The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

TJW i honestly havent a clue how to respond to your last post. are you agreeing with me? or are you trying to counter argue me??

becuas it appears your agreeing with me but....

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Unbelievable...Wikipedia is reading my mind. I was just about to type something like this but then decided to check wiki, just to see what it says....
Since wiki is...you know...wiki....please follow the actual links

(please don't concentrate on what I'm about to quote, this is just for what we were just talking about)

In other words
1. Mostly sci fi (like I said earlier)
2. Even if it were true, there's no evidence we'd be able to traverse these "worldlines"

the quote is along the same lines as ive written before. but why should i not concentrate on the quote??? are you going to make a point???

your link is to wiki "the opinion center of the internet". and even so, what am i to look in to within the link? its all theoretical from top to bottom?? now thats not a bad thing but im going to need somthing to go on here. are you asking me a question?? or are you trying to educate me??


what actual links??(im not going to trial&error every link on that page) did you delete part of our post on accident?? it seems like somthing is missing




-your 1st comment- the reason its mostly portrayed in scifi is because in our timeline its still theory(we dont know if its right or wrong).
-you 2nd comment- there is no evidence becuase we havent developed time travel yet.

to answer swiftly on both your points titor says its real. and he has more insight than any other person in our timeline, becuase hes traveled through time(claims).

honestly tho what were your intentions behind your post???


[edit on 8-1-2007 by Glyph_D]

X and Glyph

Your persistent examples crack me up. Wiki all the open editing that can be done there. I wonder how many times John Titor's wiki has been hacked up by you lol.....

your link is to wiki "the opinion center of the internet".

This is exactly why I said:

Since wiki is...you know...wiki....please follow the actual links

Since wiki has the credibility of....well....you guys, lol
Please follow the links provided to see the actual sources and more credible sites

and even so, what am i to look in to within the link? its all theoretical from top to bottom??

Theories from credible scientists yet you dismiss them and believe someone on the internet claiming to be a time traveller.
Please explain that to me....

honestly tho what were your intentions behind your post???

wtf? Just go back and read.
My post was in response to your claim that the multiworline theories were:
"actually this is the science of the 21st century, string theory , super gravity, and quantum mechanics."
That's very false and doesn't even make sense as the multiworldline theories have nothing to do with that. They were only developed as a way to get rid of the paradoxes time travel would create.

i know what your opinion is of wiki, not to long ago you flamed me for linking it. so yes i know where you stand on wiki. which is actually funny becuase you discredit wiki but yet you double check your logic with it ...very funny

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

honestly tho what were your intentions behind your post???

wtf? Just go back and read.
My post was in response to your claim that the multiworline theories were:
"actually this is the science of the 21st century, string theory , super gravity, and quantum mechanics."
That's very false and doesn't even make sense as the multiworldline theories have nothing to do with that. They were only developed as a way to get rid of the paradoxes time travel would create.

did you read my last post, i know you read part of it becuase you quoted me but did you read the rest

i said im not going to follow every link on that page when i havnt a clue on what the hell point your trying to make.

its not false becuase the variable i was speaking of is in fact a paradox, and if other scientists have come up with this. then this might be truth. and the three categories of science i presented deal(not exclusively) with time and the possibility of travel within it.

Theories from credible scientists yet you dismiss them and believe someone on the internet claiming to be a time traveller.
Please explain that to me....

i knew you were just skimming through thats why i linked insight, so it would be nice and blue(or purple) so it would jump out at you.


i dont give a d*mn about credible this or credible that, its their theory regardless of right or wrong they dont fully understand what they are talking about.

however titor says hes done it, and becuase hes said hes done it. Ive looked into his claims and found that indeed his claims are very possible. i dont care if hes a one legged, one eyed hermit , that has bigotry views of the world. the science he is claiming is valid and as your link has all the info you need to agree with me. whats your point



EDIT: one more thing- isnt this painfully obvious i know more about this subject(time-travel) than you, im not trying to use this as leverage in this debate but plz pay respect where its due.



[edit on 8-1-2007 by Glyph_D]

Originally posted by Glyph_D
i know what your opinion is of wiki, not to long ago you flamed me for linking it. so yes i know where you stand on wiki. which is actually funny becuase you discredit wiki but yet you double check your logic with it ...very funny

Double check my logic?
wtf are you talking about? I wasn't going to use Wiki at all but I know they usually use simpler words. I thought you would understand but it's obvious you still don't.

