The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

ok this will be the ace in the hole i mentioned earlier, not sure how much it will take but i will try to shorten it up a bit. for those that understand the titor concept this read wont change anything for you. but for those that share the idea- because we dont see violence and destruction clearly means that there is no civil war.i will attempt to rattle your judgement

first i must present the data thats going under scrutiny, the claims that deal with the dates of 2004-2011. everything else will not be needed for this discussion for they deal with other claims and im going to focus on one claim; start of the civil war. tho the claims are few, there is enough to gather a great deal of understanding of what we may expect to ocurr in the near future.

Titor
1.The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015

2.The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over.

3.By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone's doorstep.

4.From the age of 8 to 12(EDIT:2006-2010), we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and National Guard. By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the "cities" and the "country" was well defined.

5.Outright open fighting was common by then and I joined a shotgun infantry unit in 2011.

now my penmenship is pretty bad so bare with me.

titor claims the civil war began in 2004, but he also mentions that open fighting isnt common until the dates of 2006-2011(somewhere in the middle). he never says when open fighting starts but for the sake of the discussion lets propose 2008OF(open fighting)as the date the "fighting" starts. the reason this date is choosen, is due to the claim that 2008 is a significant date when the conflict can not be ignored by pretty much anyone anymore.

i apologize but i must define a few words

Civil War:
1. A war between factions or regions of the same country.
2. A state of hostility or conflict between elements within an organization: “The broadcaster is in the midst of a civil war that has brought it to the brink of a complete management overhaul” (Bill Powell).

to understand this passage we must first understand the term war

War:
1.a. A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties.
b. The period of such conflict.
c. The techniques and procedures of war; military science.
2.a. A condition of active antagonism or contention: a war of words; a price war.
b. A concerted effort or campaign to combat or put an end to something considered injurious: the war against acid rain.

ok now thats dealt with we can move on.

titor was to young to know of this date(2004) on his own, regardless he was a historian of sorts before his travels and would have learned this date through his studies.

if "open fighting" did not occur till 2008OF(at least 2011) why would 2004 be called the start of civil war. from the definitions it would seem open fighting wouldve had to start in 2004 to merit the official date for the start of the civil war. but titor never mentions open fighting taking place until the 2008OF. unless the authors of history used the looser term to define the start of the civil war.

continues.....





[edit on 28-12-2006 by Glyph_D]

it is very possible that the start of the civil war began with conflict between elements within the current govt. much of the 2004 elections i dont remember due to extreme smearing campaign that was going on. however the november elections would be a very easy association with the definition above, which caused a complete switch of power in congress. which was a direct response to the 2004 elections and current administration.


in the year 2008 everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in is no longer real. for such a realization to occur somthing very serious has to happen, somthing so out of place that more likely than not, it would start a civil war(2008OF?).

in the year 2008 incriminating information will be revealed to the public, and will anger millions of citizens, resulting in open fighting(2008OF?). the information that is released (most likely occur during another smearing campaign in the elections of 2008) will reveal to the public that the world they live in is total bullsh*t. the information will also detail when the lies started causing major problem to the common citizen(2004).

this scenario (can be corroborated with the claims of titor) would cause an effect of the historical records to claim 2004 as the true date the civil war starts.



what is known is this conflict doesnt get bad till 2008OF.

so in short 2008 will be very interesting in regard to the life in the US, keep your eyes on the horizon.

"may you live in interesting times"ancient chinese curse


thanks for reading, and sorry for my bad penmanship.





[edit on 28-12-2006 by Glyph_D]

Originally posted by Glyph_D
in the year 2008 incriminating information will be revealed to the public, and will anger millions of citizens, resulting in open fighting(2008OF?). the information that is released (most likely occur during another smearing campaign in the elections of 2008) will reveal to the public that the world they live in is total bullsh*t. the information will also detail when the lies started causing major problem to the common citizen(2004).

THis is becomming an ever more realistic scenario.

A third party pops up on the scene in 2008, and reveals the truth about how the majority of the public are being lied to by highly organized secret societies which are keeping the american public in the dark so that they can be easily controlled and manipulated.

Also revealed will be detailed facts about how both political parties work together to subjegate the american population.

In addition, there will be startling information revealed about who actually controls the federal reserve and how the federal tax and fractional reserve banking system is a complete scam. Also released will be detailed information about how the federal government never had any intentions of ever making good on it's promise to provide social security benifits to an aging population. In fact the governments true intention of defaulting on it's 9 trillion dollar deficit will be revealed.

People will learn how the federal reserve note is not actually backed by anything at all. Not gold, oil or good faith.

Revealed in 2008 will be, since the federal reserve stopped publishing the M3 money report in 2006, the amount of paper money in ciculation is actually unknown and will lead to rampant inflation as people realize that thier paper money is just about worthless. The M3 report tells how fast the presses are running.

www.federalreserve.gov...

