta Street resident who watched the end of the chase told her that police made no attempt to aid Hammock after he became visibly distressed and didn’t call for the ambulance until they saw the resident watching them.

Hammock’s aunt told the Weekly that Eric was a good father and husband and that she thinks he simply got lost “and then turned into that place and got cornered.

“I don’t understand any of it,” Jackie Hammock said.

Eight months before that, Troy Dale Nowell, 51, died after being shocked several times while being subdued by Amarillo police after assaulting three people. The autopsy gave the cause of death as a cardiopulmonary arrest during a violent physical struggle. Nowell had a history of heart disease that was listed as a contributing factor. No drugs were found in his blood. Following the death, the Amarillo Police Department immediately announced their intention to quadruple the number of Tasers the department employs.

The fourth Texas case involved Samuel Wakefield, 22, who was driving with three friends on the night of Sept. 12, 2004, when their car was stopped for speeding by an officer in Rio Vista, just south of Cleburne. The first officer called for backup because, according to the police report, one of the passengers was behaving furtively and trying to leave the car. When other officers arrived, Wakefield bolted. He was chased and tackled and then, when he continued to struggle, was hit with a Taser. He became ill and was brought to Walls Regional Hospital where he was declared dead. The autopsy listed coc aine intoxication as the cause of death.

According to Lt. Sullivan, the local Taser abuse cases are not being taken lightly by Fort Worth police brass. “We’re treating these as serious investigations. The Tasers record when they were used, how many times, and for how long a duration,” he said. The suspensions of the two officers in connection with Robert Guerrero’s death, he said, should send a signal to the rest of the force that abuse will not be tolerated.

“The thing to remember when you’re talking about Tasers is that they are not non-lethal weapons,” Sullivan said. “They are less-lethal weapons. That’s a big difference.”

TASER International would not discuss with the Weekly the question of Tasers contributing to deaths . However, in a February 2004 letter to the ACLU of Colorado, a company official noted that, “If the electrical stimulation of the TASER device were to play a causal role in the death, the death would be immediate, and this has never happened.”

Not surprisingly, a lot of folks remain unconvinced — including a University of Wisconsin-Madison professor who received a $500,000 grant from the U.S. Justice Department to study the matter. Biomedical engineer John Webster told the Associated Press that he believes many Taser-related deaths were actually caused by a combination of drug use and medical factors, but that others may have been caused by a rare condition known as malignant hyperthermia, in which bodies essentially overheat as a result of an electrical jolt. He also theorizes that other deaths may be attributable to potassium released into the bloodstream after muscle contractions caused by a Taser shock reaching the heart. He’s hoping his research will help set standards for how powerful Tasers should be and provide guidelines for emergency room doctors on how to treat those who have been hit with the weapon’s jolt.

Those familiar with the realities of the streets and police work have no problem believing that drugs and electrical shocks are a potent combination. “In my experience,” Luka, the Florida defense attorney, said, “drug people are tasered more often than others, but the truth is that they tend to resist more. They tend to run, get upset and so forth. Still, introducing electricity into a body that’s already jacked up on coc aine or speed — well, boom! Heart failure. And while we’re not seeing it yet on a regular basis, you have to be careful about cops using these things on poor kids in inner cities. The thing is, cops just don’t have to interact anymore. Kid runs? Taser him. And people are dying.”

Police officers from several agencies around the country — none of whom wanted to be quoted by name — all said they assume that, in real-life Taser situations, the combination of fear, the heart-pounding nature of a physical struggle, and drug or alcohol intoxication substantially increases the chances of heart failure. “Add to that, that the guy just got shocked to # and is in extreme pain, and you have a heart-attack cocktail if ever there was one,” one 30-year veteran officer said.

“Don’t forget that the same bad cop who’s going to bully a suspect with half a dozen shocks is the bad cop who’s probably going to hogtie him or chokehold him or kneel on his back 30 seconds longer than he needs to cuff the guy,” another officer said. “Perps die in custody, but they die in the custody of bully cops more often.”

The Amnesty report and the other stories of Taser-related deaths and abuses provide strong evidence that Taser use is out of control in the United States, given that only about 20 percent of those on whom the Tasers have been used were armed and that more than a third of the shocks were administered to people who were simply being “verbally noncompliant” with officers.

There is no national uniform code for the use of Tasers among police agencies. Meanwhile, police agencies are buying and issuing more Tasers every week — without, in most cases, rethinking the policies that list the weapons in their force continuum guidelines as if they were no more dangerous than a shove.

However, TASER International apparently is feeling the heat. In late April, the company announced that it has assembled a group of more than 240 people — from law enforcement, the military, and academic and medical communities — to talk about use-of-force policies regarding what the company continues to call its “nonlethal” product. But the person listed as a media contact on that topic refused to discuss it with the Weekly.

Despite the two deaths here in the last five months, Fort Worth police in general don’t seem to be Taser bullies. In about the last four years, Sullivan said, Fort Worth police have discharged their Tasers only about 180 times — a very conservative number compared to the 194 uses the Houston Police Department noted in just its first three months of using the weapons.

The Fort Worth department has about 600 of the weapons. “They’re issued to officers who take a course on their use — during which each officer who is issued a Taser gets tasered him or herself so that they know what kind of pain they’ll be inflicting,” Sullivan said.

He also suggested that there’s another way to use Tasers — the kind of tactic that police long ago learned to try before shooting a conventional weapon.

“What’s interesting is that while the FWPD has discharged [the Tasers] 180 times, they’ve been displayed another 223 times in which they were not discharged,” he said. “Our officers are trained to show the Taser, and shout: ‘Taser! Taser! Stop or I’ll taser you!’ You’d be surprised how many subjects begin to comply when they see that thing and hear those words.”



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 03:47 PM
link   
Exactly. I've been tasered because I volunteered to do a testing, and let me tell you, it's not the best feeling in the world. It feels like a million rusty needles are cutting into your skin. And the man who was holding the gun only held down the trigger for barely a second. I felt like a few more seconds would kill me.

I am telling you, these people, no matter what the minor crime is, do not deserve to go down like that. So I am telling you, YES I will be willing to literally kill someone in a civil war than let this go on.

TJW, this is not a rare thing. There are about 4 deaths a month from tasers. This is considered a WACO type event. It IS getting worse. Open up your eyes! Once your kid or mother is put into a coma from a blast to the chest, then you will see.


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
lol, You're right they are NOT cooperating! I knew you'd see the light.


Someone doesn't deserve to have their life taken away because they wouldn't get out of the car.

-Chris

[edit on 7/2/2005 by Legend]



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 04:10 PM
link   
(edit: please delete this post)

[edit on 7/2/2005 by Legend]



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 05:32 PM
link   
john titor was proven a fraud wasnt he?



new topics

top topics



 
31
<< 27  28  29    31  32  33 >>

log in

join