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The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

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posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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*****


Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-02-2001 07:52 AM


John,
I know sports questions are not good for you, so how about a couple of other questions? Does GW survive his presidency or is there an attempt on his life? That should be historically documented. Do the current inhabitants of this here planet travel to Mars between now and 2036? If that is the case when does that happen? n,


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The questions about the president and space travel are reasonable but now we come to a conflict between physics and ethics. First, the ethics:

I have seen a television program about a man who is able to speak with the dead. When I watch the show, I am more afraid about the possibility that what he is doing is real not weather or not he is doing it. Since I will be leaving this worldline in the coming year, I could easily tell you that the President lives or dies in the next four years. In fact, I could probably find some way to even charge you for it. When the day comes for my “prediction” to be realized it will either happen or not. If it does happen, then your ability to judge your environment is crippled by your acceptance of me as a “knower of all things” and gifted with the ability to tell the future.

What?
No. It'd mean you made an extremely lucky guess. This isn't your worldline remember? And you won't be here so it really wouldn't matter what we think of you.


If I am wrong, then everything I have said that might possibly have made you think about your world in a different way is suddenly discredited.

Too late!


I do not want either. Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality. You are able to change your worldine for better or worse just as I am. Although this will make me a far less interesting time traveler, these are the rules I personally try to hold to:

1. I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge. This means no stock or sports tips.

Wait.....didn't he tell us to invest in hydrogen fuel cells? Yes! Yes he did.


2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information.

Go north.

Jacksonville get's hit by a nuke.


3. I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being. I will not disclose names or events associated with individuals.

How about the nuke killing his "love"
lol
When did he have time to fall in love and what did he know about love? He was what? 17? 18? And in the army since 13...

How about the farmer general?


Now for the physics: The grandfather paradox is impossible. In fact, all paradox is impossible.

Nonsense. Time travel itself is a paradox.


The Everett-Wheeler-Graham or multiple world theory is correct. All possible quantum states, events, possibilities and outcomes are real, eventual and occurring. The chances of everything happening someplace at sometime in the superverse is 100%. (For all you scientists out there, if Schrodinger’s cat had a time machine, he might not be in the box at all.)

Explaining this to Glyph, though I don't buy into this. He's taking the easy way out. There's not one shred of evidence to suggest this and testing this is IMPOSSIBLE.


Therefore, there is a worldline where you are alive and another worldline where you have gone back in time to kill your relative and the you on the new worldline won’t be born but “you” the killer is still running around there. Differences between worldlines are measured from the perspective of the time traveler in terms of divergence percentage. The higher the divergence, the more “un-like” your destination worldline looks like compared to your worldline of origin.

Therefore, any “prediction” I might make has a slight chance of being incorrect anyway and you now have the ability to act on it based on what I’ve said. Can you stop the war before it gets here? Sure. Will you do it? Probably not.

Please, he just said there's unlimited possibilities and any predictions could be incorrect anyway. There's NO WAY he could have known if a war was to take place on this worldline or not.


As far as space travel goes... no, we are not on Mars yet but we’re trying very hard so we can avoid another “Hell’s Kitchen” outcome from an overpopulated Earth

Please. Overpopulated? Half the world was just wiped out

Mortality and morbidity rates are high. You wouldn't have to worry about an overpopulated earth for hundreds of years.



Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 10:26 AM


John,

As I read more and more of your posts, I am admittedly intrigued, but increasingly annoyed by your insistance.

OK, fine, there are ethical issues, relating to lotto numbers and gambling, so tell us something like how many will be found dead in the earthquake in India. Tell us something that happens in politics on a national level.
Surely you can tell us *something* that has a neutral moral effect on society.

You stated:

"Although I do have personal reasons for being here and speaking with you, the most I could hope for is that you recognize the possibility of time travel as a reality"

Tell us something we don't know!! Look at what message board you are on!! How redundant can one be? Of course it's not unreasonable that most of us on here certainly think that time travel is a possibility!!..come on...

"2. I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability. This means no earthquake or bomb information"

Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.

John, it's becoming clearer to me that you are simply a fraud...how sad indeed...you can still save yourself, but you better do it soon.

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Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 10:53 AM


Perhaps it would be better if you just considered me a fraud. I really don’t have a problem with that. If that were the case, could we then have discussions that you were comfortable with?

((Why not? What the hell is wrong with you? If I knew someone was going to be in a situation where they may die, and there was a chance I could stop it, I have the moral obligation to do something about it.))

I can think of a couple of examples.

If the Egyptians knew the Red Sea was going to drown them, do you think they would have pursued Moses?

If you could go back in time to 1941 and tell the radar operators to take a second look at the radar screen on December 7th, would you? Before you say yes and accept that parade in your honor down main street, perhaps you should go forward in time and see if the U.S still had the motivation to make the A-bomb before Hitler did.

1. No the Egyptians wouldn't have persued Moses, and they would have lived. The Israelites would still be free. Nothing changes except there are more people alive.....on that worldline.

2. Yes. That wouldn't have stopped the war. Plus, nothing you do matters right?

Horrible examples that don't address the question.

[edit on 21-6-2007 by ThatsJustWeird]




posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird




Unfortunately, time travel is not an exact science. There is inherent error and chaos in the computers ability to make accurate calculations. Based on the current technology of the clocks and sensors, distortion units are only accurate to about 60 years or so. So no, in 2036, we are unable to travel back 1000 years due to the error rate in the system. The divergence between the worldline of origin and the target worldline would be too great. If one were to try and travel back that far, history would look nothing like what you would expect.

2. Time travel would HAVE to be an exact science. Bad choice of words.
3. "The divergence between the worldline of origin and the target worldline would be too great."
Target worldline? hmmm....So apparently you CAN choose which worldline you want to go to, right Glyph? lol

"If one were to try and travel back that far, history would look nothing like what you would expect."
How can this be if that's OUR worldline glyph?


ok this is a very big issue as far as im concerned, i have never read this post in all my readings of titor.

however the "choice" is still just a choice of what date to travel to. it is not a conscience choice of alternate timelines.


ok there are 3 main possibilties.(that i can see)

1. titor was told by the engineers that the device is accurate up to 60 years, and was told that if the traveller exceeded those specs he would compromise his travels. so titor filled in the gaps(assuming its error would hold to divergence). but i think the error would create the lost in space scenario.

2. the device he is useing has the ability to travel from one dimension to another, but is currently being approached as an error. much more information is needed to determine that.

3. hes a hoax and this was the information i was looking for to determine that.

4. i dont know what im talking about:/



posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 03:47 PM
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why is this thread still going on?! ITS 2007! HE WAS WRONG! THE END!



posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 03:50 PM
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Some pretty good questions are asked next, and some stuff said that I wish Titor went over more.
Like this:

Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-02-2001 11:09 AM

John,

I am certainly not uncomfortable in thinking that you are a fraud, although it would bring me (and others) great comfort if you could prove yourself.

You chose only to reply to my statement of the moral obligation to help others if you knew they were going to die, (but still not directly, as I was saying that if you knew someone who was going to be in a life-threatening situation, especially a family member or friend, it's your duty to get them out of it...I was not talking about people who knew of their imminent deaths...and your 1941 example was not clear...

Yet you didn't bother to reply to me when I said that you were being redundant when you say that your wish is to get others to believe that time travel is a possibility. Again, I will say, that the whole premise of this board is based on the paranormal, and if anything, most of us *already* believe that time travel is a possibility, ncluding myself...so your many posts on this board are on the basis of redundancy.

Again I will ask: Tell us something that is morally neutral, like a near-future event in Hollywood or politics...something...come on, I am giving you chance after chance, I want to beleive...

I am trying to be objective about this, but as you continually evade and dodge the real questions, you become less and less credible.

No adequate answer....
He sort of responds to this after James' post.


Posted by James Boley on 02-02-2001 11:17 AM


John,

I applaud your story. It would make for a great book or Hollywood movie.

You keep mentioning ethics as an excuse not to divulge information of the near future, however you still freely talk about other items such as the physics behind your machine or facts about the far future.

I have a hard time believing that time travel, if possible and if it will be done, would be done in such a lax way. (This is what I've said as well0 What would happen if you, while traveling on personel business, died while visiting yourself. Or what if a scientist reading this thread who in the future will develop time travel alters his patterns of study and changes the future, thus changing you thus changing everything?

The mere chance of a severe dominoe effect would, I believe, limit time travel on a very strict and limited manner, if it is allowed at all! Why would a group of seemingly inteligent people risk changing there present on the desire to see themselves in the past?

While entertaining, your story is bogus.

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Posted by John Titor on 02-02-2001 11:41 AM


I fail to understand why my words generate so much conflict. I think it’s far better for you to consider what I say as fantasy so there is no question of credibility. How is my credibility going to affect your life? I don’t want you to believe me and it doesn’t affect me in the least if you did.

I don’t know any other way to tell you that I am unaware of what happens in the next week, especially in Hollywood. Just curious…that's a common question, why do you think I would know something about that?

