The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Yeah, you are the expert of denial, but even you cannot deny this anymore.

Deny what?

Let me see... denying the news that Russia is going to aim its missiles on Europe....

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Russia is indeed strengthening its muscles and its NOT looking good.

Not looking good for who???????
Russia's problems with Chechneya has shown us alot. Them flexing any "muscle" they THINK they have to Europe or anyone else is a JOKE. I suggest you do some real research into Russia and why they're doing what they're doing.

Riiiiight. So Russia is a joke to you eh? And Russia will NOT aim its missiles on Europe if the US continues its foreign policy right?.... lol.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Yes, Titor's world is coming into our reality.. rapidly.. whether we like it or not..

lol
1. According to Titor, that's not possible.
2. What are you basing this on?

Russia will destroy the major cities in the US and Europe and China remember? Ofcourse... according to Titor that is.... Oh yeah.... the US retaliates according to Titor as well...lol. You must be utterly blind to keep on denying Russia flexing its muscles.....

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

there are not infinite choices of timelines, there are infinite possibles of timelines.

What? That's the same thing...
If the multiple timeline theory is correct (likely not) then yes there would be an infinite amount of possibilities which means there are the same number of choices.

from my perspective just because you have infinite possibilities does not mean you have infinite "choices". choices are a precursor to an/of event, the range of these choices are limited by the perception/awareness of the participant and vastness of the situation..

an example> when one throws dice one has (generally) 6 possibilities of an outcome. how ever when trying to define the amount of choices you are allotted you have about 2(to throw or not to throw).

Once you go back. ALL possibilities exsist. Trying to go back to a timeline that's .00000....0001% different from yours is like trying to find a neddle in a haystack in the midst of a few trillion haystacks

Which is what I'm saying. Just you bringing a time machine into the past, that alone would create a large enough divergence that trying to get back to yours is impossible.

hmm... you are not stabilizing your perception here.

if a traveler "chooses" to traverse time he has chosen to leave the time he dwells in. it is impossible to ever return to your timeline, once you leave you are forever exiled from that timeline.(needed to be said)

when you intersect a timeline with a distortion device this distortion create a divergence(as you stated). every sub-sequential action there after creates more divergence. this divergence is achieved through gradual escalation, starting at .00..001 and moving toward 99.99..99. these changes are linear and can/should be seen as a "cascading effect"(or domino effect) one event leading to another. from this point you can regulate the divergence by maintaining a low profile.

NOTE:however should you prefer "chaos theory" you would have a non-linear system taking place, where random(intensity) jumps of order can be throw into disorder by minor yet significant events. this form of thought is very circumstantial and not easy to express through digression.:/


heres an outline>

1titor went to 1975, from there he went to 2000.

2when he was in 1975 he altered this timelineB(from his perspective) he assisted his grandfather with the y2k bug.

3he then came to 2000 to see if his grandfather was successful, even further effecting divergence of timelineB: undoubtedly to see if he could thwart the future, and prevent his love from dieing(titor may have felt that the y2k bug was very crucial in the development of the disorder of his timeline). he noticed that even though the y2k bug was fixed, problems were still showing them selves(which lead him to concluded that it(war/death) may not be able to be avoided).

4at which point he decided to alert those who would listen from 2000-2001(an increase of divergence)

5if titor was to go back to the future from this timelineB he would encounter a different setting. surely the war would have still taken place but the elements that he had left behind might now be lost forever(becuase of his meddling). his divergence would probably be in the high 30's low 40's.

6in order for titor to reach a similar timelineA he must create a timelineC. he would achieve this by going back to 1975 moments before his first arrival.

7in timelineC titor would avoid contact with his grandfather, and any other high profile situations. its a new timeline and titor would not meet his former self, becuase there would be no additional titor to meet. timelineC is now fresh, it has very little divergence. and the sooner he jumps back to the future the less divergence can take place.

8when he reaches his time 2036, the only difference between timelineA and timelineC is an intersection that took place in 1975. most certainly the divergence would be below 1%.

the reason i went through all that was to illustrate, that it is not difficult to manage divergence.

