The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by re22666

you cannot have it both ways. if it will always be a NEW one, then they will never return to the old one.

It's not an old one, it's a parallel one. Both worldlines are virtually same except one has the computer. Is the cat dead or is the cat alive you don't know until you open the box, as long as he is in the box he is in both states, he is alive and dead.

this is my problem with the entire john titor story. everyone talks in a big circle when tryng to defend him. his story goes in a giant circle and collapses in on itself unless you blindly stick to just part of the circle at a time. like his defenders here seem to be doing. anyone that can actually address the point and explain it without contradicting themselves or exposing that they are just copying and pasting, not UNDERSTANDING, please clear this up.

Originally posted by imitator

It's not an old one, it's a parallel one. Both worldlines are virtually same except one has the computer. Is the cat dead or is the cat alive you don't know until you open the box, as long as he is in the box he is in both states, he is alive and dead.

parallel does not mean both at teh same time. i do not know where you got that analogy but the cat and parallel are two seperate explanations for things. if i need a computer and i send you to the past to get it and you return to a parallel world...um...where is my computer? oh you go somewhere that seems like home so some people think you said you can return but those of us that sent you back to get it are still SOL so why would we bother to send you back in time? you are not even really making sense anymore.

We need to build a time machine. That way we can go back in time to ask John Titor again. But if you watched that show the universe that guy said you can't travel back further than when your time machine was built. But then that could bring up the possibility that our government already has the time machine since 1975?

lol good point Blueboxx... but that is another theory unto itself.

re22666
parallel does not mean both at teh same time. i do not know where you got that analogy but the cat and parallel are two seperate explanations for things.

No not really...

Parallel universes can exist in many states, a universe could be duplicated by splitting into another universe. You've got to ask yourself one question--Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk! What it all comes down to is what we see as probability until it's observed.

If your ignorant to Many-Worlds theory then Google it...It shows that a parallel universes can exist in many states. If you was to look into String Theory you would see that these universes could be traversed by gravity.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by imitator]

Originally posted by imitator


If your ignorant to Many-Worlds theory then Google it...It shows that a parallel universes can exist in many states. If you was to look into String Theory you would see that these universes could be traversed by gravity.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by imitator]

i will thank you in advance to keep your accusations of ignorance to yourself from now on when discussing such things. if YOU actually understood string theory, you would not even have begun to defend john titor in the first place. his entire story flaunts the rules of string theory left and right. you make me laugh by assuming i am ignorant because i do not agree with you pseudo-answers that always tell me to google something. guess what, you can learn about physics in school, from books, from teachers. i am glad you found google and wikipedia but if you were to actually study string theory and GET IT. you would not even bother with this titor crap. that is what i was hoping for, someone who knew enough to resolve the main paradox presented. instead i get insulted and over and over again get non-answers ending with telling to me google something. how about you go believe what you like. you proved to me you do not have a clue about this; not enough to understand half of what you have been repeating. you can copy and paste well, i was looking for someone with the brains and comprehension to actually respond, not advertise google.

I said IF your ignorant to Many-Worlds theory... That is not calling you ignorant, simply means IF your lacking in knowledge of the subject that you should really look it up. I'm not calling you ignorant lol. There is nothing wrong with copying and pasting as long as I know what I'm talking about, it makes things much quicker. Didn't you ever take notes in school? It's the same thing buddy.....

you proved to me you do not have a clue about this; not enough to understand half of what you have been repeating. you can copy and paste well,

You know why I can copy and paste well, because I know what the f@(k I'm talking about. You just need to relax and reread this Titor stuff and quit misinterpreting everything.... I really have this sh^* memorized. I understand everyone has their viewpoint, but your taking it the wrong way and in the wrong thread.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by imitator]

re22666
i am glad you found google and wikipedia but if you were to actually study string theory and GET IT. you would not even bother with this titor crap.

You haven't given me any indication that you GET IT... so before I'm off to work and since my book is bigger than your school book, answer me this String Theory QUESTION, [prove to me you know at least something] What does gravity have to do with these parallel universes?

[edit on 15-8-2008 by imitator]

Originally posted by imitator

You know why I can copy and paste well, because I know what the f@(k I'm talking about. You just need to relax and reread this Titor stuff and quit misinterpreting everything.... I really have this sh^* memorized. I understand everyone has their viewpoint, but your taking it the wrong way and in the wrong thread.