Yes, it’s very possible that what I say would spin your future off into a different direction. But since what I say is “bogus” that shouldn’t be a problem.

On a philosophical level, the existence of multiple worlds implies a moral balance in the superverse. For every worldline you perform a good action, there is a worldline where you perform a bad action. There are no good and bad people, just good and bad decisions. We can only be responsible for what we do as individuals on the worldline we are on now. So take heart! Somewhere out there is a worldline where I’m spilling all the beans on Hockey, the stock market and Hollywood and you’re all off to Vegas and Wall Street making millions of dollars.

I do very much enjoy these conversations and I’m working on the other questions…

There's no conflict. People are asking serious questions, which you aren't answering for BS reasons.

He keeps saying that 'I don't want you to believe me' mess. Horrible tactic.

Why would we think you would know big things happening in the news? Because you said you've study 20th century history!

These questions are why THEY decided to use the multiple worldline theory for this hoax. Easy to dismiss certain questions. Or if something doesn't happened, they can say they're still right and whatever just didn't happen on this worldline. Rubbish.

After a couple of days of recovering from the beating he was taking and straightening out his story more, he finally starts to answer some questions again:

Posted by John Titor on 02-05-2001 11:28 AM

As far as the war goes, my best advice is to find at least 5 people within 100 miles of you that you trust with your life.

You should have that anyway for whatever situation....


No, I haven’t met any other time travelers here and although from my perspective that’s highly unlikely, it’s not impossible.

How is it unlikely? There are an infinite number of worldlines right? Surely at any given time there are millions appearing everyday


No, I don’t have any additional information concerning crop circles, ETs or UFOs. I find those subjects rather interesting myself and it’s one of the reasons I was drawn to this web site.

No you came here because you knew people here are more likely to believe the hoax....


((Can you give us some brief personal stories of your past? For instance, in relation to history what were some of your growing up sagas?))

I was born in 1998 so I do share some childhood memories with all of you. I remember going to Disney World at Christmas and I remember going to the beach in Daytona.
When the civil “conflict” started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas. Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city.

Hmmm.....seems he has a pretty vivid memory to me.
Why not answer some of those questions (about neutral news events) from earlier then?


From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and national guard. By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the “cities” and the “country” was well defined. My father made a living by putting together 12-volt electrical systems and sailing “commodities” up and down the coast of Florida. I spent most of my time helping him.

Outright open fighting was common by then and I joined a shotgun infantry unit in 2011. I served with the “Fighting Diamondbacks” for about 4 years. (Hearing in my right ear isn’t as good as I would like it). The civil war ended in 2015 when Russia attacked the U.S. cities (our enemy), China and Europe. As unusual and bad as my childhood might seem, I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

1. Reading Titor's posts over again (not just this here), but I realize....Titor never really explains WHY there's a civil war. Civil wars don't just happen. It would take a TON for a civil war to happen. For a country like the U.S. it would take SEVERAL DOZEN TONS of stuff to happen before a civil war could even be THOUGHT about.

2. Talk about horrible parenting. Instead of school his father is esentially letting his elementary school kid play with electricity, lol. Then when this CHILD is 13, they let him join an army. wtf. At no point does Titor say that the people fighting the government are losing or in danger of losing, so letting KIDS fight in a WAR is completely unnecessary, unethical, immoral, etc. Disgusting. The people who let that happen should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity.


Africa is not a pleasant place to be in 2036 although I would characterize it as recovering.

Recovering from what?


The music you enjoy now is quite popular and available it’s just not produced in anywhere near the same amount. There is a revival of “local” and classical music. Many people have learned to play their own. I personally enjoy Big Band, some Classical and interesting lyrical pieces from the 1970s and 1980s.

His obsession with things from the 70s and 80s is something that will have to be discussed as well....


his reply continues....

[edit on 21-6-2007 by ThatsJustWeird]



posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 04:22 PM
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((if time travel is possible, what does that do to the reilgious? If I exist on many time lines, which one is really me? Did God create one "me", or many "me's"))

This is an excellent question that causes a great deal of controversy. Since every possible outcome, event and possibility is happening and will happen, then all good and all evil balances out in the superverse. After the reality of multiple worlds sank into our collective thought, the one basic change to all religious dogma is the concept that good and evil does not exist as an organized force in our lives nor can it be used as a useful way to judge what God may think of a situation. Good and evil are personal experiences that can only guide what we do as individuals and how we relate to others. This outlook also makes it impossible for me to judge any other person or event. We cannot see the entire universe as God sees it therefore we will never be Gods or be capable of judging anything outside of ourselves. My actions can only be judged as good and bad by me and my God.

Very good question.
Titor's answer gives us a little hint at his (the real person/persons') beliefs and perhaps their political views as well.


There is also an area of thought that maintains all of the “yous” out there will make up the “you” that eventually returns to God. In that manner, it is frustrating to know that you are capable of and acting on all of the thoughts and ideas you have regardless of what the “you” here is doing. How good or evil do you think you can be?

What if one "me" dies before the other "mes?"


There is even an idea (supported in physics apparently but I have a hard time with this one) that there is some sort of communication going on between all of the “yous” that are out there. Some people think that memories, intuition and conscious are actually attempts by one version of “you” to talk to another.

No....


Yes, we still have football and you will easily recognize it in 2036.




posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 05:45 PM
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Wow!.. Thatsjustweird.. what a passion committed to case of Titor..
This is, well, weird to say the least. I see a very angry frustrated meteorologist with his teeth clenched.. his fists tight and his eyes rolling madly..drunk with rage... hungry.. gathering all his evidence through the years.. waiting for his moment.. that oh so precious moment.. that evil smirk on his face.. saying to himself "yeah.. I will unmask you Titor, I finally get you now.. I get you, all you time travel hoaxers, your sorry ass is mine.. even if it's the last thing I'll do.. the flush of victory is mine!"


For now, I will wait until you are finished with the "evidence" and your scenario and perhaps we can chit chat after the show as well.. who knows..



posted on Jun, 21 2007 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by Roth Joint
waiting for his moment.. that oh so precious moment.. that evil smirk on his face.. saying to himself "yeah.. I will unmask you Titor, I finally get you now..



Thank you Roth for that, that made my day


i want to address some things youve posted TJW, but i will wait as well till it comes around a guess:/


[edit on 21/6/07 by Glyph_D]



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 03:52 AM
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Wow, I don't have time to read long, long posts, anyway I'm waiting for TJW climax moment..... hmmm that doesn't sound right.

though this caught my eye............


((Potential Hazard of being a Time Traveler --- Always putting things off until you can "get back" to doing them.))

What’s even worse is having the ability to go back and help the “you” there and you won’t listen to yourself



ThatsJustWeird
How do you know what "you" are going to do? Maybe the "you" in that worldline doesn't need any help...


...... if you could converge with yourself, it may be some what deterministic situation, much like an algorithm or state of being of knowing what's next from the both of you lol.... there would be finite number things to listen too until you tell yourself to shut up lol..... however there is another algorithm called backtracking, in which you would cause massive infinite problems and probably more.... you guessed it... world lines lol..... so yes, it could be a "Potential Hazard."


However I think this is more of a verbal issue lol. It's funny though, if you don’t listen to yourself, then who are you going to listen too?



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 10:18 AM
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Roth, that truely was funny


But there's hardly any "passion" or whatnot. Doing this mainly for entertainment purposes!
The plan at first wasn't even to go over Titor's posts, I was only going to show you all stuff on other boards and hopefully get some people to fess up. Went to those other boards because I was curious to see if you guys were the only Titorites left. There are still people claiming to be on the fence but of the hardcore folks, outside of people in on the hoax like Pamela, I would have to say yes it does appear you guys are quickly becoming the last holdouts.
Going over Titor's posts now because it was quite evidence you all haven't read them and/or haven't read them in context. It'll take a while to get through all the posts but I'm really really hoping that you'll open your eyes to reality and come to the conclusion he was a hoax WELL before any "big finish." You SHOULD come to this conclusion early as some of this stuff is just blatantly ridiculous (as we've seen).

Anyway....

***********

Posted by James Boley on 02-05-2001 01:32 PM

Is there any sort of a log in your machine to show where and when you stopped? Will your superiors check that?

Is there crimes against time? Can you get in trouble for altering a time line?

Philisophical question. While in your alleged time travels you meet a man an convince him to go somewhere with you, causing him not to meet his future wife. Because of this a certain child is not born, and denied existance. Are you guilty because of this change? You may have known this unborn child in the future. It may have even been your friend.

And if that child would grow up to stop this civil war in the future, and mankind is better for it (no doubt saving several of your friends and family members), would you feel guilty?

Maybe this is a better question. Does what happen here affect your future?

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Posted by John Titor on 02-05-2001 02:09 PM

Yes, there is a log and my report and debriefing will agree with it. I have no reason to lie about where I am and why I’m here.

There are no crimes against time. However, if I were to go on some sort of a murder spree and I admitted it when I returned, then I would be held responsible for the crime of murder.