No, that's why policing would be NEEDED. That's why you would need an army to try and keep the machines under wraps. Do you know what people would do for the ability to do whatever they want with no consequences??

well im sure timetravel is a long ways away from being in the private sector. titor himself said it was a military installation that handled travels. but i really dont think time manipulation would turn out the way a vindictive person would want. im sure it would be a great deal of work, and the lust for power would deteriorate from the interests of the common man. by the time you got what you wanted youd know the entire history of man kind, youd know what is a part of your timeline and whats a part of others. thats not for the weak hearted.

personally i wouldnt worry about it if i was in control of the system, if some idiot wants to get lost in time thats his folly not mine.

We may call it official now: we are entering a brand new era... a new cold war is building up... in new fashion... rapidly… yes:

JT: “The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over.”

Suddenly there is that new sign of change… that Russia will no longer acquiesce in a Pax Americana (or as Titor called it.. the ‘American Federal Empire’)…. Perhaps one of the other reasons for Titor’s remark:

JT: “On my worldline, we are no longer afraid of the ‘NWO’. Are you afraid of Nazis?”

The Russians seem to have an entire different perspective of that word... “NEW”….
A NEW Russian foreign policy makes it clear that Moscow believes the era of American hegemony is now over…. a NEW self-assuredness.. a NEW determination of Russia NOT to be absorbed by the West....

Putin stated openly that though Russia "shares common world and common European values"… it has no intention whatsoever of “either joining the EU or establishing any form of institutional association with it." Apparently Russia wants its own NEW political hegemony… ofcourse… we could have seen that one coming as well…

And now that Russia is going to aim its NEW missiles on Europe… it will undoubtedly destabilize the West even more…

I believe it’s all very bad new news… to be taken very seriously… Titor’s world approaching our reality with the speed of light now….

Edit:

[edit on 6-6-2007 by Roth Joint]

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Let me see... denying the news that Russia is going to aim its missiles on Europe....

You didn't even read my post did you?
I NEVER once stated or even hinted that they weren't. You like making **** up Roth....

Riiiiight. So Russia is a joke to you eh?

Short answer is yes.

And Russia will NOT aim its missiles on Europe if the US continues its foreign policy right?.... lol.

Did I say that? No I didn't.
They've had missiles aimed at US for decades as we've had missiles aimed at them. This is nothing new. If they want to aim them at Europe now, then well...that's what they want to do. But that doesn't change ANYTHING.
Honestly Roth, do you know anything about the history of this world? Have you been living under a rock or something? (do you really think the cold war just ended like that? lol You need to do some serious catching up buddy)

You must be utterly blind to keep on denying Russia flexing its muscles.....

What are you talking about? I'm the one who stated that Russia is flexing it's "muscle!"

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Riiiiight. So Russia is a joke to you eh?

Short answer is yes.

I believe it’s very appropriate to quote Titor’s words here: “I would caution against that. That's exactly what "they" want you to think while they continue to develop smaller and more accurate MIRV's. Have you ever seen a neutron bomb the size of a basketball?”

‘NEW’ is the keyword here….

I believe it’s not so long ago Vitchilo presented to you some very interesting links you apparently haven’t read (yet). Here’s one of them:

www.spacewar.com...
Russia To Upgrade Topol-M ICBMs To Counter Defense
May 08, 2007
Russia's strategic missile forces will equip the Topol-M missile system with multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles (MIRV) in the next two or three years, the commander said Monday. Gen. Nikolai Solovtsov said the new system will help penetrate missile defenses more effectively.

Solovtsov said the Strategic Missile Forces would consider the new threats in their deployment plans. "If the U.S. proceeds with the air shield expansion plans, despite serious opposition from people in Europe, the Strategic Missile Forces will manage to take adequate measures to counter threats that may face Russia," the commander said.