[edit on 15-8-2008 by imitator]

lololololol. makes you angry when someone you dont know questions your knowledge doesnt it? well goody on you for memorizing john titors writings. that is super. now go learn some physics. learn about string theory. memorizing john titors books is great but memorizing "how the grinch stole christmas" does not make you a historical scholar. you admit right there that your knowledge is about john titor. that is very nice for you. what i am pointing out is that what he himself said....contradicts the very string theory he claims to utilize here. go memorize string theory. go memorize our current knowledge of physics. if you truly knew what you were talking about, you would have been able to answer me in your own words by now but you havent. all you have done is copy and paste and you did not even realized that some of the stuff you pasted contradicted each other. that shows right there that all you understand is how to repeat the titor bs you memorized but not the actual concept behind it. if you know what you are talking about, answer me, in your own words. it should have been really simple by now but you havent done it. i asked in my own words. in fact all i have presented so far are my own words. i asked a clear, logical question that can either be answered or explains why this is a hoax. so far, the response i got, is contradicting pasted sentences, insults, and now anger. but hey, if your logic tells you that you can copy and paste so well because you memorized john's writings, then i understand why you believe his story so much. if you have an answer, cool. if you want to call me ignorant, or infer it, and if you just want to repost old john titor sentences that do not address what was asked, please do that with someone else. i would like an actual answer or an intelligent response. insult me, and you get insulted back, it seems you cant take that. maybe now you will stick to the posts and keep insults at home.

Originally posted by imitator

re22666
i am glad you found google and wikipedia but if you were to actually study string theory and GET IT. you would not even bother with this titor crap.

You haven't given me any indication that you GET IT... so before I'm off to work and since my book is bigger than your school book, answer me this String Theory QUESTION, [prove to me you know at least something] What does gravity have to do with these parallel universes?

[edit on 15-8-2008 by imitator]

ahhh, an assignment to prove my knowledge. lets see, i could answer, but then what? accuse me of googling it first? i must have gone and looked it up on wikipedia, or whatever. i already proved that i know what i am talking about by asking an intelligent question in my own words and carrying on this discussion with even more of my own words. you copy and paste things you show know indication of understanding. so since i asked first, how about you answer me, without being rude or insulting. answer me in your own words. explain something you pasted in your own words to me. show you understand anything you have said and then id be happy to take all the quizzes you have. until then, if you do not like it, do not answer me. i am sure there is someone else who knows just as little but loves titor just as much that will come along and do your job for you. i am holding out for someone who can comprehend and then explain, not google and copy and paste. if you really want, you can bring your one big book over here. we can set it next to my book(S) and degrees. then we can discuss how lonely your big book looks and why you should keep insults out of it.

reply to post by Simulacra


one thing

olympics!! secondly that was HIS timeline

david

Originally posted by imitator

You know why I can copy and paste well, because I know what the f@(k I'm talking about.
[edit on 15-8-2008 by imitator]

really?

It will always be a new worldline for the traveler, even when he returns back to his exact worldline of origin.

it does not seem that you even understand the logical blackhole that sentence must have fallen into but it shows, once again, you can copy and paste. explain that to me in your own words. explain how it is always new, and sometimes old. please share your great knowledge with us.

imitator
It will always be a new worldline for the traveler, even when he returns back to his exact worldline of origin.

re22666
it does not seem that you even understand the logical blackhole that sentence must have fallen into but it shows, once again, you can copy and paste. explain that to me in your own words. explain how it is always new, and sometimes old. please share your great knowledge with us.

I will skip most of the crap you posted, one would think a educated person would use paragraphs, but it's the internet.....

First of all what is wrong with copying and pasting quotes? Copying is a time honored means of learning and sometimes a form of flattery... I suppose you just gave me unintended compliment, you just copied my own words and you claim that I copied and pasted it. Those are my own words... I guess Imitation is really the sincerest form of flattery. I never said "sometimes old." You mentioned OLD remember?

2nd I have answered your question several times, and before that Titor. It would only be fair for you to answer my question, though I kind of expected that you would get to this point. Yes I could of accused you of googling it, and if you answered correctly I could of went.... You see it does relate to String Theory. At least you knew it was a trap, I guess it shows you may know something.

At this point I think you have a degree in BS and your books would probably make good toilet paper. YOU still need to give me some indication you know something... by saying you have degree doesn't count for anything does it? Your supposed "intelligent" question has been asked several times to Titor and been answered with no contradictions by him.