I am no more able to affect your worldline than you are. Yes, I could make the changes you suggested but you must remember that there are an infinite number of worldlines out there where I didn’t and I don’t. In fact, there’s even a worldline out there where you’re the time traveler and I’m the one writing the question.

I think the war would be good for you and your society. I don’t want to stop it.

Nothing I do here will affect any other worldline. “My” original worldline will always be the same and yes I can make changes here that would make this worldline different from mine but so can you.

Man.....
Someone should have really hammered him on this multiworldline mess.
I'm 100% sure that was picked to make this hoax a little easier. Good way to not have to answer certain questions. And Glyph he's stating it as fact not theory as you suggested earlier.....

Next are several post which Titor fails to address....

Posted by Chris McWhirt on 02-05-2001 05:56 PM


John,
1) What effect will following technologies have
MEMs(microelectromechanicals)
quantum computers
fuel cells

2) WHich GE group builds time machine?



Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-05-2001 07:48 PM

*snip*
Some Items:
(In spite of Star Trek storylines)

1. There are NO "alternate worldlines" There are ONLY Possibilities and Probabilities. One of the Possibilities MAY occur and, one and ONLY one of the Probabilities WILL occur. There are NO multiple worldlines, histories, or whatever occuring at this or any time. There are no proven, half-proven, or .001% proven data for multiple Earths.
There are only Star Trekein blabberings.

Once an event occurs it NEVER changes( except for What special happenings?- you should know this John!)

2. Hey "John", show me the symbol and formula for the relationship between Gravity and Magnetism. It should be child's play for you and a fundamental part of ANY TT machine. It is Quite simple.


3. I know a certain FACT about time travel, you haven't mentioned it and it is an absolutely VITAL part of TT. Tell me what it is. I'll give you a hint: It has TWO special requirements!


Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-06-2001 06:05 AM
*snip*
AS far as Mr. Titor is concerned ... How do you finance your excursion? I would venture its not totally on the level with current financial accounting procedures.


Titor's next post

Posted by John Titor on 02-06-2001 06:35 AM

[[[ATTENTION! The following is a secret message for all mindless robot slaves controlled by time travelers. If you are unable to read this, please disregard it. This is an emergency, can someone do me a favor and look up everything they can find on Maxwell’s equations, relativity and the formulas for volts and amps. I left all my physics books back in the time machine…and remember, just because I control your mind doesn’t mean I think you’re an idiot. MESSAGE OVER.]]]

wtf?
This post was not edited....
Meaning, Titor wrote this....
Meaning, this whole thing should have ended here....


Yes, there are significant advances in computer science. It's interesting how easy it is to be fixated on the “machine” itself without any curiosity about many of the support systems. This is not really big news but if / then is out and if /then /maybe is in.

Gibberish


Yes I am with the “me” on this worldline and he is three now. I find that fact to be rather hard for people to get along with so I don’t bring it up directly. This is the second time I have “met myself”.

If he killed his other self, would it be considered suicide?


The “machine” is owned by the military. I am part of a unit stationed in Tampa Florida. The real energy is in creating the machine, not operating it. It’s interesting you should bring up the divergence percentage. You may find it…entertainingly interesting to know that the divergence can be more accurate with more sensitive gravity sensors and clocks. The C206 uses 6 Cesium clocks and an active method of timing the changes in the atom.

More gibberish for the uneducated. He never explains how anything works....


Posted by James Boley on 02-06-2001 06:47 AM

Why does your kind time travel?

You mentioned that in the future, or in your future for the sake of the arguement, that you still believe in God. How does God play in these infinite number of 'time lines'. Are there infinite number of Gods? One for each timeline?

How does a persons soul play into this? Are you suggesting there are infinite number of my souls around?

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Posted by John Titor on 02-06-2001 08:33 AM


We time travel to solve problems. A great deal of effort is going into repairing the environment and infrastructure.

I think there is only one God. I also think that our soul may be a combination of all the collective thoughts and actions of the infinite “yous”. If that is true, it becomes very difficult to define death until all worldlines come to an end.

How do you fix the environment by going into the past? Wasn't he just complaining about how he can smell and taste how bad our air is?
Infrastructure? What do you need 20th century infrastructure for? You have radioactive rocks from Russia you should be using!

Last part someone should have persued further....



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 12:07 PM
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His post continues in respons to:


Posted by Charlotte Boren on 02-06-2001 07:11 AM

(1) Who wins the Triple Crown for the next 20 years?

(2) Who will be elected president for the next 20 years?

(3) Will there still be Harley-Davidsons around when you are born?

(4) Please list the price of gold for the last 20 of your years and I can tell you the condition of the stock market in the future.

(5) Will it still be fairly lawful for me to own and use handguns when are beginning your time travel adventures?

(6) Is it possible for you to bump into yourself when you are time travelling? Saw a Jean Claude Van Dam movie about that once. I think it was called "Time Cop". Whatever you do, don't shake hands with yourself, if you do meet. You melt.

(7) I go on vacation in May. Can I go with you the next time you leap? I have an ex-husband I want to punch in the nose when he walks up to the 1981 me the first time we met and says "Hi." I'll get the 1981 me pushed out of the way with a 1981 broom or something. It won't take much to convince the 1981 me that this is the 2001 her. I know her past too well---regrets and happiest moments. (Wonders if Scott Bakula is just as cute today as he was in "Quantum Leap".)

[Edited by Charlotte Boren on 02-06-2001 at 07:23 AM]


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Posted by John Titor on 02-06-2001 08:33 AM

.......

[(1) Who wins the Triple Crown for the next 20 years?]
I don’t know. Even if I did, you could stop the horse(s) anyway and make it untrue.

(2) Who will be elected president for the next 20 years?
Please see number 2.

(3) Will there still be Harley-Davidsons around when you are born?
I was born in 1998.

(4) Please list the price of gold for the last 20 of your years and I can tell you the condition of the stock market in the future.

I don't understand the importance of this type of information. Please tell me your opnion why this is interesting and worth remembering for 30 years.

(5) Will it still be fairly lawful for me to own and use handguns when are beginning your time travel adventures?

I thought owning a handgun was legal in the United States? Yes, being familiar with firearms (along with the other responsibilities of the Constitution) becomes an important part of people’s lives in thirty years.

(6) Is it possible for you to bump into yourself when you are time travelling? Saw a Jean Claude Van Dam movie about that once. I think it was called "Time Cop". Whatever you do, don't shake hands with yourself, if you do meet.

Yes that is possible and there are no limitations on interacting with them. I find it interesting that there is some sort of collective negativity with the idea of doing that. Could it be that we are not really that comfortable with ourselves and therefore we cannot imagine meeting, liking or helping another one of us on another worldline?

(7) I go on vacation in May. Can I go with you on your journys through time? Anybody else want to go along?
I could probably manage three people with me. However, I would have to dump a great deal of archival material to get you in. I’m not sure you would like 2036 very much.

1. But how would it be untrue? This isn't your worldline. Also, winning the triple crown is huge. Certainly a historian would know such a thing.

2. You mean see #1? If that's the case he's claiming he doesn't know. If he's talking about #2 in his rules, that doesn't make sense. No one's avoiding death by probability unless he's saying all the presidents in the next 20 years would be killed....

3. .....

4. *shakes head* It was a simple question. What's the price of gold!? He wasn't asking anything else! Titor knew this. That was probably one question the Titors didn't think would be asked so didn't have an answer....

5. Why? After a 10+ year of civil war, then a nuclear ww3, then more killing after that, people should be sick and tired of guns.

6. No, we just realize that's BS. Using that multiworld crap to get out of the paradoxes....

7. Trying to discourge him and others from asking to go. Pathetic



Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-06-2001 02:33 PM


John, the life you desrribe in 2036, sounds very much like life my grandparents described in the WW2 era. interesting indeed.

What was the reason for Russia's involvement in the civil war? Why did they bomb China and Europe?
Did the U.S counter attack with thier own nucler weapns?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 09:40 AM

Russia and China have always had a very strange relationship. Even the news I see now indicates that continued weapons deals to allies, border clashes and overpopulation will lead to hostilities. The West will become very unstable which gives China the confidence to “expand”. I’m assuming you are all aware that China has millions of male soldiers right now that they know will never be able to find wives. The attack on Europe is in response to a unified European army that masses and moves East from Germany. Also, please be aware that from my viewpoint, Russia attacked my enemy who was in the U.S. cities. Yes, the U.S. did counter attack.

Notice he never gives the reason for Russia's involvement in the war.
Why would a European army move east? East to where? And why would Russia just attack them? Why would Russia attack them with NUKES?? Who said they were moving to go against Russia in the first place?

And he said the west was unstable right? So a bunch of unstable governments who would need their armies for their own countries and their own people somehow manage to put an army together that threatened Russia?