Not quite surprising...

i said im not going to follow every link on that page when i havnt a clue on what the hell point your trying to make.

Horrible horrible excuse.
Once again, instead of seeking the truth you shun it in favor of pure fiction.
My "point" was simply a response to your statement as I pointed out a couple times now.

however titor says hes done it, and becuase hes said hes done it. Ive looked into his claims and found that indeed his claims are very possible.

lmao!!!
Again, read what real scientist and what real actual people have had to say about Titor.
You only believe it because you're amazingly gullible, not becuase of the science. The science is the easiest part of Titor to debunk.

the science he is claiming is valid and as your link has all the info you need to agree with me. whats your point

wtf??
Read what Titor stated, then read what real scientist say...
Please.
Since you said you haven't read any of the links so I'm positive you haven't seen any real science yet. If you did you could see Titor can easily be debunked scientifically.

EDIT: one more thing- isnt this painfully obvious i know more about this subject(time-travel) than you, im not trying to use this as leverage in this debate but plz pay respect where its due.

This a joke?

(that's a serious question - are you actually being serious here? I want to know if I should laugh with you or at you. If you are being serious, how could you have possibly come to that conclusion?? I haven't even talked about time travel yet. Be patient, that's coming. Still have a few more Titor mistakes to go over first)

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I haven't even talked about time travel yet. Be patient, that's coming.

You haven't even talked about time travel yet. Now remind me why you are here lol...... Oh wait... you have said, Time travel isn't possible

Anyway...

Yeah... yeah, I checked your wiki links, lol... I like how you put it in bold letters.... "sigh" Stephen Hawking...he believed that anything swallowed by a black hole was forever hidden from the outside universe, but now we know he was wrong because Quantum theory kicked his @$$... lol. Hawking has admitted he was wrong, and now the physics community is even more sceptical about him and his theories.... tsk tsk So why should I believe a thing he says?

Hawking is half right though: each time traveler to experience a single self-consistent timeline, so that time travelers remain within their own world rather than traveling to a different one.

Hawking is wrong to say "rather than traveling to a different one."
He is right about "travelers remain within their own world."

If "many-worlds interpretation is correct" you could travel to different world, and still be within your own worldline. That's what Hawking should say..... Maybe Hawking will read this and change his mind again You know some scientists still believe quantum reality only works at the micro level, that train of thought is what kicked Hawking @$$ lol...

That wiki article mentions David Deutsch, I think he is great physicist, at least David wants to mix our best theories together. He is much more interesting than Hawking.


[edit on 9-1-2007 by XPhiles]

X, unlike you, when I make a claim I then back it up. I have not done so extensively on HUMAN timetravel so again, wait...

And I highlighted the portion that we were talking about at the time. As evidenced by the fact I highlighted the WHOLE paragraph and not just Hawking.


Pathetic...

ThatsJustWeird:

I wasn't just talking about Hawking.

Other than Stephen Hawking theories being wrong in the past, I'm not really making any claim, there is no reason for me to back that up, when you can google it yourself.

My goodness lol, your highlighted portion is what I was referring to in my other posts. What you highlighted in bold proves nothing really, It doesn't show that time-travel or many-worlds interpretation is science-fiction? Science has always been used in science-fiction....duh.....

What's so pathetic?

[edit on 9-1-2007 by XPhiles]

What I find most interesting about this entire subject is the topic of worldlines (if I have the wrong term and mixed it up forgive me).

*The idea that there are many different realities on different waves I guess.

On one end it if John's predictions don't come true it's easy to say "oh it must be a variation because of the different worldline" and on the other end we've got things happening that make his story seem to have more merit.

It would be extremely easy for one man to do a prank (not the right word in this context) like this. I can picture a 40-something scientist or physist or whatever realizing humanity is crumbling and thought because our society is so druggedup with fantasy and scifi- that this was the only way he could help... creating a fantasy to motivate people to change the world before it's too late. Most of his topics were painfully obvious to people who are aware, even back when he started posting. This WWIII and NWO stuff has been around for a long time, and if you don't get it by now...

But moving on, what if he's legit? What if he REALLY did come back from computer equipment- what if he thought "what the heck" and posted. I use this analogy a lot- do you think in the 1400's people would think one day you'd have mobile symphonies in your pocket and be able to take it with you? The answer is no. Today Ipods are everywhere. Heck... 1950 and people would probably be skeptical.