And here’s yet another very interesting article:

www.timesonline.co.uk...
It’s the West that’s starting this new Cold War
Russia’s belligerence is hardly surprising
June 7, 2007
Know your enemy….
Casting Russia as the enemy suits everyone at this year’s summit. It distracts attention from President Bush’s contempt for Europeans on climate change and his geopolitical blunders. It helps Angela Merkel and Tony Blair to disguise the failure of their Atlanticist diplomacy while allowing Nicolas Sarkozy to sound tough, without being antiAmerican. It gives all the European leaders at the summit a chance to “show solidarity” with the EU’s newly admitted Eastern members without making any concessions on the discriminatory economic and labour policies that will keep these countries firmly in their place for decades ahead. And best of all, from every nation’s standpoint, the starring role of villain is one that President Putin himself craves.

Why is hostility to the West so popular in Russia? Let us try to look at the West through Russian eyes. Despite all the past sentimental rhetoric of Western politicians describing Russia as a friend and “strategic partner”, US and European behaviour has consistently treated Russia more as an enemy than an ally. Russia has been told it could never join Nato or the EU and Mr Putin’s invitation to G8 summits is scant consolation for the denial of WTO membership and the continuation of US trade sanctions dating back to the Cold War. On human rights and extrajudicial assassinations, Russia’s record may be deplorable, but its abuses pale in comparison with those of Western friends such as Saudi Arabia and China, not to mention President Bush’s “boil them in oil” ally, Uzbekistan.

But far more serious from the Russian standpoint than any diplomatic conflicts is what the West has done to their country’s territorial integrity. Ever since the first Bush Administration undermined Mikhail Gorbachev by denying him the financial assistance of the International Monetary Fund and then encouraged the dissolution of the Soviet Union under Boris Yeltsin, the West has appeared, at least from Moscow’s standpoint, to seize every opportunity to weaken, isolate and encircle Russia.

Western politicians may ridicule such fantasies as Russian nationalist paranoia. But why shouldn’t the Russians worry about Western armies and missiles on their borders, when these contribute to a process of territorial encroachment similar to what Napoleon and Hitler failed to achieve by cruder means?

America and Europe, regardless of their warm words about Russia, are treating it objectively as an enemy, taking every opportunity to cut it down to size. After 15 years of this experience, is it really surprising if the Russians, emboldened by their newfound oil wealth, now respond in kind? In other words, it is not Russia but America and Europe that have restarted the Cold War.

The West may well be right to treat Russia as a natural enemy – that is certainly the attitude in Estonia and Poland. But if we are going to treat the Russians as enemies, let us at least try to see the world from their point of view.

its seems the Ed Brown case is getting started:/

here a link to a thread thats trying to stay up to date with the events of today.

Police, SWAT Team Surround Ed Brown's Property

this seems pretty bad.

This is definately going to end badly...

also i have another Waco Event that i had completly forgotten about, it happened right before 9-11 and after that day everything else seemed less important...but there was a raid on the Rainbow Hippy Farm that resulted in buildings being burnt down and some people dead.

Law Enforcement at its best!

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
This is definately going to end badly...

Doubt it...
Unless by "badly" you mean him going to jail.

also i have another Waco Event that i had completly forgotten about, it happened right before 9-11 and after that day everything else seemed less important...but there was a raid on the Rainbow Hippy Farm that resulted in buildings being burnt down and some people dead.

Law Enforcement at its best!

Need to do some research buddy.
The only reason police went there is because the two owners (who were the only people killed) started burning some of their buildings. Then started shooting at the news helicopters that were covering the fires.
And with Waco, the Davidians (besides maybe having illegal weapons), weren't really doing anything illegal. These people were....(but even then it was obviously the police left them alone until that incident. Do you think they can have that much drugs and have that large of a complex without the police knowing a little something?)

ThatsJustWeird
Then started shooting at the news helicopters that were covering the fires.

Much like they lied in Waco, they probably lied about shots fired at the helicopter, this allowed law enforcement to call in the FBI under the guise of weapons charges.

ThatsJustWeird

And yeah, SHP is right
Another month gone by!
Still waiting for that list......
Surely after 40 of these events, the secondary and alternative media would have reported on these events by now....