Once the federal reserve is destablized and the dollar crashes, the bankers, who are attemting to destroy america, will issue the Amero upon the population. Die hard patriots will resist the loss of american sovierenty and there will be bloodshed in the streets.


[edit on 28-12-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Glyph_D quoted

"in the year 2008 everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in is no longer real. for such a realization to occur somthing very serious has to happen, somthing so out of place that more likely than not, it would start a civil war(2008OF?)."

are we speculating and/or educated guessing here on what this potential incident might be? because if we are, I think I know what it could be, that would make the public so enraged that they want the heads of all in congress.

Take this scenario for instance, in the run-up to the 2008 election, a CIA and/or White House Senator reveal documents and proof that implicate Bush Jnr and Senior. and all the Neo-Con hawks, plus members of the Israeli parliament as having organised and funding the events of 911 as a shock and awe to the public so they may get their support in the illegal wars of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Not only this, but the "true" body count in the Iraq conflict is revealed to the public which is ten times higher than what Bush has been saying, and documents reveal how and when bombs and detonators were placed in the twing towers to bring them down with ease.

This will enrage the public, having sons who had died for the false causes preached to them and the public, aswell as the publics loss of rights and freedoms.

The public react on masse, and government declares marshall law to quell the opposition protests and calls in the national guard, some of whom side with the protestors and sporadic shoot-out begin down town and locals/protestors get involved too with govenrment supporters i their gun sights.

As you can imagine, this spirals quickly out of control and as Titor spoke of, the governments are only able to secure the cities where their marshall laws take effect.

does anyone else think this is possible? Yeah, its a big ask for a government whistleblower to risk their life to air accusations and evidence publicly like this but it is not in the realms of impossibility.

I am reading a newspaper here…. John Titor:
The destabilization of the West starting in 2005
Western stability collapses as a result of degrading US foreign policy & consistency:

In chronological order:
2004 - Start of the second Bush term - “Real disruptions in world events begin with the destabilization of the West as a result of degrading US foreign policy and consistency. This becomes apparent around 2004 as civil unrest develops near the next presidential election.” –
2005 – Start of rejection European Constitutional Treaty - “They [ Arabs & Jews ] are not directly involved [ in the US civil war ] but political situations are dependant on Western stability, which collapses in 2005.”
2006 – Start of attacks on Israel and Western support wavering - ”Wavering western support for Israel is what gives Israel's neighbors the confidence to attack.”
2007? – Continued attacks on Israel and Israel using its “last resort” – “The last resort for a defensive Israel and its offensive Arab neighbors is to use weapons of mass destruction. In the grand scheme of things, the war in the Middle East is a part of what's to come, not the cause.”
2008? – Our trusted world seems to be over… - “The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over.”

Titor:
"In a Universe made up of infinite worldliness (superuniverse), everything is possible and has a 100% probability, therefore…no paradoxes."

Glyph_D I wouldn't worry about ThatsJustWeird bullheaded opinion, it's very clear he wants to circumvent the real issues. The useless name calling seems to make the thread less attractive, however that could be one of his intentions. ThatsJustWeird doesn't like Titor's worldline, he refuses to see how it compares to ours. He wants the reader to think Titor's worldline should be exactly like ours, which in reality it shouldn't be. No two worldlines will ever be the same due to the smallest amount of influence, all possibilities should exist in different worldlines right? So therefore I would be cautious to go by dates Titor mentioned, Titor hints this if he stays in our worldline. Though the dates are good for reference.....

ThatsJustWeird would say the opposite is true

Timetravel_0:
"For starters....the fact that I'm here makes it different. I've also noticed little
things like news events that happen at different times, football games won by other
teams...things like that. I would guess the temporal divergence between this world line and
my original is about 1 or 2 percent. Of course, the longer I am here, the larger that
divergence becomes from my point of view."

1 or 2 % is a large divergence for games to be won by other teams! Also notice he said things like news events that happen at different times. It's very possible for all those decisions that we make could lag our worldline from Titor's.

One could see two similar worldlines like two cars, one with 6 passengers and the other with 2 passengers. The two cars are traveling to the same restaurant across town. They arrive together at the same time, but the car with two people empties more quickly so they eat first. The smallest amount of influence makes a difference, certainly true when we procrastinate and make choices. The second longer you delay something, a second longer your worldline could be....

Titor:
"Each individual “moment” or “event” on a world line has infinite possibilities or outcomes."

How long will the American people procrastinate?


[edit on 28-12-2006 by XPhiles]

Originally posted by XPhiles
How long will the American people procrastinate?

Until the realization hits home very hard somewhere in 2007 perhaps?......... remember how fast things developed shortly before the first US civil war.... by 1860, the North and the South had developed into two very different regions.........according to Titor, from 2006 to 2010 the federal police and National Guard will become pretty active in this country.....and by 2010 the division between the "cities" and the "country" was well defined.........