Anyway moving along....

Again I will give you my answer...... you can google it too, these are my words....
It will always be a new worldline for the traveler, even when he returns back to his exact worldline of origin.

Exact worldline of origin is where worldlines are duplicated by splitting off parallel to each other and so on... as explained on pg224 "in my own words." If a worldline can be traversed into another worldline, it becomes a new worldline parallel to its location. When the traveler returns to this "duplicated split of origin" it's a new worldline. One duplicate worldline has the traveler the other doesn't. (traveler 1 present) (traveler 1 absent) from there it goes into infinite possibilities. It can be a mix bag of Everett and Bohr.

Of course it's all hypothetical I can never be certain unless I have a machine that can observe worldlines. However, if I trust the internet postings of time traveler and a little bit of science, there is some hope.


[edit on 16-8-2008 by imitator]

reply to post by imitator



it seems the problem here is that i assumed you were communicating in english, using english words and english rules. apparently wherever you are, "new" and "old" are exactly the same. repeating it will be new, even when it is old, is just plain wrong. your decription does a better job of explaining the concept, it show you are getting closer. unfortunately, you then repeat that it is old even when it is new. this is not what really happens. this is not what your own explanation says. i never said you cannot copy and paste to make a point. i said that if all you can do is copy and paste, then it shows you do not understand enough to use your own words. you just proved me right with that little rant. you say things that clearly do not mesh with each other, but it sounds just like what you read. ok buddy.
you want paragraphs, here you go. now you can complain about my use of capitalization and call that effective debate if you like. i did not ask you to answer, nor did i come here bragging about my education or knowledge. you answered me, with the standard titorfan BS and then told me just how smart you are. i responded in kind. how about this, will it make it easier if i grew up in a box and have knowledge of nothing but words and how to type. now explain it in a believable way. i could care less what you think of my personally or my intellect, or my education. since you have not been able to just answer it without contradicting yourself with the babbble that you read, i could be anyone and you are getting anywhere anyway.
you back it up over and over with telling me about what john said. who cares what john said. if i say that i can fly. years later when people say that i was a fraud and a liar, would it be a good argument for people to just use my own words to prove that i could fly? so takes johns words and stick them back under the carpet for a moment. you want to go with string theory, go for it. now explain how, within the limits of string theory, john could return with the things he was sent to retrieve and present them to the very people that sent him there.
when that fails, go back to john's words if you like. without just quoting him again and completely missing the contradiction that you have posted 3 times now, actually try to explain it. maybe then you will find yourself in the very paradox that you are refusing to actually address. if you really expect me to answer your questions to prove to you that i have any knowledge you feel i should...then i expect you to answer my first question....FIRST.
i asked a question, you decided to answer. your answer is crap. now you want me to prove i am anything to you? how about do not reply to my post with non-answers over and over again. just move along. let someone who has studied physics more than john titors diary answer.

reply to post by imitator

If a worldline can be traversed into another worldline, it becomes a new worldline parallel to its location. When the traveler returns to this "duplicated split of origin" it's a new worldline.

this is the closest you get to an actual answer and it still belies the very sentence you keep highlighting it with. you can get back to the intersection of where you left and the new worldline your return trip creates. that is what that says. that means he will not be in his original worldline to give that computer info back to the guys that wanted it. he will go back to where he came from, take the newly formed left hand turn, and continue on in a worldline that may be completely indistinguishable from his own. but how does that help the guys that sent him back? how do they get what they sent him for? so why would they bother?

re22666
how does that help the guys that sent him back? how do they get what they sent him for? so why would they bother?

Depends on which guys//

For the sake of brevity, when worldlines split they are relative to each other, if a traveler traversed a worldline it would split parallel to its location simultaneously, much like the cat is split into two states (dead or alive). Again here is the answer to your question..... "I retrieved the computer" occupies a mutually unobservable parallel world from "where is my computer" thus diverging into all possible outcomes.

Originally posted by imitator

re22666
how does that help the guys that sent him back? how do they get what they sent him for? so why would they bother?