You two are not doing your homework yet? lol... I do recall some paramilitary-police battering in MacArthur Park. Probably could list more, but I'm not doing your homework for you.

Secondary and alternative media lol.... Have you not paid attention to paramilitary-police being glamorized in the "main media" , try something like Dallas SWAT on A&E. Oh! I see Kansas City SWAT coming up next. swat.wav Hey! flip it on TJW, you will probably see some property destroyed or some Flash-Grenade Assaults. I wonder if they will show any these episodes: Woman files complaint after SWAT team raids wrong house

I've lost count, way over 40 events....

Titor:
By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone's doorstep.

Titor:
When the civil "conflict" started and got worse, people generally
decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the
guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas. Our home
was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some
unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city.

Hmmm, what will make it worse TJW?

I really hate to burst your bubble, but there isnt a John Titor...

Its really hard to believe something like this can go on for this long, I mean look at this thread.

Im going to make this brief and unfortunately Im only willing to give so much info out of respect for the person you knew as JT.

This person was a relative by marriage. He was a very smart person and also loved to pull pranks. He was big into Astrology, read almanacs like they were novels and was a History buff. He knew the stock market well and was actually good at predicting alot of changes before they happend. He was good at reading the "signs" for lots of things.

When he pulled the JT hoax he was in his senior year of college. He did it for a couple of reasons. He read a story about a Russian experiment that a few people picked a random door to a factory on the street and stood at the door like they were waiting in line, supposably people saw this and within a couple of hours people started getting in line behind them to wait as well and the line ended up going around the corner. These people did this for no reason other than because they saw the others and thought they better get in line for whatever was so special, never knowing what the line was for. He didnt know if this was a true story or not but it made him curious and he believed that a lot of people do act and think in this way.

To make it more exciting he also made it into a bet as well with a couple of friends and family members, but only a few knew of this. The bet was that he could get "a lot" of people to believe it for a certain amount of time(i believe it was 6months and the bet was for $500).So he got to work on using his skills to create a story that was both crazy and part believable. It took him about a month to get it all together and ran with it. It doesnt really surprise me that some of the things he said are similar or pretty dang close to true either, he just could do that sometimes for several things. Others he just made up to add the crazy parts thinking there is no way anyone would believe those parts. And there you have it, I know he never dreamed it would go on this long for sure.

Im only willing to give this much info, no dates or names at all because this person sadly enough died 2 yrs ago from Diabetes and well I think he wouldnt want people to live the rest of their lives letting this hoax affect how they lived or thought. Some of you are really letting this change the way you act and feel and thats just not right. Im sure some of you will not accept this no matter what is said or done and I will just have to be ok with that as I know I have at least tried to do whats right on setting the record straight.

Originally posted by Wiz4769
I really hate to burst your bubble, but there isnt a John Titor...

Its really hard to believe something like this can go on for this long, I mean look at this thread.

Everybody look, Wiz4769 is the new Messiah! (laugh)

Originally posted by Wiz4769
Im going to make this brief and unfortunately Im only willing to give so much info out of respect for the person you knew as JT.

This person was a relative by marriage. He was a very smart person and also loved to pull pranks. He was big into Astrology, read almanacs like they were novels and was a History buff. He knew the stock market well and was actually good at predicting alot of changes before they happend. He was good at reading the "signs" for lots of things.

Yeah, tell that to the Russians.

Originally posted by Wiz4769
When he pulled the JT hoax he was in his senior year of college. He did it for a couple of reasons. He read a story about a Russian experiment that a few people picked a random door to a factory on the street and stood at the door like they were waiting in line, supposably people saw this and within a couple of hours people started getting in line behind them to wait as well and the line ended up going around the corner. These people did this for no reason other than because they saw the others and thought they better get in line for whatever was so special, never knowing what the line was for. He didnt know if this was a true story or not but it made him curious and he believed that a lot of people do act and think in this way.

I told you before.. stay off of those mushrooms!