Right on Roth, very insightful.....


www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Looks like someone is keeping an eye on them. It's already here and they have a 50 year plan for it.


www.dot.state.tx.us...




[edit on 28-12-2006 by XPhiles]

Wow!
Almost intelligent discussion? And on topic??
Am I in the right thread???


Before going over that, back up a bit to....

Originally posted by Glyph_D......
yeah thats what i said, by that time the fighting is already common, ill quote my self

he said that between the time his family leaves thier house-and the time he joins the infantry, is the time frame open militia fighting starts to occur(2006-2011).

this quote does not in any way say fighting starts in 2011(one of many points you fail to realise)but its the only dates he gives toward open fighting, so ive compiled them just for you.

Read your quote. You state that 2006-2011 is the time frame open fighting starts to occur.
Titor never stated that.

your dictionary BS needs to stop im right your wrong, ive proven im right period.

Funny. I knew from the start your whole thing was to be right even if it means distorting facts.
Again, if I'm wrong anywhere I'll gladly correct myself. What about that am I wrong on?

or is it just me, plz any one come to my aid becuase this guy has lost his grip. if you havent been following , basically this dousche bag is saying that even tho its in the dictionary its not really a definition, becuase its not the first reference.

You all are talking about me insulting someone?? lol, I have ONLY done so in response to comments like this. A sort of 'when in Rome...' type of thing. If this thread had actual intelligent conversations in it, then that's what you'll get.
But this person.... he can't even spell bad names right, lol. How pathetic you have to resort to such a low level. Can't keep up with the big guys huh?

Anyway, that's NOT what I said. I in no way even hinted at that. Read my posts again.

seriously Roth, Xphiles, Vitchilo, TigerKing, and a few others(sorry for the lack of reffrence if your one) have been doing just that, and i refuse to quote what weve already stated many times over. you need to go back and read our claims. and quit saying we havent showed any, becuase its the reason most have posted(showing claims).

No, most have posted stuff based on their own gut feelings and their own views.
We have a thread for that over in BTS. This thread here is about Titor and his claims.
Making predictions of an economic collapse based on a gut feeling or saying Americans will start killing each other over tasers does not belong in a Titor thread....

ive mentioned my age once before, but i quess you just skimmed over my post as ive come to expect. im not 15 nor 16.......I WANT YOUR AGE NOW either your 15 or your 93 and have lost your damn mind.

All you said was you're not 15. Yeah, like I'm going to believe you...
I'm begining to think you're younger than that based on these horrible "insults"
My age? lol
Old enough to be working on yet another degree.....


Alright......

1st thing for all you Titorites:

The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.

What does this mean?
Is this occuring?
It's been 48 months since the start of 2004. 36 months since the start of 2005. So either way, it's been a while...
Let's say the first event started as a taser event.
36-48 months later with the events progressively getting worse....where should we be up to now?

THis is becomming an ever more realistic scenario.

A third party pops up on the scene in 2008, and reveals the truth about how the majority of the public are being lied to by highly organized secret societies which are keeping the american public in the dark so that they can be easily controlled and manipulated.

Not going to happen....
Sorry to be so definate, but let's look at things realistically. Certainly no political party would ever do that as political parties need to have the public controlled. So who else would do that?
Who would even have the knowledge of all that? They're called secret societies for a reason. And if these people have as much power as people claim they have then any member about to reveal anything that would compromise them would be dead before he could speak the first word. And if he does happen to speak, his integrity and credibility would be questioned to no end. He would have to have a TON of evidence to convince the masses. And if he managed to do that....who's to guarentee the masses would even care!?

Take this scenario for instance, in the run-up to the 2008 election, a CIA and/or White House Senator reveal documents and proof that implicate Bush Jnr and Senior. and all the Neo-Con hawks, plus members of the Israeli parliament as having organised and funding the events of 911 as a shock and awe to the public so they may get their support in the illegal wars of Afghanistan and Iraq.

I don't see this happening either....certainly not in 2008.
We don't even know everything that happened with the Kennedy assasination. And that was 40 years ago!
The CIA certainly wouldn't reveal anything like that anyway (and there's no such thing as a White House senator....). Not for a few decades at least.

I don't see a civil war breaking out from that either. Worse case scenario there's huge protests calling for the people involved to be arrested. Look at all the polls out. Every already knows the Iraq war is a sham. You don't see people killing each other though....

2005 – Start of rejection European Constitutional Treaty - “They [ Arabs & Jews ] are not directly involved [ in the US civil war ] but political situations are dependant on Western stability, which collapses in 2005.”

How is this an indication western stability has collapsed?
1. It's not like they just tossed it. They're still looking for ways to revise it and/or just create a new one.
2. Each country still has their own constitution. So even if nothing happens to that one....absolutely nothing changes.

*sigh*
x had to take us back a bit...