Posted by John Lensk on 02-06-2001 03:25 PM

Dear John,

I am very intrigued by your story, but some things dont make very much sense to me. This IBM 5100 computer you talk of having to go back in time to get is the first thing that does not make sense to me. What does the old 5100 computer do that computers of your time isnt able to do? Im sure the future will have a wide use of emulation technology, inwhich you could easily emulate this old computer and all of its uses. What would the original computer do that an emulated version of it not be able to do?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 09:40 AM

As you are probably aware, UNIX will have a timeout error in 2038 and many of the mainframe systems that ran a large part of the infrastructure were based on very old IBM computer code. The 5100 has the ability to easily translate between the old IBM code, APL, BASIC and (with a few tweaks in 1975) UNIX. This may seem insignificant but the fact that the 5100 is portable means I can easily take it back to 2036. I do expect they will create some sort of emulation system to use in multiple locations.

Ok, the 5100 can translate between old codes.............SO WHAT!?
What does this have to do with anything?
Does he even known with the 2038 problem is???


Posted by Kathleen Sander on 02-07-2001 01:02 AM


Could your parents tell something seemed familiar about you or have you only seen your 3-year old self? I guess you would have to re-meet your parents and be a friend of the family. Any changes in how children are taught? Education still "taught" in a classroom?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by John Titor on 02-08-2001 09:40 AM

.....

When I arrived, I approached my father and was easily able to prove to him who I was.

So...show US that evidence!


I am currently with my parents and the “me” who is three. They are very aware of what I am doing, why I am here and when I will be leaving. It may interest you to know that my father still does not truly believe the machine works even after touching and seeing it. Yes, education is still taught in a classroom but the entire focus and system looks nothing like what you have now. Don’t worry, you won’t miss it.

Never explains further about education. Another missed opportunity by the people on the board....


((I still don't buy your story. There are inconsistancies that are to large to write off…))

I understand your viewpoint and I respect it. However, I am confused by a twist in the way the language is used. Another fellow who posted earlier was a bit upset over what I was saying because he thought I was soon going to ask for money by selling something. Since I don’t have anything to sell I am curious why, “I…don’t buy your story”, is the natural way to say what you did. I am aware that it’s off the cuff to say but wouldn’t it be better to say I don’t believe your story? Why is the other way so common?

Oh please! lol!
30 years is not that far in the future and he's from this time NOW. He should know good and well people say "I don't buy it" or whatever to something they don't believe. What a load!!! He knows good and well he's not talking about money!
Someone definitely should have called him out on that...



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeirdWas it you Glyph that was asking about this earlier? Why he mentions 2008 first. That's why. The question was talking about 2008.

thats my very point he WAS addressing 2008, the comment about 2004 was a kind of "by the way" statement. the last sentence describes how large scale the 2008 events get by 2012, and then being interrupted by the event of 2015 ww3.?? my point still stands strong:/


The missing energy levels is right. The energy required to sustain two black holes that are powerful enough to send objects, including humans, through time does not exist on earth

i believe titor was addressing a different angle when he spoke of missing energy levels. i believe he was refering to the unaccounted levels of energy that are capable of causing errors.


Killing it (racehorse) would make it at least 50% different

i think your overestimating the influence this horse has on the WORLD/UNIVERSE.


First part - talking about our government. A "few small changes?" Please. With the way he's describing everything, there are HUGE changes.

in relation to what this country was supposed to be , those are some very minor changes. huge... yes because the govt we live under now is far of base of what our fore fathers planned.




If it does happen, then your ability to judge your environment is crippled by your acceptance of me as a “knower of all things” and gifted with the ability to tell the future.

What?
No. It'd mean you made an extremely lucky guess. This isn't your worldline remember? And you won't be here so it really wouldn't matter what we think of you.

you know it might sound weird to you TJW, but some people on this planet detest the idea of slavery/blind faith. its a gesture of trust. titor appears to be practicing that philosophy. which also explains his constant repetition of "not to believe".


If I am wrong, then everything I have said that might possibly have made you think about your world in a different way is suddenly discredited.

this applies with the above quote. this is the pit fall of faith; when its shaken it is abandoned, and any positive progress that might have been obtained through that faith begins to rot(because of doubt).


Although this will make me a far less interesting time traveler, these are the rules I personally try to hold to:

this is a decision he came to "after" revealing most of the points you presented.




1. I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge. This means no stock or sports tips.

Wait.....didn't he tell us to invest in hydrogen fuel cells? Yes! Yes he did.

i know the wording gives you your point, but its not like that. hes telling you to invest in a commodity (ie food, water, fallout detectors....)


Please, he just said there's unlimited possibilities and any predictions could be incorrect anyway. There's NO WAY he could have known if a war was to take place on this worldline or not.

he believes a war is eminent because of the current events unfolding before him, this worldline is similar to his(from his perspective).


There's no conflict. People are asking serious questions, which you aren't answering for BS reasons.

yes there is conflict, each one of these people start a stand-off situation with titor.ie. "answer this becuase im fed up with you", "im giving you a chance to prove yourself, why dont you take it? what are you hiding?"


These questions are why THEY decided to use the multiple worldline theory for this hoax. Easy to dismiss certain questions. Or if something doesn't happened, they can say they're still right and whatever just didn't happen on this worldline. Rubbish.

ill admit it is frustrating because this can be used as a scapegoat, however IF reality does work the way titor describes, then tough sh*t. if thats the way it is, he wouldnt be able to change that.




No, I haven’t met any other time travelers here and although from my perspective that’s highly unlikely, it’s not impossible.

How is it unlikely? There are an infinite number of worldlines right? Surely at any given time there are millions appearing everyday

to meet a traveler from his timeline would be very unlikely(if not impossible). the only way another traveler would be at this timeline is if in our future, we use a timemachine to go to this time. what reason would a traveler come here? mission? personal? thats very unlikely, but not impossible.




I was born in 1998 so I do share some childhood memories...

Hmmm.....seems he has a pretty vivid memory to me.

thats not vivid at all, i remember going to disney world, but i wouldnt be able to tell you what shirt i wore:/ and also consider that titor wants nothing to do with news events, because of the possible ramifications(im sure hed know some event are harmless, but why waste time trying to distinguish which is and which is not.


1. Reading Titor's posts over again (not just this here), but I realize....Titor never really explains WHY there's a civil war. Civil wars don't just happen. It would take a TON for a civil war to happen. For a country like the U.S. it would take SEVERAL DOZEN TONS of stuff to happen before a civil war could even be THOUGHT about.

im glad you finally realized:/ and just to ask wouldnt the Y2K bug be a TON? i think it wouldve accelerated the conflict a lot.

just imagine how screwed up today would be if we had the Y2K bug. how many people would allow all this BS from politicians to take place. if the mainframes shutdown how complacent would the masses be?




There is even an idea (supported in physics apparently but I have a hard time with this one) that there is some sort of communication going on between all of the “yous” that are out there. Some people think that memories, intuition and conscious are actually attempts by one version of “you” to talk to another.

No....

actually YES, this is also in the hindu text as a version of reality. have you ever seen the movie "the one". this concept is a means to grapple with the many world philosophy.


I doubt the info on the web just disappears in 30 years. They'll have better and more info than we have now...

it would be gone if internet 2 goes online.




Yes, I have superiors. However, from their perspective, I will only have been gone a split second.

Or you end up in a mall or something. In another thread he states he can't get back to his original timeline.

as long as he does not exceed 60 yrs hes ok. and yes he CAN NOT get back to the exact same timeline, he has to go to a low divergence timeline.




The only real risk I am taking is spending too long outside my main line and risking a probability error (dying, accident, etc.). Based on the physics of gravity displacement, I can’t leave when I ever I want anyway and I do have some leeway into how I conduct my mission.

Someone should have called him out on this and asked him to explain....

i agree someone should have stepped up. what i think he was getting at is gravitational fluctuations in gravity(ie equinoxes?)




Yes, the Pearl Harbor example relates to Y2K. Have you considered that I might already have accidentally screwed up your worldline?

No. According to you that's not possible.....

what? when he state that? he states many time this is very possible and unavoidable(divergence).




What’s even worse is having the ability to go back and help the “you” there and you won’t listen to yourself.

How do you know what "you" are going to do? Maybe the "you" in that worldline doesn't need any help...

ughhh, he knows because its his past self. again you are mistaking dimension travel with time travel. you have got to start think about probabilty as apposed to possibility.




I am no more able to affect your worldline than you are. Yes, I could make the changes you suggested but you must remember that there are an infinite number of worldlines out there where I didn’t and I don’t. In fact, there’s even a worldline out there where you’re the time traveler and I’m the one writing the question.

Man.....
Someone should have really hammered him on this multiworldline mess.
I'm 100% sure that was picked to make this hoax a little easier. Good way to not have to answer certain questions. And Glyph he's stating it as fact not theory as you suggested earlier.....

well i know and so should you, people sling the term "in fact" when its actually not the proper form of speech. but as you stated earlier it is IMPOSSIBLE to varify those claims, it easier to except than to test them.




You may find it…entertainingly interesting to know that the divergence can be more accurate with more sensitive gravity sensors and clocks. The C206 uses 6 Cesium clocks and an active method of timing the changes in the atom.

