Originally posted by utrex
You can't even carbon date a polaroid picture. It only works on organic materials, not manufactured ones.

hmmm what is the film mounted on? Oh thats right paper and paper is organic, not that it matters a hill of beans, but paper is used, therefore it could be carbon dated.

A polaroid? Mine look like they're made from plastic.

Plastic, paper, who cares? The point is it seems that time traveling affects some chemical systems (carbon-14/carbon-12) but not others (batteries, film emulsion, etc.)? Again, sounds like complete crap. But yes, you're absolutely right, C-14 only works for once living things.

You are right. An instance of time travel should not have any effect on how a substance carbon dates (i.e. it should give the same measurement before and after).

Simulcra: I think this is a well researched thread and very different from the other John Titor threads. Not sure I buy the interaction between all of the predictions though.

Originally posted by Mynaeris
Not sure I buy the interaction between all of the predictions though.

Not sure if I buy it either. But still interesting nonetheless.

As far as the polaroid being carbon dated, this was a mistake on my part as Carbon 14 is only found in organic material. However, a dating method was used on this polaroid and it was agreed upon that it was much older then what it could theoretically be.

Maybe the time traveler took the photo...hid it somewhere in the past, went back into modern times and possible dug it up. That could explain the aging. However, I do remember reading about this in a Fortean Times, not sure if anyone else caught this article.

Sim, did you see my thread on the predictions I did dousing with the crystal. I also got a civil war in 2005 in US except according to me it will occurr around december, end of the year there will be two civil wars in UK, one in 2008(race war) and 2010(revolution)

And you know what is further interesting, Titor alluded that Chinese forcibly annexed Japan and Australia repelled a Chinese invasion. And just recently China has threatened Japan and Austraia both. It seems like Titor could well be true.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Sim, did you see my thread on the predictions I did dousing with the crystal.

I've read a few of your Titor threads with interest yet I didn't come across your predictions correlating with Titors. Can you give me a link?

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
And you know what is further interesting, Titor alluded that Chinese forcibly annexed Japan and Australia repelled a Chinese invasion.

No he didn't....

And just recently China has threatened Japan and Austraia both. It seems like Titor could well be true.

Umm....no China hasn't....(unless I somehow missed it. Could you provide a link?)
That wouldn't be wise at all on their part....




Titor was a fraud.

No he didn't....

Yes he did.

Umm....no China hasn't....(unless I somehow missed it. Could you provide a link?)
That wouldn't be wise at all on their part....

Umm, yes it has. The tensions between China and Japan has been mounting and Japan is worried of possible Chinese aggression. As is Taiwan. There is a thread right now discussing the secret threat of China against Australia.

Titor was a fraud.

Whatever you say.

I really cannot be bothered to be digging into the archives. I suggest you read them yourself.

1. Nothing he has said predicted to happen up to this point has come true, or even remotely close to being true.

Could that be because the minimum time frame of Titors predictions beginning - 2005 - has just started and there are 9 months to go.

2. Time travel isn't possible.

And how can you be so certain?

3. Even if all he said was real, he said he was from a different worldline. And that the stuff that happened during his life will not neccessarily happen in our worldline

Said it was only a 1% divergence, and the events in this time line were not that different.

Originally posted by niv
Putting aside the issue of whether Titor is real or a fake, an American revolution occurring in the very near future is nearly impossible. For one thing, Americans aren't particularly divided right now. Of course, segments of the population will always be strongly opposed to the politics of the other. Just during my lifetime I can think of far more internally troubling (and polarizing) periods, such as the fight over civil rights, the Vietnam War, Watergate etc.

When everyone is agreeing, then the chances of a civil war are increased. When we all disagree in large numbers, then it is difficult to get a consensus and dedication to supress any particular group of people. When there is a majority to bully a minority, then action can be taken, discrimination can be accomplished, and America can be divided more easily. America is founded on disagreement, we depend on it, it is our strength that we are allowed and encouraged to disagree.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I really cannot be bothered to be digging into the archives. I suggest you read them yourself.

Are you kidding? I have! Many times.
I love the whole Titor thing, but I see it as it is....
Fiction.

Could that be because the minimum time frame of Titors predictions beginning - 2005 - has just started and there are 9 months to go.

Actually:

* (How and why do the Arabs Jews become entangled in the civil war of the U.S.A?)
JT: They are not directly involved but political situations are dependant on Western stability, which collapses in 2005.

I can tell you now, the West (US, Europe, etc.) will not collapse in 9 months. Stuff like that takes years, not months to happen.

*(8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???))
JT: It's 2004....

*JT: The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.

This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election.

Seems 2004 or earlier would be the minimal for all these things to start.

2. Time travel isn't possible.

And how can you be so certain?

It's kind of hard to prove a negative.....