The useless name calling seems to make the thread less attractive, however that could be one of his intentions.

Come again?
Who's doing the name calling???

according to Titor, from 2006 to 2010 the federal police and National Guard will become pretty active in this country.....and by 2010 the division between the "cities" and the "country" was well defined.........

You're responding to X but apparently you didn't read his post.
Remember, the dates don't count, lol
(Titor didn't state that anyway, YOU did. Just twisting Titors words)

It's very possible for all those decisions that we make could lag our worldline from Titor's.

Who said it's a lag?
If opposite teams could win, then who's to say a civil war will happen?

I might add, I was in a hurry on my last post

Just to add:
The Super Highway has short and long range goals. The short end is acquisition of property ‘eminent domains’ that intercede with trade and environmental concerns on the grounds that they are acting as agents of a public authority. In simple terms, they want to steal your land, put as much pavement on the ground in the shortest amount of time before someone does something about it.. Of course the long run is to install control, to regulate new laws and ext. Its all part of the NWO plan for global corporate domination.

The Super Highway could be part of the Titor story, I'm not saying it is, but looks to fit into the picture very well. Especially when you hear what people have to say about it.

Remember earlier this year, ominous silence prevailed with it.

It's all in the open with TxDOT now, It's funny how they float their ideals and goals to the sheep, like "Improve air quality."

ftp.dot.state.tx.us...

* Reduce congestion
* Enhance safety
* Expand economic opportunity
* Improve air quality
* Increase the value of transportation assets

Yeah Right
They forgot one...
* Civil War

Who said it's a lag?
If opposite teams could win, then who's to say a civil war will happen?

So say if Titor is real and no civil war happens... you still need to worry about Russia What are the chances of two heads up ?

Yes lag...... things like news events that happen at different times.


[edit on 28-12-2006 by XPhiles]

I also doubt any 3rd party would actually get close enough to do or say anything. Sure a group may try, but I doubt they would get very far, the media would stonewall them. None the less, Titor did have a point, in 2004-05 people began to realize more than ever that the government was rouge and not under control by the masses. This lead to increased public "disourse" if you will.
I think the point right now is: WHAT or WHO would kick off a civil war or revolution in the USA? Martial law? Police state gung-ho's into the open more than ever? All the leaders of peace organizations start to dissapear? What?
Then: HOW LONG BEFORE PEOPLE RETALIATE? Those 2 million + foreign troops is a problem, MY OWN STATE HAS A BLOODY GERMAN AIR SQUADRON AND THE BASE IS MOVING TO BRING IN A MINI-AIR FORCE! Let us not forget we also have not only the Germans but who knows how many other militaries in the nation on behalf of the "UN."
Civil war breaks out, who is our allies and who is our enemies? That is the question.

As for a unified North America (hinting at the AMERO) there would be nothing wrong with it if it was made to help all PEOPLE not the ELITE. A federation, unity, or some form of union would not be a bad thing if you kept it in the hands of the people, however at this rate... ugh. The ability to govern oneself is something that would not fade in a TRUE federation, the main body would be responsible for major events and happenings as well as laws such as human rights. On the individual level, leave that up to the state.
In a civil war though, I doubt it would be limited to JUST the USA, it would stretch across Canada AND Mexico since they all have elite tenticles operating in their governments. All 3 would have to "fall" in order for the people to "rise."

After 154 pages of discusing a lot of supositions and hunch I can say that some light has been shed on this thread a few times here and there but the main hints Titor gave us are brought up just to be cluttered again with unimportant info.

Basically the 3 main ideas behind his "SUPOSED" Time travel are:

In his world line OR UNIVERSE time travel has been discovered and used, and the purpose of his trip is getting some code (that has all bases covered).

The second is that the world OR UNIVERSE on wich he lived terrible things had happen and a civil war, a small WW III and also Dont forget that Something really bad happen in 2012 or so and he was very sure about it and he did not say a thing about it....

Lets think about this one over..... Maybe the small changes in the time made the world VERY diferent later on, maybe our universe is more like a precipice, where normal life is longer lived and the the big DUNG hits the fan and all hell breaks loose.

I have been a suspisious onlooker of the Titor saga because some things that I GUESS are quite important, he left out, for example the ALMOST SURE and INEVITABLE pandemic in our worldline, the Iraq invasion and Boston winning the world series (man thats is something anyone would have remembered!)
So maybe our world line is quite different from the titor World line, but WE all know deep inside we are living in extra innings ( 6 billion humans in the world, huge envoronmental issues, global warming, wars and a decaying human rights and freedoms, diseases and to top it off a falling or colapsing monetary system)...so maybe the future will NOT happen exactly as Titor predicted, but the general inertia of the continium/time...is somewhat similar.
Now another part that really has me bafled is the 2012 event he talks about but doesnt give details, maybe is space related so that would happen anyway even if the world is fine or not by then....