More gibberish for the uneducated. He never explains how anything works....

hes not a physicist, nor is he an engineer. yeah it sucks, but lower your standards..sheeesh


Also, winning the triple crown is huge. Certainly a historian would know such a thing.

so your telling me youd go to a museum and ask the poeple there for sport statistics? why?

again the gold question, why must a historian know every detail? most historians are specialists and focus on a particular subject, not all subjects.


Notice he never gives the reason for Russia's involvement in the war.
Why would a European army move east? East to where? And why would Russia just attack them? Why would Russia attack them with NUKES?? Who said they were moving to go against Russia in the first place?

maybe the CFE, Russia dont like people pullin conquest sh*t on their front lawn.


Ok, the 5100 can translate between old codes.............SO WHAT!?
What does this have to do with anything?

its the mission:/ why is that hard to understand?


Oh please! lol!
30 years is not that far in the future and he's from this time NOW. He should know good and well people say "I don't buy it" or whatever to something they don't believe. What a load!!! He knows good and well he's not talking about money!
Someone definitely should have called him out on that...

he states he understands its an off the cuff type statement, what he is asking is why use a foolish form of speech when being honest is far more useful.



posted on Jun, 22 2007 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Roth, that truely was funny


But there's hardly any "passion" or whatnot. Doing this mainly for entertainment purposes!
The plan at first wasn't even to go over Titor's posts, I was only going to show you all stuff on other boards and hopefully get some people to fess up. Went to those other boards because I was curious to see if you guys were the only Titorites left. There are still people claiming to be on the fence but of the hardcore folks, outside of people in on the hoax like Pamela, I would have to say yes it does appear you guys are quickly becoming the last holdouts.
Going over Titor's posts now because it was quite evidence you all haven't read them and/or haven't read them in context. It'll take a while to get through all the posts but I'm really really hoping that you'll open your eyes to reality and come to the conclusion he was a hoax WELL before any "big finish." You SHOULD come to this conclusion early as some of this stuff is just blatantly ridiculous (as we've seen).

Anyway....

Okay, TJW.. I agree.. at some point you just need to know when to stop.. and that moment has indeed arrived.. but you've made me a very happy person by appreciating my previous post


Right, I am going to prepare for my last post on this thread as it is clear that this one is going to be closed now soon.. but ofcourse we already knew.. all things must come to an end.. whether good or bad.. depending from which viewpoint you look at it..



posted on Jun, 24 2007 @ 03:18 AM
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My last minor trump card.. I like to stick to my personal code of honor.. XPhiles knows exactly what I am talking about... and so I learned Thatsjustweird has his personal code of honor as well..

Thatsjustweird, thanks for viewing me as an extremely interesting character. I cannot deny that and I must add I live a very free and carefree personal happy life.. perhaps a bit eccentric if you wish. I found the ‘hilarious’ comment out of line and misplaced but I understand why you made the remark from your point of view, taking in account your perception, intent and goal with regards to the Titor story. Very understandable. I know you are an extremely interesting character as well.. and it is exactly that aspect of our characters which makes us very much alike….

Let me first tell you that I am very familiar with that Titor story.. meaning.. I know everything.. every aspect.. every post.. every person.. every word.. every symbol.. every meaning.. every artefact.. yes.. artefact.. actually.. and without bragging (why should we) I am very convinced I know more of it (and around it) than you do..

Furthermore, my eyes are wider open to reality then you may ever realize and I know as no one else the context in which the Titor story was written and the intent behind it.

The problem I have with your approach to the Titor story is that you like to project it as a meaningless not well thought out time travel hoax undertaken by a bunch of school kids. In fact it was far from it. Though depending on which viewpoint it is judged from it indeed has the appearances of a “hoax”.. there were definitely no mistakes.. not even one..

It is funny, I saw a few of your recent comments supposedly proving Titor’s online answers “crap” that I could easily refute, but frankly, I don’t have the energy for that anymore, I have other things to do, the sun is shining outside and as I said, this will be my last post. Just one thing I will answer though:

Titor
“..being familiar with firearms (along with the other responsibilities of the Constitution) becomes an important part of people’s lives in thirty years.”

You said:


“Why? After a 10+ year of civil war, then a nuclear ww3, then more killing after that, people should be sick and tired of guns.

Not if the people came to realization how important the Constitution is to them, how it was robbed from them and how they had to fight to give it authority again. Clearly Titor hints at the second Amendment and how his US Government was undermining, eroding the Constitution. That’s why his comment about the ‘Federal American Empire’ and: “On my worldline, we are no longer afraid of the ‘NWO’. Are you afraid of Nazis?”

So the people would not be sick and tired of owning guns, or other firearms, and being familiar with them. Why should they? For everyone it became an integrated part of their lives, because apparently it was one of the reasons why they were at war. The people would be tired of war, but not with being familiar with firearms as a responsibility of the Constitution. Titor: “There are plenty of nuclear weapons left but if anyone uses them they, will be instantly erased from the planet by everyone else, regardless of the politics. We are very tired of war.”

Okay, that was that. The following issue.. the Art Bell faxes.. yes.. were they a mistake?.. Or were they part of the “hoax” in a different setting? Let us read the last part of the first fax (transcribed from audio by Pamela Moore and I can assure you she is a very real person!) one more time again:



“Now for that future you might want to know about. Y2K is a disaster. Many people die on the highways when they freeze to death trying to get to warmer weather. The government tries to keep power by instituting Martial Law, but all of it collapses when their efforts to bring the power back up fail. A few years later ‘Communal Government System’ is developed after the Constitution takes a few twists. China retakes Taiwan. Israel wins the largest battle for its life and Russia is covered in nuclear snow from their collapsed reactors.”

Right. Now let’s read what Pamela Moore once said on the “paranormalnetwork” website that doesn’t exist anymore:



((www.paranormalnetwork.net...))
“I was surprised that even in the book "John's mother" stated that John had not been quite truthful about some things.One of those things were that John said our worldlines were almost the same.

I actually do not know what John was trying to do anymore.
I am just confused.

I just remember he kept telling me to trust him that he knew what he was doing.”

Nobody has ever picked up on this fact… that the faxes might just be deliberately sent with the wrong information, in the style they were sent. Now, taken together with the online messages, that would make it a perfect “hoax” with no mistakes.. On the other hand, playing the Devil’s Advocate again here, if Titor would be an authentic Time Traveller, these faxes containing wrong information would deliberately and totally destroy ALL credibility of an authentic Time Traveller.. therefore eliminating the risk of being perceived as a threat to national security.. And you and I know TJW, that definitely would have been the case.

On the subject of Titor.. you as TJW, clearly read a hoax.. and will ridicule every aspect of it whatever strengthens you in your viewpoint. And as you have shown, you will take it to the extreme to do so. Therefore, I don’t believe it’s merely entertainment for you. You have your personal reasons for that, which I will respect.

On the other hand, when I read Titor, as Roth Joint, I observe the message and it’s context within it was so clearly and cleverly projected.... and believe me .. within that “hoax” is a very powerful message..

Think about this. Could “Titor’s world” still happen to us? It might be. And when it does.. does that prove he was a real time traveller? Ofcourse not. Nothing could ever prove if he was the real thing or not. Absolutely nothing. No way from our present scientific viewpoint.. no way.. what are you thinking?

That was the message. That was the intent of the story. The message provoking you to “attempt to look outside of your programmed box”.. to “attempt to look beyond your boundaries”.. because if you don’t.. you might thoroughly regret it later.. for the rest of your life.. and I am pretty sure many others have gotten that message as well.. people in all layers of socialization.. and sometimes people just need a little help from outside you know.. I know.. it’s a fact that people love stories.. they always will.. and that’s how they can form their perception..

What could be a better story then a Time Travel story? Time Travel sells! Ofcourse it does. It always does. And within that framework you may say I perceive the Titor story as the greatest Urban Legend ever created on the Internet. But there’s a very solid reason why it is still discussed, even absent a second American civil war today.. and we are most definitely not the only or the last ones out there.. and that reason has everything to do with the world we are living in today.

Do I buy into the Titor story “hook line and sinker?” No.

Am I intrigued by the beauty of the Titor story? O yes, undoubtedly!

I am truly enjoying what I call the “math of Titor”.. the “extreme ability to project and sustain viewpoints”.. you may call it entertainment from your viewpoint.. I call it edutainment from my viewpoint.. it surely provoked me to dramatically increase my view outside of that programmed box! And I’ll explain that later…

----------------

For a fact I know the world we are living in has already permanently changed on ALL levels.. ALL sexes.. ALL ages... We are alienating from ourselves in dramatic speed. The game has become more important then its players. But this has little to do with Titor. This fact was already known to the ones that were willing to see through the illusion..