Time travel is physically impossible. Tell me why you believe otherwise and I will answer those questions.

Said it was only a 1% divergence, and the events in this time line were not that different.

So when 2006 gets here and nothing has happened, will you blame it on the 1%?

Are you kidding? I have! Many times.
I love the whole Titor thing, but I see it as it is....
Fiction.

Well then you should know that he also said Japan, Taiwan and South Korea were forcibly annexed. He also said Australia repulsed a Chinese invasion attempt.

I can tell you now, the West (US, Europe, etc.) will not collapse in 9 months. Stuff like that takes years, not months to happen.

No, it doesn't. It took a single day for the entire geography of global politics to shift, that day was 9/11. He said western stability will collapse due to the situation in the middle east. It is 2005 right now, and ever since it has started, we are hearing constant threats of invasions and military action against Iran and Syria. We are also hearing that some EU countries do not support this.

US economy is in a dire state right now, it cannot support anymore wars, especially with Iran, with is a regional power and has quite a strong army. So, this means more tax dollars and a possible draft. It is guaranteed that the US people will pay a high price for this war. There's one impetus for a civil war.

It sounds a lot like western stability could collapse. So far, Titor's predictions don't seem that unlikely to happen, given the events.

Seems 2004 or earlier would be the minimal for all these things to start.

Titor uses both 2004 and 2005 interchangably, because civil unrest develops around election time. And it indeed did. So, relative to titor who is claiming a future perspective, December 2004 is the beginning. Which really is the beginning of 2005.

And how can you be so certain?
It's kind of hard to prove a negative.....

Time travel is physically impossible. Tell me why you believe otherwise and I will answer those questions.

First and foremost, "time travel could be possible" is not a negative. The negative is stating "time travel isn't possible" and yes a negative like this is difficult to disprove, that is why the statement itself constitutes a logical fallacy.

I tell you, why I believe otherwise, because time is relative to the observer and is different for each event in the universe, further still, the nature of tmie is not understood by modern physics. Another reason, is superstring theory, where infinite parallell dimensions exist, which only differ by certain events. Finally, the physical universe that you perceive and the apparent physicality of yourself and your surroundings, is really nothing more than a string of quantum events. If you were to theoretically slow down your by time by distorting your time field by a gravitational distortion field, you would no longer exist on this time line. Remember, Einstein's predicate that time stops near a higher gravitational field, such as that of a blackhole or approaching the speed of light. Now, if it were possible there were infinite parallel time lines diverging from each other in varying degrees. It would be possible to jump from one timeline to the other.

Now, a microsingularity as Titor said, would provide that gravitational energy and by accelerating or spinning that that towards the speed of light or at a very high rate of speed - the observors time field would be distorted.

The reason why many, especially of the scientific disposition, take Titor somewhat seriously, is because his physics could work, and superstring theories predicates keep us reason to believe that it is possible.

[edit on 9-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by jtma508
Plastic, paper, who cares? The point is it seems that time traveling affects some chemical systems (carbon-14/carbon-12) but not others (batteries, film emulsion, etc.)? Again, sounds like complete crap. But yes, you're absolutely right, C-14 only works for once living things.

Paper and plastic are both organic. Paper comes from trees obviously.
Plastic is a hydrocarbon chain, a precursor to protein, QED Plastic is flesh and chemicals compressed and mixed together.

Dating by elements other than Carbon Ions is also possible by the attempt to find signatures of other elements. Alpha decay detection is common for highly radioactive heavy metals such as Uranium, Plutonium, and Americanium(sp?)

From what I have read in this thread I can only say it is probable given the way things seem to be going. This could also mean that there is no prediction in the prophetic sense and is mearly an interpolation based on Titor's experiences here if he is a fiction author.

p.s. phone is back on, thus I am back, and will be getting DSL on monday.. w00t!

One thing to remember about John Titor, if you believe his story, is that he was just a regular guy picked for part of a time-travel team on the basis of his psych-profile. He wasn't a scientist or a historian, so you could expect him to be off the mark some of the time. I think he said he was just born at the time he was here, so it would be like asking someone born in 1935 about all the events that started WW2. In 1939, did everyone know it was the start of a world war? I don't think so. If we escalate all the current conflicts into a world war next year, will historians say it started in 2006 or with the attack on Afghanistan, or Iraq, or the threats against Iran and Syria and North Korea?

As for "Waco type" events, I think he was referring to citizens discovering they have no rights or protections anymore. I wouldn't be looking for the govt. to burn down a compound every month, but I would be looking closely at all the stories of torture, breaches of international law, human rights violations, the formation of new intelligence agencies, unlimited power to these groups, and the misuse of power. These are all "Waco type" events that are happening every month.

I don't know if John Titor was really a time traveller or a fraud but I can see his scenario coming true.