The last thing at least for me is encouraging is that even tough the world will endure very dificult times and hardships, by his timeline in 2030 or so the world still keeps going..so there is a FUTURE...
BTW by now we should see the mad cow disease sickness by the thousands, so maybe even big things are diferent in this "universe/world line"

I wont dismiss the Titor advise, but I guess we an entertain some escenarios and be aware that maybe our destiny is diferent...maybe more gradual, or more abrupt but diferent...

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
does anyone else think this is possible? Yeah, its a big ask for a government whistleblower to risk their life to air accusations and evidence publicly like this but it is not in the realms of impossibility.

i do think this i very possible, we need not forget about the ppl on the internet. if/when this info is found it will send shockwaves though the net. the internet is more involved in common ppls lives more than ever and will increase as time passes.(hopefully internet 2 will not be delivered earlier than planned)

Originally posted by Vekar
I think the point right now is: WHAT or WHO would kick off a civil war or revolution in the USA? Martial law? Police state gung-ho's into the open more than ever? All the leaders of peace organizations start to dissapear? What?
Then: HOW LONG BEFORE PEOPLE RETALIATE?......

Civil war breaks out, who is our allies and who is our enemies? That is the question.

yes this is a very pertinent point, ive pondered many times that what if titors information has prevented us from acting appropriately. what if some of us are to start the revolt, but since titors involvement we are now watchers as apposed to doers. who knows what if TJW is to lead us into the revolt but becuase titors claims pissed him off so much it wont happen.(wow deja vu...i feel like ive had this conversation before:puz

these are very serious possibilities, becuase if a civil war does not occur nor ww3 happen. we as citizens will become sheeple in every sense of the word, even more so than now. and those that try to resist will be eliminated. the govt has some nasty plans for us in the coming years. and a civil revolt is the best chance we have in order to stay free(tho i would fight for more freedom than we have now).

in regards to allies versus foe, i say trust only friends and family. i read on ATS somewhere that should a civil war start; police are to side with the citizens(tho the person did not provide a source). none the less if they were to do this its most certainly to gain control of the revolt. and i know many ppl who would allow a police officer leadership as long as they claim they're not their enemy.

in no way am i saying that the police wont legitimately be sided with the citizens , but are you willing to risk it without having substantial proof. my allies need to do more than say they are with me; they will have to prove it.

I believe pending on who the police are will reflect who they side with. I would highly doubt a small town police group that votes bush will side with the revolutionaries. In a civil war we would have some police side with us, and some who do not. Some military will join us, some will not, in short who you truely support and what you TRUELY stand for will shine at that moment. So in a sense a civil war or revolution would be a good thing, it would force people to show their true mantality and what they truely want.
There is a movie that came out: V for Vendetta, ironically there is one part in it that is what could be the "kick off" event. Before any revolution to start there must be a group or area that becomes more wrilled up than others. The government will respond in one way or another, and pending on what kind of responce that is will reflect how soon or how late (if at all) people will revolt. Lets say a cop gets giddy during a large demonstration and kills someone, lets say a child, right there you have grounds for the civil war to begin. Maybe they will assassinate the known leaders of this group or groups. Police state and martial law declared and they try and round up and execute people using foreign troops, who knows.

Here is one fact: The bible belt and the bible thumpers will side with the govnment, they are the core contingency that supports the government right now. States like Utah, Idaho, Missippi, Alabama, North Carolina, South Carolina, Louisiana, and others will go gung-ho government along with others in that small part of the USA. However, within those areas, there will be other divisions, I doubt people in NO will side with the government. So what will be faced is a nation divided by states, then divided WITHIN the state into small or large enclaves. Those states who support the government (60% or more of the population within the state) will try and launch genocide against the smaller number who do not within the state. Either by allowing martial law to kill them or directly murdering people themselves. I think we have all seen how fanatical bible belt people can get.
A civil war though would be bloody when it came to taking the bible belt, since most are die hard/hard core bush supporters it would be a "kill every last person you see" and make sure to take the children away and teach them that bible thumping is not a good thing. The only way to finish off the bible belt would be to do so, for them ignorance is strength, war is peace and freedom is slavery. Take their children and babies, then burn the place down should they rise up against you. Do not worry, they will be trying to do the same to YOU should you be against them, and they will probably do far worse than what I just said. Other than that it is a matter of wiping out their moral, no moral, they will not fight.
Then we have the problem of a VERY hostile China now that we have stopped importing their garbage... Europe will snatch up all assets overseas and strengthen themselves so they can beat up on poor nations, the UK will be isolated as all getout. South America will kick out the dictators since they have lost their foreign support, same as other nations all around the world.

Here is a quote by Che Gueverra that explains our situation right now and forever:
"I envy you people of America, for you shall fight the most important fight of all, you live in the belly of the beast."