If you believe we live in a world build on equalness and justice.. better wake up to reality.. We live in a world that is build on the lie and manslaughter. This is ironically the only way this world.. this “system” could survive.. yes it’s nothing new perhaps.. but now it’s been taken to another level and WILL be taken to yet another level soon.. if you care to take a closer look at worlds politics and how it has changed since 2001.. it will awaken you.. .here’s a good article:



www.digitalnpq.org...
Both history and practices of "the myth of empires" have demonstrated that the preemptive strategy will bring the Bush administration an outcome that it is most unwilling to see, that is, absolute insecurity of the "American Empire" and its demise because of expansion it cannot cope with.

Just as Harvard University Professor Joseph S. Nye said, the paradox of the US force theory is that the world's politics have already changed, and even for the world's most powerful country, it is impossible to realize its key goals merely through its own military strength, as was the case with the ancient Roman Empire.

Is America going to win the war in Iraq? Let me give you a little prediction.. it will not happen. Oh yeah, a dictator has been ousted.. there’s a new “government” now.. right.. the truth is.. there’s an undeclared civil war in Iraq.. and it will not end soon..

----------------

I don’t think the Everett-Wheeler-Graham Many Worlds Quantum Theory is entire BS. It is also commonly accepted by too many physical scientists. I don’t think a “multiple universe theory” or “multiverse theory” as an outcome of “M-theory” (the 11-dimensional extension of string theory) has to be entire BS. Neither does it rule out the existence of God (we still need the first conscious observer). I don’t think that hypothetical “time travellers” will make a mess of these multiple universes or worlds. This putative paradox simply will be resolved by nature itself. Therefore I believe there are boundaries, i.e. no infinite choices and decisions. Research “Genetics” and you will find that there are gene exchange barriers and barriers for gene flow, i.e. no mess.

Nature, the Universe, apparently has its own way of maintaining, sustaining its balance. I believe we are only ready to take that next quantum step in the process of our evolution if we mastered the art of thinking outside of our present “box.” Fortunately many more good scientists are mastering that art. And in that game there are no winners or losers.. merely choices and decisions..

So, is the “Titor Project” merely the unorganized imaginary figment of a bunch of school kids.. or has this project succeeded in its mission? Yes, I believe it does..

----------------

Finally, let me tell you what the Titor story has done for me personally…. When I first came in contact with the Titor story around 2004.. there was one particular Titor comment that affected me deeply.. and as I am typing this.. tears are coming again.. it was this comment: “I know exactly where I was and every detail of the exact moment the first nuclear warheads began falling on Jacksonville. I know the pain and regret of not acting soon enough to enjoy a relationship as a loved one dies of brain cancer from a war that gained nothing.

It was this comment that hit me to the core. Up till this day I am not able to explain exactly why it did that to me.. but within 2 years I was to find out why..

You have to know that I was married to my work in 2004 (as usual) being very good and attached to it and enjoying myself perfectly as well. Next to it the other social obligations all connected to my work.. sounds familiar eh?.. no time for anything but work.. my life in a nutshell..

It was after reading that specific Titor comment I suddenly realized I needed to rearrange my life drastically and spend more time with my close family.. and I actually decided to do so..

I am so thankful I have had the opportunity to experience life in its true meaning.. the true purpose of life.. what life is all about.. sharing love and consciousness.. sharing your inner thoughts and feelings with the ones you love and respect.. especially the ones we take for granted..

My mother was in a perfectly healthy state of being in 2004 and 2005.

I am so grateful for these less then 2 years we have opened up to one another, laughed together, cried together, started to really know each other’s fears and strengths, wishes and dreams, but most grateful I am for getting to know her as a true friend with an incredible personality and wisdom. We shared so many things together that we didn’t know of before.. we shared the enjoyment of discovering the things that matter in this life.. the beauty of our existence in a world.. an atmosphere we both understood.. as if we both knew that time at hand would be very short.. little did we know how short..

The only one who truly loves you and who I love so deeply.. my mother.. died of cancer at the end of 2006.

Many bizarre, incomprehensible events happened in my life within a ridiculous timeframe.. And as of now, I am still living in that twilight zone of grief.. but life goes on.. with its many cycles..

Sharing messages on ATS, this thread, has helped me tremendously.. I love this place.. we all do.. and behind every participation.. there’s a very solid reason to do so (otherwise one wouldn’t be posting).. sometimes we forget there are real individuals behind the individual posts..

So there it is ThatsJustWeird.. Roth Joint is sharing his experience with you now.. the person behind his messages is a real one.. with real emotions.. real thoughts and real feelings.. for all to read.. perhaps now in an entire different perspective..

So if you ask me if I think the Titor story was a hoax? I would have to say, yes it indeed has all the characteristics to appear to be a “hoax”.. albeit.. a well prepared, very well thought out one.. one with a strong intent to give a very meaningful message to everyone..

TJW, you may not believe it, but I truly enjoyed our conversations. In fact, some of them triggered new creative ideas and I always looked forward reading your next post. I can only hope some of my contributions were of more or lesser value to you too.

I also loved the participation from all other ATS members on this thread who joined in on the Titor discussion and ofcourse.. especially the ones in the pro Titor camp! You all have given a great contribution to this thread and the enter- and edutainment value was truly priceless!


That’s all folks.

Moving on to the quest for a different “worldline”.. that is.. in 2007.. and not too far from where I live
..and last but not least, to finish in Titor style:

How much time do you think you will have to let go of your old accepted realities or illusions when they no longer serve you? Where your motivation is, there will be your energy.

”What amazes me is why no one here wonders why Y2K didn't hit them at all?”
”Bring a gas can with you when the car dies on the side of the road.”

Farewell.

Roth



posted on Jun, 24 2007 @ 05:20 PM
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its sad to see you go Roth, i enjoyed your heavy ended points very much


i dont know how you feel about people speaking of your loss, but i want you to know that i see your "attachment" much clearer given your situation.

you are absolutely right about the purpose of earth based life. its our souls that need interaction, and friends and "families" are the highest quality of those interactions.

Later



posted on Jun, 24 2007 @ 05:27 PM
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as for you TJW im going to address your commentary of the transcripts. if this has many typing errors in it i apologize, im wrighting this in notepad and im going to drop it directly(no editing for me
).


Originally posted by ThatsJustWeirdWas it you Glyph that was asking about this earlier? Why he mentions 2008 first. That's why. The question was talking about 2008.

thats my very point he WAS addressing 2008, the comment about 2004 was a kind of "by the way" statement. the last sentence describes how large scale the 2008 events get by 2012, and then being interrupted by the event of 2015 ww3.?? my point still stands strong:/


The missing energy levels is right. The energy required to sustain two black holes that are powerful enough to send objects, including humans, through time does not exist on earth

i believe titor was addressing a different angle when he spoke of missing energy levels. i believe he was refering to the unaccounted levels of energy that are capable of causing errors.


Killing it (racehorse) would make it at least 50% different

i think your overestimating the influence this horse has on the WORLD/UNIVERSE.


First part - talking about our government. A "few small changes?" Please. With the way he's describing everything, there are HUGE changes.

in relation to what this country was supposed to be , those are some very minor changes. huge... yes because the govt we live under now is far of base of what our fore fathers planned.




If it does happen, then your ability to judge your environment is crippled by your acceptance of me as a “knower of all things” and gifted with the ability to tell the future.

What?
No. It'd mean you made an extremely lucky guess. This isn't your worldline remember? And you won't be here so it really wouldn't matter what we think of you.

you know it might sound weird to you TJW, but some people on this planet detest the idea of slavery/blind faith. its a gesture of trust. titor appears to be practicing that philosophy. which also explains his constant repetition of "not to believe".


If I am wrong, then everything I have said that might possibly have made you think about your world in a different way is suddenly discredited.

this applies with the above quote. this is the pit fall of faith; when its shaken it is abandoned, and any positive progress that might have been obtained through that faith begins to rot(because of doubt).


Although this will make me a far less interesting time traveler, these are the rules I personally try to hold to:

this is a decision he came to "after" revealing most of the points you presented.




1. I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge. This means no stock or sports tips.

Wait.....didn't he tell us to invest in hydrogen fuel cells? Yes! Yes he did.

i know the wording gives you your point, but its not like that. hes telling you to invest in a commodity (ie food, water, fallout detectors....)


Please, he just said there's unlimited possibilities and any predictions could be incorrect anyway. There's NO WAY he could have known if a war was to take place on this worldline or not.

he believes a war is eminent because of the current events unfolding before him, this worldline is similar to his(from his perspective).


There's no conflict. People are asking serious questions, which you aren't answering for BS reasons.

yes there is conflict, each one of these people start a stand-off situation with titor.ie. "answer this becuase im fed up with you", "im giving you a chance to prove yourself, why dont you take it? what are you hiding?"


These questions are why THEY decided to use the multiple worldline theory for this hoax. Easy to dismiss certain questions. Or if something doesn't happened, they can say they're still right and whatever just didn't happen on this worldline. Rubbish.

ill admit it is frustrating because this can be used as a scapegoat, however IF reality does work the way titor describes, then tough sh*t. if thats the way it is, he wouldnt be able to change that.




No, I haven’t met any other time travelers here and although from my perspective that’s highly unlikely, it’s not impossible.