The point is that you can't simply rule it out. And time traveller or not, John was right about what he says will happen.

Originally posted by jaguarmike
But moving on, what if he's legit? What if he REALLY did come back from computer equipment- what if he thought "what the heck" and posted. I use this analogy a lot- do you think in the 1400's people would think one day you'd have mobile symphonies in your pocket and be able to take it with you? The answer is no. Today Ipods are everywhere. Heck... 1950 and people would probably be skeptical.

The point is that you can't simply rule it out. And time traveller or not, John was right about what he says will happen.

i totally agree with you. its a perspective of science not predictions that can make or break titors claims.

TJW to this moment i still have no clue what your POINT was/is. you say it was your response, but there is no science in your response.

i did read some of your link at wiki. but that page is huge, where do i start looking to find this debunking science??? im not trying to be difficult, if there is science to debunk titor "great". however if your debunking science is just theory its not enough.(i vote to move away from the wiki dialog)

im not that gullible, whats wrong with considering someone who can not be debunked(undeniably) ??? every piece of debunking material ive read through is biased and not willing to invest hard time into the phenomenon.



ok fine if you havent started talking about human timetravel yet, fine ill be patient. no wait- why the hell are you not talking about human timetravel; we all are??? im interested to see how your science will change.

then we can waste more time while you misinterpret every piece of scientific theory on time and travel within it.


woohoo cant wait(its like christmas eve)



JTW in "titors worldline" titors claims are fact(possible common highschool teachings). in "our worldline" its all theory (most of it isnt taught anywhere). now if "titors worldline" and "our worldline" are indeed connected then we could(we dont have to) take the science from his timeline and bring it to ours. then we could get rid of all theories(good/bad) and have just fact remaining. of course i do not recommend this with out substantial proof first.



[edit on 9-1-2007 by Glyph_D]

Thanks. I think the main problem here where the Scientists and Pyshics Professors etc that attempt to debunk Titor based on it "not being Scientificially possible" or such nonsense is quite simple:

If you can't figure out how to travel in time, of course your Scientific analysis doesn't match up

That really makes me laugh out loud. Scientists being stupid.

The true test is not if his theories come true- because like I said it could have been a very aware creative person who thought this was the only option left to wake up the masses. The true test is if one day we have time travel, and we find ourselves in that situation in the near future.

Unfortunately for John he didn't have much of an understanding on the mind, and how humans work/think/operate. Without ground-breaking proof or a route to follow to change the world, John is just another failed prophet amongst the many. Because of that failure on his part the John Titor story regardless of truth is just that, a story.

[edit on 9-1-2007 by jaguarmike]

Without ground-breaking proof or a route to follow to change the world, John is just another failed prophet amongst the many.

Right...but he cant just give out direct answers the reason being that then everyone will take notice "hey this guy is 100% correct!" so now people especially those in power can manipulate this info in myriads of ways.
He leaves it for interpretation and has thrown in a couple of key dates
(such as 08) which to some could dis-spell him as a hoax and to others opening their eyes. The thing is it does not supposed to make sense...

Since we are in 2007 there are some things to ponder.

If for instance the China Olympics would be held at 2007 instead of 2008 than it would go on without a hitch it would not be canceled. 1 year in my view is not that much to change the "current course of events." (although a disaster such as 9-11 proved that otherwise)

Next is the "launching of the nukes(?)". So lets take John's word for it that Russia, China... and every country gets trigger happy and launches their nukes ok fine but the problem here is that each of those nations have *cough* representative governments..in some shape or form. The leaders like it or not have to represent those who voted for them. The question here is that who/how many decides to launch nukes and for what reason? Do they have a 'death wish' an own agenda? Nuclear weapons are not exactly "clean" weapons...did "they" took that into account?
Correct me if I'm wrong but launching of nukes first has to go through a chain of command there has to be a procedure this in itself could complicate/slow down matters, wouldn't it? Unless everyone is on-it. So where is the responsibility of holding onto this much power? Presidents will be no more presidents thus loosing their power, people foaming at the mouth running around killing everything that moves, it will be just like the movie 'mad-max'...fun times . If this possible scenario takes place than it means that the people are going to be somehow back stabbed.