Everything started here one way or another, and it can ONLY end here, it will never end somewhere else. We live in the nation where these corporations started, and where they still nest. No one else can cross the seas in enough numbers to stop them, but we are already here, and we have millions if not a google-plex of quarrels with these corporations. Let Americans do a favor for the world, and get rid of them.

The current date for something happening, or it may not is 2008 since those are the next "election" dates.

ok so John Titor described the world as we know it as a tree. Maybe a civil war didnt happen because 9-11 did.

Originally posted by SAGEX89
ok so John Titor described the world as we know it as a tree. Maybe a civil war didnt happen because 9-11 did.

this is possible as well, it is known that the US govt has been studying the titor claims extensively. suppose they found his claims to be true and have set measures to prevent the outcomes. by staging 911, and CONcocting a war that would pass through the dates titor said were significant.

but i have confidence that what ever caused the civil war in titors timeline will also cuase one in ours. the govt doesnt work on a schedule like normal ppl do, they make plans 10-20 and sometimes 50 years in advanced(maybe even further). so what ever plan it is; its already been set into motion, long before titor came makeing his cliams. the only thing the govt can do now is alter their plans and try to usurp the ppl and compensate for titors claims.

however this theory is base on a civil war starting over evidence rather than action.

Here is one thing that must be asked: Who was Titor siding with in the future should his claim be correct? Did he support the federal or the revolutionaries? I did not read the book, yet it is a fair question, maybe he is trying to keep things as they are because he supports what the government shall become...
The following is based on the assumption that some of what he said is true:
One thing that has not changed though: The people of the world and of this nation (USA) are getting more aggitated as time goes along. Maybe he set things back by a few years but has not changed the long term effects. Maybe he failed altogether, we will not know untill about 2010 or sooner. The fact the government is rushing its police state and martial law settup into position shows maybe they know they CANNOT prevent it from happening, but maybe they can be ready for it when it does happen. Either way, they (the government) will be in a position to wipe out those who oppose them either through a civil war/revolution or by using martial law.
At this point I doubt "evidence" would start a civil war unless the major media broadcasted it, it would go on the individual internet and media level not major. Then we have the problem that people are no longer phased by what is going on in truth, they see it, they know it, it angers them, but it is nothing new now. The only thing that would throw the public COMPLETELY over the edge would be evidence or video comming out showing a concentration camp in full operation with citizens held inside and the camera being shot at. THAT would throw the public over the edge more than likely. With such evidence comming out the fed would have one of two choices: ignore or go gung-ho with it. Should they go gung-ho then martial law is declared and the civil war starts.

Civil war is defined as a conflict between two or more DESIGNATED groups INSIDE of ONE nation. We already have the foundations, the nation is split between support of the fed and those who do not because of their actions and doings.
Remember, 50%+ of the nation DOES NOT VOTE so those "red state blue state" maps are all BULL! A theory I hold is why vote when you know it does not matter at all, voting for one of two evils does NOT wash your hands of blood, it just changes the kind of blood and the faces. That is why I believe most of the nation never votes, they are so used to being ignored they no longer care.

If Titors sole goal was to PREVENT that civil war he talked about, WHAT was the OUTCOME of it? WHO WON? Was it his side or another? Was it a good outcome (longrun) or a bad outcome (longrun)?

It's kinda bizarre to experience how a "prediction" or prophecy starts to make so much more sense when you find yourself in the very midst of it......

Can we say that "Mabus" has just died?...... on one of the holiest dates of the Muslim year...
www.aljazeera.com...

Then we might be very close to the “horrible undoing of people"…..

Titor and Nostradamus shaking hands here?………..

John Titor
"The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over."

Western stability collapsed after May 29, 2005 when both France and The Netherlands rejected the constitutional treaty for Europe in their respective referendums. From there on things got worse. The West is indeed becoming increasingly unstable. The Truth’s Answers:

msnbc.msn.com...
The clash at Hampton Court is a symptom of the crisis gripping Europe.
The economic integration of the Continent's 450 million consumers into a prosperous single market—the EU's raison d'etre since its creation after World War II—has come to a virtual standstill. At the same time, growing numbers of Europeans have awakened to the threat of globalization, with little agreement on how to cope.

On one side are the core economies of the continent: Germany, Italy and France, all stagnating yet determined to preserve their vision of a "social Europe" that protects citizens from too much change. On the other side: Britain and the Scandinavians, who want to meet the challenges of globalization by staying competitive, flexible and attuned to the fast-changing demands of the market.