How is it unlikely? There are an infinite number of worldlines right? Surely at any given time there are millions appearing everyday

to meet a traveler from his timeline would be very unlikely(if not impossible). the only way another traveler would be at this timeline is if in our future, we use a timemachine to go to this time. what reason would a traveler come here? mission? personal? thats very unlikely, but not impossible.




I was born in 1998 so I do share some childhood memories...

Hmmm.....seems he has a pretty vivid memory to me.

thats not vivid at all, i remember going to disney world, but i wouldnt be able to tell you what shirt i wore:/ and also consider that titor wants nothing to do with news events, because of the possible ramifications(im sure hed know some event are harmless, but why waste time trying to distinguish which is and which is not.


1. Reading Titor's posts over again (not just this here), but I realize....Titor never really explains WHY there's a civil war. Civil wars don't just happen. It would take a TON for a civil war to happen. For a country like the U.S. it would take SEVERAL DOZEN TONS of stuff to happen before a civil war could even be THOUGHT about.

im glad you finally realized:/ and just to ask wouldnt the Y2K bug be a TON? i think it wouldve accelerated the conflict a lot.

just imagine how screwed up today would be if we had the Y2K bug. how many people would allow all this BS from politicians to take place. if the mainframes shutdown how complacent would the masses be?




There is even an idea (supported in physics apparently but I have a hard time with this one) that there is some sort of communication going on between all of the “yous” that are out there. Some people think that memories, intuition and conscious are actually attempts by one version of “you” to talk to another.

No....

actually YES, this is also in the hindu text as a version of reality. have you ever seen the movie "the one". this concept is a means to grapple with the many world philosophy.


I doubt the info on the web just disappears in 30 years. They'll have better and more info than we have now...

it would be gone if internet 2 goes online.




Yes, I have superiors. However, from their perspective, I will only have been gone a split second.

Or you end up in a mall or something. In another thread he states he can't get back to his original timeline.

as long as he does not exceed 60 yrs hes ok. and yes he CAN NOT get back to the exact same timeline, he has to go to a low divergence timeline.




The only real risk I am taking is spending too long outside my main line and risking a probability error (dying, accident, etc.). Based on the physics of gravity displacement, I can’t leave when I ever I want anyway and I do have some leeway into how I conduct my mission.

Someone should have called him out on this and asked him to explain....

i agree someone should have stepped up. what i think he was getting at is gravitational fluctuations in gravity(ie equinoxes?)




Yes, the Pearl Harbor example relates to Y2K. Have you considered that I might already have accidentally screwed up your worldline?

No. According to you that's not possible.....

what? when he state that? he states many time this is very possible and unavoidable(divergence).




What’s even worse is having the ability to go back and help the “you” there and you won’t listen to yourself.

How do you know what "you" are going to do? Maybe the "you" in that worldline doesn't need any help...

ughhh, he knows because its his past self. again you are mistaking dimension travel with time travel. you have got to start think about probabilty as apposed to possibility.




I am no more able to affect your worldline than you are. Yes, I could make the changes you suggested but you must remember that there are an infinite number of worldlines out there where I didn’t and I don’t. In fact, there’s even a worldline out there where you’re the time traveler and I’m the one writing the question.

Man.....
Someone should have really hammered him on this multiworldline mess.
I'm 100% sure that was picked to make this hoax a little easier. Good way to not have to answer certain questions. And Glyph he's stating it as fact not theory as you suggested earlier.....

well i know and so should you, people sling the term "in fact" when its actually not applicable. as you stated earlier it is IMPOSSIBLE to varify those claims, its easier to except them, than to test them.




You may find it…entertainingly interesting to know that the divergence can be more accurate with more sensitive gravity sensors and clocks. The C206 uses 6 Cesium clocks and an active method of timing the changes in the atom.

More gibberish for the uneducated. He never explains how anything works....

it makes semse to me more guages means better/accurate readings. my guess on how it works, is the clocks measure the the changes in the atoms and then (maybe) compares them with sourounding atoms, and gets a "difference" reading.


Also, winning the triple crown is huge. Certainly a historian would know such a thing.

so your telling me youd go to a museum and ask the poeple there for sport statistics? why?

again the gold question, why must a historian know every detail? most historians are specialists and focus on a particular subject, not all subjects.


Notice he never gives the reason for Russia's involvement in the war.
Why would a European army move east? East to where? And why would Russia just attack them? Why would Russia attack them with NUKES?? Who said they were moving to go against Russia in the first place?

maybe the CFE, Russia dont like people pullin conquest sh*t on their front lawn.


And he said the west was unstable right? So a bunch of unstable governments who would need their armies for their own countries and their own people somehow manage to put an army together that threatened Russia?

you do know that war is the sure fire way to revamp an economy/society.... right?


Ok, the 5100 can translate between old codes.............SO WHAT!?
What does this have to do with anything?

its the mission:/ why is that hard to understand?


Oh please! lol!
30 years is not that far in the future and he's from this time NOW. He should know good and well people say "I don't buy it" or whatever to something they don't believe. What a load!!! He knows good and well he's not talking about money!
Someone definitely should have called him out on that...

he states he understands its an off the cuff type statement, what he is asking is why use a foolish form of speech when being honest is far more useful.



posted on Jun, 25 2007 @ 10:25 AM
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Excellent post Roth.


Only going to go over a couple of things to mainly clerify my position on a couple of things.

The problem I have with your approach to the Titor story is that you like to project it as a meaningless not well thought out time travel hoax undertaken by a bunch of school kids. In fact it was far from it. Though depending on which viewpoint it is judged from it indeed has the appearances of a “hoax”.. there were definitely no mistakes.. not even one..

While there are indeed some mistakes, you are right. This was very well thought out and planned. My apologizes for giving any other impression. These people were well up to date on current affairs, and very well educated, especially in the area of physics. They used this education to their advantage to come up with one of the best hoaxes in internet history. Much kudos to them as that was not an easy task.

*
My comment about the guns was based on the fact that they have been at war and killing for nearly two decades and half the population of the world has been wiped out. You better believe war fatigue would set in heavy.

*
As far as what I think the Titor and the Titor message is, I'd like to quote me

Page 29 (though I'm positive I've stated this or something similar - and probably better - on other pages as well)

Actually, it's not even a matter of Titor being "wrong". Titor is and has always been a fictional character in a fictional story. Stop taking what he said as fact. It's not. Period.
It's a fictional story showing how complacent the author percieves America has become and what could happen if we allow the gov to get away with everything, it's not a prediction of what will happen. So yeah, take it to heart so we can make sure it doesn't happen, but please please stop thinking this fact and will happen because chances are extremely high that none of that stuff he mentions happens.


*

I don’t think the Everett-Wheeler-Graham Many Worlds Quantum Theory is entire BS. It is also commonly accepted by too many physical scientists.

This is something we'll always disagree on then I guess


*
Thank you for sharing your personal experiences Roth, I'm truly sorry for your loss. My thoughts and prayers will be with you....I know that's a hard thing.
I'm glad this thread and Titor's message was able to help you and yes...

TJW, you may not believe it, but I truly enjoyed our conversations. In fact, some of them triggered new creative ideas and I always looked forward reading your next post. I can only hope some of my contributions were of more or lesser value to you too.

...I really enjoyed our conversations as well, believe it or not


You'll be missed Roth.
Stay strong my friend and Godspeed in where ever you go and whatever you do next!



posted on Jun, 25 2007 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
This was very well thought out and planned. My apologizes for giving any other impression. These people were well up to date on current affairs, and very well educated, especially in the area of physics. They used this education to their advantage to come up with one of the best hoaxes in internet history. Much kudos to them as that was not an easy task.


ok heres me biggest beef with most of the ill-concepts on this desolate earth. why would you opt to believe the greatest minds around came together and created this untouchable story, as apposed to the simplest answer hes "legit"?

ive walked this earth for a short-while(some of it alone, some of it with company), one thing ive noticed is great minds do "not" come together. the defining characteristic of a great mind is their relentless desire to isolate them selves from the weak/small minded(fools cause great confusion). for you to "force" a scenario of great thinkers coming together for a hoax, goes against nearly everything i know about human nature.

is the feat of creating a hoax like this possible? sure it is, however its got to be a think tank of "mensa" proportions; and even then its gonna be a big effort. no rag tag team from school is gonna pull this off.

you know there is a saying "dont overestimate your opponent", to me the above is a classic case. titor has no special abilities. he puts his pants on one leg at a time, like the rest of us.


now with the above stated ill say im not 100% convinced about titor, but your solution seems naive to me. that doesnt make it wrong, but the odds are against you. personally i have no problem(logically or spiritually) with accepting timetravel, if its real-its real so what. if it is real then at some point a TT would come forward, why cant this be that moment? as titor has stated (i dont think this, just because titor stated it) when a TT would come forward how many people would believe even if he had good evidence?

it is ironic that of all the places titor has been called a fraud, a time travelers forum was one of them:/ with zero proof to boot. o well

DOUBT rules the world now, and faith is dieing. mean while honesty and truth are over looked:/



My comment about the guns was based on the fact that they have been at war and killing for nearly two decades and half the population of the world has been wiped out. You better believe war fatigue would set in heavy.

thats why they use children
, but seriously when a war is about freedom and survival, fatigue is generally ignored. look at the middle east, theve been at it for 2000 years:/ and still going strong.