[edit on 9-1-2007 by Firestorm]

Originally posted by Firestorm
Right...but he cant just give out direct answers the reason being that then everyone will take notice "hey this guy is 100% correct!" so now people especially those in power can manipulate this info in myriads of ways.
He leaves it for interpretation and has thrown in a couple of key dates
(such as 08) which to some could dis-spell him as a hoax and to others opening their eyes. The thing is it does not supposed to make sense...

right, titor suggested that the civil war is a good thing for the ppl. if he laid out a plan to stop it, and ppl followed it that would mean disaster for the ppl.


personally i want a civil war to come(tho i dont want that many ppl dieing). becuase i dont want "realID", "mandatory vaccinations" , "Super-highway", or the "constitution" and "bill of rights" become just a piece of paper.

this govt has messed this country up and i dont want to live through their future.

I doubt if the elites would create a nuclear war that would demolish living area to such an extent that there isn't freedom to travel- in other words it'll probably be in small areas. I don't think you have to worry about an apoloclypse scenario quite yet. Remember, they want to rule- and if no one is alive to rule and there is nothing to rule, then they aren't rulers anymore. They are crazy, horrible, suppressive, etc... but they aren't doomsday scenario. Remember, you put one of these elites in a high-powered dinner party or function and they own the floor- they "appear" to be rational.

Sort of like if Hitler had a repeat you'd either love him or hate him if you met him depending on the mood you were in. Not to make any comparisons- but hypothetically what if you were bitten by a spider and got an infection and went through serious pain- and Hitler went off on how "all spiders should be dead, they're worthless" and you agreed and thought "hell yeah!". He's playing you. Or let's say you own a bunch of spiders and study them, and you overhear the convo in disgust. It's all subjective. Anyway enough of my rant...

On to the actual process of change:

I just want to free people so they can see through walls (figurative... but not really) so they can actively change through non-violence and truly make an impact never before seen.

Hence why the first link on my signature is the way it is.

People need to wake up very quickly that:

A) Life is bigger than they originally thought.

B) They can make a difference.

C) They will succeed.


*You do that through education (and no, not K-12 and college) and not taking no for an answer imo.

[edit on 10-1-2007 by jaguarmike]

Originally posted by Glyph_D
ok fine if you havent started talking about human timetravel yet, fine ill be patient. no wait- why the hell are you not talking about human timetravel; we all are???

Because this is a thread about his prediction of Civil War. You all started to talk about this I guess as an excuse to not answer my questions.
Though not on topic I'll still address it later though....

Firestorm:

He leaves it for interpretation and has thrown in a couple of key dates
(such as 08) which to some could dis-spell him as a hoax and to others opening their eyes.

Here's a key date: 2004
That's when the war was supposed to start. Simple question, maybe you can answer - the Titorites still haven't answered - Has the civil war started? It's 2007 now. Is this war three years old?

Another key date: 2005
That's when western stability was supposed to collapse.
Another simple question - name ONE western country where stability has collapsed

Other key events: The monthly Waco type events that steadily get worse. There should be 36 by now, but if you could name the first 12 that'd be fine.

Next is the "launching of the nukes(?)". So lets take John's word for it that Russia, China... and every country gets trigger happy and launches their nukes

It's just Russia launching nukes against the world. Everyone just retaliates. Titor never explains why Russia would do something like that knowing good and well most Russians would die as a result. But apparently according to Titor the radioactive wasteland that was formally Russia is now the U.S.'s largest trader....in radioactive rocks I guess.....

Glyph again:

personally i want a civil war to come

We all know you do. That's the only reason why you believe Titor.

becuase i dont want "realID", "mandatory vaccinations" , "Super-highway", or the "constitution" and "bill of rights" become just a piece of paper.

lol
Trust me, if a civil war were to break out, things would get SO much worse than they are now. Someone would have to be a fool to think a civil war would solve problems Fortunatly, that's no one in this thread I hope.
Just curious: You're complaining about mandatory vaccinations? You do realize for the past 50 years or so there have been mandatory vaccinations (you can't go to school without them) and it has almost completely wiped out some diseases. What exactly are you saying here?




More from Titor:
His cars -
1. He has a '67 Chevy. In 2036. So this car survives 70 years through a civil war and a nuclear war.

2. He says he sold that car when he got to 2000. Problem is....you can't just sell a car. You have to have the proper paperwork. So he has to convince whoever that all his 2036 paperwork is legit. Also since he went back, there are now two cars with the same registration right? So he has to also convince whoever that the two cars are really the same.