www.24dash.com...
Concern as UK debt crisis 'spirals out of control'
Published: 22/12/2006 - 10:42:34 AM
Concern that the UK's "debt crisis" was spiralling out of control increased in 2006 with a record number of people failing to keep their heads above water. The personal debt mountain is now more than £1.3 trillion whilst for the first time the amount of people going insolvent during the year will top 100,000. And the picture could get worse in 2007 as consumers continue to pay the price of chronic overspending in the first half of this decade, experts predict. Consumers in the UK are now responsible for a third of all unsecured debt in Western Europe, with the typical Brit now owing more than £3,000 - almost double that of his continental cousin.
"People will still continue to overspend. County Court Judgements will continue to rise, bankruptcies and IVAs will continue to rise, repossessions will continue to rise. We will still have increasing number of people in debt even if nothing nasty happens. "If something nasty does happen, all bets are off." A housing crash, a flurry of interest rate rises or an economic slump could spark a deepening of the crisis. "This year the problem became more visible. The problem is out in the open and people are talking about it more. It is almost like an alcoholic admitting he has a problem - part of the solution is admitting you have a problem."

www.goethe.de...
Germany's EU Presidency Dominated by the Constitutional Crisis
High expectations at a time of deep uncertainty and lack of direction.
December 2006
The German Presidency of the Council of the European Union comes at a difficult time. With the EU in deep crisis, the continent's expectations of Germany are running high. Angela Merkel's government has adopted a broad-based work programme for its EU Presidency. Ultimately, however, the benchmark of its success is whether it will manage to revive the EU's stalled constitutional process.
It was the failure of the constitutional referenda in France and the Netherlands last year which plunged the EU into crisis – but this was merely the symptom, not the cause, of Europe's current malaise. The fact is that the EU is suffering from profound uncertainty and lack of direction, and is seeking to justify its existence and determine its limits. Europe's economic problems, the recent and most ambitious round of enlargement and, not least, the debate about Turkey's accession are major concerns for many EU citizens. They feel increasingly divorced from the European project – a good indication that the integration policy consensus of previous decades is no longer holding up.
On the contrary, Europe faces a massive crisis of confidence and purpose. Of course, the German Presidency cannot overcome this crisis within just six months – but the European public is expecting Berlin, at the very least, to chart a way out of Europe's depression.

www.aei.org...
Italy in Crisis
Publication Date: December 18, 2006
Italy’s economy is among the most sluggish in Europe. Spain, formerly a poor nation on Europe’s Southern periphery, is set to surpass Italy’s GDP per capita by 2009 at the latest. As early as 2004, Martin Larch noted that “Within the EU, Italy ranks second last in terms of average real GDP growth [from 1992 through 2003] outperforming only Germany.”

Italy’s average rate of growth during that period was 1.4%, compared to more than 3% for the U.S. and more than 2% for the EU as a whole. Since 2004, things have not gotten better. Unemployment currently stands at around 7% [L’Espresso--Italian text], and this year’s deficit stands at 4.8 percent of GDP, much higher than the 3 percent permitted by the EU’s Stability Pact. Moreover, Italy’s national debt now stands at a remarkably high 108% of GDP, even as labor unions continue to veto proposals that could lead to more economic vitality. To put it plainly, Italy is in trouble.

www.nzherald.co.nz...
Catherine Field: French high life is heading for a fall
Thursday December 28, 2006
France is running a record trade deficit of around $5 billion each month, and one in 12 of the French workforce has no job. Within a quarter century, the economy could be bankrupted by a pensions crisis. Today, its welfare system costs a record $2 billion every month more than it receives in contributions. Any trip to the doctor results in a prescription for at least three or four drugs - "anything less and you get accused by the patient of not doing enough," says a physician. But even the slightest attempts at health-service reform, such as the introduction of generic drugs rather than brands or scaling back subsidies for treatment at spa resorts, meet with howls of dismay.

National competitiveness in key sectors is melting like icecream in the sun, driven by low investment, the high exchange rate of the euro and sky-high employment charges. Hardly a week goes by without news of a company that is shifting its textile base to China, its car-parts production to Eastern Europe, its call service to Morocco. "Made in France" is becoming such a rarity that Finance Minister Thierry Breton has proposed a new label, "Designed in France," which at least would reflect French input in a product. So what will happen? France's traditional flaw is that it resolves its problems through clash and crisis rather than forethought and consensus, and this time is unlikely to be any different. So, for next year at least, the status quo will remain. At some point, though, the gravy train will hit the buffers - and the sight will not be pleasant.

author.heritage.org...
Is the E.U. America's Friend or Foe?
December 22, 2006
It was taken for granted that the emerging European Union would share America's core values. The reality is quite different. As this hugely ambitious but flawed project has taken shape, policy differences between Europe and the U.S. have both multiplied and deepened. Recent differences between the E.U. and the U.S. include those over Iraq, Palestine, Iran, ballistic missile defense, the international criminal court, genetically modified crops, the Kyoto accords, farm support, China, Taiwan, Cuba, the death penalty, as well as a whole raft of trade issues. Indeed, we have now reached the point where E.U. policy gives every impression of having been defined in opposition to U.S. policy and where it is abundantly clear that the European aspiration is to be a rival, not a partner. The political nature of the E.U.—which was sold to the British public as a strictly limited commercial undertaking—raises important questions about the long-term stability of this new political entity, as well as about the future relations between the E.U. and the U.S. In its top-down way Europe may have created many of the attributes of a state, but there is, of course, no such thing as a European people or European nation.