[edit on 25/6/07 by Glyph_D]



posted on Jun, 25 2007 @ 06:23 PM
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I've been following this thread for an obscene amount of time. (I'm in the Titor camp i guess...or mabye the NWO psy-ops camp
) This debate has gotten heated at times but has managed to stay civil. (no pun intended) Kudos to all for no swinging of clubs and grunting. Props to Roth and TJW, you guys are good quality people. Great run Roth, journey well.

I'll leave with this: What if Titor is legit? What if Titor had figured on the internet being able to create enough awareness here to avoid the same fate as his world-line? What if this very thread is what causes enough world-line divergence to avert civil and global war? We would never know it and continue jabbering ad infinitum! You guys would be unknown legends! That's pretty damn funny IMO



[edit on 25-6-2007 by Orwells Ghost]



posted on Jun, 26 2007 @ 11:22 AM
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Glyph glyph glyph..............
oh well............


Originally posted by Glyph_D
why would you opt to believe the greatest minds around came together and created this untouchable story, as apposed to the simplest answer hes "legit"?

No where did I say these were the greatest minds on earth. Untouchable? Please. lol
I simply said they were well educated. As Dr. Brown has shown us, these were likely the students and not the teachers.


is the feat of creating a hoax like this possible? sure it is, however its got to be a think tank of "mensa" proportions; and even then its gonna be a big effort. no rag tag team from school is gonna pull this off.

What are you talking about??
The Titor team did absolutely nothing difficult. As we've seen so far (and it's just going to get better or worse from whatever your viewpoint) the Titor story is FAR FAR FAR from flawless. Huge holes in the story. Yes it is very possible for a bunch of college kids to pull this off. In fact, that's extremely likely what happened.


as titor has stated (i dont think this, just because titor stated it) when a TT would come forward how many people would believe even if he had good evidence?

A lot of people.
If people believe Titor with no evidence at all then of course people would believe if someone presented evidence


it is ironic that of all the places titor has been called a fraud, a time travelers forum was one of them:/ with zero proof to boot. o well

You obviously haven't visted these forums....


thats my very point he WAS addressing 2008, the comment about 2004 was a kind of "by the way" statement. the last sentence describes how large scale the 2008 events get by 2012, and then being interrupted by the event of 2015 ww3.?? my point still stands strong:/

You're joking?
Read it again. Only the first sentence had anything to do with 2008. The rest of the post had absolutely nothing to do with 2008. He answered the 2008 question and that was it. Period. He then went on to describe the wars (as he had not done so yet). This is very simple. A little child could understand this.


in relation to what this country was supposed to be , those are some very minor changes. huge... yes because the govt we live under now is far of base of what our fore fathers planned.

You need to do some serious brushing up on history.....


i know the wording gives you your point, but its not like that. hes telling you to invest in a commodity

lol
You know good and well the average human being has no idea how to build/harness the power of/do whatever to hydrogen fuel cells. The average human doesn't even know what one is. They are far from a commodity and completely useless without the proper equipment, etc.


im glad you finally realized:/ and just to ask wouldnt the Y2K bug be a TON? i think it wouldve accelerated the conflict a lot.

just imagine how screwed up today would be if we had the Y2K bug.

The Y2K bug was completely overhyped and blown way out of proportion. No conflict wouldn't have accelerated had it occured...because conflict wouldn't have started. And newsflash, nothing happened! No trigger for a civil war that would take TONS of triggers.


it would be gone if internet 2 goes online

*sigh* Still haven't done any research I see.....


what? when he state that? he states many time this is very possible and unavoidable(divergence).

He can't screw up our timeline because he's not from it. He has no idea what's going to happen on this timeline so whatever he does would irrelevant as he has no idea if that was supposed to happen or not.


ughhh, he knows because its his past self. again you are mistaking dimension travel with time travel. you have got to start think about probabilty as apposed to possibility.

What? I'm going by what Titor states.
If he goes back, anywhere he goes, that's not his worldline so it's NOT his past self from the life he just lived. It's his self in a different worldline period or different because he went there. Either way, it's not the same. According to Titor.


you do know that war is the sure fire way to revamp an economy/society.... right?

This has nothing to do with what I said, but it's still horribly wrong. Otherwise Africa and the Middle East would be utopias.


its the mission:/ why is that hard to understand?

No, it's a bunch of nonsense. The 5100 being able to translate codes has nothing to do with the Y2k38 problem.

The rest of your post, people can correct for themselves as the mistakes are obvious and/or it's just your opinion and has little to do with what Titor states.



posted on Jun, 26 2007 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Glyph glyph glyph..............
oh well............






The Titor team did absolutely nothing difficult. As we've seen so far (and it's just going to get better or worse from whatever your viewpoint) the Titor story is FAR FAR FAR from flawless. Huge holes in the story. Yes it is very possible for a bunch of college kids to pull this off. In fact, that's extremely likely what happened.

what have you seen? and where are these holes? im not going to rule out the possibility of school yard shenanigans, but plz you stated this your self it was created by some very educated people. the caliber of knowledge you suggest is on par with predicting the stock market.




You're joking?
Read it again. Only the first sentence had anything to do with 2008. The rest of the post had absolutely nothing to do with 2008. He answered the 2008 question and that was it. Period. He then went on to describe the wars (as he had not done so yet). This is very simple. A little child could understand this.

look its obvious your never gonna consider what im saying, but ill state this as my last attempt on this quote. a paragraph is a grouping of sentences that deal with a single thought or topic, that thought/topic was/is 2008.



lol
You know good and well the average human being has no idea how to build/harness the power of/do whatever to hydrogen fuel cells. The average human doesn't even know what one is. They are far from a commodity and completely useless without the proper equipment, etc.

this is true, however the number one rule when making an investment is to learn about that investment. this is no different than titor stating one should learn to use and clean firearms, or to learn to purify water.



The Y2K bug was completely overhyped and blown way out of proportion.

unfortunately that we will never know, becuase it didnt happen.



He can't screw up our timeline because he's not from it. He has no idea what's going to happen on this timeline so whatever he does would irrelevant as he has no idea if that was supposed to happen or not.

you need to brush up on what titor is telling you becuase you have failed to see. IF titor is on a worldline he can effect that worldline just as you can effect that worldline. as long as he stays on a low divergence he "will" know whats around the corner.
*regardless if he knows the future or not he can make changes anywhere he sees fit(free will).



ughhh, he knows because its his past self. again you are mistaking dimension travel with time travel. you have got to start think about probabilty as apposed to possibility.

What? I'm going by what Titor states.
If he goes back, anywhere he goes, that's not his worldline so it's NOT his past self from the life he just lived. It's his self in a different worldline period or different because he went there. Either way, it's not the same. According to Titor.

again your not getting it. timetravel is done in increments(one minor step to another) the longer you go the greater the divergence. in-so-facto the shorter you go the smaller the divergence.

yes the second titor wont be the "him", because no two object can occupy the same space at the same time and the knowledge of the future altered the one titor away from the other. but the history of those two titors is one in the same. there birthdays are on the same day, their first girl friend is the same, as long as divergence is low their life is identical.

you really need to learn about the degrees of divergence. just because you have divergence present doesnt mean the world is completely different. it just means "somewhere" "something" is different, it could be something as small as an ant in brazil dropping a leaf and having to pick it back up, where in timeline A he never dropped it. that incident alone would qualify as divergence.

how many ants would it take for the past titor to be missing, when the future titor goes looking for him?10?-20?-100000000000?? im not sure, but if its a high number you need only keep a low divergence to avoid the change.




you do know that war is the sure fire way to revamp an economy/society.... right?

This has nothing to do with what I said, but it's still horribly wrong. Otherwise Africa and the Middle East would be utopias.

you say im wrong but it is you who is wrong. every war that takes place in Africa, the ME, or globally does change the society that is involved. i never said war makes a better world i said war "reforms". lets look at the insurgents in the middle east for a moment, they been fighting for so long its madness. nearly ever month a new martyr or social hero steps forward, adding a little somthing new to the fray and rejuvenating the desires of old and some new ones as well(reform).

but back to what we were discussing Russia and the US are major war countries they dont need martyrs or heroes, becuase they can siphon profits from all four corners of the globe by force and through political manipulation.
they have reached a level where it is more effective to gain the ability(money) to reform their opponent than to rather reform oneself.



No, it's a bunch of nonsense. The 5100 being able to translate codes has nothing to do with the Y2k38 problem.

why??? do you have proof?? could you provide it to all of us? clearly your not the kind of person who would say something just to stretch a convoluted agenda... right????



[edit on 26/6/07 by Glyph_D]



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