Depends on which guys//

For the sake of brevity, when worldlines split they are relative to each other, if a traveler traversed a worldline it would split parallel to its location simultaneously, much like the cat is split into two states (dead or alive). Again here is the answer to your question..... "I retrieved the computer" occupies a mutually unobservable parallel world from "where is my computer" thus diverging into all possible outcomes.

lol, oh you are a cute one. you think using terms and words that you read and putting them into sentences says something and if not, well then i must be to stupid to get it. in fact what you said is nothing. you proved nothing. you backed up nothing. you cleared up nothing. your analogy is still way off. and like others pointed out, you are now filling in your own fantasy for john's since his is whofully incomplete. i already told you to just go ahead and pretend i was raised in a box and no nothing of english.
i know the words you speak, what they mean, how they relate to each other. i also know the stupid cat in a box experiment you really really want to mesh with this. unfortunately that is a hypothesis, which only works with hypothetical cats. we are talking about a real person in the real world are we not? ok then. talk down to me. use sentences that actually convey a message in them and try again. or you could give up and leave like the others before you that simply fail to use english to explain john titor, string theory, the reason for his trip, and how that all does NOT add up. cute little string of words though, submit it to your english professor or your physic professor. see if either one thinks it says anything meaningful, sweety.

out of interest, to the people who believe the titor story to be real could you all give an answer as to why you believe it.

There are lots of reasons to disbelieve it, to me the only reason to belive it is to trust what you have read on an internet forum posted by someone 8 years ago.

Also can somone explain how if time travel is possible where are the time travellors? JT can't be the only one, there would be almost literally inumerable opportunities to travel through time and for people to travel and to have travelled, so why and how do we not know about it.

But yes if you honestly believe the explanation of time travel to be correct why not do something with that rather than arguing on an internet forum, seek to develop time travel (sounds far fetched yes, but if you think it is possible based on JT why not go for it through education or presenting a theory to the relevant bodies)

re22666
your analogy is still way off. and like others pointed out, you are now filling in your own fantasy for john's since his is whofully incomplete.

So do tell how my analogy is way off... And please explain who are these others? Maybe its you thats living in a fantasy world, again at this point I only see you addressing me like a drama queen. .

re22666
i already told you to just go ahead and pretend i was raised in a box and no nothing of english.

Why would I pretend that you was raised in a box, for all I know you was probably raised in a box.

Here is how you explained it, will it make it easier if i grew up in a box and have knowledge of nothing but words and how to type. If you had knowledge of nothing you wouldn't have words or know how to type. This would lead me to believe that you need to get out of the box and learn.

re22666
i know the words you speak, what they mean, how they relate to each other.

If you know the words that I speak, then you know that I gave you an answer. It seems that your stuck with this paradox.

I just saw another story today about the Russians moving Nukes into the Balkans to thwart any future expansion by NATO.

Interesting isn't it with all the talk about Russia thinking about putting nukes in the Baltic fleet, threatenning to nuke Poland, resuming their air patrols, threats over Ukraine and Georgia NATO membership.

Does the continuing conflict between Arabs and Jews have anything to do with the upcoming war?
Yes.

Syria: Time ripe for closer Russia military ties

Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency.

Yes. Consistency... Rice: Military Power is "Not the Way To Deal in the 21st Century"

This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election.

Yep. The riots and unlawful arrests at the 2004 Republican convention.

The Jewish population in Israel is not prepared for a true offensive war. They are prepared for the ultimate defense.

Not a true offensive war? Failed against Hezbollah. Ultimate defense? The Arrow system and the Iron Dome anti-missile shields, also bunkers everywhere for civilians.

Wavering western support for Israel is what gives Israel's neighbors the confidence to attack.

US refuses to sell planes to Israel, fearing strike on Iran and the selling of high-tech weapons to Syria by Russia, it would mean that Israel is gonna disapear in the next 2-3 years. Also Georgia, an ally of the US, but not in NATO was attacked but no one helped it... which weaken the Israeli side.

I keep saying her tune will change in about ten years and she'll be cleaning shotguns in her sleep but it doesn't help.

Titor said this in 2001. Which means he won't fight until 2011-2012, he said that fighting was pretty much everywhere by 2012. No ``open fighting`` in 2004 as you seem to believe.

When the civil "conflict" started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas.

There. He says civil ``conflict``, not ``war``.

By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the "cities" and the "country" was well defined. Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city.

It was ``defined`` not in terms of rich/poor... it was divided in terms of ``freedom`` and no freedom in cities. Police everywhere in cities, and somewhat of no police harassing you in rural areas.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by Vitchilo]