There is consequently no such thing as European public opinion or a European public space, or a European demos. And if people do not feel common bonds of allegiance and obligation, and if this problem is compounded by the lack of a common language in which political discourse can take place, there is the ever-present danger that they will not accept majority decisions.It is perhaps too soon to make a final judgment about whether the introduction of the euro has failed in its central aim of creating political unity, or whether it has led to heightened tensions as members blame one another for the eurozone's dismal performance. The record to date, however, strongly suggests the latter. For example, for several years articles blaming Germany for holding back any economic recovery were a staple ingredient of the newspapers in all of the 12 eurozone members, while German economic commentators customarily attributed their country's prolonged economic stagnation to loss of control over interest rates to the European Central Bank, a view which is shared by, among others, Professor Milton Friedman. Among the research staffs of international banks and think tanks there is now regular discussion about whether Italy or Spain will the first to quit the euro in order to retain control of a key economic variable as the first step in overcoming deeply rooted economic problems.

Not surprisingly, while the U.S. economy dragged the world economy out of recession, the eurozone tugged in the other direction. Such are the huge disparities in economic, technological, and military power that the ambition to create a unitary European state as a countervailing force to the United States is doomed to abject failure. Nevertheless, its pursuit continues—to the detriment of the economic and security interests of both North Americans and Europeans. The attempt to create an independent and integrated European defense capability—or what the French refer to as Defense Europe—has some extremely serious implications for the United States. Defense procurement is more and more coming under that 2004 creation, the European Defense Agency.

Its objective is not to open up an E.U.-wide market in procurement but rather to provide another building block in the creation of a unitary European state. The result can only be to destroy the special relationship that exists between Britain and the U.S. While America begins to ponder the wisdom of its support for the E.U., the choices facing Britain are more urgent and acute. For decades it was possible for many to believe that, as long as the country positioned itself more or less mid-way between Europe and America in terms of public philosophy and economic outlook, minor adjustments could be made according to circumstance and all would be well. It is now obvious that the innately anti-American and anti-democratic character of the E.U. mean that, in as far as it was ever viable, that option is no longer available. For Britain, therefore, the lesson ought to be clear. The more it is absorbed into the European project, the more it will distance itself not only from its most powerful and most constant ally, the United States, but also from self-government and the economic successes for which it is qualified by history and culture.

www.ft.com...
Europe’s VAT crisis
Published: December 13 2006 21:24 | Last updated: December 13 2006 21:24
Value added tax has been one of Europe's most successful inventions, spreading to more than 130 countries over the last 50 years. So it is all the more galling that Europe's own VAT system has descended to a state of crisis.

Fraud and other VAT abuses are now robbing European governments of one euro out of every ten.EU governments are under particular attack from scams that exploit the absence of borders controls and the tax-free status of cross-border trade. This fraud – known as “missing trader” or “carousel” fraud – is responsible for the theft of billions of euros ever year.

www.ft.com...
Europe is losing faith in its most successful policy
Published: December 12 2006 18:59 | Last updated: December 12 2006 18:59
The debate will raise questions about what it means to be European and whether the EU can carry on growing without grinding to a halt or further alienating its citizens. The outcome and tone of the talks will have hard-edged consequences: is it going to become even tougher for candidates to join the club? Senior EU officials say this is a dangerous moment. A Eurobarometer poll this year found that only 45 per cent of EU citizens want to see other countries join, a proportion that falls to less than one in three in France, Germany, Luxembourg and Austria.Concerns about the pace of enlargement were cited by both French and Dutch voters as reasons for their rejection of the EU’s proposed constitutional treaty in 2005.

Turkey’s prospects for EU membership have been acknowledged since 1963, in spite of the vast majority of its land mass being in Asia. Cyprus was admitted in 2004, in spite of its being only 150 miles from Syria and 500 miles from the European continent. That position is seen as “ironic” in Brussels, where officials argue it was French President Jacques Chirac himself who put the process on autopilot when he insisted that Bulgaria and Romania should be guaranteed entry by 2008 at the latest, regardless of whether they were ready, so that the two, both linguistic affiliates, could inject a dose of Francophonie into the latest expansion.Dutch officials meanwhile say that although Europe has a strategic interest in extending membership into unstable regions, that has to be balanced against the risk of enlargement creating instability inside the Union. That could take the form of a breakdown in integration or the rise of xenophobic political parties in the west.

"The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over."

Hi,

A very strange story indeed. I do not know what I can think exactly about these Titor's claims.

But now, hoax or not, I am wondering what to do in a real case of nuclear war. Yes, first I can buy a "NukAlert" detector !

Does it exist survival guides for example ? I would be very interested.