Originally posted by Wiz4769
To make it more exciting he also made it into a bet as well with a couple of friends and family members, but only a few knew of this. The bet was that he could get "a lot" of people to believe it for a certain amount of time(i believe it was 6months and the bet was for $500).So he got to work on using his skills to create a story that was both crazy and part believable. It took him about a month to get it all together and ran with it. It doesnt really surprise me that some of the things he said are similar or pretty dang close to true either, he just could do that sometimes for several things. Others he just made up to add the crazy parts thinking there is no way anyone would believe those parts. And there you have it, I know he never dreamed it would go on this long for sure.

You really scare me.. they haven't treated you yet?

Originally posted by Wiz4769
Im only willing to give this much info, no dates or names at all because this person sadly enough died 2 yrs ago from Diabetes and well I think he wouldnt want people to live the rest of their lives letting this hoax affect how they lived or thought. Some of you are really letting this change the way you act and feel and thats just not right. Im sure some of you will not accept this no matter what is said or done and I will just have to be ok with that as I know I have at least tried to do whats right on setting the record straight.

Okay, you've got your 15 minutes of fame. Now please don't do any more drugs and get a life..

Wiz4769
I've often thought the Titor story was something along these lines. I.E a great story/hoax which created far to much hype and just kept growing.

Not sure that your story is true or not but if it is then thats a shame. Anyway be prepared to take a lot of flak for posting it!

Good luck

Sorry to bust your bubble X, but we're talking about Waco type events, not SWAT raids. SWAT raids have been happening since the '60s

And still no civil war! Imagine that....



Roth, I didn't think you'd post the latest on Russia. Russia is now saying that it WON'T aim missiles at Europe and even plans on JOINING in on the missile defense
www.washingtonpost.com...

Try again Roth...

Anybody thought that it especially surprised the Russians something like 9/11 could EVER happen in America? Especially the WTC towers? The America that was spied on so thouroughly by Russian agents?

Hardly surprising the suspicion about US secret prisons in Europe..

Originally posted by Hope_for_reason
Not sure that your story is true or not but if it is then thats a shame. Anyway be prepared to take a lot of flak for posting it!

Only flak from diehard Titorites like Roth who will immediately dismiss everything Wiz wrote because they don't want it to be true...


I don't know if what he said is true or not, but of all the explanations, it makes the most sense....

Wiz, do you really expect us to believe that you have been a member on ATS since December and yet for 6 whole months you didn't post on this subject?

You just lost all credibility with me.

Has anyone ever thought that Titor could have come here but he created diversion greater than he mentioned? First of all, we didn't have y2k; thats a pretty big diversion compared to what he had said of something like 2%.....right?

Anyhow my point really is that he *could* have actually been a time traveler and he may have actually made it to our world line to communicate with us, on a conspiracy forum of all places. But his sheer presence here and from what he had told us created a larger rift of things to come. Him being here may have created a larger gap in the similarities between our time and his.

Personally, its all probably just bunk but I thought I would throw that in there for the sake of it.

[edit on 8-6-2007 by build319]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Roth, I didn't think you'd post the latest on Russia. Russia is now saying that it WON'T aim missiles at Europe and even plans on JOINING in on the missile defense
www.washingtonpost.com...

Try again Roth...

It's sad you can not see through all the tactics... the mind games.... Putin as a problem solver rather than a troublemaker..

Don't be fooled! Russia WILL aim its NEW missiles on Europe (and the US ofcourse)....

Azerbaijan? The question is whether the offer is strategically realistic?!
The US is not likely to share such important elements of its national defense with another country. It's an undeniable great strategic move from Russia. The US can NOT ignore Putin's offer.. BUT.. Washington has already invested a lot in the European project!

The US will still deploy parts of the missile shield in Central Europe and try to combine both projects, that is, in Azerbaijan AND Central Europe. And THAT's where the # will hit the fan!

Eh, why is this thread still alive?

Didn't anyone read the title? "The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor" Uh, what year are we? 2007 dammit. There is no civil war. IMO ATS should close this thread, why allow a hoax to continue?

I'll agree with you humble to a point. I think its fun to see how far someone will go to believe in something. Its like there are two truths in every story. The one truth that you see and the other truth that everyone else sees.