3. Ok, say he sold it to some random person on the street (even then I'm sure they would ask for proper paperwork). How much money do you think he'd get for it? Remember he came here with no money at all. So a 70 year vehicle that's been through a civil war a nuclear war and would probably have what? 200,000+ miles. Yeah, you're not going to get that much money, I can guarentee you that. Yet somehow, with no money, he's able to buy another car.

4. You just don't buy a car without the things like a valid driver's license. So again, he has to convince whoever that his 2036 driver's license is valid.

5. Can't forget the time machine in the car! And what's this? Oh yeah, the shotgun. So....after selling his car, he has to drag a 500 lb "distortion unit" around with a shotgun looking for another car to buy. Yeah that's not going to draw attention

(6. And remember the U.S. has been through a 11 year civil war and then a nuclear war on top of that. Now, the landscape - development - changes even without all that! So I'm positive where ever he is in 2036 is completely different now. So when the car just appeared in this time and in 1975, you're telling me this didn't draw any attention???)

HAHHA TJW.

1): It's very possible, it's even 100X more likely than be killed by a terrorist attack.

2): Yeah right, and I suppose from your views, it's impossible to sell without the data? In the real world, you'll always find people to buy cars without a license.

3): Completly stupid. How do you think a Cuban would sell his 60s car in the USA? Over 200,000 $ even if it has more than 400,000 km? That's what I thought.

4): Yeah right, and his family can't buy a car for him right and he can't drive without a permit?

5): Do you know anything about mechanics? I've worked in a garage and you have tools for that.

As I'll remind you TJW, the nuclear war is in the cities, not in the country.
TJW, more non-sens spin to fit your unrealistics views of the world.

And jaguarmike, it's Russia who launch a nuclear war against the NWO in the cities, so I would assume that the leadership in Russia in 2015 isn't in the NWO...

[edit on 10-1-2007 by Vitchilo]

This is my first time addressing you vit in a while.
I told you before why....

You continue to just embarrass yourself and I feel bad for you. I don't want to make you look worse than you are already making yourself look.....

So again, if I don't address your posts after this for a while, you know why....

Originally posted by Vitchilo
HAHHA TJW.

1): It's very possible, it's even 100X more likely than be killed by a terrorist attack.

This makes no sense.
You're saying that it's 100x more likely for a car to last 70 years through a civil war and nuclear war than it is for you to be killed by a terrorist attack?
Since both are highly improbable, I'm not sure what you're trying to say

2): Yeah right, and I suppose from your views, it's impossible to sell without the data?

In the real world, you'll always find people to buy cars without a license.

I didn't say anything about a license here. And I addressed if he just sold it to some random person. Only if you know the right people could you get away with selling a car without the proper papers.

3): Completly stupid. How do you think a Cuban would sell his 60s car in the USA? Over 200,000 $ even if it has more than 400,000 km? That's what I thought.

This makes absolutely no sense at all.
Could you please re-word this. In English this time please.

4): Yeah right, and his family can't buy a car for him right and he can't drive without a permit?

Who said his family bought him a car?
And just really think for a second and give an honest answer. If someone came to your house claiming to be your son would you just go and buy him a car?
When he goes back to '75, who's going to buy him a car then? Who's he going to sell the '87 car to? Do you not think a car 10 years ahead of it's time would draw attention and be huge news?

And if he gets stopped for anything what is he going to say? "Oh don't worry officers, I'm just here from the future"
What do you think the police would do?

5): Do you know anything about mechanics? I've worked in a garage and you have tools for that.

Tools for what?
I'm saying, in his search for a car he would have to drag around his 500 pound time machine with his shotgun going place to place trying to find a new car. Do you think no one is going to notice that?

What does this have to do with mechanics?

As I'll remind you TJW, the nuclear war is in the cities, not in the country.

What does this have to do with anything??????

TJW, more non-sens spin to fit your unrealistics views of the world.

WTF?
Nothing I just said showed any of my views of the world. So how could it possibly be unrealistic.
You believe some random person on the internet claiming to be a time traveler and you're calling me unrealistic!?
lmao! Stuff like this is exactly why I haven't been addressing your posts...
Out of all the Titorites I think I feel sorry for you the most. At least the other ones get some stuff right every now and then, but you.....your posts are so horribly incorrect all the time. I'm starting to think you're doing that on purpose because surely it takes an effort to be 100% wrong 100% of the time.....

well the reason the discussion started about timeline correction and the like is becuase vekar was useing it as a point, and i thought it was necessary to correct him. no one is avoiding your questions.

we've answered your 2004-5 civilwar questions many times. and when we do you rapidly alter the conversation; which leads off topic. then once you got us offtopic you complain we're not staying on topic.

others have given many links to waco type events as well, and when we do you rapidly alter the conversation; which leads off topic. then once you got us offtopic you complain we're not staying on topic.


the biggest point to observe is that now(2007) is so different than then(2000). and titors claims are getting the dust brushed off them as more time passes. one should ask is titor real? if not how did he know of the activities we would be involved in this time and date??? was it just dumb luck to be this close in claims??or is it possible for someone to see into the future???

personally i dont go for the seeing into the future scenario(personal belief sorry), when you read titors post you dont get the feeling(from his choice of words and structure of responses) hes claiming futuristic events, you get the distinction hes been through it. if it was dumb luck(cliams of the future) then somwhere he would have made alot of inconsistencies, id think these mistakes would occur in the science department. the third possibility is hes real, this should be the last scenario you come across if you are to objectively look at the titor case.

and finally its the claim that this is a hoax made of a group of ppl. ppl that know science and a handful of very likely events that will occur in the future.

however due to the high 90% accuracy, it should then be determined who is the more likely scenario. the "real titor" or the "group of hoaxers". personally i see titor as the more likly, if your able to consider timetravel as a reality then his story is very basic. if you are to believe the hoaxers are the source, then you/they have got some explaining to do. if it were hoaxers that created the titor story, there are a couple of things id like to see from their notes. what evidence existed then that we would be near a police state now?? and in regards to timetravel what theories were the basis for their device, and procedures.


to me the hoaxer scenario is very unlikely, however it is very possible.

their can only be one truth to this question(the titor question), and either your willing to find that truth or your not.

im willing to find truth, becuase it could be helpful in the future; not just this titor case, but all forms of truth.

as youve(TJW) shown me many times, this pursuit is not a common perspective. you say im naive or gullible but from my POV im just pursuing truth. and youve also shown me that some ppl are not willing to see truth or even consider it. i dont understand that yet but maybe i will when i grow up :/.

its cowardly to deny the truth, and all who suppress the truth should be ashamed of themselves.

***********************************************************

why do you say Vitchilo is embarrassing himself?? in his post he address the negativity in your posts??

1)a car surviving through a civil war is more likely than a terrorist attack. when nukes hit a target it doesnt cuase a chain reaction to destroy other targets, what i mean here is part of the US we be very much safe from nukes, and the proof that not all the US is hit, is the fact- ppl survive the nukes. if nukes were to hit every square mile of land no one/cars would survive.

2)secondly its not hard to sell a car without registration. ive bought and sold cars without registration. so........

3)read line 2)

4) vit is pointing out that some things your not willing to allow(which is foolish at best)

5) actually not many ppl would notice, most ppl dont even look at the inside of vehicles.

As I'll remind you TJW, the nuclear war is in the cities, not in the country.

What does this have to do with anything??????

read line 1)


instead of saying Vit isnt contributing, how about you start contributing. you havent had a solid view point for the last few weeks(because WE destroyed them but hey)





[edit on 10-1-2007 by Glyph_D]

Originally posted by Vitchilo

And jaguarmike, it's Russia who launch a nuclear war against the NWO in the cities, so I would assume that the leadership in Russia in 2015 isn't in the NWO...

[edit on 10-1-2007 by Vitchilo]

Which is why people like you never rise to power nor sit in the boardroom. You aren't thinking outside of the box. It's called a false-flag.

Originally posted by jaguarmike

Originally posted by Vitchilo

And jaguarmike, it's Russia who launch a nuclear war against the NWO in the cities, so I would assume that the leadership in Russia in 2015 isn't in the NWO...

Which is why people like you never rise to power nor sit in the boardroom. You aren't thinking outside of the box. It's called a false-flag.

tho you may be right jaguar(false-flag), but from titors perspective russia is not part of the NWO. now titor could have been duped, this is true but still. from his perspective they(Russia) are with the ppl(US citizens) in the resistance. which is what Vitchilo was saying.

tho you may be right jaguar(false-flag), but from titors perspective russia is not part of the NWO. now titor could have been duped, this is true but still. from his perspective they(Russia) are with the ppl(US citizens) in the resistance. which is what Vitchilo was saying.

Exactly. And jaguarmike, I know what a false-flag is and a lot of other stuff from behind the scenes.